I hate this! I hate all of this!

[Guest guest]

Jeff got mad at Greggory

> for

> > vomiting because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on

> purpose so he wouldnt have to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this

> time. Not impossible but I dont believe it.

We recently told we'd fix him something else for dinner because he

was gagging after almost every bite......and it's something he liked and

wanted to eat! It just happened to mess up his oral sensitivities that

night. We were afraid he'd throw up if we LET him keep eating.

Sorry to hear it's still going so badly. I'm concerned that he didn't take

Greggory to school even.

I can understand how badly his saying he hates you must have made you

feel...I wish there were something I could to to help out :-(

Sue

[Guest guest]

Thanks. It could be the fix issure. But the more I have been thinking about our

fight I have been thinking it really has very little to do with the kids. Jeff

has always thought I wasnt satisfied with him. I always wanted him to be

something he wasnt or give me something he couldn't. I thinik he got really mad

when he felt I couldnt trust him with the boys. Like I thought he would abuse

them. I must admit that ever since Nov when he hit Greggory I have been a little

on edge. I have no idea what I am going to do but just sit here and wait. ugh

Jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

> Thanks. I am tired of the fighting just like Jeff. But I dont want

to give up. I dont know if Jeff still feels like he should fix the

kids. Maybe he still does. I do think it can be worse with Greggory

because Greggory is really very close to being " normal " and things

like eating only a few foods seem to hold him back. I hate this.

Thanks.

>

Everyone deals with it differently so I could be off base on

the " fix " issue. I just know how Mike is and that he was very hard on

until recently and I think it's for the reasons you mention

with Greggory...he's so close to being " normal " and a lot of what

does looks like manipulation and fit pitching.

I didn't expect any response from Mike, he rarely talks about the

kids and I've given up trying for the most part, but I told him about

the book I was reading and how it said that if you've already been

working really hard on discipline and it's not working, why not put

that energy into something that will work. Mike never did comment,

but he has been a lot more understanding with lately.

I hope Jeff calms down enough to talk about it this evening.

(((((hugs))))))

Tina

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I think you are right about last night just being a trigger for

something else. I think it really has to do with 2 things. 1 that he thiniks I

dont trust him around the boys. And 2 that he has always felt that I dont think

he is really what I want. That I feel he isnt enough. ~sigh~

Jacquie H

RE: I hate this! I hate all of this!

I am sorry this crap is happening. I think I would wait a little and

then you might try to talk to him and work things out. It looks like

there is more than just this fight to sort out. Sometimes men have a

hard time expressing themselves and what is bothering them jumps out as

some other thing happens. Just a thought. I could be totally wrong.

{{{{{{{{{{{Jacquie H}}}}}}}}}}}}

Cecilia, from Peru (mom to Dessiree 3½ yo, no dx yet some autistic

traits)

Lovely husband

-----Mensaje original-----

De: Jacquie

Enviado el: Miércoles, 05 de Febrero de 2003 12:22 a.m.

Para: parenting_autism

Asunto: I hate this! I hate all of this!

I am venting rather loudly and pathetically right now. Skip if you want.

Jeff and I got into a fight. We argue a good deal from time to time(as

we are both stubborn) but this was a fight. I had greggory eating Mac N

cheese with us tonight. Of course Jeff decided Greggory must eat a

bowlful. ugh. A child who gags on everything and likes only 10 foods

maybe. Anyway, Greggory gagged through it and cried and Jeff isisted he

still eat it. I sat and watched. I was wishing it would just be over.

Then Yessenia wakes up so I go to get her and I find that Jeff has sent

Greggory upstairs and Greggory is sobbing. He vomited from gagging and

Jeff is furious. I tell Greggory to wash up and go to bed and to stop

crying. I then go downstairs and tell Jeff I think he is expecting too

much we get into a big arguement. This then turns ugly by his yelling at

me and telling me that I dont think Jeff ever does anything right and

that I thinik he doesnt know how to take care of the kids. I do think I

know better most times. I do interfere when I shouldnt. But this wasnt

like that. Not this time. Then he says the last time I freaked out was

when he grabbed Greggory on the bed and then I told him no it was when

he hit Greggory at his Grandmother's. That was it. He got so angry and

hurt I guess. he said I couldnt trust him with his own children. He

yelled that he hated me. He wanted a divorce. he didnt need this stress

anymore. He went to make a motion to hit me but didnt. He stopped

himself. I dont know if he would have. He left. I hate this crap! I hate

the stress we feel. I hate that eating a fucking dsinner turns into

this! Why cant my life be fucking normal?!

Jacquie H

[Guest guest]

I usually do feed the boys their own dinner before Jeff and I eat. But Jeff

" wanted " Greggory to eat with us. I was actually the one who wanted Greggory to

eat some mac n cheese, but I was going to give him a very small amount and not

push it reallyt. Just isist that he try some and if he refused then he would get

nothing else for dinner. If he ate the food he could have his beloved pizza

stix. I hope Jeff decides to talk soon so we can have then done and over

with.

Jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Jacquie,

So sorry it turned into such an awful argument. You were right though. He

shouldn't force the kids into eating something. The oral sensory stuff is

not in Greggory's control, and he shouldn't be mad at Greggory for vomiting,

he should be mad at himself for making his son do that!!

I have a habit of running interference for the boys with Mark too. We do

know our kids better than our spouses and they do tend to overdo things when

it comes to the kids.

Maybe you could try feeding the boys before you and Jeff sit down to eat?

Then you could avoid fighting over the kids?

Hope things are better for you soon.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Jeff wasn't being mean or anything to Greggory. Unless making him eat it

all was mean. I think it was just expecting too much. He was just insisting that

Greggory finish it. So Greggory kept going and gagging the entire way. ugh. And

then while i was with Yessenia I guess he just vomited. Bleech. So then he was

told to go to his room after he cleaned up. I would have made Greggory eat the

whole bowl. I would have made him clean himself up after he vomited and I would

have just let it be. But Jeff was really irritated. He said that Greggory would

onyl gag when we were looking. He was trying to get out of it. I dont think so.

But I really cant say. I know we have a niece who would vomit if she didnt want

to eat. So maybe this is why he is convinced this is what Greggoy was doing. I

dont know. I dont know if he feels guilty about Greggory. Probably not. But I

could be wrong. I do know that he is truly anger with me though.

Jacquie H

RE: Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

> Thanks. I am tired of the fighting just like Jeff. But I dont want

to give up. I dont know if Jeff still feels like he should fix the

kids. Maybe he still does. I do think it can be worse with Greggory

because Greggory is really very close to being " normal " and things

like eating only a few foods seem to hold him back. I hate this.

Thanks.

>

I've found that most men feel they must fix things. Even if you're just

venting,

they look for a solution, rather than just listening, they feel as if you're

complaining. He probably thinks he needs to fix Greggory, and is frustrated

that

he can't. I'm sure that little things they do feel manipulative, but jeez,

they

aren't. In this case, I don't think that Greggory was testing, I mean, if

there

are only a few foods he'll eat *always* then that's the way it is. Somehow,

Jeff

needs to understand, Greggory isn't there for you nor him to fix, especially

in

a coercise way. Even with NT kids coercise rarely works and breeds anger.

The good thing is that Jeff came back, even though you're not speaking, he did

come back. I know what I would do but my relationship is a whole other ball of

wax and I don't think it would work for you. You know Jeff, give him whatever

time he needs to discuss this with him. I'm sure he is hurt and may even feel

guilt because of Greggory. Sigh, it's tough, but hang in there.

debbi

[Guest guest]

Yes. Greggory too tries to east some things he wants to but gags then as well.

This was not the case this time though. I am sure the gagging was about

something he didnt like and didnt want to eat. But I dont think that is the

reason. Jeff truly believes in overcoming the gag with willpower. I personally

find Greggory too young to even think this would work. Even if he were NT with

no real issues. Jeff was raised very differently though.

I am a bit upset that Jeff didnt take Greggory to school. He talked to Greggory

in the morning and so he wasnt mad at him. I think he just wanted me to have to

take him. Which of course Jeff didnt tell me I was going to have to do and

yessenia and alec were not dressed at 7:45am when Greggory was supposed to leave

and jeff did. ugh. So Greggory was late. I think that was directed towards me

though. Bleech!

Jacquie H

Re: Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Jeff got mad at Greggory

> for

> > vomiting because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on

> purpose so he wouldnt have to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this

> time. Not impossible but I dont believe it.

We recently told we'd fix him something else for dinner because he

was gagging after almost every bite......and it's something he liked and

wanted to eat! It just happened to mess up his oral sensitivities that

night. We were afraid he'd throw up if we LET him keep eating.

Sorry to hear it's still going so badly. I'm concerned that he didn't take

Greggory to school even.

I can understand how badly his saying he hates you must have made you

feel...I wish there were something I could to to help out :-(

Sue

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry that all of this is happening. Does he honestly think you

are to blame for the children's illness? Does he think that by

running away that it's all going to go away, that his

responsibilities will be lightened? Is there a way you could

approach him with these things? I hate to say this, and I don't know

how to say it tactfully, but I'm sure going to try, and I apologize

in advance if it comes out wrong. Is there anything about yourself

that might be aggravating the situation? I know that when I went

through my divorce I had to do a LOT of introspection. We tend to

get so wrapped up in this whole mess that we lose ourselves or become

oblivious to what is going on with others. The breakdown in

communication here is a huge problem. You must see if there is

something that he sees that you don't, and address it honestly.

I believe he's probably frustrated and doesn't know how to handle

it. I wish you the best and I hope I didn't offend you.

-- In parenting_autism , " Jacquie "

<jacquie_harris@n...> wrote:

> Thanks Sara. You arent out of line. Jeff got mad at Greggory for

vomiting because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on purpose

so he wouldnt have to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this time. Not

impossible but I dont believe it.

> I think counseling would or could help. I am not sure Jeff is open

to it. And to be honest he said he was done with this and he wants a

divorce so maybe it doesnt matter. I cant even say if you dont get

counseling I will have to leave. ugh.

> Thanks Sara!

> Jacquie H

> RE: I hate this! I hate all of this!

>

>

> Oh, Jacquie. I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry.

>

> What the **** does it matter how much Greggory eats? Why the

hell would

> Jeff get angry at Greggory for throwing up? I'm sure G didn't

WANT to.

> Good Lord.

>

> It sounds like it may be time for some counseling, either for

Jeff alone to

> work through his childhood issues and get some help with

appropriate

> expectations, or for both of you to work on coming to agreements

about these

> kinds of things -- what's expected of the kids, how they are

disciplined,

> etc.

>

> I hope I'm not out of line here.

>

> {{{{{Jacquie}}}}}

>

> Prayers.

>

> -Sara.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, dear, forcing food issues is really NOT a good idea, at least not like

that. But you obviously know that.

This what a believe. I think setting the food out and telling them its that or

nothing is more along my style. So I leave it up to the child at that point.

Now I have been very frustrated with a child who would not eat something

(usually something that I have prepared specially for that child, grrrr) and

I do actually understand how Jeff feels.

I do too. ~sigh~

But I would have hoped that he would have calmed down and realized that

forcing food is not a good way to go.

He actually wasnt mad at Greggory at the table. At least not until he was

convinced Greggory was trying to make himself sick.

Especially not to the point of making

Greggory vomit (I do not believe that the vomiting was planned).

I dont think Greggory tried to vomit either. I think it was just a bad reaction

to involuntary gagging. ugh

I don't like the fact that he was still mad hours later. Lou used to do that

so

probably that is why it bugs me so much (and also I am the kind of person who

totally forgets she was mad about five seconds later, often forgetting any

punishments doled out until the kid comes in and argues about it and

then reminds me, LOL)

jeff got over being mad at Greggory last night. Rather quickly getting mad at

me. Me because he thinks I dont trust him. I dont know what to think right now

to be honest. I have always trusted Jeff. But in these last few months I think

something is not quite the same. I dont know how to explain it. It is really

very odd. I dont know if I could put it into words. But Jeff is not handling

things the way he used to. The way he always had. Maybe he has been pushed to

his limit and needs to decompress. I dont know.

Most mothers do but only because they are with the kids more. Obviously the

more you are with someone the better you are able to figure them out.

Yes. This is what I think also. It makes sense. I do beleive there are times

when I cant be as objective as Jeff but I really dont beleive this was one of

those times.

He does sound as if he has some problems with the kids. I never liked

leaving my children with Lou because I knew he was prone to hit or yell or

punish inappropriately. He said that I was too attached to the kids, but if

I had married a man that I could trust, I would have loved to get out and do

things knowing that they were safe with their father.

I have never felt this way with Jeff. Not until recently have I ever thought he

might do anything to them. I dont think he would now either, but there is

something in me that has changed. Like my faith has been damaged. Do you know

what I mean? This is all because of these last few months.

I am glad that he had that much control.

I am too. I would have left at that point if he actually had hiot me. I think he

was striking the air in wanting to hit me or anything but I walked into his

space (trying to get past him to put a video on for alec) and so maybe i was a

bit closer than he expected but i was still a good 2 feet away. But still. But

the worst for me was his saying he hated me.

Sorry, Jacquie, so very sorry.

Salli

Thanks.

Jacquie H

[Guest guest]

Jeff does not blame me for the boys autism. He never has. He left because I am

sure he thought he might do something stupid that he would regret if he stayed.

He does have a very bad temper. In the end it was for the best that he left to

cool off. Staying would have made things worse. I dont know if I can talk to him

about anything right now. Probably not. I know I did aggrivate him. I did not

back down at all when I told him I thought he was being too hard on Greggory. I

knew he was getting very upset and I keep telling him I thought he was wrong. I

guess that was too much for him. I sort of knew it was while I was doing it.

But there was a part of me that felt I just had to say these things. But really

the fight wasnt over eating the dinner. The fight was about his feeling I dont

trust him with the kids and that he feels I am no what I really want. That he

isnt perfect or good enough. This is a liong standing fight. ugh. You didnt

offend me. Thanks for thinking of me.

Jacquie H

I'm sorry that all of this is happening. Does he honestly think you

are to blame for the children's illness? Does he think that by

running away that it's all going to go away, that his

responsibilities will be lightened? Is there a way you could

approach him with these things? I hate to say this, and I don't know

how to say it tactfully, but I'm sure going to try, and I apologize

in advance if it comes out wrong. Is there anything about yourself

that might be aggravating the situation? I know that when I went

through my divorce I had to do a LOT of introspection. We tend to

get so wrapped up in this whole mess that we lose ourselves or become

oblivious to what is going on with others. The breakdown in

communication here is a huge problem. You must see if there is

something that he sees that you don't, and address it honestly.

I believe he's probably frustrated and doesn't know how to handle

it. I wish you the best and I hope I didn't offend you.

[Guest guest]

I am sure it was. Bleech!

jacquie H

Re: Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

think he just wanted me to have to take him. Which of course Jeff didnt tell

me I was going to have to do and yessenia and alec were not dressed at

7:45am when Greggory was supposed to leave and jeff did. ugh. So Greggory

was late. I think that was directed towards me though. Bleech!

Jacquie:

It sounds to me as if it is directed at you, very definitely so.

Salli

[Guest guest]

Jacquie,

If you think you need to be able to tell Jeff how you feel about things but

don't dare talk to him yet, why not write him a letter? Then you can take

your time to make sure you state it write and that you remember everything

you want to say to him.

Just a thought.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I may just do that.

Jacquie H

Re: Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Jacquie,

If you think you need to be able to tell Jeff how you feel about things but

don't dare talk to him yet, why not write him a letter? Then you can take

your time to make sure you state it write and that you remember everything

you want to say to him.

Just a thought.

Sue

[Guest guest]

>>Jeff wasn't being mean or anything to Greggory. <<

Coercise isn't necessarily mean, it's an insistence. Greggory did try to do what

he wanted, he just couldn't. Why do you think he expects too much? Is he still

in denial? Perhaps he's just really stressed. Happens here all the time. Joe

hides from it, I just am giving him time, it's a tough thing to have to deal

with.

debbi

[Guest guest]

Oh, Jacquie.

What an ugly night.

I may be waaay off base here, but -- do you think jeff is worried about

Yessenia? See, the reason I ask is that Marc used to stage scenes like Jeff

did last night, and it was like he thought he could FORCE to be normal,

even for a few moments, but as time passed he stopped because it was clear

that he couldn't. But I'm thinking that maybe if Jeff is worried about

Yessenia, he might be AGAIN trying to FORCE Greggory to be normal as a sort

of mental and emotional reassurance that Yessenia will be normal too.

Like I said, I may be way off base, but it sounds like Jeff is angry and

frustrated and scared.

It's NOT fair or acceptable that he should take that out on you or on

Greggory.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> Thanks Sara. You arent out of line. Jeff got mad at Greggory for

vomiting because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on purpose so he

wouldnt have to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this time. Not impossible but

I dont believe it.

>

I don't think our kids are capable of such a nasty and icky and painful

manipulation.

> I think counseling would or could help. I am not sure Jeff is open to it.

And to be honest he said he was done with this and he wants a divorce so

maybe it doesnt matter. I cant even say if you dont get counseling I will

have to leave. ugh.

>

My guts wants to believe that he said that because he wanted to be hurtful,

not because that's what he wants.

Seems to me like he's really lashing out. He's acting like someone who's

got a lot of pain and anger and wants to kick out and inflict it on someone

else, like a dog who'se been run over by a car and tries to bite your hand

off even though he loves you.

How are you going to take the next step? Are you planning on playing the

game his way and see what happens, or just trying to wait him out, or will

you sit him down and try to talk? What do you plan on doing when he gets

home from work today? Is there ANYONE who can take the kids so it's just

the two of you when he gets home?

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

((((Jacquie)))), I'm so sorry, it's no fun I know. and I get

into small arguements about the same thing. It's hard because you

want to discipline so they eat but yet you wonder at what times they

are just playing a game with us and what times they really can't eat

and can't help gagging.

If Mark doesn't like something he will gag and lot's of times make

himself throw up. gets so mad but I'm sure Mark can't help

it. And there are other times Mark just doesn't want to eat what we

give him because he wants to see what he can get away with.

So where does that leave us, so get into agruements. It sucks. I'm

so sorry and I wish I would have something more helpful to say but I

don't. All I can say is I understand!

Hugs,

Tina W.

[Guest guest]

That's what I do when I'm arguing or mad at someone. Especially if I

think I will say something I will regret if I talk face to face with

them......But it usually takes me rewriting the letter a few times.

The first couple of time I say too mean of things, I quess usually

venting to myself. After rereading it I usually calm down and write

a more sensible letter. But that's just me.

Tina W.

why not write him a letter? Then you can take

> your time to make sure you state it write and that you remember

everything

> you want to say to him.

> Just a thought.

> Sue