I hate this! I hate all of this!

[Guest guest]

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Jacquie, Just to clarify...I absolutely believe you should have

stepped in and stood up for your son. I didn't separate that part

out and I should have. What I meant by the 'introspection' had to do

with marriage in general. Sounds like you have good assessment

of the situation. Again, hope it resolves quickly. Thanks for not

being mad about that statement. I think you knew I wasn't saying to

blame yourself.

> Jeff does not blame me for the boys autism. He never has. He left

because I am sure he thought he might do something stupid that he

would regret if he stayed. He does have a very bad temper. In the end

it was for the best that he left to cool off. Staying would have made

things worse. I dont know if I can talk to him about anything right

now. Probably not. I know I did aggrivate him. I did not back down at

all when I told him I thought he was being too hard on Greggory. I

knew he was getting very upset and I keep telling him I thought he

was wrong. I guess that was too much for him. I sort of knew it was

while I was doing it. But there was a part of me that felt I just had

to say these things. But really the fight wasnt over eating the

dinner. The fight was about his feeling I dont trust him with the

kids and that he feels I am no what I really want. That he isnt

perfect or good enough. This is a liong standing fight. ugh. You

didnt offend me. Thanks for thinking of me.

> Jacquie H

>

>

> I'm sorry that all of this is happening. Does he honestly think

you

> are to blame for the children's illness? Does he think that by

> running away that it's all going to go away, that his

> responsibilities will be lightened? Is there a way you could

> approach him with these things? I hate to say this, and I don't

know

> how to say it tactfully, but I'm sure going to try, and I

apologize

> in advance if it comes out wrong. Is there anything about

yourself

> that might be aggravating the situation? I know that when I went

> through my divorce I had to do a LOT of introspection. We tend

to

> get so wrapped up in this whole mess that we lose ourselves or

become

> oblivious to what is going on with others. The breakdown in

> communication here is a huge problem. You must see if there is

> something that he sees that you don't, and address it honestly.

> I believe he's probably frustrated and doesn't know how to handle

> it. I wish you the best and I hope I didn't offend you.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Jacquie:

I feel so badly for you .... Lately I've been thinking a lot about how much

I wish there were therapists who specialize in families with special needs

children. It is such an adjustment for everyone, and as we all know, men

are not always adept at emoting. So many times I have wished I could talk

to a mental health professional who really understood autism and what it

means for a family. Just like they have therapists who specialize in

divorce or bereavement. I guess that's why we all come here.

I would never want to presume anything about your marital situation. But I

hope that hearts can be opened and understandings reached. Sometimes I

think the blessing of ASD is that it forces us to become our best, most

compassionate, most zen, strongest selves. But it can be a rocky and

painful process. I hope this will be the silver lining for you and your

family.

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

I am venting rather loudly and pathetically right now. Skip if you want. Jeff

and I got into a fight. We argue a good deal from time to time(as we are both

stubborn) but this was a fight. I had greggory eating Mac N cheese with us

tonight. Of course Jeff decided Greggory must eat a bowlful. ugh. A child who

gags on everything and likes only 10 foods maybe. Anyway, Greggory gagged

through it and cried and Jeff isisted he still eat it. I sat and watched. I was

wishing it would just be over. Then Yessenia wakes up so I go to get her and I

find that Jeff has sent Greggory upstairs and Greggory is sobbing. He vomited

from gagging and Jeff is furious. I tell Greggory to wash up and go to bed and

to stop crying. I then go downstairs and tell Jeff I think he is expecting too

much we get into a big arguement. This then turns ugly by his yelling at me and

telling me that I dont think Jeff ever does anything right and that I thinik he

doesnt know how to take care of the kids. I do think I know better most times. I

do interfere when I shouldnt. But this wasnt like that. Not this time. Then he

says the last time I freaked out was when he grabbed Greggory on the bed and

then I told him no it was when he hit Greggory at his Grandmother's. That was

it. He got so angry and hurt I guess. he said I couldnt trust him with his own

children. He yelled that he hated me. He wanted a divorce. he didnt need this

stress anymore. He went to make a motion to hit me but didnt. He stopped

himself. I dont know if he would have. He left. I hate this crap! I hate the

stress we feel. I hate that eating a fucking dsinner turns into this! Why cant

my life be fucking normal?!

Jacquie H

[Guest guest]

Oh ick, ick, ick. I'm sorry. What a yucky day. I hope he comes to

his senses quickly.

[Guest guest]

> I am venting rather loudly and pathetically right now. Skip if you want.

Jeff and I got into a fight. We argue a good deal from time to time(as we

are both stubborn) but this was a fight. I had greggory eating Mac N cheese

with us tonight. Of course Jeff decided Greggory must eat a bowlful. ugh. A

child who gags on everything and likes only 10 foods maybe. Anyway, Greggory

gagged through it and cried and Jeff isisted he still eat it. I sat and

watched. I was wishing it would just be over.

Oh, dear, forcing food issues is really NOT a good idea, at least not like

that. But you obviously know that.

Now I have been very frustrated with a child who would not eat something

(usually something that I have prepared specially for that child, grrrr) and

I do actually understand how Jeff feels.

But I would have hoped that he would have calmed down and realized that

forcing food is not a good way to go. Especially not to the point of making

Greggory vomit (I do not believe that the vomiting was planned). I don't

like the fact that he was still mad hours later. Lou used to do that so

probably that is why it bugs me so much (and also I am the kind of person

who totally forgets she was mad about five seconds later, often forgetting

any punishments doled out until the kid comes in and argues about it and

then reminds me, LOL)

Then Yessenia wakes up so I go to get her and I find that Jeff has sent

Greggory upstairs and Greggory is sobbing. He vomited from gagging and Jeff

is furious. I tell Greggory to wash up and go to bed and to stop crying. I

then go downstairs and tell Jeff I think he is expecting too much we get

into a big arguement. This then turns ugly by his yelling at me and telling

me that I dont think Jeff ever does anything right and that I thinik he

doesnt know how to take care of the kids. I do think I know better most

times.

Most mothers do but only because they are with the kids more. Obviously the

more you are with someone the better you are able to figure them out.

I do interfere when I shouldnt. But this wasnt like that. Not this time.

Then he says the last time I freaked out was when he grabbed Greggory on the

bed and then I told him no it was when he hit Greggory at his Grandmother's.

That was it. He got so angry and hurt I guess. he said I couldnt trust him

with his own children.

He does sound as if he has some problems with the kids. I never liked

leaving my children with Lou because I knew he was prone to hit or yell or

punish inappropriately. He said that I was too attached to the kids, but if

I had married a man that I could trust, I would have loved to get out and do

things knowing that they were safe with their father.

He yelled that he hated me. He wanted a divorce. he didnt need this stress

anymore. He went to make a motion to hit me but didnt. He stopped himself. I

dont know if he would have.

I am glad that he had that much control.

He left. I hate this crap! I hate the stress we feel. I hate that eating a

fucking dsinner turns into this! Why cant my life be fucking normal?!

Sorry, Jacquie, so very sorry.

Salli

[Guest guest]

think he just wanted me to have to take him. Which of course Jeff didnt tell

me I was going to have to do and yessenia and alec were not dressed at

7:45am when Greggory was supposed to leave and jeff did. ugh. So Greggory

was late. I think that was directed towards me though. Bleech!

Jacquie:

It sounds to me as if it is directed at you, very definitely so.

Salli

[Guest guest]

(((((((( Jacquie H )))))))))))))))

Wish I could say something to make it better. My husband and I have

a fight like that about twice a year. I know what you are going thru.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

oh jacquie! did he come home yet? i don't know jeff but it sounds like he is

having alot of trouble dealing with this diagnosis and that is probably the root

of his anger. he can't bully greggory into normalcy. i think jeff needs to

talk to someone other than you about what is going on. if he feels he is being

an inadequate parent and it seems you are managing well he is going to resent

you no doubt. is there someone else he could talk to? take care. (((jacquie)))

michelle mg

[Guest guest]

I hate the stress we feel. I hate that eating a fucking dsinner

turns into this! Why cant my life be fucking normal?!

> Jacquie H

((((((((Jacquie))))))))

Im so sorry you have to go thru all

of this. I know " exactly " what your

going thru.(thats why I left)...I

really hope he calmed down so you can

talk it out. From other things you have

said about Jeff, he sounds like a reasonable

man..Its too bad we have to take out our

anger and stress, on the ones who know us

and love us the most and understand that

that you 'both' are going thru the same

thing. I really feel for you

jacquie...

Now, go and kick his butt....

nancy

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I really have no idea at this point what is going on. He didnt take

Greggory to school this morning like he always does.

Jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Oh ick, ick, ick. I'm sorry. What a yucky day. I hope he comes to

his senses quickly.

[Guest guest]

Thanks. We have had nasty fights before. But this one left me with a holllow

feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

(((((((( Jacquie H )))))))))))))))

Wish I could say something to make it better. My husband and I have

a fight like that about twice a year. I know what you are going thru.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

He came home at midnight after we were all asleep. The door was chained so i had

to wake up and unlock it. He didn't say a word to me and he didnt even look at

me although I really didnt want him to. He went upstairs to get a pillow and his

alarm clock and then downstairs to the sofa. Then back upstairs to try and find

his ambien to help him sleep. Which he couldnt find and then heasked me where it

was. I went downstairs to get it and he got irritated and I went back to bed. I

dont know what is going on. Last night he said he wanted a divorce and that he

was done and so I don't know. I think Jeff sometimes forgets that Greggory still

isnt normal more than he wants him to be normal, if you know what I mean. He was

treating him just as he would any other child. Problem is I still think Greggory

is far from normal.. I wish he could talk to someone but we are all we've got.

Too much stress.

Jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

oh jacquie! did he come home yet? i don't know jeff but it sounds like he is

having alot of trouble dealing with this diagnosis and that is probably the root

of his anger. he can't bully greggory into normalcy. i think jeff needs to

talk to someone other than you about what is going on. if he feels he is being

an inadequate parent and it seems you are managing well he is going to resent

you no doubt. is there someone else he could talk to? take care. (((jacquie)))

michelle mg

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Things aren't loud but the tension is thick here. We arent speaking. I

dont know what he is thinking right now. Jeff really is a good father and

husband. But I think there has been alot of extra stress lately. I dont want to

feel like this. I think what hurts the most is that he said he hates me. It

really hurt.

Jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

I hate the stress we feel. I hate that eating a fucking dsinner

turns into this! Why cant my life be fucking normal?!

> Jacquie H

((((((((Jacquie))))))))

Im so sorry you have to go thru all

of this. I know " exactly " what your

going thru.(thats why I left)...I

really hope he calmed down so you can

talk it out. From other things you have

said about Jeff, he sounds like a reasonable

man..Its too bad we have to take out our

anger and stress, on the ones who know us

and love us the most and understand that

that you 'both' are going thru the same

thing. I really feel for you

jacquie...

Now, go and kick his butt....

nancy

[Guest guest]

What an ugly night.

It was.

I may be waaay off base here, but -- do you think jeff is worried about

Yessenia?

He probably is worried about her. I am.

See, the reason I ask is that Marc used to stage scenes like Jeff

did last night, and it was like he thought he could FORCE to be normal,

even for a few moments, but as time passed he stopped because it was clear

that he couldn't.

Might be. I think Jeff sometimes forgets that Greggopry isnt normal. Greggory

does so weel but he still does have good number of issues.

But I'm thinking that maybe if Jeff is worried about Yessenia, he might be

AGAIN trying to FORCE Greggory to be normal as a sort

of mental and emotional reassurance that Yessenia will be normal too.

This could be true. Of course he has never mentioned being worried about

Yessenia. But that means nothing.

Like I said, I may be way off base, but it sounds like Jeff is angry and

frustrated and scared.

I know he is angry and frustrated. I think he may be scared. I know he is mad

at me. I hate feeling like I am the reason he feels this way. I dont know how to

make him feel like I do think he is a good father. But I do spend more time with

the kids because I stay home with them. I do think I know better sometimes just

because of my time with them. ugh. He wont even look at me. I think this is one

of the worst fights we have ever had.

It's NOT fair or acceptable that he should take that out on you or on

Greggory.

No it isnt.

Jacquie H

[Guest guest]

Oh, Jacquie. I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry.

What the **** does it matter how much Greggory eats? Why the hell would

Jeff get angry at Greggory for throwing up? I'm sure G didn't WANT to.

Good Lord.

It sounds like it may be time for some counseling, either for Jeff alone to

work through his childhood issues and get some help with appropriate

expectations, or for both of you to work on coming to agreements about these

kinds of things -- what's expected of the kids, how they are disciplined,

etc.

I hope I'm not out of line here.

{{{{{Jacquie}}}}}

Prayers.

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sara. You arent out of line. Jeff got mad at Greggory for vomiting

because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on purpose so he wouldnt have

to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this time. Not impossible but I dont believe

it.

I think counseling would or could help. I am not sure Jeff is open to it. And to

be honest he said he was done with this and he wants a divorce so maybe it

doesnt matter. I cant even say if you dont get counseling I will have to leave.

ugh.

Thanks Sara!

Jacquie H

RE: I hate this! I hate all of this!

Oh, Jacquie. I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry.

What the **** does it matter how much Greggory eats? Why the hell would

Jeff get angry at Greggory for throwing up? I'm sure G didn't WANT to.

Good Lord.

It sounds like it may be time for some counseling, either for Jeff alone to

work through his childhood issues and get some help with appropriate

expectations, or for both of you to work on coming to agreements about these

kinds of things -- what's expected of the kids, how they are disciplined,

etc.

I hope I'm not out of line here.

{{{{{Jacquie}}}}}

Prayers.

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> What an ugly night.

>

> It was.

I'm sorry to hear things are so rough right now.

The worst fight Mike and I had was over the same thing. He just

couldn't accept that the kids would never be " normal " and he was

feeling a lot of guilt over 's seizures. He had similar seizures

until he was 8. I've tried and tried to tell him that I don't blame

him, there's nothing we could do about it other than to not have

children in the beginning.

I think he's finally realized I don't expect him to " fix " the kids

either. This has been very hard for him because he didn't want to

admit there was a problem because it was a problem he couldn't fix.

(

I hope you're able to work things out soon.

Tina

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> > Thanks Sara. You arent out of line. Jeff got mad at Greggory

for

> vomiting because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on

purpose so he wouldnt have to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this

time. Not impossible but I dont believe it.

> >

>

> I don't think our kids are capable of such a nasty and icky and

painful manipulation.

>

I don't think a lot of NT kids are capable of such a reaction. I did

the same thing at 5 or 6 when my mother forced me to eat liver. *gag*

I can't hardly stand to be in the same house when it's cooking, it

just rolls my stomach.

Poor . (

Tina

[Guest guest]

> Thanks Sara. You arent out of line. Jeff got mad at Greggory for

vomiting because he honestly beleives that Greggory did it on purpose so he

wouldnt have to eat it. ugh. I just dont agree this time. Not impossible but

I dont believe it.

>

I don't think our kids are capable of such a nasty and icky and painful

manipulation.

I dont know if they are or they arent but I just dont think that is what

Greggory was doing. It really isnt his style. Maybe Alec's but not Greggory's.

> I think counseling would or could help. I am not sure Jeff is open to it.

And to be honest he said he was done with this and he wants a divorce so

maybe it doesnt matter. I cant even say if you dont get counseling I will

have to leave. ugh.

>

My guts wants to believe that he said that because he wanted to be hurtful,

not because that's what he wants.

I hope so. I love Jeff more than anyone. I truly believe that he loves me. I

just am not sure if what he is feeling is just too much to take anymoe. It could

be that he is exhausted and needs out.

Seems to me like he's really lashing out. He's acting like someone who's

got a lot of pain and anger and wants to kick out and inflict it on someone

else, like a dog who'se been run over by a car and tries to bite your hand

off even though he loves you.

I know. It feels like it.

How are you going to take the next step? Are you planning on playing the

game his way and see what happens, or just trying to wait him out, or will

you sit him down and try to talk? What do you plan on doing when he gets

home from work today?

I really am not sure. So far we arent talking. I dont guess we will today. If

I try and talk to him before he is ready he will just shut me out and maybe

leave again. I dont know. But I cant live like this for too long. I am guessing

he will work late and them close himself up in his room. But I really cant tell.

Is there ANYONE who can take the kids so it's justthe two of you when he

gets home?

Not really. I mean I guess I could get someone but asince I am nursing

Yessenia I would have to keep her. And if the kids arent home he might leave.

And even if he doesnt I think anyone I would get to watch the kids would be more

of a pain than anything. It would either be my mom or his and I dont want to

talk to claudia about this and made the mistake of talking to my mom last night.

ugh. All she told me was that Jeff needed to find god. How the fuck is that

going to help me right now? Jeff isnt going to, doesnt want to. I hate this!

Jacquie H

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I am tired of the fighting just like Jeff. But I dont want to give up. I

dont know if Jeff still feels like he should fix the kids. Maybe he still does.

I do think it can be worse with Greggory because Greggory is really very close

to being " normal " and things like eating only a few foods seem to hold him back.

I hate this. Thanks.

jacquie H

Re: I hate this! I hate all of this!

>

>

>

> What an ugly night.

>

> It was.

I'm sorry to hear things are so rough right now.

The worst fight Mike and I had was over the same thing. He just

couldn't accept that the kids would never be " normal " and he was

feeling a lot of guilt over 's seizures. He had similar seizures

until he was 8. I've tried and tried to tell him that I don't blame

him, there's nothing we could do about it other than to not have

children in the beginning.

I think he's finally realized I don't expect him to " fix " the kids

either. This has been very hard for him because he didn't want to

admit there was a problem because it was a problem he couldn't fix.

(

I hope you're able to work things out soon.

Tina

[Guest guest]

Ewwwww! I feel for you. Liver is just gross! I know I have gotten sick many

times from things my mom made me eat.

Jacquie H

I don't think a lot of NT kids are capable of such a reaction. I did

the same thing at 5 or 6 when my mother forced me to eat liver. *gag*

I can't hardly stand to be in the same house when it's cooking, it

just rolls my stomach.

Poor . (

Tina

[Guest guest]

I am sorry this crap is happening. I think I would wait a little and

then you might try to talk to him and work things out. It looks like

there is more than just this fight to sort out. Sometimes men have a

hard time expressing themselves and what is bothering them jumps out as

some other thing happens. Just a thought. I could be totally wrong.

{{{{{{{{{{{Jacquie H}}}}}}}}}}}}

Cecilia, from Peru (mom to Dessiree 3½ yo, no dx yet some autistic

traits)

Lovely husband

-----Mensaje original-----

De: Jacquie

Enviado el: Miércoles, 05 de Febrero de 2003 12:22 a.m.

Para: parenting_autism

Asunto: I hate this! I hate all of this!

I am venting rather loudly and pathetically right now. Skip if you want.

Jeff and I got into a fight. We argue a good deal from time to time(as

we are both stubborn) but this was a fight. I had greggory eating Mac N

cheese with us tonight. Of course Jeff decided Greggory must eat a

bowlful. ugh. A child who gags on everything and likes only 10 foods

maybe. Anyway, Greggory gagged through it and cried and Jeff isisted he

still eat it. I sat and watched. I was wishing it would just be over.

Then Yessenia wakes up so I go to get her and I find that Jeff has sent

Greggory upstairs and Greggory is sobbing. He vomited from gagging and

Jeff is furious. I tell Greggory to wash up and go to bed and to stop

crying. I then go downstairs and tell Jeff I think he is expecting too

much we get into a big arguement. This then turns ugly by his yelling at

me and telling me that I dont think Jeff ever does anything right and

that I thinik he doesnt know how to take care of the kids. I do think I

know better most times. I do interfere when I shouldnt. But this wasnt

like that. Not this time. Then he says the last time I freaked out was

when he grabbed Greggory on the bed and then I told him no it was when

he hit Greggory at his Grandmother's. That was it. He got so angry and

hurt I guess. he said I couldnt trust him with his own children. He

yelled that he hated me. He wanted a divorce. he didnt need this stress

anymore. He went to make a motion to hit me but didnt. He stopped

himself. I dont know if he would have. He left. I hate this crap! I hate

the stress we feel. I hate that eating a fucking dsinner turns into

this! Why cant my life be fucking normal?!

Jacquie H

[Guest guest]

> Thanks. I am tired of the fighting just like Jeff. But I dont want

to give up. I dont know if Jeff still feels like he should fix the

kids. Maybe he still does. I do think it can be worse with Greggory

because Greggory is really very close to being " normal " and things

like eating only a few foods seem to hold him back. I hate this.

Thanks.

>

Everyone deals with it differently so I could be off base on

the " fix " issue. I just know how Mike is and that he was very hard on

until recently and I think it's for the reasons you mention

with Greggory...he's so close to being " normal " and a lot of what

does looks like manipulation and fit pitching.

I didn't expect any response from Mike, he rarely talks about the

kids and I've given up trying for the most part, but I told him about

the book I was reading and how it said that if you've already been

working really hard on discipline and it's not working, why not put

that energy into something that will work. Mike never did comment,

but he has been a lot more understanding with lately.

I hope Jeff calms down enough to talk about it this evening.

(((((hugs))))))

Tina

[Guest guest]

Jacquie,

So sorry it turned into such an awful argument. You were right though. He

shouldn't force the kids into eating something. The oral sensory stuff is

not in Greggory's control, and he shouldn't be mad at Greggory for vomiting,

he should be mad at himself for making his son do that!!

I have a habit of running interference for the boys with Mark too. We do

know our kids better than our spouses and they do tend to overdo things when

it comes to the kids.

Maybe you could try feeding the boys before you and Jeff sit down to eat?

Then you could avoid fighting over the kids?

Hope things are better for you soon.

Sue

[Guest guest]

> Thanks. I am tired of the fighting just like Jeff. But I dont want

to give up. I dont know if Jeff still feels like he should fix the

kids. Maybe he still does. I do think it can be worse with Greggory

because Greggory is really very close to being " normal " and things

like eating only a few foods seem to hold him back. I hate this.

Thanks.

>

I've found that most men feel they must fix things. Even if you're just venting,

they look for a solution, rather than just listening, they feel as if you're

complaining. He probably thinks he needs to fix Greggory, and is frustrated that

he can't. I'm sure that little things they do feel manipulative, but jeez, they

aren't. In this case, I don't think that Greggory was testing, I mean, if there

are only a few foods he'll eat *always* then that's the way it is. Somehow, Jeff

needs to understand, Greggory isn't there for you nor him to fix, especially in

a coercise way. Even with NT kids coercise rarely works and breeds anger.

The good thing is that Jeff came back, even though you're not speaking, he did

come back. I know what I would do but my relationship is a whole other ball of

wax and I don't think it would work for you. You know Jeff, give him whatever

time he needs to discuss this with him. I'm sure he is hurt and may even feel

guilt because of Greggory. Sigh, it's tough, but hang in there.

debbi