Re: Question from a swim instructor for 5YO nonverbal global apraxic child

[Guest guest]

I have a non verbal 2 year old. We started her with swimming lessons

at 9 months-as long as the child can hear you should be fine. The

only question is how will the child communicate with you, you may

want to check with the basics so the child can tell you if they want

to stop, or the basics the child may want to tell you.

A typical 5 year old swimming class in our area, the parents would

not be involved with the swimming coach during a swimming session.

>

> I've already answered (my answer to him below) but thought

> this was a great topic for here too. Any suggestions to pass on to

> which can also be tips for other parents looking into swim

> lessons that I missed?

>

> From: Lines

> help@...

> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:06 PM

> Subject: swimming lessons

>

> Hi, I'm a swimming teacher and a friend of mine has a 5 year old

> that has been diagnosed with global dyspraxia. He say's the child

> cannot speak but is starting to communicate through sign language.

I

> had never heard of this condition and so decided to look it up on

> the internet where I found you. I would like to like to try and fit

> his child in with my swimming lessons and am wondering if there is

> anything different that I need to take into account. The pool is 3

> feet deep all over and there are 6 children to a class. I know all

> children are different and will be affected differently but are

> there any generalizations?

>

> Best wishes

>

> Rob Lines.

>

>

> From: CHERAB [mailto:help@...]

> Sent: 04 September 2006 18:34

> Lines

> Subject: Re: swimming lessons

>

>

>

> Rob first of all this child is extremely fortunate to have you as

an

> instructor! Wow the fact you are taking the time to look into this

> shows what an awesome teacher you are. You have raised an

> important question that most do not. Due to that, would you mind

if

> I question our group so that I can also get input from others?

>

> Outside of that I'd say that you would only need to be aware of

some

> of the basic signs the child knows such as " stop " or " help " or

> even " potty " since that is this child's way to communicate.

>

> Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive or cognitive ability so

> unless this child has a duel diagnosis and his cognitive ability is

> also affected he will appreciate if you speak to him just like you

> do all the other children. My apraxic (which is the same as

> dyspraxic) son Tanner did take swimming lessons when he was still

> essentially nonverbal at 3 and 4 and he just loved it. It was a

way

> for him to be just like the rest of the boys without the need to

> speak. Tanner also had global issues but more mild.

>

> It's not unusual for children with apraxia today to have global

> issues, but it is unusual today for them to still be essentially

non

> verbal at 5. I co authored The Late Talker and am curious if the

> parents know of our group since we have a high success rate.

>

> Hope that helps for now -and let me know if I can ask the group

just

> in case there are things I may have missed.

>

> Best,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a couple ideas of what our 8 year old daughter ran into during her

swimming lessons...She may have been an exception but gets quite

stressed/upset when put on the spot to individually answer questions so

maybe you can ask the group as a whole ....also when asked to do dunkaroos

it took her extra time and individual assistance to show her how to hold on

the wall with her hands while holding her breath and dunking her head as she

was in 6 ft water for some of the class. She gets caught up with 2 or more

steps to get to the final product (motor planning issues) it is frustrating

for her because she is very smart and quick when trying to express her

ideas. But once she is shown she grasps the idea very well. Good luck and I

also applaud your interest in becoming knowledgeable and concerned in

helping all your students achieve and fit in.

's Mom

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of kiddietalk

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:47 PM

Subject: [ ] Question from a swim instructor for 5YO

nonverbal global apraxic child

I've already answered (my answer to him below) but thought

this was a great topic for here too. Any suggestions to pass on to

which can also be tips for other parents looking into swim

lessons that I missed?

From: Lines

helpcherab (DOT) <mailto:help%40cherab.org> org

Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:06 PM

Subject: swimming lessons

Hi, I'm a swimming teacher and a friend of mine has a 5 year old

that has been diagnosed with global dyspraxia. He say's the child

cannot speak but is starting to communicate through sign language. I

had never heard of this condition and so decided to look it up on

the internet where I found you. I would like to like to try and fit

his child in with my swimming lessons and am wondering if there is

anything different that I need to take into account. The pool is 3

feet deep all over and there are 6 children to a class. I know all

children are different and will be affected differently but are

there any generalizations?

Best wishes

Rob Lines.

From: CHERAB [mailto:helpcherab (DOT) <mailto:help%40cherab.org> org]

Sent: 04 September 2006 18:34

Lines

Subject: Re: swimming lessons

Rob first of all this child is extremely fortunate to have you as an

instructor! Wow the fact you are taking the time to look into this

shows what an awesome teacher you are. You have raised an

important question that most do not. Due to that, would you mind if

I question our group so that I can also get input from others?

Outside of that I'd say that you would only need to be aware of some

of the basic signs the child knows such as " stop " or " help " or

even " potty " since that is this child's way to communicate.

Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive or cognitive ability so

unless this child has a duel diagnosis and his cognitive ability is

also affected he will appreciate if you speak to him just like you

do all the other children. My apraxic (which is the same as

dyspraxic) son Tanner did take swimming lessons when he was still

essentially nonverbal at 3 and 4 and he just loved it. It was a way

for him to be just like the rest of the boys without the need to

speak. Tanner also had global issues but more mild.

It's not unusual for children with apraxia today to have global

issues, but it is unusual today for them to still be essentially non

verbal at 5. I co authored The Late Talker and am curious if the

parents know of our group since we have a high success rate.

Hope that helps for now -and let me know if I can ask the group just

in case there are things I may have missed.

Best,

[Guest guest]

I have a non verbal 2 year old. We started her with swimming lessons

at 9 months-as long as the child can hear you should be fine. The

only question is how will the child communicate with you, you may

want to check with the basics so the child can tell you if they want

to stop, or the basics the child may want to tell you.

A typical 5 year old swimming class in our area, the parents would

not be involved with the swimming coach during a swimming session.

>

> I've already answered (my answer to him below) but thought

> this was a great topic for here too. Any suggestions to pass on to

> which can also be tips for other parents looking into swim

> lessons that I missed?

>

> From: Lines

> help@...

> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:06 PM

> Subject: swimming lessons

>

> Hi, I'm a swimming teacher and a friend of mine has a 5 year old

> that has been diagnosed with global dyspraxia. He say's the child

> cannot speak but is starting to communicate through sign language.

I

> had never heard of this condition and so decided to look it up on

> the internet where I found you. I would like to like to try and fit

> his child in with my swimming lessons and am wondering if there is

> anything different that I need to take into account. The pool is 3

> feet deep all over and there are 6 children to a class. I know all

> children are different and will be affected differently but are

> there any generalizations?

>

> Best wishes

>

> Rob Lines.

>

>

> From: CHERAB [mailto:help@...]

> Sent: 04 September 2006 18:34

> Lines

> Subject: Re: swimming lessons

>

>

>

> Rob first of all this child is extremely fortunate to have you as

an

> instructor! Wow the fact you are taking the time to look into this

> shows what an awesome teacher you are. You have raised an

> important question that most do not. Due to that, would you mind

if

> I question our group so that I can also get input from others?

>

> Outside of that I'd say that you would only need to be aware of

some

> of the basic signs the child knows such as " stop " or " help " or

> even " potty " since that is this child's way to communicate.

>

> Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive or cognitive ability so

> unless this child has a duel diagnosis and his cognitive ability is

> also affected he will appreciate if you speak to him just like you

> do all the other children. My apraxic (which is the same as

> dyspraxic) son Tanner did take swimming lessons when he was still

> essentially nonverbal at 3 and 4 and he just loved it. It was a

way

> for him to be just like the rest of the boys without the need to

> speak. Tanner also had global issues but more mild.

>

> It's not unusual for children with apraxia today to have global

> issues, but it is unusual today for them to still be essentially

non

> verbal at 5. I co authored The Late Talker and am curious if the

> parents know of our group since we have a high success rate.

>

> Hope that helps for now -and let me know if I can ask the group

just

> in case there are things I may have missed.

>

> Best,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a couple ideas of what our 8 year old daughter ran into during her

swimming lessons...She may have been an exception but gets quite

stressed/upset when put on the spot to individually answer questions so

maybe you can ask the group as a whole ....also when asked to do dunkaroos

it took her extra time and individual assistance to show her how to hold on

the wall with her hands while holding her breath and dunking her head as she

was in 6 ft water for some of the class. She gets caught up with 2 or more

steps to get to the final product (motor planning issues) it is frustrating

for her because she is very smart and quick when trying to express her

ideas. But once she is shown she grasps the idea very well. Good luck and I

also applaud your interest in becoming knowledgeable and concerned in

helping all your students achieve and fit in.

's Mom

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of kiddietalk

Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:47 PM

Subject: [ ] Question from a swim instructor for 5YO

nonverbal global apraxic child

I've already answered (my answer to him below) but thought

this was a great topic for here too. Any suggestions to pass on to

which can also be tips for other parents looking into swim

lessons that I missed?

From: Lines

helpcherab (DOT) <mailto:help%40cherab.org> org

Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:06 PM

Subject: swimming lessons

Hi, I'm a swimming teacher and a friend of mine has a 5 year old

that has been diagnosed with global dyspraxia. He say's the child

cannot speak but is starting to communicate through sign language. I

had never heard of this condition and so decided to look it up on

the internet where I found you. I would like to like to try and fit

his child in with my swimming lessons and am wondering if there is

anything different that I need to take into account. The pool is 3

feet deep all over and there are 6 children to a class. I know all

children are different and will be affected differently but are

there any generalizations?

Best wishes

Rob Lines.

From: CHERAB [mailto:helpcherab (DOT) <mailto:help%40cherab.org> org]

Sent: 04 September 2006 18:34

Lines

Subject: Re: swimming lessons

Rob first of all this child is extremely fortunate to have you as an

instructor! Wow the fact you are taking the time to look into this

shows what an awesome teacher you are. You have raised an

important question that most do not. Due to that, would you mind if

I question our group so that I can also get input from others?

Outside of that I'd say that you would only need to be aware of some

of the basic signs the child knows such as " stop " or " help " or

even " potty " since that is this child's way to communicate.

Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive or cognitive ability so

unless this child has a duel diagnosis and his cognitive ability is

also affected he will appreciate if you speak to him just like you

do all the other children. My apraxic (which is the same as

dyspraxic) son Tanner did take swimming lessons when he was still

essentially nonverbal at 3 and 4 and he just loved it. It was a way

for him to be just like the rest of the boys without the need to

speak. Tanner also had global issues but more mild.

It's not unusual for children with apraxia today to have global

issues, but it is unusual today for them to still be essentially non

verbal at 5. I co authored The Late Talker and am curious if the

parents know of our group since we have a high success rate.

Hope that helps for now -and let me know if I can ask the group just

in case there are things I may have missed.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I do have a couple of suggestions. My 8 year old has been taking

swimming lessons for a few years now and I've learned a few things

in watching the instructors work with him. My suggestions are not

about his communication as my son is totally verbal now, but more

about your expectations or instruction methods.

My son (and many of our kids) has a touch of hypotonia. In lay

terms, it means that he lacks muscle strength - but it also means

that when he's tired - he's TIRED. Like middle-of-the-pool-I-can't-

swim-another-stroke tired. It was only this year that I'd let him

go unattended into the deep end by himself because he's begun to

realize when he's exhausted. Besides the safety standpoint, it was

also difficult for him to pull his arms out of the water

repeatedly. It was GOOD for him, but difficult in a way you

wouldn't see in a " normal " kid.

Most people learn how to swim by learning the doggie paddle and then

the crawl. That alternating motion is COMPLICATED for lots of our

kids. My son still rots at the crawl, though his breaststroke is

AWESOME because his arms are doing the same thing. Because it's a

motor planning issue, he only has to plan 1 thing for both sides to

do, not 2 different things. Does that make sense? I had a hard

time explaining it to his instructor (private) until he finally saw

him do the breaststroke on his own because he couldn't do the

crawl.

Also, motor planning the actual BREATHING can be complicated for

some kids. Most of these kids can't figure out how to blow their

noses, much less exhale through their mouths without INHALING. Just

be prepared.

Some of our kids also have sensory issues. If this is one of those

kids, I would want to know before starting instruction.

Finally, our kids (in general) don't " get it " after doing stuff one

or two or 76 times. It's harder for them to get the muscle memory

of what to do afixed in their heads. Lots of practice is needed!

All that said, I am certain that the pool and swimming is the best

Occupational therapy there is. Swimming has done GREAT things for

both my boys and they both love how free they feel in the water.

Congrats to you - and the community thanks for all of our kids! We

wish there were more guys like YOU out there!

Marina

>

> I've already answered (my answer to him below) but thought

> this was a great topic for here too. Any suggestions to pass on

to

> which can also be tips for other parents looking into swim

> lessons that I missed?

>

> From: Lines

> help@...

> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:06 PM

> Subject: swimming lessons

>

> Hi, I'm a swimming teacher and a friend of mine has a 5 year old

> that has been diagnosed with global dyspraxia. He say's the child

> cannot speak but is starting to communicate through sign language.

I

> had never heard of this condition and so decided to look it up on

> the internet where I found you. I would like to like to try and

fit

> his child in with my swimming lessons and am wondering if there is

> anything different that I need to take into account. The pool is 3

> feet deep all over and there are 6 children to a class. I know all

> children are different and will be affected differently but are

> there any generalizations?

>

> Best wishes

>

> Rob Lines.

>

>

> From: CHERAB [mailto:help@...]

> Sent: 04 September 2006 18:34

> Lines

> Subject: Re: swimming lessons

>

>

>

> Rob first of all this child is extremely fortunate to have you as

an

> instructor! Wow the fact you are taking the time to look into

this

> shows what an awesome teacher you are. You have raised an

> important question that most do not. Due to that, would you mind

if

> I question our group so that I can also get input from others?

>

> Outside of that I'd say that you would only need to be aware of

some

> of the basic signs the child knows such as " stop " or " help " or

> even " potty " since that is this child's way to communicate.

>

> Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive or cognitive ability so

> unless this child has a duel diagnosis and his cognitive ability

is

> also affected he will appreciate if you speak to him just like you

> do all the other children. My apraxic (which is the same as

> dyspraxic) son Tanner did take swimming lessons when he was still

> essentially nonverbal at 3 and 4 and he just loved it. It was a

way

> for him to be just like the rest of the boys without the need to

> speak. Tanner also had global issues but more mild.

>

> It's not unusual for children with apraxia today to have global

> issues, but it is unusual today for them to still be essentially

non

> verbal at 5. I co authored The Late Talker and am curious if the

> parents know of our group since we have a high success rate.

>

> Hope that helps for now -and let me know if I can ask the group

just

> in case there are things I may have missed.

>

> Best,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I do have a couple of suggestions. My 8 year old has been taking

swimming lessons for a few years now and I've learned a few things

in watching the instructors work with him. My suggestions are not

about his communication as my son is totally verbal now, but more

about your expectations or instruction methods.

My son (and many of our kids) has a touch of hypotonia. In lay

terms, it means that he lacks muscle strength - but it also means

that when he's tired - he's TIRED. Like middle-of-the-pool-I-can't-

swim-another-stroke tired. It was only this year that I'd let him

go unattended into the deep end by himself because he's begun to

realize when he's exhausted. Besides the safety standpoint, it was

also difficult for him to pull his arms out of the water

repeatedly. It was GOOD for him, but difficult in a way you

wouldn't see in a " normal " kid.

Most people learn how to swim by learning the doggie paddle and then

the crawl. That alternating motion is COMPLICATED for lots of our

kids. My son still rots at the crawl, though his breaststroke is

AWESOME because his arms are doing the same thing. Because it's a

motor planning issue, he only has to plan 1 thing for both sides to

do, not 2 different things. Does that make sense? I had a hard

time explaining it to his instructor (private) until he finally saw

him do the breaststroke on his own because he couldn't do the

crawl.

Also, motor planning the actual BREATHING can be complicated for

some kids. Most of these kids can't figure out how to blow their

noses, much less exhale through their mouths without INHALING. Just

be prepared.

Some of our kids also have sensory issues. If this is one of those

kids, I would want to know before starting instruction.

Finally, our kids (in general) don't " get it " after doing stuff one

or two or 76 times. It's harder for them to get the muscle memory

of what to do afixed in their heads. Lots of practice is needed!

All that said, I am certain that the pool and swimming is the best

Occupational therapy there is. Swimming has done GREAT things for

both my boys and they both love how free they feel in the water.

Congrats to you - and the community thanks for all of our kids! We

wish there were more guys like YOU out there!

Marina

>

> I've already answered (my answer to him below) but thought

> this was a great topic for here too. Any suggestions to pass on

to

> which can also be tips for other parents looking into swim

> lessons that I missed?

>

> From: Lines

> help@...

> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:06 PM

> Subject: swimming lessons

>

> Hi, I'm a swimming teacher and a friend of mine has a 5 year old

> that has been diagnosed with global dyspraxia. He say's the child

> cannot speak but is starting to communicate through sign language.

I

> had never heard of this condition and so decided to look it up on

> the internet where I found you. I would like to like to try and

fit

> his child in with my swimming lessons and am wondering if there is

> anything different that I need to take into account. The pool is 3

> feet deep all over and there are 6 children to a class. I know all

> children are different and will be affected differently but are

> there any generalizations?

>

> Best wishes

>

> Rob Lines.

>

>

> From: CHERAB [mailto:help@...]

> Sent: 04 September 2006 18:34

> Lines

> Subject: Re: swimming lessons

>

>

>

> Rob first of all this child is extremely fortunate to have you as

an

> instructor! Wow the fact you are taking the time to look into

this

> shows what an awesome teacher you are. You have raised an

> important question that most do not. Due to that, would you mind

if

> I question our group so that I can also get input from others?

>

> Outside of that I'd say that you would only need to be aware of

some

> of the basic signs the child knows such as " stop " or " help " or

> even " potty " since that is this child's way to communicate.

>

> Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive or cognitive ability so

> unless this child has a duel diagnosis and his cognitive ability

is

> also affected he will appreciate if you speak to him just like you

> do all the other children. My apraxic (which is the same as

> dyspraxic) son Tanner did take swimming lessons when he was still

> essentially nonverbal at 3 and 4 and he just loved it. It was a

way

> for him to be just like the rest of the boys without the need to

> speak. Tanner also had global issues but more mild.

>

> It's not unusual for children with apraxia today to have global

> issues, but it is unusual today for them to still be essentially

non

> verbal at 5. I co authored The Late Talker and am curious if the

> parents know of our group since we have a high success rate.

>

> Hope that helps for now -and let me know if I can ask the group

just

> in case there are things I may have missed.

>

> Best,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rob

I'd second the kudos to you for taking the time to learn more about

this child. My daughter has been in swim lessons since age 2 1/2

(now 6) and it has offered huge therapeutic benefit to her...as well

as self-confidence as she can pretty much swim as well as her

typical peers.

I'd ditto the comments on the amount of repetition needed. A couple

of other thoughts:

1) Using a kickboard was (and still is) impossible for my daughter.

She can swim a lap of the pool in a decent freestyle, but can't

cover 5 feet using a kickboard. As a former swim coach/swim

instructor, I know the kickboard is used as a teaching tool for many

young children...teach them a good steady kick on the board before

using arms. For my daughter, the first problem with the board was

how to hold on to it. There's a million options, and even if you

verbally cue something consistently there are still too many

variations in how she positions her body on it. Every position

requires a different balance and kick...there's that evil motor

planning thing again. It's a whole different skill each time. We

finally just forgot about the kickboard.

2) She had major issues laying on her back in the water. While my

daughter certainly has sensory issues, they have never been hugely

significant in comparison to other children I've met. However, I

think something with the sensory/vestibular thing was what freaked

her out about floating on her back in the water. It took probably

two years to get her to relax and lay back....this is despite being

very comfortable in the water in any other position. Then another

few months to get her head back far enough and chin up high enough

to get the rest of her body in position.

3) After learning how to propel herself forward with a steady kick,

it took a LONG time to add in arm strokes. Once again, it's a motor

planning thing....if she concentrated on moving her arms then her

legs would become big floppy noodles....if she remembered to kick

correctly then she couldn't get her arms out. We were stuck at this

stage for quite a while. What finally got her over the hump was the

instructor standing in front of her facing her and holding both of

her hands. Ellie would 'swim', and we would instruct her to focus

on her kicking. The instructor would move her arms for her, and

they'd do this back and forth in the shallow end, with the

instructor walking backwards and rotating her arms. Looked like a

physical therapy 'patterning' exercise. Over time, the instructor

loosened her grip and the arm movements became more voluntary.

Good luck. Your student is quite lucky!

[Guest guest]

Rob

I'd second the kudos to you for taking the time to learn more about

this child. My daughter has been in swim lessons since age 2 1/2

(now 6) and it has offered huge therapeutic benefit to her...as well

as self-confidence as she can pretty much swim as well as her

typical peers.

I'd ditto the comments on the amount of repetition needed. A couple

of other thoughts:

1) Using a kickboard was (and still is) impossible for my daughter.

She can swim a lap of the pool in a decent freestyle, but can't

cover 5 feet using a kickboard. As a former swim coach/swim

instructor, I know the kickboard is used as a teaching tool for many

young children...teach them a good steady kick on the board before

using arms. For my daughter, the first problem with the board was

how to hold on to it. There's a million options, and even if you

verbally cue something consistently there are still too many

variations in how she positions her body on it. Every position

requires a different balance and kick...there's that evil motor

planning thing again. It's a whole different skill each time. We

finally just forgot about the kickboard.

2) She had major issues laying on her back in the water. While my

daughter certainly has sensory issues, they have never been hugely

significant in comparison to other children I've met. However, I

think something with the sensory/vestibular thing was what freaked

her out about floating on her back in the water. It took probably

two years to get her to relax and lay back....this is despite being

very comfortable in the water in any other position. Then another

few months to get her head back far enough and chin up high enough

to get the rest of her body in position.

3) After learning how to propel herself forward with a steady kick,

it took a LONG time to add in arm strokes. Once again, it's a motor

planning thing....if she concentrated on moving her arms then her

legs would become big floppy noodles....if she remembered to kick

correctly then she couldn't get her arms out. We were stuck at this

stage for quite a while. What finally got her over the hump was the

instructor standing in front of her facing her and holding both of

her hands. Ellie would 'swim', and we would instruct her to focus

on her kicking. The instructor would move her arms for her, and

they'd do this back and forth in the shallow end, with the

instructor walking backwards and rotating her arms. Looked like a

physical therapy 'patterning' exercise. Over time, the instructor

loosened her grip and the arm movements became more voluntary.

Good luck. Your student is quite lucky!