Re: preschool advice

[Guest guest]

Why not do both. . . preschool disabled will give her services (speech, ot,

physical therapy) and regular preschool will allow her to test the waters of

a regular school. A regular preschool is 2x a week and a preschool disabled

program may be 5 mornings or 5 afternoons (each district is different). I

would suggest visiting both classrooms while in school so that you have an

idea how the class is run and the ratio of teacher/student/aides, etc.

SEIT? What does it stand for?

Joanne

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My daughter has had her SEIT for the past two years in Preschool for 3

hours a week, and 5-6 hours of other therapies per week as well. She can say

only a few words and uses signs (not easy to interpret due to fine motor delays)

and a Dynavox that she got last November to communicate. Her two years of

Preschool have been wonderful and she has loved it. All the kids love her and

the teachers have been great at adapting everything for her. She is the only

child in her class with a noticeable disability. (She also walks with a walker.)

I think that if the teachers are willing to work with your child, she

could do very well in a regular PreK. I have friends who have placed their kids

in Special Ed classes and had less success than we have. If your daughter

already has friends there, she may adjust very quickly and feel comfortable

enough to work on her speech with them. Hope this is helpful.

nymommy2hailey <abellovin@...> wrote:

Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

Thanks for the help...

Amy

[Guest guest]

My son will be starting " regular " preschool in Sept (he's 24 mos now).

It will be only 2 mornings a week. I really don't know what to expect

and am worried about the teachers not understanding him (they don't

sign there). But his SLP suggested it thinking it would help him to be

around other kids who are talking (we do playdates and groups now, but

this would be more consistent, and of course, I won't be there). The

school looks great and the director told me they " can accommodate

special needs children " (whatever that means). She also said that most

of the kids don't talk much till for the first month or so because they

kind of have culture shock. I don't know of any " special " preschools

where I live so I never even considered it. By the way, my son really

only just started babbling and says only 3 words, so I would think your

daughter would have fewer issues because at least she has such a large

vocabulary. I just read a post from Tara (a SLP) who suggested sending

hard-to-understand kids to school with pictures to help them

communicate. You might want to read that. Good luck. I'd be

interested to compare notes with you when our kids start school.

>

> Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

> preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

> 2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

> their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

> she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

> as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

> children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

> other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

> of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

>

> Thanks for the help...

> Amy

>

[Guest guest]

My son is in a regular ed private preschool and is thriving! Our special

ed option seemed far too restrictive for him and his therapists and I were

concerned that the other children's needs (emotional and behavioral) were

more severe than his. My son doesn't speak up (or act up) when he needs

something, he's content to play quietly and we feared that is all he would

do! In his reg ed preschool he is right in the thick socially, has

friends, interacts and the teacher to student ratio is lower than the

public pre-K so he gets lots of personal attention! It is a wonderful

environment. Sure he isn't being taught his ABCs and 123s (we do some at

home) but he is growing in confidence and is happy! He (finally) gets two

hours of outreach speech therapy in classroom which I don't feel helps him

anyway. We are continuing with his private therapy which does help him.

Even though his preschool is a regular ed school we have lots of special

needs kids enrolled. My son goes two mornings per week with the " younger "

kids. Other kids go 3 mornings a week and a few go 5 mornings a

week. There are a few special needs kids in each class and all have

therapists with them anywhere from two hours a week like my son to full

time in the case of a little girl with autism who just turned 3. One

reason this works so well at our school is because it is a parent

co-op. There is a different parent in class each day so the kids quickly

learn to accept and play with any visitor that comes in. The therapists of

all kinds are loved by all the children! The focus of the therapist is

most definitely on the child she is servicing, but the therapy often

includes the other kids as peer models. The school's " curriculum " is not

an academic one. Our children never come home with a worksheet and are

never all sat down together to work on ABC's or 123's, but they play and

explore and are encouraged and do learn the pre-academic skills needed for

K. I supplement at home as my child doesn't just " pick-up " this stuff. He

never struggles or feels behind because socially he isn't - he fits right

in and plays, explores, learns and has fun!

Miche

At 12:04 PM 5/6/2006, you wrote:

>Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

>preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

>2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

>their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

>she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

>as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

>children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

>other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

>of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

>

>Thanks for the help...

>Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, that's a good thought. SIET stands for special ed. itenerent teacher.

A teacher that would go with her to her reg. ed. program.

RE: [ ] preschool advice

Why not do both. . . preschool disabled will give her services (speech, ot,

physical therapy) and regular preschool will allow her to test the waters of

a regular school. A regular preschool is 2x a week and a preschool disabled

program may be 5 mornings or 5 afternoons (each district is different). I

would suggest visiting both classrooms while in school so that you have an

idea how the class is run and the ratio of teacher/student/aides, etc.

SEIT? What does it stand for?

Joanne

[Guest guest]

My biggest fear for her, is that the teachers will not understand her and she

won't be able to participate in things that she really wants to. Although her

vocab. is large, it's so unclear that it sounds like her own language. I did

read on a website, it's a good idea to take pictures of everything in the

classroom (all the centers and activities) and when she gets home from school,

she can try and " talk " about her day by pointing to the activities that she

participated in.

[ ] Re: preschool advice

My son will be starting " regular " preschool in Sept (he's 24 mos now).

It will be only 2 mornings a week. I really don't know what to expect

and am worried about the teachers not understanding him (they don't

sign there). But his SLP suggested it thinking it would help him to be

around other kids who are talking (we do playdates and groups now, but

this would be more consistent, and of course, I won't be there). The

school looks great and the director told me they " can accommodate

special needs children " (whatever that means). She also said that most

of the kids don't talk much till for the first month or so because they

kind of have culture shock. I don't know of any " special " preschools

where I live so I never even considered it. By the way, my son really

only just started babbling and says only 3 words, so I would think your

daughter would have fewer issues because at least she has such a large

vocabulary. I just read a post from Tara (a SLP) who suggested sending

hard-to-understand kids to school with pictures to help them

communicate. You might want to read that. Good luck. I'd be

interested to compare notes with you when our kids start school.

>

> Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

> preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

> 2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

> their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

> she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

> as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

> children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

> other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

> of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

>

> Thanks for the help...

> Amy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all!

In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest will

work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech impaired

child and throwing them into mainstream kindergarten in hopes it

will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. " from

http://www.wildlife-international.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?ID=12\

1

As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I have

done it both ways with two different children and for two different

reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if I

could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th they

are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in preschool

is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner was

very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups now

and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also plays

well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends on

the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are social

butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

goal to set.

How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

(too)

If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say in

most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The best

chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical years

for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

is socially will be who they are down the road.

Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of a

simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups of

children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

delays at that age and very little frustration about not

communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about the

same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never forget

sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6 month

delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

be permanent or not. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

(see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal apraxia,

sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with other

children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

ability was above average while his expressive ability was way below

average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

much as he wanted. Tanner's page

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

ability is higher)

Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

make the right one on this.

No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if you

have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal receptive

ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem is

most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in kindergarten

at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down at

the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about children

as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each one

of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

just for the placement but for all the services that would be

appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program is

not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

district placement " where the public school pays to send your child

to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in New

Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that school

went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

he went to. For him.

The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed as

quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

" There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in speech

and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

read The Late Talker?) "

<<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

Written By

[Guest guest]

It sounds like a great idea, and if you hang out with her the first

day, you could take pics of everything while introducing them to

her, then she could have one set at school to show her teacher ( " I

want to play with the toy kitchen " ) and one set to show you when she

gets home ( " I played with the toy kitchen today! " ). Do you think

the teachers will be supportive of that? I haven't talked to my

son's future teacher about it yet.

> >

> > Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

> > preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular "

preschool

> > 2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child

has had

> > their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and

developmentally

> > she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am

torn

> > as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

> > children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But

on the

> > other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever

heard

> > of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

> >

> > Thanks for the help...

> > Amy

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" (taking a severely speech impaired

> child and throwing them into mainstream kindergarten in hopes it

> will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed) "

Whoops!! Meant to say preschool there not kindergarten! Yes you

want mainstream kindergarten even if most think it won't work. At

least try it so you have the chance to prove " them " wrong. That's

what happened for us with our son Tanner. But in regards to

preschool...I stand by what I say below.

>

> Hi all!

>

> In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest

will

> work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech

impaired

> child and throwing them into mainstream kindergarten in hopes it

> will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

>

> In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

> from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. "

from

> http://www.wildlife-

international.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?ID=121

>

> As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I

have

> done it both ways with two different children and for two

different

> reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if

I

> could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

> been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th

they

> are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in

preschool

> is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner

was

> very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

> years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups

now

> and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also

plays

> well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends

on

> the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

> very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are

social

> butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

> goal to set.

>

> How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

> (too)

>

> If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say

in

> most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The

best

> chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

> kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical

years

> for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

> preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

> is socially will be who they are down the road.

>

> Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of

a

> simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

> with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups

of

> children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

> delays at that age and very little frustration about not

> communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about

the

> same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

> doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never

forget

> sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

> face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6

month

> delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

> from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

> be permanent or not. "

>

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

> (see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

> better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

> make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

>

> On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal

apraxia,

> sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

> preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with

other

> children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

> with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

> ability was above average while his expressive ability was way

below

> average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

> much as he wanted. Tanner's page

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

>

> Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

> park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

> Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

> he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

> ability is higher)

>

> Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

> make the right one on this.

>

> No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

> eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if

you

> have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal

receptive

> ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

> normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

> them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

> for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

> aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem

is

> most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

> high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

> never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in

kindergarten

> at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

> Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

> looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down

at

> the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

> proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

>

> The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

> with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

> for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about

children

> as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

>

> As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each

one

> of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

> throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

> just for the placement but for all the services that would be

> appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program

is

> not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

> district placement " where the public school pays to send your

child

> to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

> Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

> based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in

New

> Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that

school

> went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

> good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

> he went to. For him.

>

> The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

> will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed

as

> quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

>

> There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

>

> " There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in

speech

> and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

> Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

> overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

> son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

> child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

> an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

> other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

> just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

> not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

> Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

> it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

> them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

> read The Late Talker?) "

> <<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

>

> Written By

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all that informative info, . It's comforting to hear from

someone who is ahead of me and who can guide me through it all. Anyway, my

daughter Hailey is socially appropriate for her age, in small groups. Big

groups overwhlem her and take her a long time to participate. She has a group

ofg friends that she is soooo very comfortable with, nevr a hesitation to go and

play, that is why i wanted to keep her in a preschool with them (regular ed.).

Her receptive skills are very high, she wants to try and do everything she can.

But she does have a severe speech impairment. Terrible articulation causes her

to be unintelligible. I was hoping to ask the district if they can send in a

special ed. teacher with her into her preschool program, so that way she has the

support throughout the day and the teachers in the classroom had the support on

how to work with hailey. Have you ever heard of that situation taking place? I

absolutely agree that I want to do whatever i can now in the preschool years, so

by the time she enters the public school system in kindergrten, hopefully she

will be fully mainstreamed there. These decisions are so hard to make. Another

question, have you ever worked with the Kaufman speek praxis kit and have you

ever heard of asking the district to pay for something like that if it was

beneficial to my child?

Thanks for your support,

Amy

[ ] Re: preschool advice

Hi all!

In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest will

work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech impaired

child and throwing them into mainstream kindergarten in hopes it

will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. " from

http://www.wildlife-international.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?ID=1

As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I have

done it both ways with two different children and for two different

reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if I

could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th they

are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in preschool

is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner was

very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups now

and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also plays

well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends on

the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are social

butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

goal to set.

How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

(too)

If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say in

most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The best

chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical years

for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

is socially will be who they are down the road.

Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of a

simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups of

children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

delays at that age and very little frustration about not

communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about the

same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never forget

sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6 month

delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

be permanent or not. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

(see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal apraxia,

sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with other

children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

ability was above average while his expressive ability was way below

average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

much as he wanted. Tanner's page

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

ability is higher)

Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

make the right one on this.

No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if you

have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal receptive

ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem is

most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in kindergarten

at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down at

the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about children

as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each one

of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

just for the placement but for all the services that would be

appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program is

not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

district placement " where the public school pays to send your child

to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in New

Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that school

went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

he went to. For him.

The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed as

quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

" There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in speech

and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

read The Late Talker?) "

<<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

Written By

[Guest guest]

I am going to contact the school over the summer and see if the teachers can

meet with me, so i can explain to them what apraxia is and how they can make

Hailey's day a little easier. Hopefully they will be receptive to all of that.

[ ] Re: preschool advice

It sounds like a great idea, and if you hang out with her the first

day, you could take pics of everything while introducing them to

her, then she could have one set at school to show her teacher ( " I

want to play with the toy kitchen " ) and one set to show you when she

gets home ( " I played with the toy kitchen today! " ). Do you think

the teachers will be supportive of that? I haven't talked to my

son's future teacher about it yet.

>

> My biggest fear for her, is that the teachers will not understand

her and she won't be able to participate in things that she really

wants to. Although her vocab. is large, it's so unclear that it

sounds like her own language. I did read on a website, it's a good

idea to take pictures of everything in the classroom (all the

centers and activities) and when she gets home from school, she can

try and " talk " about her day by pointing to the activities that she

participated in.

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

That sounds like the exact therapy plan i want for my daughter. A SEIT in the

classroom with her a couple hours a week and then she will get ST 4X, OT 2X and

PT 1X outside of the classroom. I think that might work for her. How did you

approach your district with getting that teacher in her classroom, or was it

their idea?

Amy

Re: [ ] preschool advice

Hi,

My daughter has had her SEIT for the past two years in Preschool for 3

hours a week, and 5-6 hours of other therapies per week as well. She can say

only a few words and uses signs (not easy to interpret due to fine motor delays)

and a Dynavox that she got last November to communicate. Her two years of

Preschool have been wonderful and she has loved it. All the kids love her and

the teachers have been great at adapting everything for her. She is the only

child in her class with a noticeable disability. (She also walks with a walker.)

I think that if the teachers are willing to work with your child, she

could do very well in a regular PreK. I have friends who have placed their kids

in Special Ed classes and had less success than we have. If your daughter

already has friends there, she may adjust very quickly and feel comfortable

enough to work on her speech with them. Hope this is helpful.

nymommy2hailey <abellovin@...> wrote:

Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

Thanks for the help...

Amy

[Guest guest]

I am writing to tell you that I put my daughter into her first preschool class

when she was two. She started August of 2005 and has made progress in her

speech. Socially my daughter was great but now a year later is even more of a

social butterfly even though most of her speech is unintelligible. I got lucky

that her mead teacher has a son with apraxia and she understood what my daughter

required. But I also did an inservice session with all three teachers and my

daughters therapist so that they would know how to communicate with her. We

also had a child in her class who is autistic and had a shadow. The shadow was

great because she did not smother. SHe was there to facilitate transitioning

and to help the child with communication. The shadow turned out to be a great

help to the teachers and the other kids because she worked with them all on how

to be better friends and to help one another.

Preschool is a great place as long as you make sure that the teachers, admin,

you and your therapist are all on the same page with how to help you child be a

more productive child communicatively in school.

Good Luck!

---- nymommy2hailey <abellovin@...> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy!

Just wanted to clarify something -when I said " (taking a severely

speech impaired child and throwing them into mainstream kindergarten

in hopes it will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up

to speed) Meant to say preschool, not kindergarten there.

Not sure if I made it clear that nobody diagnosed or suspected

Tanner of having social problems. Tanner played well with children

once he got to know them. While he was nonverbal, he was painfully

and obviously uncomfortable around groups of children he did not

know..even if he knew some of the children well. For example once

we went to a birthday party over a neighbor's house. Tanner loved

and Shelby, but they had groups of friends there that Tanner

had never met before. All of them were playing and friendly, even

trying to get Tanner to play too, but he just stood over to the side

and watched. If you tried to force him to join them as some did,

that was a bad idea unless you were looking for tears.

He knew the others were having fun but he just was not comfortable

with them. If one or two children came over while he was with one

child he knew, that was OK. Just couldn't be too many new faces,

new talking faces that is.

That is in direct contrast to Dakota who would join into any group

of children if it looked like they were playing.

What's funny is right now as social as Tanner is he is choosing whom

to invite to his birthday party and has it down to 30 kids (yes you

read that right) He is not inviting the girls that " talk too much "

because he will tell you they " don't do anything but stand around

and talk and don't play " He only wants to invite the girls that

play.

Just like what we consider to be 'talking' we have differences in

what we view as aggressive behavior. Again in general keep an eye

open for what is appropriate behavior in those apraxic children

schooled in mainstream preschool. (not kindergarten -like Kathy

just said we are all for mainstream kindergarten) Does anyone in

this group believe it's acceptable for a child to communicate by

hitting? I don't. Both my boys tried it and we never allowed for

that type of " communication "

I have in the archives how we had playdates with children with

apraxia that were in mainstream preschool, and being essentially

nonverbal still they learned to " communicate " with other children by

hitting. Don't hear about this as much with those children in

special needs preschool. This one child who the parent had both in

special needs and regular preschool punched Dakota in the back and

Tanner on the head, made them both cry, and the mother just brushed

it off (or tried to) to my husband and me as " that is just his way

of talking "

I'm sure no matter what those children that hit when younger grow up

fine for the most part. I'm more concerned to be honest with

children like my son Tanner in the preschool years who regress into

themselves when in groups. I'm also thrilled that doing what we did

worked better than we dreamed. But again what each of you do is up

to you and typically parents do know best.

=====

[Guest guest]

HELLO EVERYONE: I AM A 60 YEAR OLD GRANDMOTHER OF 3 YEAR OLD JARED. JARED HAS

VERBAL APRAXIA. I JOINED THIS GROUP TO LEARN ABOUT IT AND HOPEFULLY HELP MY

DAUGHTER THROUGH THIS. I NEVER HEARD THE WORD APRAXIA BEFORE JARED WAS

DIAGNOSED ABOUT 4 MONTHS AGO. I READ EVERY E MAIL THAT COMES THROUGH JUST SO I

CAN LEARN MORE. IT SEEMS THAT THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF YOU OUT THERE STRUGGLING TO

HELP YOUR CHILDREN . I NEVER KNEW ANYONE WHO HAD A CHILD WITH SPEECH PROBLEMS.

IS IT MY IMAGINATION OR IS THERE AN EPIDEMIC GOING ON THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T

KNOW ABOUT. THANKS, BARBARA

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote: Hi all!

In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest will

work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech impaired

child and throwing them into mainstream kindergarten in hopes it

will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. " from

http://www.wildlife-international.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?ID=1

As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I have

done it both ways with two different children and for two different

reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if I

could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th they

are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in preschool

is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner was

very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups now

and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also plays

well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends on

the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are social

butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

goal to set.

How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

(too)

If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say in

most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The best

chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical years

for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

is socially will be who they are down the road.

Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of a

simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups of

children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

delays at that age and very little frustration about not

communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about the

same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never forget

sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6 month

delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

be permanent or not. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

(see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal apraxia,

sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with other

children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

ability was above average while his expressive ability was way below

average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

much as he wanted. Tanner's page

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

ability is higher)

Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

make the right one on this.

No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if you

have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal receptive

ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem is

most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in kindergarten

at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down at

the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about children

as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each one

of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

just for the placement but for all the services that would be

appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program is

not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

district placement " where the public school pays to send your child

to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in New

Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that school

went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

he went to. For him.

The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed as

quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

" There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in speech

and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

read The Late Talker?) "

<<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

Written By

[Guest guest]

Barbara I think people are able to get more information on the

internet and that is why it seems like an epidemic. Information is

very easily obtained. My youngest was born with hypospadia (the

opening on his penis where the urine comes out was not at the tip but

just underneath it). I was told 1 in 4 boys is born with this in the

USA (correctable with surgery) but I had never heard of it until my

fourth was born.

I NEVER KNEW ANYONE WHO HAD A CHILD WITH SPEECH PROBLEMS. IS IT MY

IMAGINATION OR IS THERE AN EPIDEMIC GOING ON THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T

KNOW ABOUT.>

[Guest guest]

Amy,

The school district wanted the majority of her services to be in the

classroom. The theory is that all the therapies are focused on preparing her to

cope in Kindergarten and beyond. PT works on helping her access everything in

the classroom, Speech works on finding ways for her to communicate with

classmates and teachers, etc. I think if the school can work it out with

scheduling therapies at her school, it would be the most helpful for your

daughter.

abellovin@... wrote:

Thanks ,

That sounds like the exact therapy plan i want for my daughter. A SEIT in the

classroom with her a couple hours a week and then she will get ST 4X, OT 2X and

PT 1X outside of the classroom. I think that might work for her. How did you

approach your district with getting that teacher in her classroom, or was it

their idea?

Amy

Re: [ ] preschool advice

Hi,

My daughter has had her SEIT for the past two years in Preschool for 3

hours a week, and 5-6 hours of other therapies per week as well. She can say

only a few words and uses signs (not easy to interpret due to fine motor delays)

and a Dynavox that she got last November to communicate. Her two years of

Preschool have been wonderful and she has loved it. All the kids love her and

the teachers have been great at adapting everything for her. She is the only

child in her class with a noticeable disability. (She also walks with a walker.)

I think that if the teachers are willing to work with your child, she

could do very well in a regular PreK. I have friends who have placed their kids

in Special Ed classes and had less success than we have. If your daughter

already has friends there, she may adjust very quickly and feel comfortable

enough to work on her speech with them. Hope this is helpful.

nymommy2hailey <abellovin@...> wrote:

Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

Thanks for the help...

Amy

[Guest guest]

Amy-

My daughter sounds something like yours. She will be transitioning from

Early Intervention to school district services in September. She has

tested right out of SEIT services but will continue with speech (4 x 30)

and OT (2 x 30) at home. She was not eligible for special ed preschool

(it was considered too " restrictive " ) and we were hesitant to put her in

a " regular " private preschool because of her speech and because she is

so shy, so instead, our school district suggested another related

service - a twice weekly, structured playgroup given through a pediatric

therapeutic agency. The group will have 6 kids, 1 SLP and 1

paraprofessional. This is PERFECT for her! The goal is for us to

place in a private preschool of our choosing when she is 4 (with

continued speech and OT, of course). She will be more ready for this

after another year of continued speech progress and development.

Anyway, sometimes an intermediate option like this, if you can arrange

for it, can be the perfect solution. I hope that helps!

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.0 years, Developmental Verbal Dyspraxia

& , 9 months

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of nymommy2hailey

Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 2:05 PM

Subject: [ ] preschool advice

Hi everyone..I am looking for suggestions for my daughter for

preschool. Next Sept. we have her enrolled in a " regular " preschool

2x a week. Everyone I have come across with an apraxic child has had

their child in a special ed. preschool. Socially and developmentally

she is age appropriate, but her speech is unintelligible. I am torn

as to what to do with her for preschool. She is going with some

children she is friends with and very comfortable around. But on the

other hand, i don't want to see her struggle. Has anyone ever heard

of a SEIT going into her regular ed. preschool with her?

Thanks for the help...

Amy

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

That was very helpful info. I will keep it in mind when i meet with the

district!

Re: [ ] preschool advice

Amy,

The school district wanted the majority of her services to be in the

classroom. The theory is that all the therapies are focused on preparing her to

cope in Kindergarten and beyond. PT works on helping her access everything in

the classroom, Speech works on finding ways for her to communicate with

classmates and teachers, etc. I think if the school can work it out with

scheduling therapies at her school, it would be the most helpful for your

daughter.

[Guest guest]

That program sounds great for your daughter. I will ask my district if any such

program exist. She too is shy and very reserved in large groups. That may be a

good idea to do in addition to her preschool we have her enrolled in. She is

only enrolled in 2 mornings a week right now for sept. I really feel strongly

on this one that a special ed. enviornment will not be the least restrictive

enviornment for Hailey. I think i have to give the mainstream a shot and if it

fails us, we still have another year before kindergarten to change our minds.

Thank you,

Amy (orange, NY)

RE: [ ] preschool advice

Amy-

My daughter sounds something like yours. She will be transitioning from

Early Intervention to school district services in September. She has

tested right out of SEIT services but will continue with speech (4 x 30)

and OT (2 x 30) at home. She was not eligible for special ed preschool

(it was considered too " restrictive " ) and we were hesitant to put her in

a " regular " private preschool because of her speech and because she is

so shy, so instead, our school district suggested another related

service - a twice weekly, structured playgroup given through a pediatric

therapeutic agency. The group will have 6 kids, 1 SLP and 1

paraprofessional. This is PERFECT for her! The goal is for us to

place in a private preschool of our choosing when she is 4 (with

continued speech and OT, of course). She will be more ready for this

after another year of continued speech progress and development.

Anyway, sometimes an intermediate option like this, if you can arrange

for it, can be the perfect solution. I hope that helps!

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.0 years, Developmental Verbal Dyspraxia

& , 9 months

[Guest guest]

The most important thing is to go with your " gut. " :-) It sounds like

you have a good plan!

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.0 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 9.5 months

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

abellovin@...

Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:31 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] preschool advice

That program sounds great for your daughter. I will ask my district if

any such program exist. She too is shy and very reserved in large

groups. That may be a good idea to do in addition to her preschool we

have her enrolled in. She is only enrolled in 2 mornings a week right

now for sept. I really feel strongly on this one that a special ed.

enviornment will not be the least restrictive enviornment for Hailey. I

think i have to give the mainstream a shot and if it fails us, we still

have another year before kindergarten to change our minds.

Thank you,

Amy (orange, NY)

RE: [ ] preschool advice

Amy-

My daughter sounds something like yours. She will be transitioning from

Early Intervention to school district services in September. She has

tested right out of SEIT services but will continue with speech (4 x 30)

and OT (2 x 30) at home. She was not eligible for special ed preschool

(it was considered too " restrictive " ) and we were hesitant to put her in

a " regular " private preschool because of her speech and because she is

so shy, so instead, our school district suggested another related

service - a twice weekly, structured playgroup given through a pediatric

therapeutic agency. The group will have 6 kids, 1 SLP and 1

paraprofessional. This is PERFECT for her! The goal is for us to

place in a private preschool of our choosing when she is 4 (with

continued speech and OT, of course). She will be more ready for this

after another year of continued speech progress and development.

Anyway, sometimes an intermediate option like this, if you can arrange

for it, can be the perfect solution. I hope that helps!

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.0 years, Developmental Verbal Dyspraxia

& , 9 months