Re: About my son ABA program

[Guest guest]

I will ask her this questions but I think it is going to take a while for

her to answer since she is getting married this weekend :-). So I will say

what I think about: (Sorry very long)

1) How do you believe behavioral therapy can best help a child with a

motor planning disorder who desperately wants to do things on command but

can't?

ABA goes beyond behavior. It means to understand the behavior (analyze)

to maximize (applied) the opportunities to learn. So you understand what is

frustration, what is the antecedents that lead your kid to this situation so

you don’t get there. We can use to teach numbers, to teach social skills

(RDI), to teach to learn letter and so on. I learned how to use token boards

to teach him to be more patient, to use Pecs when he can communicate, to use

new skills like synonymous or point to help us understand what he wants to

say. Because any kid that has this kind of disability has to learn how to

deal with lot stuff that typical peer don’t have too. ABA is an

individualized program, I could never pick up somebody else program and

apply it at my home. Individualize means that it’s made accordable with the

child necessities. I wish I had these tools before …it’s so much easy to

understand a child when you see the behavior behind his acts. Do you know

supernanny the tv show? A lot of those techniques are pure ABA – and there

are a lot typical peers in the show, not autistics, not apraxic, not ADD, or

whatever…

2) How do you vary your approach while working with a child with autism vs.

a child who is not autistic but just apraxic?

They accept approximation of words; For e.g.: If he says “girlo” or “girly”,

they will not say : “say girllllllll”. They just accept what he is saying.

The only one who will help him to say the “right” word is the speech

therapist (prompt trained – and who knows a lot of ABA too). Actually on our

clinic they don’t see being so odd that my son does ABA. Actually they use a

mixture, they do exactly what our great program manager does, and they

INDIVIDUALIZE the therapy. They know that my son has a lot of imagination,

so it isn’t a concept that he has to work on, even in the social piece what

we work is his self steam. We put him in a social environment that he can be

successful, like last year he went to a social group with 1 typical peer,

Igor with apraxia and more 2 kids with high function autism. They did the

circle time, all the stuff that we expect kids to do at school but in 1 a 1

environment, in a safe environment. He blossom … he feels safe to talk, he

feel confident that it is ok to be different, and he is not shy anymore. He

is actually a very popular boy. The first time I learned about ABA and my

first training was in the speech pathologist clinic.

Our home program :

a) Counting – 1:1

Edmark Reading

c) Familiar People – kids from his preschool (My son has a hard time to know

peoples names, we don’t know why but since he is very visual we teach him to

pair visual clues with people names

d) Language for learning – very interesting program. It is like a play, and

we talk about something following the sequence. And we repeat this sequence,

doesn’t matter what he says. It made him very confident to talk on chorus

with other kids.

e) Number - expressive

f) What questions

g) yesterday/today/tomorrow

h) Our phone number – my therapist had a wonderful idea. Since Igor has a

lot trouble with sequence, but is a wonderful visual learner she teaches him

to dial. She showed him the drawing that the numbers does in the keyboard!

Mastered in 1 week!

3) Typically during therapy if you notice an apraxic child is becoming

frustrated how do you handle that?

I can say that … We work to handle before he is frustrated. That’s the piece

of behavior; you know what it is going to happen, so we handle the situation

to never get to this point. If the kid is getting frustrated the therapist

is doing a bad job. The idea is for him to succeed; with him getting

frustrated is obvious that he is falling! What kind of positive reinforces

(the base of ABA) is that! If he is falling you have to break the activities

in little parts until he has it all.

4) How does behavioral therapy teach a child to read? Are there a few

pointers that you can suggest parents can try at home as a " for example " ?

Igor is very intelligent kid! His brain is faster then his mouth for sure!

And boy this is frustrating for him. So we start to teach him how to read …

We use a program called Edmark. My son is very visual and in the last

assessment that we did it was a surprise to know that he was already reading

some words. This program teaches him how to read like you learn to read a

foreign language. You learn the words, and then the words in a phrase, and

then the words in a book. He is so proud of himself that he can know read

for himself. This means a lot for him.

About social language work, Well my kid has a speech disorder …he started to

talk with 3 years old. He started to be understood for others with 4 ½ years

old, so I think that it is quite expected that a kid with his disability we

will have social anxiety. Actually I know another kid with apraxia, that in

a safe environment will talk a lot but in a classroom he will be so shy that

the school is saying about autism. But we know that is not autism, he just

doesn’t feel safe in the other environment. It is like here, I feel strange

to write in English so it take a lot to me to write in a language that I

just know for 4 years, but for you guys is a piece of cake :-). So for me is

easy to feel the social pressure that my son feels because to have apraxia

is, in some sense, like to arrive in another country: you still can think,

observe, but you can’t communicate.

My son is a child, he needs help. I will look for the help and I don’t care

if it’s a program for autistics, for ADHA, or a tool used with dyslexics

kids if I feel that will be good for him. Why not? Even the whole omega 3

thing… it started for kids with dyslexia right?

Talking about proefa … I’m amazed with the progress that he made when we

double the dose and know I can understand what you say. It took a whole year

giving one capsule a day, then came back to ½ capsule because he start to

have tantrums (that he never had in his whole life). We changed his diet, no

transfat anymore, and I control the amount of omega 6 in his food, and then

after one year we double the dose!!! His speech therapist is amazed too… He

mastered things he was working with like numbers in a random sequence. For

example he should repeat the number in a sequence (e.g.: 4 – 9 – 7 -8). He

used to have 30% of right answers and now 100%!!!! Other thing he was

terrible to recall sounds, like sequence and now 100%!!! And for the first

time ever he is catching a ball!!!!

I love this list, I appreciated all the hard work and I have to confess I

usually just lurk but I know that my son changed for better with ABA and I

will feel guilt if I shut up I don’t say about our experience.

Giseli

Mom of Igor (5 years old)

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of kiddietalk

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:29 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Tragic story about a two year old-Scooby

Gisili you are just about the only, or the only one that posted

this type of positive response for a child who is diagnosed as

having " just " apraxia -and thank you for doing so. Then again I

don't know of many apraxic children who need therapy for social

language. I have to wonder what this particular ABA therapist is

doing that is so different than the majority Seems like you (for

lack of better words) lucked out. Can you ask your child's ABA

therapist the following to see if she or he wouldn't mind writing

something up for us:

How do you believe behavioral therapy can best help a child with a

motor planning disorder who desperately wants to do things on

command but can't?

How do you vary your approach while working with a child with autism

vs. a child who is not autistic but just apraxic?

Typically during therapy if you notice an apraxic child is becoming

frustrated how do you handle that?

How does behavioral therapy teach a child to read? Are there a few

pointers that you can suggest parents can try at home as a " for

example " ?

And For Cameron with love....rest in peace little angel.

We will talk about you so she can't get away with this again.

About the woman charged with murdering Cameron -the two year old autistic

child, I checked out her website and it doesn't say ABA there -it

says IBI or intensive behavioral intervention.

One page she is no longer listed on:

" This woman's contact info I still found up online (I alerted the

webmaster of current news)

The Advocacy and Learning Associates, 212 Deere St., Twin Falls ID

83303, (208)734-1233, Bott-Graham, BCBA

http://rsaffran.tripod.com/consultants.html

(BCBA after her name means Board Certified Behavior Analyst

So I checked the " The Advocacy and Learning Associates " website

her website -and instead of ABA I found...

" IBI is a service provided to children that are diagnosed with a

developmental disability like Autism, who also have severe

maladaptive behaviors. These behaviors would include aggression,

self-injurious behaviors and tantrums. The purpose of IBI is to

teach the child how to learn and reduce the occurrence and intensity

of the maladaptive behaviors. Advocacy and Learning Associates

provide a unique behavioral approach to accomplish this and other

goals. "

http://alakids.com/whatwedo.htm

" self-injurious behaviors " yeah that was it..

How convenient for this monster

You'll see why when you read the following:

" The woman charged with inflicting fatal injuries on 2-year-old

Cameron Hamilton in November was the defendant in a multimillion

dollar child abuse lawsuit filed in 1986.

The suit was eventually dismissed with prejudice, meaning it

couldn't be refiled. It claimed Bott-Graham physically,

mentally and sexually abused a 4-year-old boy she was watching at

the Sun Valley Playschool. The business was also named a defendant

for failing to supervise Bott-Graham and ignoring signs of abuse,

according to court documents obtained Monday by the Idaho State

Journal.

The 2,500 page, $7 million suit - which includes dozens of audio and

video tapes among other evidence - was dismissed after two years of

legal wrangling. Many of the court documents are sealed and the

reason for the dismissal is unclear. The state archivist said it is

one of the largest civil cases he's ever seen.

The complaint states that during a four month period in 1985,

Bott-Graham pinched and twisted the boy's skin so violently

as to leave visible bruises, touched him inappropriately and forced

him to touch her, told him his mother didn't love him and wasn't

returning to pick him up from day care and forced him to participate

in activities of " an extremely lewd, lascivious, perverse and

corrupt nature. "

http://www.journalnet.com/articles/2006/01/11/news/local/news01.txt

And again -this is not what ABA or IBI is,

this is an example of the most horrid kind of person/professional.

So now? can we all agree to be outraged at this monster and feel

compassion towards these poor children and families?!

Oh and by the way -won't find

her as an ABA/IBI resource anywhere anymore unless you cache the

pages -I emailed everyone I could about this person's history just in

case she gets out of jail again. That's how I deal with my

outrage.

And yes (again) I know ABA or IBI is great for those who need it.

People like Bott Graham are good for nothing.

BTW -she claims she is not guilty -so could she get off again?!!

Silence is not golden.

=========

[Guest guest]

It's understandable why your child is so brilliant, I can't believe

you only starting speaking in English 4 years ago! Wow!

I believe we are on to something with what you wrote about ABA and I

would like to have you show what you wrote to your ABA therapist as

well as your Prompt therapist (who uses some ABA) and put this up on

the CHERAB and Speechville website as positive ways that ABA can be

used with an apraxic child. Sounds like you are working with some

real gems, outside the box and knowledgeable and doing what is best

for your child. Good for them and good for you and great for your

child!

It's still clear from the posts, even the recent ones on this topic,

that at least in the experience of this group the majority do not

work the way your therapists are working.

Perhaps if we get this information out there, and call is " How ABA

can be used effectively with an apraxic child " or something like

that with parent and professional opinions - we can prevent the

trauma stories we read about from traditional ABA used on an apraxic

child. It also is very clear to me at least that your ABA therapist

is using a modified version -which would be the only version that is

appropriate of course.

Perhaps in the future I won't have to say " proceed with caution "

when exploring ABA with an apraxic child.

Super Nanny approaches huh? Who wouldn't agree with that aspect?!

(speaking of which did anyone see the movie McPhee? Talk

about a real super nanny!) 5 lessons that's all you need guys,

Don't know what I mean you'll have to see the movie.

http://www.nannymcphee.com/

As far as the reading approach used -thank you for bringing that up

too. I did a quick search on the method and because of that found

something to hold on to.

I found the method you mention, Edmark, here (which isn't ABA but a

type of reading method):

http://www.riverdeep.net/language_arts/edmark_lang_arts/MakeAStory/MakeAStory.ht\

ml

But because I also found Edmark talked about at the following site -

I found this very cool resource for all of us!!

http://www.donjohnston.com/djlearning/curriculumstandards.htm

And here is information on all of the above

http://www.donjohnston.com/catalog/catalogmain/catalogfrontpage.htm

You aren't allowed to lurk anymore Gisile ) You have to much to

share with all of us! Thanks again!

=====

[Guest guest]

Giseli,

Thanks for sharing. I think all of our kids to be successful need a

program individualized just for them. So whether that includes ABA,

PROMPT or OT during speech we have to do what works. Your story

shows that ABA can work for an apraxic child.

There is no magic answer and we as parents have to sit back and look

at our kids and decide what is working for them. There is also a

personal connection issue. The greatest PROMPT SLP in the world may

work miracles with one child and not with another. Just like the

worst ABA therapist for one may work miracles with another

So for all the new parents starting out please remember that though

others may have their opinions they don't know your child like you

do. Try what you think may work and if it doesn't move on.

Eventually you will see how the pieces to the puzzle fit and that is

when you will see your child excel.

Remember you are your child's best advocate and have to approach

everything based on your child not what works or doesn't work for

someone else.

denise

Mom to 7.7 with residual apraxia lingering but otherwise

doing great in all areas.

>

> I will ask her this questions but I think it is going to take a

while for

> her to answer since she is getting married this weekend :-). So I

will say

> what I think about: (Sorry very long)

>

.. Actually they use a

> mixture, they do exactly what our great program manager does, and

they

> INDIVIDUALIZE the therapy.

[Guest guest]

WE have had similar success with ABA therapy. Like Giseli, we don't

have typical ABA therapy (sitting at a table doing drills, etc.). We

have a great behavioral therapist who devised a behavioral program

for Amber and then a TSS (therapeutic support staff specially trained

to work with behavioral issues) to implement the plan. Like Giseli

said, our team really behaves in the same manner as teh Super Nanny.

With my older dd, she understood very early on my verbal

corrections,etc. (Sierra, if you hit me you will go to time out).

With Amber, she just didn't understand and the more I told her not to

do it, the more she did it. Of course as the behavior continued, my

voice escalated and so did the behavior. Well, according to our

behavioral team I was giving her a " negative reinforcement " because

by reacting the way I did I reinforced her behavior (Amber is a huge

attention seeker, whether negative or positive, so by continuing to

talk to her through her biting, I gave her the attention she was

looking for). INstead, they had me completely ignore her behavior

when she was biting me and they told me upfront her biting me would

escalate before it got better. Two weeks of me completely ignoring

her biting and praising her desired behavior (she would get easily

frustrated if she wanted somethign and I didn't know what it was-we

taught her through positive reinforcement to take my hand and show

me, in place of going right to biting me) and she pretty much

stopped. She was always terrible trying to get out of school

(kicking and hitting me the entire way out!), so we did what they

call a backwards chain. INstead of making her go all the way to the

car for a reinforcement (me saying " good job " or giving her a thumbs

up), we broke it down into smaller steps. The first step was just

getting out of the classroom. If she got out the door without

screaming, she would get a thumbs up and I would tell her " thank you

for walking like such a big girl " . Once she mastered that for 3

days, we would move on to the next step (she would have to get out

the door and to her cubby before the reinforcement, and so on and so

on until we had her to the point where she got into the car herself

and then she got a reinforcer).

OUr TSS also came with us out in public situation that were causing

us distress. For example, she came to the library with us and worked

on getting Amber to sit at the table and read a book, versus running

from shelf to shelf pulling all of hte books off (not in a

destructive way, but she would want several books, look at them for a

few seconds and want more). Within a few weeks, she had Amber

selecting a few books and going to the table to read them. NO drills

involved, just Amber doing what she loved to do but with some control.

They also taught me how to get Amber to do our therapy homework

without major power struggles.

Amber is a very strong-willed little girl who unlike my older dd, has

no desire to please anyone (some kids will do what is asked to make

others happy, not the case with Amber). Amber is not on the autism

spectrum (according to her neuro dev ped anyway) but she really

gained alot from the behavioral therapy.

Of course, I don't know if what we did was true ABA therapy or not

but I wouldn't discount behavioral therapy for our children. I am a

very involved parent and originally they did want to have Amber sit

and do drills (I have a severely autistic cousin who did this for 40

hours a week for many years), but I told them absolutely not. I knew

that wasn't going to help Amber so we all brainstormed and decided

what Amber needed and how to best serve her.

So, I think any child with behavioral issues can be served by

behavioral therapy, but the parent's must have an active role in

deciding what type of therapy will be used. Also, I never leave

Amber alone with any therapists, except at school where the therapy

is done in a room with a one-way mirror (and they all know I drop by

unexpectedly to observe-of course, under the premise that I need to

know what to do at home-not " you could be a psycho child

molester " !!). Quite honestly, even if the behavioral therapists

worked with her, if I didn't follow through during our daily

routines, she wouldn't have gained anything from it.

>

> It's understandable why your child is so brilliant, I can't believe

> you only starting speaking in English 4 years ago! Wow!

>

> I believe we are on to something with what you wrote about ABA and

I

> would like to have you show what you wrote to your ABA therapist as

> well as your Prompt therapist (who uses some ABA) and put this up

on

> the CHERAB and Speechville website as positive ways that ABA can be

> used with an apraxic child. Sounds like you are working with some

> real gems, outside the box and knowledgeable and doing what is best

> for your child. Good for them and good for you and great for your

> child!

>

> It's still clear from the posts, even the recent ones on this

topic,

> that at least in the experience of this group the majority do not

> work the way your therapists are working.

>

> Perhaps if we get this information out there, and call is " How ABA

> can be used effectively with an apraxic child " or something like

> that with parent and professional opinions - we can prevent the

> trauma stories we read about from traditional ABA used on an

apraxic

> child. It also is very clear to me at least that your ABA

therapist

> is using a modified version -which would be the only version that

is

> appropriate of course.

>

> Perhaps in the future I won't have to say " proceed with caution "

> when exploring ABA with an apraxic child.

>

> Super Nanny approaches huh? Who wouldn't agree with that aspect?!

> (speaking of which did anyone see the movie McPhee? Talk

> about a real super nanny!) 5 lessons that's all you need guys,

> Don't know what I mean you'll have to see the movie.

> http://www.nannymcphee.com/

>

> As far as the reading approach used -thank you for bringing that up

> too. I did a quick search on the method and because of that found

> something to hold on to.

>

> I found the method you mention, Edmark, here (which isn't ABA but a

> type of reading method):

>

http://www.riverdeep.net/language_arts/edmark_lang_arts/MakeAStory/Mak

eAStory.html

>

> But because I also found Edmark talked about at the following site -

> I found this very cool resource for all of us!!

> http://www.donjohnston.com/djlearning/curriculumstandards.htm

>

> And here is information on all of the above

> http://www.donjohnston.com/catalog/catalogmain/catalogfrontpage.htm

>

> You aren't allowed to lurk anymore Gisile ) You have to much to

> share with all of us! Thanks again!

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Some very good points to remember . But on one point a bit

premature to assume that new parents will be able to now add ABA to

the mix of therapies with such a lack of awareness and still a

majority of trauma stories shared here.

To clarify: I am not addressing those of you who have children with

autism where ABA is great, or autism and apraxia where modified

ABA 'can' be great, right now I'm speaking to those who have

children that are speech impaired/apraxic/even 'just' late talkers -

who can't yet speak, desperately want to -and need to be taught not

encouraged to talk. How is ABA appropriate for them? Is it ever?

Giseli has started to address this and perhaps others can share more.

I'm also not talking about those children with behavioural issues

(hitting and extreme negative behaviours. Yes -ABA to address the behaviour)...

(but that isn't the same thing as ABA to teach a child how to talk)

As I just posted earlier - by Giseli sharing her one example of

modified ABA (and from what she wrote it is clearly a modified

program of ABA and not traditional) it shows that in that context it

would be not only appropriate -but a program that would probably

work for just about all speech impaired/apraxic children. If we

hear from a few others on how it works with their speech

impaired/apraxic child (without autism) then we can put it all

together as a page of " what to look for "

For now -we'll use just Giseli's examples on that page -and when her

ABA therapist has the time after her wedding, and her Prompt

therapist has the time -perhaps they can write something up as well

that can be added. Hopefully it can be another resource that

parents can share with the professionals that work with their

child.

just posted her experience and so did Caroline and forgive

me if I can't recall everyone else on the not so nice news of ABA

and apraxia. The typical ABA therapist experience posted about here

over the years shows this is one therapy that probaly is not going

to be awesome, good, or even appropriate, and in some cases

detrimental for an apraxic child. In most cases it's not as severe

as detrimental -but trauma has been reported.

We can use Tina's example when ABA is used to address negative behaviour.

For now it is not safe at all to assume Giseli's experience is at

all a typical example for ABA therapy on a child with apraxia.

(and from what she wrote a child with no unusual behaviour issues)

New parents don't always know what is right or not right. Educated

or not I know parents in the situation where the ABA therapist was

insisting the child " needed to cry for a breakthrough " and even

though the parent in their gut knew something wasn't right -they

were torn as to " is this right? " The one parent I know posted about

this here is Kim if you check the archives. She is a criminal

investigave attorney who lives near me and while this was going on

as strong as she may be for her career -she was upset to tears about

what to do or not do. (she stopped ABA and her son is in apraxia

therapy taking EFAs and no longer fitting classic signs of apraxia

either -doing great)

We as a group agree that what Giseli states is appropriate and that

if that was the typical example of all those who practice modified

ABA then of course modified ABA would always be appropriate. Until

there is more awareness about what to do and not to do -still

proceed with caution if you have a child who is just apraxic/speech

impaired. Read over Giseli's message to see what to look for. If

in your gut something doesn't seem right - listen to it.

Mom and Dad typically do know best.

=====

[Guest guest]

Again , every child is different. A new parent may want to try ABA

or even a modified version of it. They won't know unless they try.

So by them reading that ABA is not appropriate for an apraxic child

they are drawing a conclusion from what is posted here and they may

not try it.

Again ABA may work for an apraxic child as it has in Tina and Gisel's

case.

We all have to keep an open mind when it comes to all therapies. What

works for one doesn't work for all but if a parent doesn't try will

never know. Just like the oils if they base their opinion that they

don't work for some kids and never try then they'll never know if EFA

will work for their child.

And honestly what trauma stories? Yes had a horrific

experience but is that the norm? I am willing to bet that ABA type

therapy has worked for more children than is posted here b/c many

parents have gone to other lists where they can say the term ABA and

then don't have to hear about how that isn't appropriate for their

child.

denise

>

> Some very good points to remember . But on one point a bit

> premature to assume that new parents will be able to now add ABA to

> the mix of therapies with such a lack of awareness and still a

> majority of trauma stories shared here.

>

[Guest guest]

, now I see where you are coming from. I didn't read all of

Giseli's post (sorry if I spelled that wrong) so I guess I missed the

part that her child didn't have behavioral issues(I am trying to

sneak in some reading at work_I need to read quickly in order to do

that!!LOL). The approach used for Amber is definitely one that

addresses behavioral issues, not her speech delays (although I do use

the behavioral techniques they taught me to help keep her engaged and

her behavior in check). I didn't realize that apraxic children with

no other symptoms (behavioral outbursts, agression, etc.) were being

treated using ABA (if there are no behavioral issues then I am

curious to read why/how it works since it is Applied BEHAVIORAL

Analysis). If a child has nothing more than a motor planning issue,

I am confused as to how ABA would help (I am going back to read

Giseli's post now). I guess the therapists assumed it was behavioral

(the child wouldn't talk, versus couldn't talk).

While ABA has worked for us, i can certainly see why you would

caution parent's to really investigate any therapy before starting

(especially if there were no behavioral issues).

>

> Some very good points to remember . But on one point a bit

> premature to assume that new parents will be able to now add ABA to

> the mix of therapies with such a lack of awareness and still a

> majority of trauma stories shared here.

>

> To clarify: I am not addressing those of you who have children

with

> autism where ABA is great, or autism and apraxia where modified

> ABA 'can' be great, right now I'm speaking to those who have

> children that are speech impaired/apraxic/even 'just' late talkers -

> who can't yet speak, desperately want to -and need to be taught not

> encouraged to talk. How is ABA appropriate for them? Is it ever?

> Giseli has started to address this and perhaps others can share

more.

>

> I'm also not talking about those children with behavioural issues

> (hitting and extreme negative behaviours. Yes -ABA to address the

behaviour)...

> (but that isn't the same thing as ABA to teach a child how to talk)

>

> As I just posted earlier - by Giseli sharing her one example of

> modified ABA (and from what she wrote it is clearly a modified

> program of ABA and not traditional) it shows that in that context

it

> would be not only appropriate -but a program that would probably

> work for just about all speech impaired/apraxic children. If we

> hear from a few others on how it works with their speech

> impaired/apraxic child (without autism) then we can put it all

> together as a page of " what to look for "

>

> For now -we'll use just Giseli's examples on that page -and when

her

> ABA therapist has the time after her wedding, and her Prompt

> therapist has the time -perhaps they can write something up as well

> that can be added. Hopefully it can be another resource that

> parents can share with the professionals that work with their

> child.

>

> just posted her experience and so did Caroline and forgive

> me if I can't recall everyone else on the not so nice news of ABA

> and apraxia. The typical ABA therapist experience posted about

here

> over the years shows this is one therapy that probaly is not going

> to be awesome, good, or even appropriate, and in some cases

> detrimental for an apraxic child. In most cases it's not as severe

> as detrimental -but trauma has been reported.

>

> We can use Tina's example when ABA is used to address negative

behaviour.

>

> For now it is not safe at all to assume Giseli's experience is at

> all a typical example for ABA therapy on a child with apraxia.

> (and from what she wrote a child with no unusual behaviour issues)

>

> New parents don't always know what is right or not right. Educated

> or not I know parents in the situation where the ABA therapist was

> insisting the child " needed to cry for a breakthrough " and even

> though the parent in their gut knew something wasn't right -they

> were torn as to " is this right? " The one parent I know posted

about

> this here is Kim if you check the archives. She is a criminal

> investigave attorney who lives near me and while this was going on

> as strong as she may be for her career -she was upset to tears

about

> what to do or not do. (she stopped ABA and her son is in apraxia

> therapy taking EFAs and no longer fitting classic signs of apraxia

> either -doing great)

>

> We as a group agree that what Giseli states is appropriate and that

> if that was the typical example of all those who practice modified

> ABA then of course modified ABA would always be appropriate. Until

> there is more awareness about what to do and not to do -still

> proceed with caution if you have a child who is just apraxic/speech

> impaired. Read over Giseli's message to see what to look for. If

> in your gut something doesn't seem right - listen to it.

>

> Mom and Dad typically do know best.

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

no I don't know much about ABA first hand -so can only go by

what others tell me. I've never had Tanner in ABA and it's never

been considered an appropriate therapy for those that don't have

autism or behavioral problems -so I only know what I've been told by

those who have had their child in the program, or from what I've

read here. And from what I've heard from my Aunt which was ABA from

decades ago when it first developed and used on autistic children -

or children with " atypical behavior " My aunt was not in favor of the

program from what she witnessed in some of the children she worked

with then, and said in the follow up they were able to function but

not socially. Back then there were more punishments used with ABA

then rewards -that's when she was in Boston. Most of the punishments

were deprivation -but there were some experiments using pain.

Sometimes the children were hurt.

I know ABA has come a long way -but as long as a way it has come -

apraxia is still in the dark. The way it is now with the lack of

awareness about what apraxia is, a motor planning disorder, that's

why I say " proceed with caution " Apparently you and other

knowledgeable ABA therapists are not going to be detrimental and can

be positive. But ABA therapy outside of everything else is

expensive and timely. Is ABA more beneficial then other therapies

we know as a group to be helpful?

I know parents from the original Children's Apraxia Network group

who had to mortgage their home to pay for ABA therapy! (their child

who originally they thought was just apraxic actually was diagnosed

by Dr. Agin as having both apraxia and autism) That's because their

son went into like a full time job program of ABA -but even 's

doctor recommended 5 hours a week of ABA therapy which isn't going

to be cheap either and is far more out of pocket costs then 2 half

hour sessions a week out of pocket of speech therapy and 1 half hour

session out of pocket of occupational therapy and even throw in an

hour of cranial sacral and you still are no where near the costs

and time of ABA. Instead of everyone jumping on me for

saying " proceed with caution " why can't others outside of Giseli

post about their positive experiences of getting ABA therapy for

their pure apraxic child? Keep in mind we have tons of members that

lurk, many who can be new parents. I'm not worried about being

politically correct and not hurting anyone's feelings here -I'm

looking to raise awareness about what is best for the children- each

type of child. From what we have read here ABA is at best not

appropriate in most cases and at worst it can be detrimental.

(without mentioning costly and timely)

Again let's make a page together as a group as to how ABA can be

practical for those who don't have autism or behavioral issues and

I'm all for that.

Here's a definition of ABA from s Hopkins

Applied Behavior Analysis

Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) is probably the most widely used

treatment technique for children with autism. ABA derives from the

work of psychologist B. F. Skinner and behavioral therapy. It

presumes that autism is a neurological disorder producing behavioral

deficits and excesses that can be modified by intense one-to-one

behavioral training. ABA was adapted to autism in the 1960s by Ivar

Lovaas, a Norwegian-born psychologist at the University of

California at Los Angeles (UCLA), who has become almost a cult

figure among the parents of some children with autism. His students

have spread out around the world, modifying his procedures somewhat.

One type of ABA is called Discrete Trial Teaching (DTT).

In DTT, tasks are broken into discrete small steps that are repeated

with positive reinforcement until they are learned. There are three

main components to DTT. First, children are given a specific

instruction to perform a task. Second, the child responds or fails

to respond. Third, the therapist provides a reinforcer, feedback

about the response or a prompt to help the child respond. Discrete

trials are usually provided in sets of 10 opportunities to respond.

One task may be sorting, using objects such as Popsicle sticks and

plastic spoons. The child may be shown two boxes, one with a

Popsicle stick in it, the other with a spoon. The child is then told

to sort a pile of sticks and spoons into the appropriate boxes. If

the child does it wrong, the therapist firmly says " no. " That might

be repeated again (a " no-no prompt " ). If the child still gets it

wrong, the therapist may back up and try again with prompts or cues

to help the child perform accurately. When the child gets it right,

he or she gets positive reinforcement. The traditional application

of DTT involves rigid and repetitive lessons, Landa says. There are

more flexible child-focused ways to apply this therapeutic strategy.

ABA also can be used to modify problem behavior such as aggression,

throwing things or refusing to switch from one activity to another.

Parents of children in ABA training are advised to provide a

structured, routine environment at home.

Research by Lovaas' supporters claims that 30 percent to 50 percent

of children with autism can function normally in a regular school

without special support after ABA therapy That research has been

challenged by critics who think the success rate is not that high.

However, even ABA's critics agree that many children are helped

significantly by intensive intervention.

Those helped the most appear to be very young children getting at

least 30 hours a week of individualized training. Parents of older

children or those getting fewer than 30 hours of training also

report some improvement.

ABA therapy also can be very expensive, at more than $1,000 a month.

The training can last two years or more.

For more information, parents can go to the publications of the

National Academies Press.

http://www.hopkinshospital.org/health_info/Neurological%

20Diseases/Reading/autism_education.html

=====