How is ABA harmful?

September 17, 2006

We use PECS at home because sometimes my 39 mo ds is trying to

communicate and we simply cannot understand him. This way he can

bring us a card and we know exactly what he is trying to say to us.

My son also understands what I am telling him and follows

directions. We use a PECS schedule for bedtime and it helps.

" ...They are using the picture (PECS?) system with him to show him

when they are going to transition to a different task and his

teacher told me that during the first week he would look at the

picture of the next area (in this example, it was the " blue table " ),

and then look over at the blue table.

I asked her why she didn't just tell him it was time to go to the

blue table, because I know darn well that he would understand her

and do it. She said, no, he wasn't ready for that and before she

ever just talked to him she would first go to the next level of

pointing to the blue table and have him reference it. It is simply

amazing to me that she won't just try it, because I KNOW he would do

it.

We don't use pictures at home and he follows commands all day long

(well, again, about as well as a 3 year follows commands!)... "

September 17, 2006

We only insist on working at the table during ABA when the task really

demands it (eg, handwriting, or cutting/coloring), and we also did

table work to prepare my son for school and sitting at a table for

periods of time in kinder. Otherwise a lot of work is done on the

floor, with motor activities intermixed (ball throw and catch, games)

and the therapist moves around the house some with my son also. We did

a lot of discrete trials early on, when we were working on labeling,

position words, and other more basic skills, but now that we are

working on reasoning, problem-solving, asking questions, and

conversation skills, we usually do not do the previously standard 10

trials per program. It's just not appropriate for what he's working on

any more. An ABA program should adapt and change with the child.

I think of VB as a flavor of ABA - a lot of the terminology is

different, but the concepts are the same.

>

> I don't think ABA is inherently harmful for anyone. ABA principles

apply to human behavior in general. ABA is a powerful tool and if

used properly can yield spectacular results. If used improperly, like

any powerful tool, it can be a negative. I think ABA generates a lot

of emotion and strong opinions because it is such a powerful tool.

One thing to keep in mind is that many think of ABA as DTT or table

drills only. This is not the case as ABA can be used to frame most

any human behavior and can be applied in many flexible ways. The

verbal behavior style of ABA focuse on first creating positive

interactions with a learner and then slipping in work based on the

person's motivations. This form of ABA looks quite different then

what most people think of when they picture ABA therapy. My son is

apraxic and autistic and much of what the SPL therapists do could be

termed ABA. Check out he verbal behavior and groups as

they cover ABA " vb style " .

>

> Dave

>

September 18, 2006

Ok - maybe it's better to look at it this way - and I'd love to have

's input. ABA PRINCIPLES (not the actual system) are all about

consistency and reward (my research has not turned up anyone who

used adversives at all - they ignored unwanted behaviour). I spoke

with a psych about ABA for my son (dev delayed - and doing FABULOUS)

and she told me that it wouldn't teach me much new, and she wouldn't

recommend it for my son, though she often recommends it, because I

was already implementing its fundamentals. I was consistent and I

always (ok - when I wasn't making dinner) praised for the desired

behaviour. She also said that she really like floortime and RDI -

basically she said that (much like ST) it was a compliment of

therapies and theories that were effective. She really felt that

different approaches worked for different kids but that the

consistency needed to be there. She also felt that full parent

participation (and with traditional ABA you get a full-time

therapist/coordinator who gets REALLY in tune with your kid, too)

and focus on the hows and whys of your child's behaviours - whether

it was through RDI, ABA, Floortime, etc. - was the most important

part.

Onto your other question about autism vs apraxia et al... There are

so many MORE issues facing our kids today than there were 30 years

ago and they just don't have proper labels for everything. " Kinda

looks like autism and the communication disorder is severe but child

has clear imaginative powers " just doesn't exist. I believe that

many kids who were labeled as MR are now diagnosed as ASD. I also

believe that there are just flat out MORE of them. Docs don't

really know what to do therapy-wise - especially when you're looking

for the state or district to cover therapy for your child. It just

isn't enough. Traditional ST (whether it utilizes apraxia therapies

or not) just isn't enough for some of our kids - they need MORE for

it to work. This is where ABA comes in. I DON'T believe my son is

autistic but there's certainly more going on with him than " just "

apraxia. He's got other issues that are more complex than my

older " just " apraxic son. That said, my boys are NOT that

different...they really aren't. So, rather than freaking out about

the labels, realize that they're all ALL ALL general labels meant to

secure your child services. If s/he needs these services and this

is the only way to get it, so be it. It is NOT - nor has it ever

been - your child. Let the words and implications wash over you as

if they did not matter - so long as the therapy is right.

One last word of advice: one of the most imporant and telling

things ANY therapist can tell you is what their goals are for your

child. See if their goals are appropriate and match what you would

like to have him/her do.

Best of luck - Marina

> > >

> > > I keep reading that ABA can be harmful for apraxic kids.

Could

> > someone

> > > please elaborate?

> > >

> >

>

September 18, 2006

We use PECS at home because sometimes my 39 mo ds is trying to

communicate and we simply cannot understand him. This way he can

bring us a card and we know exactly what he is trying to say to us.

My son also understands what I am telling him and follows

directions. We use a PECS schedule for bedtime and it helps.

" ...They are using the picture (PECS?) system with him to show him

when they are going to transition to a different task and his

teacher told me that during the first week he would look at the

picture of the next area (in this example, it was the " blue table " ),

and then look over at the blue table.

I asked her why she didn't just tell him it was time to go to the

blue table, because I know darn well that he would understand her

and do it. She said, no, he wasn't ready for that and before she

ever just talked to him she would first go to the next level of

pointing to the blue table and have him reference it. It is simply

amazing to me that she won't just try it, because I KNOW he would do

it.

We don't use pictures at home and he follows commands all day long

(well, again, about as well as a 3 year follows commands!)... "

September 18, 2006

" It has changed in the last few years and its not the baby bootcamp

it used to be " This is a good point. Something else that's

occurred to me is that ABA might be easier to learn than floortime.

Both my child's therapists said they were using floortime, and they

were--sort of, but when I read more detailed descriptions of

floortime I realised that we were only really scratching the

surface. Floortime takes some mental agility and creativity that

somewhat intimidates me, but I really do think it makes sense. I

completely agree that we have to have an open mind to various

therapies and so much of it depends on the therapists and even the

child. The fact that ABA has become sort of " softer and gentler "

and that Greenspan has branched out into ABLC tells me that they are

both on to something.

>

> We used Greenspans floortime with Mic for a few years before we

discovered Mic has autism. I do not think ABA is harmful to children

anymore it has been modified alot in the last few years.Mic did not

play with toys until this year and he is 6, after a year in ABA hes

interacting and trying to talk we even have some words. Mic is in

school and its ABA I use ABA in my own little modified version at

home when needed. We do not live ABA. I was totally against it but

nothing was working Mics school uses floortime along with ABA.It has

changed in the last few years and its not the baby bootcamp it used

to be.I have seen several NON-verbal no interaction and off in their

own world dxed severe asd children change into normal somehwhat

shy playing happy children and mainstream to public school. Out of

50 children in Mics school 15 of them mainstreamed this year.Many of

them I personally never thought would mainstream. Had to put in my 2

cents. Laurie

>

September 18, 2006

So sorry you are going through all of that! I think that many

children are being misdiagnosed with ASD and PDD. Part of the

problem is that therapists and educators who aren't really qualified

to make these diagnoses tick a few things off a checklist based on a

cursory evaluation and then decide that they know what's wrong. The

thing that pulled me into the Greenspan book initially was that he

described how late talking children and children with sensory

processing problems could present symptoms that mimic other

syndromes. It takes skill, expertise, experience and talent to

diagnose these disorders in children, especially when they are very

young. A standardized test should not be the cornerstone of

diagnosis.

Have you thought about video taping your child at home? If you can

compile some footage of him behaving typically, that would help the

next time you get him evaluated (though it's most important to find

someone qualified to do the evaluation).

One thing about the PECS, they are a good way to give your child

another way to communicate. He understands what people tell him,

but he still needs a way to make THEM understand him. You might

consider PECS an instructional tool for the teacher rather than for

your child.

> > >

> > > I keep reading that ABA can be harmful for apraxic kids.

Could

> > someone

> > > please elaborate?

> > >

> >

>

September 18, 2006

I agree that ABA focuses on consistency and rewarding appropriate

behavior, though intensity is also very important. One important

difference in floortime and ABA is that ABA is not child-led. The

therapy team (including the parents) determine the goals, focus and

structure of the therapy, though we do try to make the therapy

sessions fun for the child.

Just to address what myjunkytrash said, ABA does require creativity

and an ability to be constantly adapting to what the child is doing

while keeping your goals in mind. It's important to make sure the

sessions are motivating for the child, and that can be tough. Since we

started ABA, our mindset has changed so that we are always working on

goals incidentally throughout the day.

> > > >

> > > > I keep reading that ABA can be harmful for apraxic kids.

> Could

> > > someone

> > > > please elaborate?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 18, 2006