Re: EFA calculation - is this right?

[Guest guest]

That's a very good estimate. Honestly I don't understand the fear of fatty

acid supplements, when no one thinks twice about the pizza party or trip to

burger king. Its very strange. -

[ ] EFA calculation - is this right?

Hi All,

Lately I've corresponded with many parents on the speechville

message board (and private messaging) trying to convince them to try

fish oils. These parents are very skeptical and even scared for

some reason starting their kids on fish oils. One parent agreed

that she would try one junior cap for her 2.5 year old, but said she

would absolutely not go any higher, because the label says for kids

over 5.

I did this calculation, hoping to convince some of them that the

doses would not harm their children. Thought you all might want to

take a look at it. Let me know if you find something wrong with it!

The Merck Manual online says that " infants " should get 3% of their

calories from EFAs. There is nothing specified for children, only 1-

2% for adults, so I'm assuming the 3% applies to children as well.

I also found online that a diet of 1600 calories would be

appropriate for a 2-6 year old. Seems high to me, but that's the

only number I found (but then again, I guess our kids are still

growing, not trying to lose weight like this mother!!). So that

would mean a child should get about 48 calories from EFAs, so 5.33

grams of EFAs per day. An omega 3-6-9 JUNIOR has about 200 mg of

EFAs, so that would mean that a junior capsule is less than 4% of

the RDA of EFAs (an adult capsule has 7.5% of the RDA for kids).

I was not able to find anything specific about the actual amount of

EFAs the typical child gets from his or her diet, but the general

consensus seems to be that children in particular don't get NEARLY

enough. Further complicating things is the fact that our " typical "

kids eat way too much trans fat. So if you make the assumption that

our children need half of their EFAs in supplement form (I have NO

IDEA if this is a good assumption), that would mean they need 6.67

adult capsules, or 13.33 juniors. Of course, most people say it's

near impossible to get too many EFAs!

Does this seem right? What would be a good assumption for real?

I guess another reason I'm interested in this is because I want to

determine a good " maintanence " dose for my kids. It's important to

me that they aren't deficient, even if the apraxia is taken care of.

Kerri

[Guest guest]

I see what you mean about why the fatty acid supplements are fine even in

higher doses. I think I was originally wondering if it was okay, I guess

because what I give my older son (who has no developmental problems, but had

eczema and other food sensitivities) was cod liver oil, and therefore had

vitamin A and D. And I was thinking to start I would just give my 23-month

old some of that, since we had that already, and I wasn't sure at what point

would be too much of those vitamins.

Thanks everyone for all the info,

Sonya

[ ] EFA calculation - is this right?

Hi All,

Lately I've corresponded with many parents on the speechville

message board (and private messaging) trying to convince them to try

fish oils. These parents are very skeptical and even scared for

some reason starting their kids on fish oils. One parent agreed

that she would try one junior cap for her 2.5 year old, but said she

would absolutely not go any higher, because the label says for kids

over 5.

I did this calculation, hoping to convince some of them that the

doses would not harm their children. Thought you all might want to

take a look at it. Let me know if you find something wrong with it!

The Merck Manual online says that " infants " should get 3% of their

calories from EFAs. There is nothing specified for children, only 1-

2% for adults, so I'm assuming the 3% applies to children as well.

I also found online that a diet of 1600 calories would be

appropriate for a 2-6 year old. Seems high to me, but that's the

only number I found (but then again, I guess our kids are still

growing, not trying to lose weight like this mother!!). So that

would mean a child should get about 48 calories from EFAs, so 5.33

grams of EFAs per day. An omega 3-6-9 JUNIOR has about 200 mg of

EFAs, so that would mean that a junior capsule is less than 4% of

the RDA of EFAs (an adult capsule has 7.5% of the RDA for kids).

I was not able to find anything specific about the actual amount of

EFAs the typical child gets from his or her diet, but the general

consensus seems to be that children in particular don't get NEARLY

enough. Further complicating things is the fact that our " typical "

kids eat way too much trans fat. So if you make the assumption that

our children need half of their EFAs in supplement form (I have NO

IDEA if this is a good assumption), that would mean they need 6.67

adult capsules, or 13.33 juniors. Of course, most people say it's

near impossible to get too many EFAs!

Does this seem right? What would be a good assumption for real?

I guess another reason I'm interested in this is because I want to

determine a good " maintanence " dose for my kids. It's important to

me that they aren't deficient, even if the apraxia is taken care of.

Kerri

[Guest guest]

You do need to be careful with the Vit A in cod liver oil, and thus should

not use high doses. Another benefit of EFA/EPA. Also CLO has little EPA,

which is important in the mix. -

[ ] EFA calculation - is this right?

Hi All,

Lately I've corresponded with many parents on the speechville

message board (and private messaging) trying to convince them to try

fish oils. These parents are very skeptical and even scared for

some reason starting their kids on fish oils. One parent agreed

that she would try one junior cap for her 2.5 year old, but said she

would absolutely not go any higher, because the label says for kids

over 5.

I did this calculation, hoping to convince some of them that the

doses would not harm their children. Thought you all might want to

take a look at it. Let me know if you find something wrong with it!

The Merck Manual online says that " infants " should get 3% of their

calories from EFAs. There is nothing specified for children, only 1-

2% for adults, so I'm assuming the 3% applies to children as well.

I also found online that a diet of 1600 calories would be

appropriate for a 2-6 year old. Seems high to me, but that's the

only number I found (but then again, I guess our kids are still

growing, not trying to lose weight like this mother!!). So that

would mean a child should get about 48 calories from EFAs, so 5.33

grams of EFAs per day. An omega 3-6-9 JUNIOR has about 200 mg of

EFAs, so that would mean that a junior capsule is less than 4% of

the RDA of EFAs (an adult capsule has 7.5% of the RDA for kids).

I was not able to find anything specific about the actual amount of

EFAs the typical child gets from his or her diet, but the general

consensus seems to be that children in particular don't get NEARLY

enough. Further complicating things is the fact that our " typical "

kids eat way too much trans fat. So if you make the assumption that

our children need half of their EFAs in supplement form (I have NO

IDEA if this is a good assumption), that would mean they need 6.67

adult capsules, or 13.33 juniors. Of course, most people say it's

near impossible to get too many EFAs!

Does this seem right? What would be a good assumption for real?

I guess another reason I'm interested in this is because I want to

determine a good " maintanence " dose for my kids. It's important to

me that they aren't deficient, even if the apraxia is taken care of.

Kerri

[Guest guest]

is correct in that the cod liver oil is typically higher in

the DHA then the EPA -but in addition even if you use a pure Omega 3

higher in the EPA then the DHA like Coromega -you typically won't

see the surges you find in the same child on an Omega 3/6 formula.

What the ProEFA has that the cod liver oil does not is GLA -or Omega

6, or in this case of ProEFA, borage seed oil. And also it's wise

as points out to note that the cod liver oil naturally

contains the vitamin A while the ProEFA is not made from the liver

of the fish so does not contain vitamin A. Below is an archive on

more:

Regarding your specific question: (and to answer your question

Chris)

ProEFA is an Omega 3 (DHA and higher EPA) formula with a small

amount of Omega 6 (GLA) The Omega 3 in the ProEFA is from fish oil -

not from the liver of the fish -so no vitamin A. Only fish oil made

from the

liver of the fish contain vitamin A.

Children's DHA is cod liver oil which since it's from the liver of

the cod fish, it naturally contains Vitamin A. Cod liver oil only

contains Omega 3 (DHA and EPA) about that point:

" Most of our experience is with one, 1.0 gram capsule of ProEFA

(Complete Omega) that contains 144 mg EPA, 99 mg DHA and 40 mg of

GLA. We know that this combination appeared to work well. There

were some other supplements used but we could not conclude anything

about them. I can only say that both EPA and DHA are important and

GLA appears to have an additional positive effect on speech.

ALA, linoleic and oleic acids in " The Total Omega " contribute very

little to the EPA, DHA, and GLA effect.

I see at least 2 possibilities that you could use if you decide to

make the transition from short-chain omega-3s in plants (flax seed

oil containing alpha-linolenic acid or ALA, C18:2n-3) to the long-

chain mixture of EPA (C20:5n-3) and DHA (C22:6n-3). These are DHA

Jr. (30 mg DHA and 20 mg EPA in a serving unit) and Coromega (350 mg

EPA and 230 mg DHA). Both of these have been anecdotally successful

in the past.

Coromega can be divided in two and taken one half in the morning the

other in the evening. If you choose this mode you will provide your

son with the equivalent EPA+DHA of 2 ProEFA capsules per day without

the GLA.

Flax seed oil or freshly ground flax seeds are an excellent source

of the essential omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid (ALA or LNA) which is

the quintessential parent member of the omega-3 family of essential

fatty acids (EFAs). The body transforms it into EPA and the EPA

into DHA. This transformation is very inefficient (the yield is

about 10%) and is further inhibited by over consumption of omega-6

fatty acids from most vegetable oils or certain disease states.

Therefore, it is advisable to independently consume also ready made

EPA and DHA from good quality fish of from high quality fish oil

supplements. Some recommended intakes are listed on the

Introductory lecture on EFAs that I gave at the First Conference on

Therapy of Verbal Apraxia, July 23-24, 2001, town, NJ. (

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html )

The CHERAB Foundation's positive research results on potential

improvement in speech following EFA supplementation are based

on the use of ProEFA (Complete Omega) and that contains also

another essential fatty acid, GLA which is an omega-6 fatty acid.

The latter appears to be beneficial to children with apraxia. It is

not present in flax seed/flaxseed oil.

None of these materials present with any known side effects or

known toxicity in an otherwise healthy person. Nevertheless, we

advise every user of supplements to use them under medical

supervision. We don't know your child and we cannot provide you

with medical advice.

Sincerely,

Katz, Ph.D. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Kerri, I found this really helpful. I give my 26 mos old one

capsule ProEFA a day (1000 mg I think) and I've been torn about

increasing it. I must admit now that I know is a

pediatrician, I feel better about increasing the dose (no offense

there ; I could tell you knew your stuff but there is

something about getting an okay from an MD that makes me feel better

about supplementing my child--my BABY really).

One thing that still concerns me is the stuff someone posted about

borage oil being associated with seizures. My son has never had any

seizures, so I don't think he's prone to them or anything, but it

still is a very scary thought. I'd love some reassurance on this.

Another concern is the vitamin E. Is there any danger that higher

doses of fish oils could mean too much vitamin E supplement?

Remember the posts about nose bleeds occurring with the fish oil use

and how we were wondering if fish oils encourage bleeding? Well, it

just occurred to me that the last time I had planned surgery (long

time ago) I was told to avoid Vitamin E supplements prior to because

it encourages bleeding (can't remember how, blood thinner maybe?).

So I guess I'm not necessarily worried about too much DHA, et al.

I'm worried about some of the other ingredients in the fish oils.

Also, someone has posted that the amount in one capsule is the same

amount found in a day's supply of infant formula (the kind with DHA

and ARA added). Does this mean fish oils are added to the formula

or do they somehow extract the DHA and ARA from the oils and add

them to the formula?

Thanks to you--or anyone else--for answering these questions, and

thanks for posting this!

Kristi

>

> Hi All,

>

> Lately I've corresponded with many parents on the speechville

> message board (and private messaging) trying to convince them to

try

> fish oils. These parents are very skeptical and even scared for

> some reason starting their kids on fish oils. One parent agreed

> that she would try one junior cap for her 2.5 year old, but said

she

> would absolutely not go any higher, because the label says for

kids

> over 5.

>

> I did this calculation, hoping to convince some of them that the

> doses would not harm their children. Thought you all might want

to

> take a look at it. Let me know if you find something wrong with

it!

>

> The Merck Manual online says that " infants " should get 3% of their

> calories from EFAs. There is nothing specified for children, only

1-

> 2% for adults, so I'm assuming the 3% applies to children as

well.

> I also found online that a diet of 1600 calories would be

> appropriate for a 2-6 year old. Seems high to me, but that's the

> only number I found (but then again, I guess our kids are still

> growing, not trying to lose weight like this mother!!). So that

> would mean a child should get about 48 calories from EFAs, so 5.33

> grams of EFAs per day. An omega 3-6-9 JUNIOR has about 200 mg of

> EFAs, so that would mean that a junior capsule is less than 4% of

> the RDA of EFAs (an adult capsule has 7.5% of the RDA for kids).

>

> I was not able to find anything specific about the actual amount

of

> EFAs the typical child gets from his or her diet, but the general

> consensus seems to be that children in particular don't get NEARLY

> enough. Further complicating things is the fact that

our " typical "

> kids eat way too much trans fat. So if you make the assumption

that

> our children need half of their EFAs in supplement form (I have NO

> IDEA if this is a good assumption), that would mean they need 6.67

> adult capsules, or 13.33 juniors. Of course, most people say it's

> near impossible to get too many EFAs!

>

> Does this seem right? What would be a good assumption for real?

>

> I guess another reason I'm interested in this is because I want to

> determine a good " maintanence " dose for my kids. It's important

to

> me that they aren't deficient, even if the apraxia is taken care

of.

>

> Kerri

>

[Guest guest]

Hey , I actually once had a parent answer me when I asked if

her child was on fish oil " No. We are doing it the natural way with

just speech therapy. " The " natural " way...as if I just asked her if

she had an epidural when she gave birth or something!

When I asked " Do you feed your child pizza ever? " " yes " " What

about french fries or doughnuts? " " yes " " So french fry & doughnut

oil is natural and fish oil is not? What a silly world we live in

huh? You realize that you ARE supplementing with fats -just that

you

chose not to supplement your child with the good essential fatty

acids that are essential to our bodies.. you have chosen instead to

supplement your child with the unhealthy bad fats. The fish oils

happen to provide us today with real natural essential

fatty acids that we as humans used to eat before all the processed

and

saturated fattty foods out there came along "

I also told her that if she was that afraid of FO she can give her

child EFA enriched formula or baby food which the FDA approved for

babies. Then added...or you can just wait a few years till they

start to supplement the unhealthy American diet with EFAs in the

mayonnaise and fast food...then your child will be able to get EFAs

the " natural " way. Guess that's when all that suffer from fear of

fish oil will get it. (healthy that is)

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This is a good point and I had never thought of it this way, but

just to play devil's advocate, I think what scares people is not the

idea of consuming oil found in fish, it's the idea of giving your

child a supplement and exceeding the recommended dose. When I think

of supplements--as in vitamin supplements--I think of something that

is concentrated and isolated from the other nutrients that would

accompany it in food. This means that you could potentially consume

too much of it, and too much of some things--even good things--can

be harmful. For exp, iron is healthful and a necessary nutrient.

Children need it. Without it, they can experience problems such as

anemia, but in supplement form it is also the leading cause of

poisoning deaths for children. You couldn't ever ingest enough iron

to poison yourself from eating iron-rich foods, but you could easily

do so by taking too many supplements. Of course iron supplements

are beneficial and many of us give them to our children, but just

because a little iron is good and just because it's " natural " and

found in foods doesn't mean that more is better or a lot wouldn't be

harmful.

I hope I don't sound argumentative. I'm not trying to be difficult,

I just want to explain my concerns and maybe represent the concerns

of others so you'll see where we're coming from and maybe be better

able to set us straight. I do believe in supplements and have high

hopes for the EFAs, but like all moms I just want to know I'm not

going to hurt my baby. First, do no harm, right? I really WANT the

fish oils to work wonders and I want to give him as much as I safely

can.

Hope this helps. Thanks for indulging me!

Kristi

>

> Hey , I actually once had a parent answer me when I asked

if

> her child was on fish oil " No. We are doing it the natural way

with

> just speech therapy. " The " natural " way...as if I just asked her

if

> she had an epidural when she gave birth or something!

>

> When I asked " Do you feed your child pizza ever? " " yes " " What

> about french fries or doughnuts? " " yes " " So french fry &

doughnut

> oil is natural and fish oil is not? What a silly world we live in

> huh? You realize that you ARE supplementing with fats -just that

> you

> chose not to supplement your child with the good essential fatty

> acids that are essential to our bodies.. you have chosen instead

to

> supplement your child with the unhealthy bad fats. The fish oils

> happen to provide us today with real natural essential

> fatty acids that we as humans used to eat before all the processed

> and

> saturated fattty foods out there came along "

>

> I also told her that if she was that afraid of FO she can give her

> child EFA enriched formula or baby food which the FDA approved for

> babies. Then added...or you can just wait a few years till they

> start to supplement the unhealthy American diet with EFAs in the

> mayonnaise and fast food...then your child will be able to get

EFAs

> the " natural " way. Guess that's when all that suffer from fear of

> fish oil will get it. (healthy that is)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kristi!

Your question is an intelligent one -not argumentative at all. In

fact it's one I've thought of. I can tell you that in one eczema

study that they gave mega high dosages of Omegas and the only two

people who had any side effects... were both on the placebo! If it

wasn't so late I'd search for it. It's in the archives someplace

and I'm sure online someone can find it at PubMed or something.

See that's the thing. I've read about people dying from drinking

too much water, or for getting too much oxygen, but I've never heard

of anyone consuming too much fish oil and dropping dead...or getting

injured. You eat too much oil and you know what happens don't you?

(it's not pretty and I " m not going to say but just imagine for a

second)

Most people don't blot the oil off their pizza -something I've done

for years since I used to model and it was a trick I was taught to

keep thin. Most people have no clue how much oil they consume in a

day! I would guess if you had to put pizza oil from a slice into

capsules -you'd probably get like 6 capsules per slice or more based

on how much oil I typically have to sop up and at times using 2 or 3

papertowels. Try it.

Also my fear of higher dosages left me after reading Dr. Stoll's The

Omega 3 Connection. If you read what Eskimos eat and how much is

used in research (including how much was used in research by Efalex

and EyeQ) the amounts we use here are minuscule. Also most don't

know this...I now do. Companies are not allowed to put higher

dosages on their bottles unless that particular brand had been used

in research with that higher dosage. This is why the dosage of EyeQ

and Efalex is so much higher.

PS Fish oil 'is' a food supplement -not a vitamin.

=====

[Guest guest]

This is good information, though. Because to be honest, I really did not

know that fish oil was just a food supplement, that it was really just oil

just as you would get oil from food. I guess because I have always thought

of the fish oil supplements as having other things in them, for example as

cod liver oil has Vit A and D.

Thank you for sharing all this information!

Sonya

[ ] Re: EFA calculation - is this right?

Hi Kristi!

Your question is an intelligent one -not argumentative at all. In

fact it's one I've thought of. I can tell you that in one eczema

study that they gave mega high dosages of Omegas and the only two

people who had any side effects... were both on the placebo! If it

wasn't so late I'd search for it. It's in the archives someplace

and I'm sure online someone can find it at PubMed or something.

See that's the thing. I've read about people dying from drinking

too much water, or for getting too much oxygen, but I've never heard

of anyone consuming too much fish oil and dropping dead...or getting

injured. You eat too much oil and you know what happens don't you?

(it's not pretty and I " m not going to say but just imagine for a

second)

Most people don't blot the oil off their pizza -something I've done

for years since I used to model and it was a trick I was taught to

keep thin. Most people have no clue how much oil they consume in a

day! I would guess if you had to put pizza oil from a slice into

capsules -you'd probably get like 6 capsules per slice or more based

on how much oil I typically have to sop up and at times using 2 or 3

papertowels. Try it.

Also my fear of higher dosages left me after reading Dr. Stoll's The

Omega 3 Connection. If you read what Eskimos eat and how much is

used in research (including how much was used in research by Efalex

and EyeQ) the amounts we use here are minuscule. Also most don't

know this...I now do. Companies are not allowed to put higher

dosages on their bottles unless that particular brand had been used

in research with that higher dosage. This is why the dosage of EyeQ

and Efalex is so much higher.

PS Fish oil 'is' a food supplement -not a vitamin.

=====

[Guest guest]

No offense taken, but I just want to clarify that no one out there should

feel any more or less comfortable about using high dose fish oil just

because I have a medical degree. There is no research to back this up, so it

remains just my personal (non-medical) experience. No recommendations can be

made based on one case report. But through this site there has been a case

series in the hundreds to thousands of kids who have benefited from these

supplements.

What you can feel more comfortable with is that, before I started my own

child on fish oil supplements, I read the literature thoroughly to make sure

in my own mind that it was safe for my son. First do no harm. And I can

plough through information and dissect fact from fiction...which is not

easily done for lay-people. Omega 3 supplements are probably one of the

supplements you can give your child. Safer than Tylenol, that's for sure!

I don't know how the baby formula is processed, but DHA is usually obtained

from fish, so it is likely a fish product, highly processed. -

[ ] Re: EFA calculation - is this right?

Kerri, I found this really helpful. I give my 26 mos old one

capsule ProEFA a day (1000 mg I think) and I've been torn about

increasing it. I must admit now that I know is a

pediatrician, I feel better about increasing the dose (no offense

there ; I could tell you knew your stuff but there is

something about getting an okay from an MD that makes me feel better

about supplementing my child--my BABY really).

One thing that still concerns me is the stuff someone posted about

borage oil being associated with seizures. My son has never had any

seizures, so I don't think he's prone to them or anything, but it

still is a very scary thought. I'd love some reassurance on this.

Another concern is the vitamin E. Is there any danger that higher

doses of fish oils could mean too much vitamin E supplement?

Remember the posts about nose bleeds occurring with the fish oil use

and how we were wondering if fish oils encourage bleeding? Well, it

just occurred to me that the last time I had planned surgery (long

time ago) I was told to avoid Vitamin E supplements prior to because

it encourages bleeding (can't remember how, blood thinner maybe?).

So I guess I'm not necessarily worried about too much DHA, et al.

I'm worried about some of the other ingredients in the fish oils.

Also, someone has posted that the amount in one capsule is the same

amount found in a day's supply of infant formula (the kind with DHA

and ARA added). Does this mean fish oils are added to the formula

or do they somehow extract the DHA and ARA from the oils and add

them to the formula?

Thanks to you--or anyone else--for answering these questions, and

thanks for posting this!

Kristi

[Guest guest]

Thanks ! Okay, one more sticking point: Fish oil is a food,

but vitamin E is a vitamin, and one 1000 mg capsule of ProEFA

contains 30 IU of vitamin E, which is 100% RDA for adults. I don't

know what the vitamin E RDA is for children, but since vitamin E is

a fat soluble vitamin (i.e., excess vitamin E consumed gets stored

in body fat rather than excreted in urine like water soluble

vitamins), I'm concerned about giving my child too much. Can anyone

tell me if this is a reasonable concern?

Thanks again,

Kristi

>

> Hi Kristi!

>

> Your question is an intelligent one -not argumentative at all. In

> fact it's one I've thought of. I can tell you that in one eczema

> study that they gave mega high dosages of Omegas and the only two

> people who had any side effects... were both on the placebo! If it

> wasn't so late I'd search for it. It's in the archives someplace

> and I'm sure online someone can find it at PubMed or something.

>

> See that's the thing. I've read about people dying from drinking

> too much water, or for getting too much oxygen, but I've never

heard

> of anyone consuming too much fish oil and dropping dead...or

getting

> injured. You eat too much oil and you know what happens don't you?

> (it's not pretty and I " m not going to say but just imagine for a

> second)

>

> Most people don't blot the oil off their pizza -something I've done

> for years since I used to model and it was a trick I was taught to

> keep thin. Most people have no clue how much oil they consume in a

> day! I would guess if you had to put pizza oil from a slice into

> capsules -you'd probably get like 6 capsules per slice or more

based

> on how much oil I typically have to sop up and at times using 2 or

3

> papertowels. Try it.

>

> Also my fear of higher dosages left me after reading Dr. Stoll's

The

> Omega 3 Connection. If you read what Eskimos eat and how much is

> used in research (including how much was used in research by Efalex

> and EyeQ) the amounts we use here are minuscule. Also most don't

> know this...I now do. Companies are not allowed to put higher

> dosages on their bottles unless that particular brand had been used

> in research with that higher dosage. This is why the dosage of

EyeQ

> and Efalex is so much higher.

>

> PS Fish oil 'is' a food supplement -not a vitamin.

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kristi!

1 capsule of ProEFA contains 15 IU of vitamin E (2 capsules contain

the 30 IU -that's what is on the bottle -dosage per two capsules).

You should avoid high dosages of vitamin E -but there are a two main

points to keep in mind when it comes to the vitamin E in fish oils.

One is that what is considered high in vitamin E, 100s or over 1000

IUs, is much higher than what we'd use with our children at say with

ProEFA -the 15 IUs per capsule. Second is that taking fish oils for

months create a deficiency of vitamin E. As always when in doubt

run by your child's pediatrician.

(however please note below some new info may be available soon)*

Here's some info that may help more:

" Precautions

Because of the potential for side effects and interactions with

medications, dietary supplements should be taken only under the

supervision of a knowledgeable healthcare provider.

Vitamin E should be taken together with another antioxidant called

selenium.

The Tolerable Upper Intake Limit (UL) for alpha-tocopherol is set at

1000 mg (1500 IU). Doses higher than this can cause nausea, gas,

diarrhea, heart palpitations, and increase the tendency to bleed.

It is especially important that those who have high blood pressure

or who are taking blood-thinners such as warfarin check with a

healthcare provider before taking vitamin E supplements.

There is some concern that a diet rich in fish oil taken for many

months may induce a deficiency of vitamin E. People who eat a diet

high in fish or who take fish oil supplements may want to consider

taking vitamin E supplements. "

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/VitaminEcs.html

" What is the health risk of too much vitamin E?

Most studies of the safety of vitamin E supplementation have lasted for several

months or less, so there is little evidence for the long-term safety of vitamin

E supplementation.

*ODS is working on updating this section of the vitamin E fact sheet to include

the results of meta-analyses and clinical trials that have been published

recently. A new version will be posted shortly.

The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has set an upper

tolerable intake level (UL) for vitamin E at 1,000 mg (1,500 IU) for any form of

supplementary alpha-tocopherol per day. Based for the most part on the result of

animal studies, the Board decided that because vitamin E can act as an

anticoagulant and may increase the risk of bleeding problems this UL is the

highest dose unlikely to result in bleeding problems. "

http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamine.asp

=====

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks ! Okay, one more sticking point: Fish oil is a food,

> but vitamin E is a vitamin, and one 1000 mg capsule of ProEFA

> contains 30 IU of vitamin E, which is 100% RDA for adults. I don't

> know what the vitamin E RDA is for children, but since vitamin E is

> a fat soluble vitamin (i.e., excess vitamin E consumed gets stored

> in body fat rather than excreted in urine like water soluble

> vitamins), I'm concerned about giving my child too much. Can anyone

> tell me if this is a reasonable concern?

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Kristi

>

>

This might be an argument for the liquid. One 1/2 tsp dose of liquid

ProEFA has more EFAs than 2 capsules, and only 2 IU of Vit. E.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Yes, you are right about the amount per capsule. I didn't realize

a " serving size " was 2 capsules, which means I've been giving my son

500 mg of fish oil, not 1000. Okay, so high doses of E (for adults

anyway) is in the 1500 IU range--well above the 15 IU in one capsule

of ProEFA and since fish oil depletes Vitamin E (how much we aren't

sure?) it may offset the extra E? Is that the theory? I wonder if

we should be supplementing with selenium also (if giving high doses

of fish oils). This is interesting. I'd love to talk to a

nutritionist about this to tweak the formula.

Thanks for walking me through this . This definitely clears up

a lot.

Kristi

>

> Hi Kristi!

>

> 1 capsule of ProEFA contains 15 IU of vitamin E (2 capsules contain

> the 30 IU -that's what is on the bottle -dosage per two capsules).

>

> You should avoid high dosages of vitamin E -but there are a two

main

> points to keep in mind when it comes to the vitamin E in fish oils.

> One is that what is considered high in vitamin E, 100s or over 1000

> IUs, is much higher than what we'd use with our children at say

with

> ProEFA -the 15 IUs per capsule. Second is that taking fish oils

for

> months create a deficiency of vitamin E. As always when in doubt

> run by your child's pediatrician.

>

> (however please note below some new info may be available soon)*

>

> Here's some info that may help more:

>

> " Precautions

>

> Because of the potential for side effects and interactions with

> medications, dietary supplements should be taken only under the

> supervision of a knowledgeable healthcare provider.

>

> Vitamin E should be taken together with another antioxidant called

> selenium.

>

> The Tolerable Upper Intake Limit (UL) for alpha-tocopherol is set

at

> 1000 mg (1500 IU). Doses higher than this can cause nausea, gas,

> diarrhea, heart palpitations, and increase the tendency to bleed.

>

> It is especially important that those who have high blood pressure

> or who are taking blood-thinners such as warfarin check with a

> healthcare provider before taking vitamin E supplements.

>

> There is some concern that a diet rich in fish oil taken for many

> months may induce a deficiency of vitamin E. People who eat a diet

> high in fish or who take fish oil supplements may want to consider

> taking vitamin E supplements. "

> http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/VitaminEcs.html

>

> " What is the health risk of too much vitamin E?

> Most studies of the safety of vitamin E supplementation have

lasted for several months or less, so there is little evidence for

the long-term safety of vitamin E supplementation.

>

> *ODS is working on updating this section of the vitamin E fact

sheet to include the results of meta-analyses and clinical trials

that have been published recently. A new version will be posted

shortly.

>

>

> The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has set

an upper tolerable intake level (UL) for vitamin E at 1,000 mg

(1,500 IU) for any form of supplementary alpha-tocopherol per day.

Based for the most part on the result of animal studies, the Board

decided that because vitamin E can act as an anticoagulant and may

increase the risk of bleeding problems this UL is the highest dose

unlikely to result in bleeding problems. "

> http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamine.asp

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Especially if you are giving lots of it because then the open bottle

won't be sitting around for long. I was thinking the same thing for

the Coromega, it doesn't have as much Vit E and said befor that

you could add a little borage oil to get the omega 6s.

> >

> > Thanks ! Okay, one more sticking point: Fish oil is a food,

> > but vitamin E is a vitamin, and one 1000 mg capsule of ProEFA

> > contains 30 IU of vitamin E, which is 100% RDA for adults. I

don't

> > know what the vitamin E RDA is for children, but since vitamin E

is

> > a fat soluble vitamin (i.e., excess vitamin E consumed gets

stored

> > in body fat rather than excreted in urine like water soluble

> > vitamins), I'm concerned about giving my child too much. Can

anyone

> > tell me if this is a reasonable concern?

> >

> > Thanks again,

> >

> > Kristi

> >

> >

>

> This might be an argument for the liquid. One 1/2 tsp dose of

liquid

> ProEFA has more EFAs than 2 capsules, and only 2 IU of Vit. E.

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

I'm trying to follow all these calculations but everyone seems to be

talking about the ProEFA capsules. What about the liquid? My son

is 2 years old and preverbal and diagnosed with verbal apraxia. He

won't chew the ProEFA chewable and is not a good eater. So I have

been giving him 1/4 tsp of the liquid in a small cup of juice. I

have seem some improvement in terms of more babbling but not sure if

it is the fish oil or not. How much liquid should I give him? The

bottle says 1/2 tsp but wasn't sure if that was appropriate for

children his age.

Sorry if this was already answered. I find this very confusing.

>

> Especially if you are giving lots of it because then the open

bottle

> won't be sitting around for long. I was thinking the same thing

for

> the Coromega, it doesn't have as much Vit E and said befor

that

> you could add a little borage oil to get the omega 6s.

>

[Guest guest]

1/4 tsp is pretty small amount. Each capsule is about 1/4 tsp, so 2 capsules

= 1/2 tsp. You want to give at least a 1/2 tsp. More babbling is the first

sign. Try the higher dose and see if its more obvious. -claudia

[ ] Re: EFA calculation - is this right?

I'm trying to follow all these calculations but everyone seems to be

talking about the ProEFA capsules. What about the liquid? My son

is 2 years old and preverbal and diagnosed with verbal apraxia. He

won't chew the ProEFA chewable and is not a good eater. So I have

been giving him 1/4 tsp of the liquid in a small cup of juice. I

have seem some improvement in terms of more babbling but not sure if

it is the fish oil or not. How much liquid should I give him? The

bottle says 1/2 tsp but wasn't sure if that was appropriate for

children his age.

Sorry if this was already answered. I find this very confusing.

>

> Especially if you are giving lots of it because then the open

bottle

> won't be sitting around for long. I was thinking the same thing

for

> the Coromega, it doesn't have as much Vit E and said befor

that

> you could add a little borage oil to get the omega 6s.

>

[Guest guest]

By the way, many of us pierce the capsules than squeeze the oil out

into food or something that our child will eat (or drink), so we

aren't actually giving them the capsules but the oil in the

capsules. This works well if you wouldn't use the bottle of oil up

quickly because you don't have to worry about the oil being exposed

to air over time (since it's encapsulated). Capsules travel well

and don't have to be refrigerated.

> >

> > Especially if you are giving lots of it because then the open

> bottle

> > won't be sitting around for long. I was thinking the same thing

> for

> > the Coromega, it doesn't have as much Vit E and said befor

> that

> > you could add a little borage oil to get the omega 6s.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>