Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 We just starting seeing this amazing speech therapist who said my 3 year old daughter does not have verbal apraxia but has a motor planning disorder. (Two previous speech therapist said she has apraxia). I thought apraxia IS a motor planning disorder- what's the difference? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Well, yes, I thought so too. Maybe what she means is that your DD has oral apraxia rather than verbal apraxia?? Maybe you could ask her to explain the difference between motor planning disorders, oral apraxia and verbal apraxia--then come back and tell all of us?? It took me two years to figure out that the ST were talking about something different when they said expressive speech delay, articulation errors, receptive speech delay, phonological disorders and language disorders...I guess I was supposed to understand all that, duh. They don't explain very well what they are talking about sometimes. Peace, Kathy E. > > We just starting seeing this amazing speech therapist who said my 3 year old daughter does > not have verbal apraxia but has a motor planning disorder. (Two previous speech therapist > said she has apraxia). I thought apraxia IS a motor planning disorder- what's the difference? > Thanks, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Apraxia IS a motor planning disorder. [ ] motor planning disorder? We just starting seeing this amazing speech therapist who said my 3 year old daughter does not have verbal apraxia but has a motor planning disorder. (Two previous speech therapist said she has apraxia). I thought apraxia IS a motor planning disorder- what's the difference? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hi ! Who are the three SLPs in regards to your child? Private or EI therapists? If private, why did you switch from the other two SLPs to the one you are with now, or does your child see more than one private SLP? Were you happy with either of the other two prior to the amazing one your child is seeing now? In a situation like this the best thing to do is to calmly ask the SLP for clarification. You and are both correct in that (of course) apraxia is a motor planning disorder, but Kathy made an excellent point in that perhaps this SLP was trying to say (in her opinion) that it's not 'verbal' apraxia, but he does have some motor planning deficits, perhaps more in his body then in regards to speech as in the case of the UK definition of dyspraxia? That's probably the only out there which is why you need clarification from the one who made the statement. Perhaps you misunderstood? Perhaps s/he wasn't clear? I mean we all know that these speech impairments overlap anyway so just because a child has apraxia (a motor planning disorder) doesn't mean that very same child doesn't 'also' have mild dysarthria too (weakness of the muscle/hypotonia) Having one doesn't rule out the other. You can again however have these conditions in other areas of the body, or have them in one area alone...which is not as common. Either that or that is the more obvious reasoning...the 'amazing' SLP is 'amazingly' clueless... in regards to apraxia at least. ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 At 03:09 PM 5/21/2006, you wrote: >We just starting seeing this amazing speech therapist who said my 3 year >old daughter does >not have verbal apraxia but has a motor planning disorder. (Two previous >speech therapist >said she has apraxia). I thought apraxia IS a motor planning disorder- >what's the difference? >Thanks, > That sounds really confusing! Apraxia is a motor planning disorder! Does she mean it's more mild and not severe enough to call it apraxia? The OT my son saw last summer said he has some motor planning issues with fine motor control, but not severe enough to call dyspraxia. Since he was diagnosed the next week with verbal dyspraxia (the term she prefers for apraxia) and some oral dyspraxia I generally just say he has very mild dyspraxia in his fingers as well. What makes this SLP amazing compared to the others? I would ask for clarification of what she means by the above, but at the same time if she is amazing because of the results she is getting with your daughter keep going! If she is " amazing " based on other's recommendations, but isn't working with your child I'd seek out a SLP who has more experience with apraxia (assuming that this one is clueless on apraxia if she doesn't realize it is a motor planning disorder.) Miche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Speaking of other speech conditions - like dysarthria... since kids with both oral and verbal apraxia have low tone in their face and mouth...shouldn't dysarthria actually be common among these children? It seems that the low facial and tongue tone would be in addition to a motor planning disorder? - [ ] Re: motor planning disorder? Hi ! Who are the three SLPs in regards to your child? Private or EI therapists? If private, why did you switch from the other two SLPs to the one you are with now, or does your child see more than one private SLP? Were you happy with either of the other two prior to the amazing one your child is seeing now? In a situation like this the best thing to do is to calmly ask the SLP for clarification. You and are both correct in that (of course) apraxia is a motor planning disorder, but Kathy made an excellent point in that perhaps this SLP was trying to say (in her opinion) that it's not 'verbal' apraxia, but he does have some motor planning deficits, perhaps more in his body then in regards to speech as in the case of the UK definition of dyspraxia? That's probably the only out there which is why you need clarification from the one who made the statement. Perhaps you misunderstood? Perhaps s/he wasn't clear? I mean we all know that these speech impairments overlap anyway so just because a child has apraxia (a motor planning disorder) doesn't mean that very same child doesn't 'also' have mild dysarthria too (weakness of the muscle/hypotonia) Having one doesn't rule out the other. You can again however have these conditions in other areas of the body, or have them in one area alone...which is not as common. Either that or that is the more obvious reasoning...the 'amazing' SLP is 'amazingly' clueless... in regards to apraxia at least. ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 My almost 3 yo was diagnosed with dysarthria as well as dyspraxia. His cheeks are very round and baby-ish (cute to me!) and last Thurs our SLP noticed the sides of his tongue appear to have tone but not the center like it has ridges. My son still cannot stick out his tongue except to sort of let it hang out a tiny bit. His tongue appears short and kinda fat. > > Speaking of other speech conditions - like dysarthria... since kids with both oral and verbal apraxia have low tone in their face and mouth...shouldn't dysarthria actually be common among these children? It seems that the low facial and tongue tone would be in addition to a motor planning disorder? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 My son can not move his tounge side to side or up and down. Plus he too has trouble sticking his touge out. Wyndi -- [ ] Re: motor planning disorder? My almost 3 yo was diagnosed with dysarthria as well as dyspraxia. His cheeks are very round and baby-ish (cute to me!) and last Thurs our SLP noticed the sides of his tongue appear to have tone but not the center like it has ridges. My son still cannot stick out his tongue except to sort of let it hang out a tiny bit. His tongue appears short and kinda fat. > > Speaking of other speech conditions - like dysarthria... since kids with both oral and verbal apraxia have low tone in their face and mouth...shouldn't dysarthria actually be common among these children? It seems that the low facial and tongue tone would be in addition to a motor planning disorder? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 What is dysarthria? Wyndi -- [ ] Re: motor planning disorder? Hi ! Who are the three SLPs in regards to your child? Private or EI therapists? If private, why did you switch from the other two SLPs to the one you are with now, or does your child see more than one private SLP? Were you happy with either of the other two prior to the amazing one your child is seeing now? In a situation like this the best thing to do is to calmly ask the SLP for clarification. You and are both correct in that (of course) apraxia is a motor planning disorder, but Kathy made an excellent point in that perhaps this SLP was trying to say (in her opinion) that it's not 'verbal' apraxia, but he does have some motor planning deficits, perhaps more in his body then in regards to speech as in the case of the UK definition of dyspraxia? That's probably the only out there which is why you need clarification from the one who made the statement. Perhaps you misunderstood? Perhaps s/he wasn't clear? I mean we all know that these speech impairments overlap anyway so just because a child has apraxia (a motor planning disorder) doesn't mean that very same child doesn't 'also' have mild dysarthria too (weakness of the muscle/hypotonia) Having one doesn't rule out the other. You can again however have these conditions in other areas of the body, or have them in one area alone...which is not as common. Either that or that is the more obvious reasoning...the 'amazing' SLP is 'amazingly' clueless... in regards to apraxia at least. ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I'm sure others can explain it better than me. But dysarthria is a speech production problem that results from a component of weakness of the muscles involved ie tongue, cheeks etc... whereas apraxia of speech is more of a motor planning problem. Everything " works " such that speech should be possible, yet the message from the brain to the muscles that coordinate speech gets scrambled. But given the low tone, it never made sense to me that dysarthria would not be a component for those kids with low one. - RE: [ ] Re: motor planning disorder? What is dysarthria? Wyndi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Wyndi, Welcome! My son just learned to move his tongue laterally, though he still has trouble moving it to one side, and he only moves it up accidentally. He was very proud of himself when he finally got this, and he knows I love it. Today when I got home from work, he greeted me by sticking his tongue out and moving it around. Kristi > > > > Speaking of other speech conditions - like dysarthria... since kids > with both oral and verbal apraxia have low tone in their face and > mouth...shouldn't dysarthria actually be common among these children? > It seems that the low facial and tongue tone would be in addition to a > motor planning disorder? - > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 We are currently seeing one other therapist (private NPA paid by the school district). We were referred to the " amazing therapist " (the one who said my daughter does not have verbal apraxia, but a motor planning disorder) by another parent whose child has apraxia and they had good results. We have only had a few sessions with her and they were very productive. She gives my daughter easier approximations for words that she can say (to at least be understood better). The other therapist uses " play therapy " which is fine (she's only 3), but in one hour with the new therapist she practiced 5 times the amount of sounds/words than with the other therapist. I did ask her the difference between verbal apraxia and a motor planning disorder and she said that with apraxia the child has difficulty making the sounds and with motor planning disorder the child has difficulty " remembering " how to put the sounds together. (Seems like it depends what " stage " of apraxia the child is in. At first my daughter could not many many sounds, now she's figuring out how to put the sounds together to make words and words into sentences). She said because she can stick her tongue out, lick her lips, etc and model sounds/ some words she does not have apraxia. I think she is getting oral vs. verbal apraxia definitions mixed up. But I guess as long as her technique works and my daughter improves, I don't care what her definition is. I just wanted to find out if there really was a difference. My daughter has definitely improved since we started with EI a year ago, but we still have a long road ahead of us. She just started being able to model (not perfectly, but close approximations) most one and two syllable words, but she has difficulty spontaneously saying the words and goes back to pointing or using her universal word " dee dee " for everything until I give her the word for her to model. She just started putting 2 words together (sometime even 3). Is is common practice for a speech therapist to teach the kids " better/easier " approximations for words, rather than the correct pronunciaton (i.e. Tank Yoo, diraffe)? Thank you for your opinion! > > Hi ! > > Who are the three SLPs in regards to your child? Private or EI > therapists? If private, why did you switch from the other two SLPs > to the one you are with now, or does your child see more than one > private SLP? Were you happy with either of the other two prior to > the amazing one your child is seeing now? > > In a situation like this the best thing to do is to calmly ask the > SLP for clarification. You and are both correct in that (of > course) apraxia is a motor planning disorder, but Kathy made an > excellent point in that perhaps this SLP was trying to say (in her > opinion) that it's not 'verbal' apraxia, but he does have some motor > planning deficits, perhaps more in his body then in regards to > speech as in the case of the UK definition of dyspraxia? That's > probably the only out there which is why you need clarification from > the one who made the statement. Perhaps you misunderstood? Perhaps > s/he wasn't clear? I mean we all know that these speech impairments > overlap anyway so just because a child has apraxia (a motor planning > disorder) doesn't mean that very same child doesn't 'also' have mild > dysarthria too (weakness of the muscle/hypotonia) Having one > doesn't rule out the other. You can again however have these > conditions in other areas of the body, or have them in one area > alone...which is not as common. > > Either that or that is the more obvious reasoning...the 'amazing' > SLP is 'amazingly' clueless... in regards to apraxia at least. > > ===== > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 The Kaufman approach for apraxia does this (approximations rather than correct pronounciation). Although I believe there is some debates among " apraxia experts " , this technique is often very successful with apraxic children...lets them make progress (and feel good about themselves), gets them to a point where they are understood, even if they aren't saying it perfectly, and moves towards correct pronunciation (eventually). It seems you therapist is in fact a little confused between verbal and oral apraxia, but if what she's doing is working...than semantics really doesn't atter. - [ ] Re: motor planning disorder? We are currently seeing one other therapist (private NPA paid by the school district). We were referred to the " amazing therapist " (the one who said my daughter does not have verbal apraxia, but a motor planning disorder) by another parent whose child has apraxia and they had good results. We have only had a few sessions with her and they were very productive. She gives my daughter easier approximations for words that she can say (to at least be understood better). The other therapist uses " play therapy " which is fine (she's only 3), but in one hour with the new therapist she practiced 5 times the amount of sounds/words than with the other therapist. I did ask her the difference between verbal apraxia and a motor planning disorder and she said that with apraxia the child has difficulty making the sounds and with motor planning disorder the child has difficulty " remembering " how to put the sounds together. (Seems like it depends what " stage " of apraxia the child is in. At first my daughter could not many many sounds, now she's figuring out how to put the sounds together to make words and words into sentences). She said because she can stick her tongue out, lick her lips, etc and model sounds/ some words she does not have apraxia. I think she is getting oral vs. verbal apraxia definitions mixed up. But I guess as long as her technique works and my daughter improves, I don't care what her definition is. I just wanted to find out if there really was a difference. My daughter has definitely improved since we started with EI a year ago, but we still have a long road ahead of us. She just started being able to model (not perfectly, but close approximations) most one and two syllable words, but she has difficulty spontaneously saying the words and goes back to pointing or using her universal word " dee dee " for everything until I give her the word for her to model. She just started putting 2 words together (sometime even 3). Is is common practice for a speech therapist to teach the kids " better/easier " approximations for words, rather than the correct pronunciaton (i.e. Tank Yoo, diraffe)? Thank you for your opinion! > > Hi ! > > Who are the three SLPs in regards to your child? Private or EI > therapists? If private, why did you switch from the other two SLPs > to the one you are with now, or does your child see more than one > private SLP? Were you happy with either of the other two prior to > the amazing one your child is seeing now? > > In a situation like this the best thing to do is to calmly ask the > SLP for clarification. You and are both correct in that (of > course) apraxia is a motor planning disorder, but Kathy made an > excellent point in that perhaps this SLP was trying to say (in her > opinion) that it's not 'verbal' apraxia, but he does have some motor > planning deficits, perhaps more in his body then in regards to > speech as in the case of the UK definition of dyspraxia? That's > probably the only out there which is why you need clarification from > the one who made the statement. Perhaps you misunderstood? Perhaps > s/he wasn't clear? I mean we all know that these speech impairments > overlap anyway so just because a child has apraxia (a motor planning > disorder) doesn't mean that very same child doesn't 'also' have mild > dysarthria too (weakness of the muscle/hypotonia) Having one > doesn't rule out the other. You can again however have these > conditions in other areas of the body, or have them in one area > alone...which is not as common. > > Either that or that is the more obvious reasoning...the 'amazing' > SLP is 'amazingly' clueless... in regards to apraxia at least. > > ===== > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 The approach we've used with my son hasn't been so much to actually teach him approximations, but to accept and praise any approximation he made on his own with modelling of the correct pronounciation. Then after he encorporated the word into his functional language we worked to correct it. Miche At 09:01 AM 5/23/2006, you wrote: >The Kaufman approach for apraxia does this (approximations rather than >correct pronounciation). Although I believe there is some debates among > " apraxia experts " , this technique is often very successful with apraxic >children...lets them make progress (and feel good about themselves), gets >them to a point where they are understood, even if they aren't saying it >perfectly, and moves towards correct pronunciation (eventually). It seems >you therapist is in fact a little confused between verbal and oral apraxia, >but if what she's doing is working...than semantics really doesn't >atter. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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