RE: Acting Out since starting E

[Guest guest]

Hi Wendi,

I usually just lurk on this site but do pick up such incredibly valuable info

as well as hearing about everybody's beautiful children. I, too, have an adopted

child. My daughter is 5 and we brought her home when she was 2 1/2. She is from

Guatemala and was in an orphanage from about 8 months until I went to get her.

She has been diagnosed with apraxia, hypotonia, fetal alcohol syndrome and ADHD.

Just as you mentioned with your son, she is small, very bright in many ways, and

a true blessing to us. She has also made tremendous progress in the three years

we have had her and although progress is very slow.....she shows us everyday

what love is about.

I have been giving her NN 3-6-9 for about a year....every time I try to up the

dose, it seems her body absorb it properly because her BM's get weird and she

starts to reek of fish oil. I haven't yet started her on the vitamin E but plan

too after we have a full nutritional work-up done to see if she is deficient in

nutrients, and what might be going on in her intestines (I can't potty train

her). However, I have seen some different and sometimes aggressive behavior from

her just on the Omega 3-6-9, so I don't doubt that maybe the vitamin E could

cause it as well. Just being a fetal alcohol child will itself be reason for

behaviors to show up randomly. What do you give your son the enzymes for

specifically? Keep me posted on his progress.

warmly,

Vicki

wm61751 <wendimorton@...> wrote:

We started our son on the following the last week:

One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

For the last year he has been taking the following and continues to do

so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two Houston

Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi Vits. I

have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked up "

and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink at

at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

" bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and Vit E

that can be doing this and will it subside?

Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few months

has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is our

hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He is

very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should continue

the oils and E? Please help me here!

Blessings

Wendi

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I also adopted my daughter from guatemala. She came home at the age of one.

If you don't min me asking where are you located?

Me in RI

Loring Vicki <vickiloring@...> wrote:

Hi Wendi,

I usually just lurk on this site but do pick up such incredibly valuable info

as well as hearing about everybody's beautiful children. I, too, have an

adopted child. My daughter is 5 and we brought her home when she was 2 1/2. She

is from Guatemala and was in an orphanage from about 8 months until I went to

get her. She has been diagnosed with apraxia, hypotonia, fetal alcohol syndrome

and ADHD. Just as you mentioned with your son, she is small, very bright in

many ways, and a true blessing to us. She has also made tremendous progress in

the three years we have had her and although progress is very slow.....she

shows us everyday what love is about.

I have been giving her NN 3-6-9 for about a year....every time I try to up

the dose, it seems her body absorb it properly because her BM's get weird and

she starts to reek of fish oil. I haven't yet started her on the vitamin E but

plan too after we have a full nutritional work-up done to see if she is

deficient in nutrients, and what might be going on in her intestines (I can't

potty train her). However, I have seen some different and sometimes aggressive

behavior from her just on the Omega 3-6-9, so I don't doubt that maybe the

vitamin E could cause it as well. Just being a fetal alcohol child will itself

be reason for behaviors to show up randomly. What do you give your son the

enzymes for specifically? Keep me posted on his progress.

warmly,

Vicki

wm61751 <wendimorton@...> wrote:

We started our son on the following the last week:

One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

For the last year he has been taking the following and continues to do

so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two Houston

Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi Vits. I

have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked up "

and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink at

at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

" bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and Vit E

that can be doing this and will it subside?

Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few months

has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is our

hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He is

very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should continue

the oils and E? Please help me here!

Blessings

Wendi

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed his

naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond normal

naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without reducing or

stopping, within a few

days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

children doing well don't post often or anymore)

I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if you

start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

And Vicki I know you weren't exactly asking a question, and I really

hope I don't scare you back to lurk mode (we like you here!) -but to

smell like fish from eating fish oil...esp in the amounts we give

our children, is something you should look into. It could mean a

rare condition. But don't fear....to date out of the now 6 children

in this group who have parents that posted about smelling

fishy...none yet have been confirmed with this yet -so you

probably have another messy kid who doesn't get 'all' the fish oil

in her mouth! (just a drop to the hair will be pretty stinky!)

archive:

Re: Walmart's Spring Valley brand of fish oils??

Kerri this has come up about four or five times now since this group

has started, but to date nobody has confirmed the trimethylaminuria

diagnosis. (probably it's all just messy kids!)

This was the most recent from from 2004 - can you update

us?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

Re: a fishy smell...to

Hi ,

Yes, if I was positive it wasn't just that my son smelled fishy due

to him wiping his mouth with his hand after being given fish oil -

which is oily of course -and then wiping his hand on his body,

clothes and through his hair, which would then all stink and in the

case of clothes would not come out that easy -I would stop the oils

right away until I had the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA done by my

son's pediatrician. TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is an extremely rare

diagnosis -and in the few times this subject came up here thus far

the parents found the fishy smell was due to the oils getting on the

child from an outside source -not an inside one.

In the meantime you could try flax seed oil, until you find out

more. In addition to fish oil however -you are supposed to avoid

all the foods that would create the smell as it reads here:

" Cheer up, Hal--I am almost certain the problem is something you eat.

If that's right, the smell will go away as soon as you stop eating

those foods.

To find out, your doctor should test you for trimethylaminuria,

which is a long way to say that when you eat fish, eggs, liver,

kidney, or soybeans, your body does not digest these things quite

the way other bodies do. These foods have a chemical called choline

(say it like KO-leen), which germs in the gut digest into trimeth-

ylamines (just call them TMA). TMA smells fishy--very fishy, in

fact.

For most people that fishy smell doesn't matter because their body

turns TMA into something else, TMA oxide, which does not smell at

all. But in people with trimethylaminuria, their bodies cannot

change the TMA. So the TMA comes out in their sweat, urine, and

breath, and no matter how much these people scrub, the TMA makes

them smelly. Having this problem does not make people sick in any

way, but it certainly is embarrassing.

You say that sometimes the fishy smell goes away, which makes me

think that if you stay away from foods with choline, you'll be fine.

The worst foods for you would be fish, eggs, liver, and kidney.

Avoid them. If that's not enough, then you should also stay away

from soybeans, peas, and mayonnaise. (Think of that--a doctor's

excuse not to eat liver and tofu!)

Eggs, soybeans, and mayonnaise can be hard to avoid, because they

are part of many packaged foods. At first, you'll have to think a

lot about things like whether a Big Mac has mayonnaise (it does).

You and your family will have to read the labels on packages very

carefully. But you'll soon learn what you can and cannot eat.

This diet is a pain, there's no doubt about that. But it's much less

of a pain than smelling like rotten fish. "

http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html

Please do keep us posted. We hope you have just another messy kid!

=====

[Guest guest]

Wendi, since you changed two things at once, it's hard to tell which

one is causing the problem. I would first undo the changes - once

you've eliminated the vit E and Nordic Naturals, and gone back to the

DHA, you'll know if one of them is causing behaviors. If the behaviors

don't go away after a week on the old supplements only, then I would

check for yeast and bacterial overgrowth in his GI tract. The

inappropriate laughter sounds like a yeast problem to me. The other

thing that comes to mind is diet infraction - if he is on a restricted

diet, could he have gotten ahold of some forbidden food?

If the behaviors go away on the old supplements, then add the vitamin

E, and wait a week before switching from the DHA to the nordic

naturals. Then you will be able to isolate the problem. Is the nordic

naturals flavored? Flavoring in fish oil products is hard for my kids

to tolerate, which is why we use omega-brite brand.

good luck,

>

> We started our son on the following the last week:

> One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

> One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

> For the last year he has been taking the following and continues to do

> so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two Houston

> Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

> Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi Vits. I

> have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

> Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked up "

> and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink at

> at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

> nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

> " bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

> not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and Vit E

> that can be doing this and will it subside?

> Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

> syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few months

> has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

> that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

> age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is our

> hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He is

> very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

> Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should continue

> the oils and E? Please help me here!

>

> Blessings

> Wendi

>

[Guest guest]

Wendi,

My 2 yr old had what seemed like 100 time outs yesterday. I can't

blame it on the supplements b/c I just started the E tonight and the

he's been on the fish oils for a while. So maybe he's just acting

like a 2 yr old? Could yours just be acting like a 3 yr old?? Or

do you really feel it's the supplements? I sure hope not. I hate

to think what I might be in for if mine gets any more stubborn!

>

> We started our son on the following the last week:

> One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

> One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

> For the last year he has been taking the following and continues

to do

> so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two

Houston

> Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

> Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi

Vits. I

> have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

> Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked

up "

> and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink

at

> at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

> nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

> " bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

> not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and

Vit E

> that can be doing this and will it subside?

> Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

> syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few

months

> has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

> that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

> age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is

our

> hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He

is

> very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

> Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should

continue

> the oils and E? Please help me here!

>

> Blessings

> Wendi

>

[Guest guest]

We experienced a surge in activity when starting omega 3, or with

dose increases...accompanied by about 2-3 weeks of more difficult,

crankier behavior...that always improved after the 3rd week. But

like described...the behavior was just out of character for my

son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him react

to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion. His

responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by.

Although we saw this with fish oil...did not see it on the vitamin

E. You may want to just give it alittle time.

-

> Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

> the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

> and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

> or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

> old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

> EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed

his

> naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

>

> Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond

normal

> naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

> stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without

reducing or stopping, within a few

> days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

> more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

> may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

> children doing well don't post often or anymore)

>

> I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

> doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

> gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if

you

> start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

> creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

> oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

>

> And Vicki I know you weren't exactly asking a question, and I

really

> hope I don't scare you back to lurk mode (we like you here!) -but

to

> smell like fish from eating fish oil...esp in the amounts we give

> our children, is something you should look into. It could mean a

> rare condition. But don't fear....to date out of the now 6

children

> in this group who have parents that posted about smelling

> fishy...none yet have been confirmed with this yet -so you

> probably have another messy kid who doesn't get 'all' the fish oil

> in her mouth! (just a drop to the hair will be pretty stinky!)

>

> archive:

>

> Re: Walmart's Spring Valley brand of fish oils??

>

>

>

> Kerri this has come up about four or five times now since this

group

> has started, but to date nobody has confirmed the trimethylaminuria

> diagnosis. (probably it's all just messy kids!)

>

> This was the most recent from from 2004 - can you update

> us?

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

>

> Re: a fishy smell...to

>

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yes, if I was positive it wasn't just that my son smelled fishy due

> to him wiping his mouth with his hand after being given fish oil -

> which is oily of course -and then wiping his hand on his body,

> clothes and through his hair, which would then all stink and in the

> case of clothes would not come out that easy -I would stop the oils

> right away until I had the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA done by my

> son's pediatrician. TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is an extremely rare

> diagnosis -and in the few times this subject came up here thus far

> the parents found the fishy smell was due to the oils getting on

the

> child from an outside source -not an inside one.

>

> In the meantime you could try flax seed oil, until you find out

> more. In addition to fish oil however -you are supposed to avoid

> all the foods that would create the smell as it reads here:

>

> " Cheer up, Hal--I am almost certain the problem is something you

eat.

> If that's right, the smell will go away as soon as you stop eating

> those foods.

>

> To find out, your doctor should test you for trimethylaminuria,

> which is a long way to say that when you eat fish, eggs, liver,

> kidney, or soybeans, your body does not digest these things quite

> the way other bodies do. These foods have a chemical called choline

> (say it like KO-leen), which germs in the gut digest into trimeth-

> ylamines (just call them TMA). TMA smells fishy--very fishy, in

> fact.

>

> For most people that fishy smell doesn't matter because their body

> turns TMA into something else, TMA oxide, which does not smell at

> all. But in people with trimethylaminuria, their bodies cannot

> change the TMA. So the TMA comes out in their sweat, urine, and

> breath, and no matter how much these people scrub, the TMA makes

> them smelly. Having this problem does not make people sick in any

> way, but it certainly is embarrassing.

>

> You say that sometimes the fishy smell goes away, which makes me

> think that if you stay away from foods with choline, you'll be

fine.

> The worst foods for you would be fish, eggs, liver, and kidney.

> Avoid them. If that's not enough, then you should also stay away

> from soybeans, peas, and mayonnaise. (Think of that--a doctor's

> excuse not to eat liver and tofu!)

>

> Eggs, soybeans, and mayonnaise can be hard to avoid, because they

> are part of many packaged foods. At first, you'll have to think a

> lot about things like whether a Big Mac has mayonnaise (it does).

> You and your family will have to read the labels on packages very

> carefully. But you'll soon learn what you can and cannot eat.

>

> This diet is a pain, there's no doubt about that. But it's much

less

> of a pain than smelling like rotten fish. "

> http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html

>

> Please do keep us posted. We hope you have just another messy kid!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Wendi,

I usually just lurk on this site but do pick up such incredibly valuable info

as well as hearing about everybody's beautiful children. I, too, have an adopted

child. My daughter is 5 and we brought her home when she was 2 1/2. She is from

Guatemala and was in an orphanage from about 8 months until I went to get her.

She has been diagnosed with apraxia, hypotonia, fetal alcohol syndrome and ADHD.

Just as you mentioned with your son, she is small, very bright in many ways, and

a true blessing to us. She has also made tremendous progress in the three years

we have had her and although progress is very slow.....she shows us everyday

what love is about.

I have been giving her NN 3-6-9 for about a year....every time I try to up the

dose, it seems her body absorb it properly because her BM's get weird and she

starts to reek of fish oil. I haven't yet started her on the vitamin E but plan

too after we have a full nutritional work-up done to see if she is deficient in

nutrients, and what might be going on in her intestines (I can't potty train

her). However, I have seen some different and sometimes aggressive behavior from

her just on the Omega 3-6-9, so I don't doubt that maybe the vitamin E could

cause it as well. Just being a fetal alcohol child will itself be reason for

behaviors to show up randomly. What do you give your son the enzymes for

specifically? Keep me posted on his progress.

warmly,

Vicki

wm61751 <wendimorton@...> wrote:

We started our son on the following the last week:

One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

For the last year he has been taking the following and continues to do

so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two Houston

Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi Vits. I

have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked up "

and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink at

at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

" bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and Vit E

that can be doing this and will it subside?

Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few months

has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is our

hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He is

very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should continue

the oils and E? Please help me here!

Blessings

Wendi

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I also adopted my daughter from guatemala. She came home at the age of one.

If you don't min me asking where are you located?

Me in RI

Loring Vicki <vickiloring@...> wrote:

Hi Wendi,

I usually just lurk on this site but do pick up such incredibly valuable info

as well as hearing about everybody's beautiful children. I, too, have an

adopted child. My daughter is 5 and we brought her home when she was 2 1/2. She

is from Guatemala and was in an orphanage from about 8 months until I went to

get her. She has been diagnosed with apraxia, hypotonia, fetal alcohol syndrome

and ADHD. Just as you mentioned with your son, she is small, very bright in

many ways, and a true blessing to us. She has also made tremendous progress in

the three years we have had her and although progress is very slow.....she

shows us everyday what love is about.

I have been giving her NN 3-6-9 for about a year....every time I try to up

the dose, it seems her body absorb it properly because her BM's get weird and

she starts to reek of fish oil. I haven't yet started her on the vitamin E but

plan too after we have a full nutritional work-up done to see if she is

deficient in nutrients, and what might be going on in her intestines (I can't

potty train her). However, I have seen some different and sometimes aggressive

behavior from her just on the Omega 3-6-9, so I don't doubt that maybe the

vitamin E could cause it as well. Just being a fetal alcohol child will itself

be reason for behaviors to show up randomly. What do you give your son the

enzymes for specifically? Keep me posted on his progress.

warmly,

Vicki

wm61751 <wendimorton@...> wrote:

We started our son on the following the last week:

One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

For the last year he has been taking the following and continues to do

so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two Houston

Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi Vits. I

have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked up "

and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink at

at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

" bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and Vit E

that can be doing this and will it subside?

Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few months

has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is our

hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He is

very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should continue

the oils and E? Please help me here!

Blessings

Wendi

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed his

naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond normal

naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without reducing or

stopping, within a few

days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

children doing well don't post often or anymore)

I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if you

start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

And Vicki I know you weren't exactly asking a question, and I really

hope I don't scare you back to lurk mode (we like you here!) -but to

smell like fish from eating fish oil...esp in the amounts we give

our children, is something you should look into. It could mean a

rare condition. But don't fear....to date out of the now 6 children

in this group who have parents that posted about smelling

fishy...none yet have been confirmed with this yet -so you

probably have another messy kid who doesn't get 'all' the fish oil

in her mouth! (just a drop to the hair will be pretty stinky!)

archive:

Re: Walmart's Spring Valley brand of fish oils??

Kerri this has come up about four or five times now since this group

has started, but to date nobody has confirmed the trimethylaminuria

diagnosis. (probably it's all just messy kids!)

This was the most recent from from 2004 - can you update

us?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

Re: a fishy smell...to

Hi ,

Yes, if I was positive it wasn't just that my son smelled fishy due

to him wiping his mouth with his hand after being given fish oil -

which is oily of course -and then wiping his hand on his body,

clothes and through his hair, which would then all stink and in the

case of clothes would not come out that easy -I would stop the oils

right away until I had the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA done by my

son's pediatrician. TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is an extremely rare

diagnosis -and in the few times this subject came up here thus far

the parents found the fishy smell was due to the oils getting on the

child from an outside source -not an inside one.

In the meantime you could try flax seed oil, until you find out

more. In addition to fish oil however -you are supposed to avoid

all the foods that would create the smell as it reads here:

" Cheer up, Hal--I am almost certain the problem is something you eat.

If that's right, the smell will go away as soon as you stop eating

those foods.

To find out, your doctor should test you for trimethylaminuria,

which is a long way to say that when you eat fish, eggs, liver,

kidney, or soybeans, your body does not digest these things quite

the way other bodies do. These foods have a chemical called choline

(say it like KO-leen), which germs in the gut digest into trimeth-

ylamines (just call them TMA). TMA smells fishy--very fishy, in

fact.

For most people that fishy smell doesn't matter because their body

turns TMA into something else, TMA oxide, which does not smell at

all. But in people with trimethylaminuria, their bodies cannot

change the TMA. So the TMA comes out in their sweat, urine, and

breath, and no matter how much these people scrub, the TMA makes

them smelly. Having this problem does not make people sick in any

way, but it certainly is embarrassing.

You say that sometimes the fishy smell goes away, which makes me

think that if you stay away from foods with choline, you'll be fine.

The worst foods for you would be fish, eggs, liver, and kidney.

Avoid them. If that's not enough, then you should also stay away

from soybeans, peas, and mayonnaise. (Think of that--a doctor's

excuse not to eat liver and tofu!)

Eggs, soybeans, and mayonnaise can be hard to avoid, because they

are part of many packaged foods. At first, you'll have to think a

lot about things like whether a Big Mac has mayonnaise (it does).

You and your family will have to read the labels on packages very

carefully. But you'll soon learn what you can and cannot eat.

This diet is a pain, there's no doubt about that. But it's much less

of a pain than smelling like rotten fish. "

http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html

Please do keep us posted. We hope you have just another messy kid!

=====

[Guest guest]

Wendi, since you changed two things at once, it's hard to tell which

one is causing the problem. I would first undo the changes - once

you've eliminated the vit E and Nordic Naturals, and gone back to the

DHA, you'll know if one of them is causing behaviors. If the behaviors

don't go away after a week on the old supplements only, then I would

check for yeast and bacterial overgrowth in his GI tract. The

inappropriate laughter sounds like a yeast problem to me. The other

thing that comes to mind is diet infraction - if he is on a restricted

diet, could he have gotten ahold of some forbidden food?

If the behaviors go away on the old supplements, then add the vitamin

E, and wait a week before switching from the DHA to the nordic

naturals. Then you will be able to isolate the problem. Is the nordic

naturals flavored? Flavoring in fish oil products is hard for my kids

to tolerate, which is why we use omega-brite brand.

good luck,

>

> We started our son on the following the last week:

> One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

> One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

> For the last year he has been taking the following and continues to do

> so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two Houston

> Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

> Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi Vits. I

> have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

> Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked up "

> and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink at

> at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

> nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

> " bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

> not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and Vit E

> that can be doing this and will it subside?

> Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

> syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few months

> has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

> that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

> age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is our

> hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He is

> very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

> Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should continue

> the oils and E? Please help me here!

>

> Blessings

> Wendi

>

[Guest guest]

Wendi,

My 2 yr old had what seemed like 100 time outs yesterday. I can't

blame it on the supplements b/c I just started the E tonight and the

he's been on the fish oils for a while. So maybe he's just acting

like a 2 yr old? Could yours just be acting like a 3 yr old?? Or

do you really feel it's the supplements? I sure hope not. I hate

to think what I might be in for if mine gets any more stubborn!

>

> We started our son on the following the last week:

> One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

> One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

> For the last year he has been taking the following and continues

to do

> so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two

Houston

> Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

> Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi

Vits. I

> have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

> Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked

up "

> and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink

at

> at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

> nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

> " bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

> not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and

Vit E

> that can be doing this and will it subside?

> Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

> syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few

months

> has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

> that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

> age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is

our

> hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He

is

> very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

> Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should

continue

> the oils and E? Please help me here!

>

> Blessings

> Wendi

>

[Guest guest]

We experienced a surge in activity when starting omega 3, or with

dose increases...accompanied by about 2-3 weeks of more difficult,

crankier behavior...that always improved after the 3rd week. But

like described...the behavior was just out of character for my

son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him react

to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion. His

responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by.

Although we saw this with fish oil...did not see it on the vitamin

E. You may want to just give it alittle time.

-

> Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

> the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

> and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

> or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

> old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

> EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed

his

> naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

>

> Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond

normal

> naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

> stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without

reducing or stopping, within a few

> days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

> more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

> may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

> children doing well don't post often or anymore)

>

> I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

> doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

> gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if

you

> start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

> creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

> oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

>

> And Vicki I know you weren't exactly asking a question, and I

really

> hope I don't scare you back to lurk mode (we like you here!) -but

to

> smell like fish from eating fish oil...esp in the amounts we give

> our children, is something you should look into. It could mean a

> rare condition. But don't fear....to date out of the now 6

children

> in this group who have parents that posted about smelling

> fishy...none yet have been confirmed with this yet -so you

> probably have another messy kid who doesn't get 'all' the fish oil

> in her mouth! (just a drop to the hair will be pretty stinky!)

>

> archive:

>

> Re: Walmart's Spring Valley brand of fish oils??

>

>

>

> Kerri this has come up about four or five times now since this

group

> has started, but to date nobody has confirmed the trimethylaminuria

> diagnosis. (probably it's all just messy kids!)

>

> This was the most recent from from 2004 - can you update

> us?

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

>

> Re: a fishy smell...to

>

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yes, if I was positive it wasn't just that my son smelled fishy due

> to him wiping his mouth with his hand after being given fish oil -

> which is oily of course -and then wiping his hand on his body,

> clothes and through his hair, which would then all stink and in the

> case of clothes would not come out that easy -I would stop the oils

> right away until I had the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA done by my

> son's pediatrician. TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is an extremely rare

> diagnosis -and in the few times this subject came up here thus far

> the parents found the fishy smell was due to the oils getting on

the

> child from an outside source -not an inside one.

>

> In the meantime you could try flax seed oil, until you find out

> more. In addition to fish oil however -you are supposed to avoid

> all the foods that would create the smell as it reads here:

>

> " Cheer up, Hal--I am almost certain the problem is something you

eat.

> If that's right, the smell will go away as soon as you stop eating

> those foods.

>

> To find out, your doctor should test you for trimethylaminuria,

> which is a long way to say that when you eat fish, eggs, liver,

> kidney, or soybeans, your body does not digest these things quite

> the way other bodies do. These foods have a chemical called choline

> (say it like KO-leen), which germs in the gut digest into trimeth-

> ylamines (just call them TMA). TMA smells fishy--very fishy, in

> fact.

>

> For most people that fishy smell doesn't matter because their body

> turns TMA into something else, TMA oxide, which does not smell at

> all. But in people with trimethylaminuria, their bodies cannot

> change the TMA. So the TMA comes out in their sweat, urine, and

> breath, and no matter how much these people scrub, the TMA makes

> them smelly. Having this problem does not make people sick in any

> way, but it certainly is embarrassing.

>

> You say that sometimes the fishy smell goes away, which makes me

> think that if you stay away from foods with choline, you'll be

fine.

> The worst foods for you would be fish, eggs, liver, and kidney.

> Avoid them. If that's not enough, then you should also stay away

> from soybeans, peas, and mayonnaise. (Think of that--a doctor's

> excuse not to eat liver and tofu!)

>

> Eggs, soybeans, and mayonnaise can be hard to avoid, because they

> are part of many packaged foods. At first, you'll have to think a

> lot about things like whether a Big Mac has mayonnaise (it does).

> You and your family will have to read the labels on packages very

> carefully. But you'll soon learn what you can and cannot eat.

>

> This diet is a pain, there's no doubt about that. But it's much

less

> of a pain than smelling like rotten fish. "

> http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html

>

> Please do keep us posted. We hope you have just another messy kid!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My daughter has been acting a lot more " hyper " in the past several

months. I'm sure it's not the Vitamin E, since we just started that last

week. I have been growing concerned that she might have ADHD, but now

I'm wondering if it's actually been the fish oils causing the

hyperactivity.

Also, I always smell a fishy smell on my daughter and on her clothes. I

didn't know that was cause for concern. Should I stop the fish oils and

have our doctor do the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA, ? She eats the

gel capsules whole, so I don't think anything is spilling on her.

Best regards,

Becky McFarland

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have a question about the vit E? I was looking at a bottle of Vit E that

I have at home, it stated that children under 16 yrs should not take them. Is

there something different about the Vit E 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma? I did

not notice my bottle having the 100 IU Gamma and the Apha.

Thank you,

Kathy,

Laurel, MD

mother to Kayla eight years old, non-verbal

[ ] Re: Acting Out since starting E

Wendi,

My 2 yr old had what seemed like 100 time outs yesterday. I can't

blame it on the supplements b/c I just started the E tonight and the

he's been on the fish oils for a while. So maybe he's just acting

like a 2 yr old? Could yours just be acting like a 3 yr old?? Or

do you really feel it's the supplements? I sure hope not. I hate

to think what I might be in for if mine gets any more stubborn!

>

> We started our son on the following the last week:

> One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

> One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

> For the last year he has been taking the following and continues

to do

> so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two

Houston

> Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

> Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi

Vits. I

> have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

> Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked

up "

> and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink

at

> at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

> nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

> " bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

> not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and

Vit E

> that can be doing this and will it subside?

> Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

> syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few

months

> has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

> that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

> age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is

our

> hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He

is

> very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

> Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should

continue

> the oils and E? Please help me here!

>

> Blessings

> Wendi

>

________________________________________________________________________

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.

All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I wanted to reply since I have one of the kids who became aggressive

on the fish oil (though not until he'd been taking it for about a

year). We are NOT talking about average 2, 3, or 4 year old stuff -

it was NOT " naughty " or merely normal rotten toddler stinkiness.

This was full out rages - screaming hysterics that were life-

disrupting and major. He once threw a plastic cup and broke a

window, would have to be restrained so he didn't hit us or his

brother or hurt himself hurling himself about on the floor. It was

god awful. Unfortunately, I was exhausted and had ANOTHER small,

non-verbal child and didn't put 2 and 2 together for a LONG time

(months) and realize that it was the omegas or we would have stopped

them, but it proved to me that it was not a passing thing. It was

only when I said to my husband that if I didn't know better, I'd say

someone had doubled his dose because it was the same behaviour he

had when we tried to up his dose to 2 a day. A month or so after

we'd taken him off it (and I got my little boy back) my husband

decided to put him back on it without telling me. I knew within

HOURS. Amazing, eh?

My advice to you is to back off everything - you've added lots of

new and tweaked what you were doing. If you were a scientist, you'd

add 1 thing at a time and document its benefit/detractions for a

couple of weeks before adding another item. Just like when

introducing new foods to a baby. So, my advice is to start over -

and maybe the ProEFA isn't the right match for your child. Maybe it

is, but it's 'reacting' (for lack of a better term) with the vit E

and you're getting negative/undesired effects.

One last note for you info junkies, I would liken the heightened

emotionality of ProEFA in my son to effects I've seen on kids taking

Ritalin and other stimulants for ADHD.

Marina

> We experienced a surge in activity when starting omega 3, or with

> dose increases...accompanied by about 2-3 weeks of more difficult,

> crankier behavior...that always improved after the 3rd week. But

> like described...the behavior was just out of character for

my

> son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

> his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him

react

> to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion.

His

> responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

> incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

> speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

> attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by.

> Although we saw this with fish oil...did not see it on the vitamin

> E. You may want to just give it alittle time.

>

> -

>

>

> > Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

> > the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before

here

> > and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

> > or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

> > old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

> > EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I

welcomed

> his

> > naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

> >

> > Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond

> normal

> > naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

> > stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without

> reducing or stopping, within a few

> > days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

> > more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others

who

> > may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

> > children doing well don't post often or anymore)

> >

> > I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when

in

> > doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

> > gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if

> you

> > start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

> > creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on

fish

> > oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add that my daughter is not on fish oil yet just the vit E. Also

we had trieed vit b6 to help with irritability from her keppra (antiseizure

med). Our experience was that the vit B6 made her more hyper and irritable but

have to say we didn't do a great tracking job of before/afters and how much was

from keppra increases.

just fyi

karen

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed his

naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond normal

naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without reducing or stopping,

within a few

days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

children doing well don't post often or anymore)

I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if you

start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

[Guest guest]

I know exactly what you mean. Actually I meant to comment on the

lack of facial expression. That has been something we have noticed

in the last 2-3 weeks - ph's face is totally different. Although

I treasured his smile before - it was always a weak smile and he

generally " looked " sad or serious, even though he was actually a

very happy kid. Now his face lights up with expression. But all this

expression makes him look like a different child. -

> We experienced a surge in activity when starting omega 3, or with

> dose increases...accompanied by about 2-3 weeks of more difficult,

> crankier behavior...that always improved after the 3rd week. But

> like described...the behavior was just out of character for

my

> son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

> his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him

react

> to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion.

His

> responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

> incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

> speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

> attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by.

> Although we saw this with fish oil...did not see it on the vitamin

> E. You may want to just give it alittle time.

>

> -

>

> > Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

> > the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before

here

> > and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

> > or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

> > old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

> > EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I

welcomed

> his

> > naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

> >

> > Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond

> normal

> > naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

> > stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without

> reducing or stopping, within a few

> > days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

> > more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others

who

> > may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

> > children doing well don't post often or anymore)

> >

> > I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when

in

> > doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

> > gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if

> you

> > start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

> > creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on

fish

> > oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

> >

> > And Vicki I know you weren't exactly asking a question, and I

> really

> > hope I don't scare you back to lurk mode (we like you here!) -

but

> to

> > smell like fish from eating fish oil...esp in the amounts we give

> > our children, is something you should look into. It could mean a

> > rare condition. But don't fear....to date out of the now 6

> children

> > in this group who have parents that posted about smelling

> > fishy...none yet have been confirmed with this yet -so you

> > probably have another messy kid who doesn't get 'all' the fish

oil

> > in her mouth! (just a drop to the hair will be pretty stinky!)

> >

> > archive:

> >

> > Re: Walmart's Spring Valley brand of fish oils??

> >

> >

> >

> > Kerri this has come up about four or five times now since this

> group

> > has started, but to date nobody has confirmed the

trimethylaminuria

> > diagnosis. (probably it's all just messy kids!)

> >

> > This was the most recent from from 2004 - can you

update

> > us?

> >

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

> >

> > Re: a fishy smell...to

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Yes, if I was positive it wasn't just that my son smelled fishy

due

> > to him wiping his mouth with his hand after being given fish

oil -

> > which is oily of course -and then wiping his hand on his body,

> > clothes and through his hair, which would then all stink and in

the

> > case of clothes would not come out that easy -I would stop the

oils

> > right away until I had the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA done by my

> > son's pediatrician. TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is an extremely rare

> > diagnosis -and in the few times this subject came up here thus

far

> > the parents found the fishy smell was due to the oils getting on

> the

> > child from an outside source -not an inside one.

> >

> > In the meantime you could try flax seed oil, until you find out

> > more. In addition to fish oil however -you are supposed to avoid

> > all the foods that would create the smell as it reads here:

> >

> > " Cheer up, Hal--I am almost certain the problem is something you

> eat.

> > If that's right, the smell will go away as soon as you stop

eating

> > those foods.

> >

> > To find out, your doctor should test you for trimethylaminuria,

> > which is a long way to say that when you eat fish, eggs, liver,

> > kidney, or soybeans, your body does not digest these things quite

> > the way other bodies do. These foods have a chemical called

choline

> > (say it like KO-leen), which germs in the gut digest into

trimeth-

> > ylamines (just call them TMA). TMA smells fishy--very fishy, in

> > fact.

> >

> > For most people that fishy smell doesn't matter because their

body

> > turns TMA into something else, TMA oxide, which does not smell at

> > all. But in people with trimethylaminuria, their bodies cannot

> > change the TMA. So the TMA comes out in their sweat, urine, and

> > breath, and no matter how much these people scrub, the TMA makes

> > them smelly. Having this problem does not make people sick in any

> > way, but it certainly is embarrassing.

> >

> > You say that sometimes the fishy smell goes away, which makes me

> > think that if you stay away from foods with choline, you'll be

> fine.

> > The worst foods for you would be fish, eggs, liver, and kidney.

> > Avoid them. If that's not enough, then you should also stay away

> > from soybeans, peas, and mayonnaise. (Think of that--a doctor's

> > excuse not to eat liver and tofu!)

> >

> > Eggs, soybeans, and mayonnaise can be hard to avoid, because they

> > are part of many packaged foods. At first, you'll have to think a

> > lot about things like whether a Big Mac has mayonnaise (it does).

> > You and your family will have to read the labels on packages very

> > carefully. But you'll soon learn what you can and cannot eat.

> >

> > This diet is a pain, there's no doubt about that. But it's much

> less

> > of a pain than smelling like rotten fish. "

> > http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html

<http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html>

> >

> > Please do keep us posted. We hope you have just another messy

kid!

> >

> > =====

> >

[Guest guest]

" But like described...the behavior was just out of character for my

son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him react

to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion. His

responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by. "

I just had to comment on this, as it describes what has happened to our little

to a " T " and I have pondered it often, myself. One year ago, we went

through the trial of an ASD evaluation. was found not to be on the

spectrum, but in the Psychologists' report, they noted that , while

expressing joint attention and social interest, was unusually passive and

patient for a [then] 2 year old and had a rather limited array of facial

expressions. Although cognitive testing was not done at that visit (it was part

1 of 2 of the entire neurodevelopmental evaluation), the Psychologists' noted

that they suspected to be globally delayed. This was before we knew

about the apraxia, of course.

Sigh ...

Now, one year later, after much appropriate therapy and supplementation, that

is gone. " Mine! " and " My turn! " and " Take away! " and " Share! " are

regular declarations in our house now. She gets livid when kids take away her

toys and asserts herself accordingly ;-). SO, SO different from the of

a year ago. Although we enforce sharing and give timeouts for pushing her

sister, etc., deep down, I am THRILLED at this behavior. It is so ... normal.

By the way, has been found to be very bright.

SCARY what apraxia does to our children's early development and also to the

perception of our children by well-meaning professionals, isn't it?

Warm regards,

******************

(Rochester, NY)

Mom to , 3.3 years, Verbal Apraxia

& , 1.1 years (and babbling away!)

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of claudia.morris

Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:39 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Acting Out since starting E

We experienced a surge in activity when starting omega 3, or with

dose increases...accompanied by about 2-3 weeks of more difficult,

crankier behavior...that always improved after the 3rd week. But

like described...the behavior was just out of character for my

son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him react

to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion. His

responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by.

Although we saw this with fish oil...did not see it on the vitamin

E. You may want to just give it alittle time.

-

> Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

> the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

> and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

> or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

> old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

> EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed

his

> naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

>

> Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond

normal

> naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

> stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without

reducing or stopping, within a few

> days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

> more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

> may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

> children doing well don't post often or anymore)

>

> I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

> doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

> gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if

you

> start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

> creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

> oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

>

> And Vicki I know you weren't exactly asking a question, and I

really

> hope I don't scare you back to lurk mode (we like you here!) -but

to

> smell like fish from eating fish oil...esp in the amounts we give

> our children, is something you should look into. It could mean a

> rare condition. But don't fear....to date out of the now 6

children

> in this group who have parents that posted about smelling

> fishy...none yet have been confirmed with this yet -so you

> probably have another messy kid who doesn't get 'all' the fish oil

> in her mouth! (just a drop to the hair will be pretty stinky!)

>

> archive:

>

> Re: Walmart's Spring Valley brand of fish oils??

>

>

>

> Kerri this has come up about four or five times now since this

group

> has started, but to date nobody has confirmed the trimethylaminuria

> diagnosis. (probably it's all just messy kids!)

>

> This was the most recent from from 2004 - can you update

> us?

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

>

> Re: a fishy smell...to

>

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> Yes, if I was positive it wasn't just that my son smelled fishy due

> to him wiping his mouth with his hand after being given fish oil -

> which is oily of course -and then wiping his hand on his body,

> clothes and through his hair, which would then all stink and in the

> case of clothes would not come out that easy -I would stop the oils

> right away until I had the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA done by my

> son's pediatrician. TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is an extremely rare

> diagnosis -and in the few times this subject came up here thus far

> the parents found the fishy smell was due to the oils getting on

the

> child from an outside source -not an inside one.

>

> In the meantime you could try flax seed oil, until you find out

> more. In addition to fish oil however -you are supposed to avoid

> all the foods that would create the smell as it reads here:

>

> " Cheer up, Hal--I am almost certain the problem is something you

eat.

> If that's right, the smell will go away as soon as you stop eating

> those foods.

>

> To find out, your doctor should test you for trimethylaminuria,

> which is a long way to say that when you eat fish, eggs, liver,

> kidney, or soybeans, your body does not digest these things quite

> the way other bodies do. These foods have a chemical called choline

> (say it like KO-leen), which germs in the gut digest into trimeth-

> ylamines (just call them TMA). TMA smells fishy--very fishy, in

> fact.

>

> For most people that fishy smell doesn't matter because their body

> turns TMA into something else, TMA oxide, which does not smell at

> all. But in people with trimethylaminuria, their bodies cannot

> change the TMA. So the TMA comes out in their sweat, urine, and

> breath, and no matter how much these people scrub, the TMA makes

> them smelly. Having this problem does not make people sick in any

> way, but it certainly is embarrassing.

>

> You say that sometimes the fishy smell goes away, which makes me

> think that if you stay away from foods with choline, you'll be

fine.

> The worst foods for you would be fish, eggs, liver, and kidney.

> Avoid them. If that's not enough, then you should also stay away

> from soybeans, peas, and mayonnaise. (Think of that--a doctor's

> excuse not to eat liver and tofu!)

>

> Eggs, soybeans, and mayonnaise can be hard to avoid, because they

> are part of many packaged foods. At first, you'll have to think a

> lot about things like whether a Big Mac has mayonnaise (it does).

> You and your family will have to read the labels on packages very

> carefully. But you'll soon learn what you can and cannot eat.

>

> This diet is a pain, there's no doubt about that. But it's much

less

> of a pain than smelling like rotten fish. "

> http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html

<http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/496web/derzebra.html>

>

> Please do keep us posted. We hope you have just another messy kid!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My daughter has been acting a lot more " hyper " in the past several

months. I'm sure it's not the Vitamin E, since we just started that last

week. I have been growing concerned that she might have ADHD, but now

I'm wondering if it's actually been the fish oils causing the

hyperactivity.

Also, I always smell a fishy smell on my daughter and on her clothes. I

didn't know that was cause for concern. Should I stop the fish oils and

have our doctor do the test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA, ? She eats the

gel capsules whole, so I don't think anything is spilling on her.

Best regards,

Becky McFarland

[Guest guest]

That is what is affectionately known as a " don't sue me " note. Almost

all manufacturers have them in some way, shape or form. It's their way

of saying " use my product at your own risk " . It is safe to give the

vit. e to kids under 16. It is even included in infant formulas.

It is likely that all products from that same manufacturer/distributor

carry the exact same statement.

Kris

On Sep 5, 2006, at 9:27 AM, KATHYELKAY@... wrote:

> Hi, I have a question about the vit E? I was looking at a bottle of

> Vit E that I have at home, it stated that children under 16 yrs should

> not take them. Is there something different about the Vit E 400 IU

> Apha and 100 IU Gamma? I did not notice my bottle having the 100 IU

> Gamma and the Apha.

>

>

> Thank you,

>

> Kathy,

> Laurel, MD

> mother to Kayla eight years old, non-verbal

>

>

> [ ] Re: Acting Out since starting E

>

> Wendi,

>

> My 2 yr old had what seemed like 100 time outs yesterday. I can't

> blame it on the supplements b/c I just started the E tonight and the

> he's been on the fish oils for a while. So maybe he's just acting

> like a 2 yr old? Could yours just be acting like a 3 yr old?? Or

> do you really feel it's the supplements? I sure hope not. I hate

> to think what I might be in for if mine gets any more stubborn!

[Guest guest]

Hi Becky!

It's not exactly that the oil would have to spill out. Even if your

daughter chews the capsules, chances are she will get some oil on

her lips. All she would need to do to smell like a fishing boat is

wipe the back of her hand on her mouth...then wipe her hands on her

clothes or through her hair. I mean unless you have a child that

eats and never gets anything on her lips (and even around her

mouth!) like most. Since the fish oil is not chocolate colored it's

not easy to see...just smell. What I did is give Tanner his fish

oil with a paper towel handy and whether he wanted to wipe his mouth

or not...I made him wipe it each time. You would be amazed that

each time there was a bit of fish oil on his lips even though it

looked like it just went into his mouth and he swallowed it.

Should you test for TRIMETHYLAMINURIA? (isn't it funny that it's all

bolded like it's a Saturday Night Live horror word) Why not wait to

see if the fish smell is there after trying the paper towel thing

for a few days because TRIMETHYLAMINURIA is very very very very very

rare. Because...if she had TRIMETHYLAMINURIA -she'd have signs even

with a little bit of fish or other foods...and you report it's only when you

upped

the dosage (so more of a chance she's not getting it all 100% into

her mouth)

Bounty to the rescue!

As far as the hyperness...is it affecting her social or academic

activities? Is she doing better in other areas...or worse? How

long has she been on the fish oils and would you want to reduce them

(or stop them)? That's typically when most of us see the

regression...and given the choice between not talking and more

hyper, most choose more hyper. I know for us (again) it was a great

thing because Tanner was actually kind of lethargic-just-go-along-

with-everything-with-no-fuss before the EFAs. EFAs calmed my ADHD

child down and gave life to my apraxic one. If for real ADHD is

suspected you can try upping the EPA a bit more to a 1-1 ratio.

That's what has worked best for Dakota my ADHD child -but that's too

high in EPA for my apraxic one. So don't know what to tell you

(raise the EPA 1/2 more?) Good thing it's easy enough to play with

the dosages and no harm in stopping them cold turkey (other than

health reasons that is...meaning you are taking away one of the

healthiest things you could possibly feed your child that also would

give her a head's up in school)

Just one of a zillion trillion articles on this -check the archives

or google or PubMed for many mores.

" The body portion: Feed your child's brain

A study of Kenyan schoolchildren conducted in the 1980s and 1990s

illustrates the idea that our intellect can be shaped by what we eat

and how we use our brains.

UCLA researchers looked at six- to eight-year olds in 1984, then

another, larger group of them in 1998, and noted something amazing:

In just 14 years, their IQs increased more than any other population

ever studied.

What happened?

There were two key factors. The first is that the kids started

getting better nutrition--including more protein, which kept them

alert, energetic, and less prone to anemia, an iron deficiency that

dulls thinking skills.

Even if you don't live in Kenya, there's a good chance your kids

aren't eating what they need for optimal brain performance. For

example, if they're not eating a lot of fish, or taking fish-oil

supplements, then there might be an opportunity for some gains.

Learn More!

• How does nutrition affect your body?

• Make Your Kids Smarter: Top Teacher Tips for Grades K to 8 by

V. Shearin Karres

Foods rich in omega-3 fats--such as salmon, fresh tuna, herring, and

sardine--contain something called eicosapentaenoic acid, or EPA. EPA

does three things: It boosts blood flow to the brain, it helps make

hormones that boost brain function, and it helps boost the immune

system by acting as an anti-inflammatory agent. (A healthy immune

system is important for young children, because illness can wear

them out and impair learning.)

A study published in the journal Pediatrics showed that kids who

took fish-oil supplements, which contain omega-3, showed huge

improvements in spelling, IQ, and reading. Even their behavior got

better.

Typically, kids (and adults) in the United States don't eat a lot of

fish--and therefore are missing out on the benefits. Fish oil isn't

a magic potion, but experts are increasingly agreeing that we need

more in our diets. (A word of caution: Mercury levels are high in

some of these same fatty fish. Mercury--a pollutant from coal plants-

-can cause brain damage and other physical ailments. Many stores now

carry warnings on the most susceptible fish products.) "

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elementary/default.aspx?article=twoway\

s

" Which fish oil brands are best for children?

By TANIA ALEXANDER, Daily Mail 14:22pm 6th June 2006

Research proves fish oil tablets can boost your child's brainpower -

but how do you persuade fussy youngsters to take them? Here, an

expert rates the top brands...and our junior panel give their taste

verdict:

Fish oils are the new health 'wonder' food - not a week goes by, it

seems, without yet more research confirming how good they are for

you.

Not only do they help children with learning difficulties such as

dyslexia, ADHD and dyspraxia, and adults with conditions as

schizophrenia and depression, fish oils protect the heart and reduce

the pain of arthritis.

Then last week a study, funded by Boots, found that regular doses of

fish oils dramatically boosted young children's performance at

school. Nearly three quarters of the youngsters - who were of mixed

academic ability - showed improvements in numeracy, reading and

writing after taking fish oil supplements for nine months.

" With no placebo group, we don't know what progress they would have

have made anyway " says Dr , a Senior Research Fellow

from Oxford University. " But these findings are in line with other

evidence that fish oils really can improve behaviour and learning in

many children. "

It is the Omega-3 fatty acids - specifically EPA and DHA - they

contain that make fish oils so beneficial. Unfortunately the body

can't make Omega-3s; the best source is oily fish. But the problem,

as most parents know, is that children don't like it, so Omega-3

supplements are becoming a popular option.

Traditional cod liver oil is not particularly rich in EPA and DHA;

it also contains the fat-soluble vitamins A and D, that can be toxic

in excess, so high doses are not advisable in the long-term. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/dietfitness.html?in_articl\

\

e_id=389362 & in_page_id=1798 & in_a_source=

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have a question about the vit E? I was looking at a bottle of Vit E that

I have at home, it stated that children under 16 yrs should not take them. Is

there something different about the Vit E 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma? I did

not notice my bottle having the 100 IU Gamma and the Apha.

Thank you,

Kathy,

Laurel, MD

mother to Kayla eight years old, non-verbal

[ ] Re: Acting Out since starting E

Wendi,

My 2 yr old had what seemed like 100 time outs yesterday. I can't

blame it on the supplements b/c I just started the E tonight and the

he's been on the fish oils for a while. So maybe he's just acting

like a 2 yr old? Could yours just be acting like a 3 yr old?? Or

do you really feel it's the supplements? I sure hope not. I hate

to think what I might be in for if mine gets any more stubborn!

>

> We started our son on the following the last week:

> One Nordic Naturals Omega 3, 6, 9 per day

> One Natural Vit E with 400 IU Apha and 100 IU Gamma

> For the last year he has been taking the following and continues

to do

> so: Two Houston AFP Digestive Enzymes with each meal and Two

Houston

> Zyme Prime Digestive Enzymes with each meal. He was taking 2

> Children's DHA each morning as well as 2 Animal Parade Multi

Vits. I

> have stopped the DHA since he gets that in the Omega 3,6,9.

> Yestaerday he started really acting out. He gets really " worked

up "

> and will start to laugh(inappropraitely). He will spit his drink

at

> at times. Yesterday the Children's Church teacher put him in the

> nursery because he was acting out so badly (she said HE was really

> " bad " and I told her real quick he might have acted badly but HE is

> not bad!) Anyway, I am just wondering if it is the new oils and

Vit E

> that can be doing this and will it subside?

> Our son was three in January and has a diagnosis of fetal alcohol

> syndrome, failure to thrive, sensory issues...in the last few

months

> has started to talk somewhat. He also is a preemie and I might add

> that he was raised in a Russian Orphanage until he was 18 months of

> age and then we adopted him. He is the light of our lives and is

our

> hero! He has made tremendous progress since he has been home. He

is

> very smart. He is tiny...weighs 24 pounds!

> Hope to hear from someone of you soon. Do you think I should

continue

> the oils and E? Please help me here!

>

> Blessings

> Wendi

>

________________________________________________________________________

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.

All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I wanted to reply since I have one of the kids who became aggressive

on the fish oil (though not until he'd been taking it for about a

year). We are NOT talking about average 2, 3, or 4 year old stuff -

it was NOT " naughty " or merely normal rotten toddler stinkiness.

This was full out rages - screaming hysterics that were life-

disrupting and major. He once threw a plastic cup and broke a

window, would have to be restrained so he didn't hit us or his

brother or hurt himself hurling himself about on the floor. It was

god awful. Unfortunately, I was exhausted and had ANOTHER small,

non-verbal child and didn't put 2 and 2 together for a LONG time

(months) and realize that it was the omegas or we would have stopped

them, but it proved to me that it was not a passing thing. It was

only when I said to my husband that if I didn't know better, I'd say

someone had doubled his dose because it was the same behaviour he

had when we tried to up his dose to 2 a day. A month or so after

we'd taken him off it (and I got my little boy back) my husband

decided to put him back on it without telling me. I knew within

HOURS. Amazing, eh?

My advice to you is to back off everything - you've added lots of

new and tweaked what you were doing. If you were a scientist, you'd

add 1 thing at a time and document its benefit/detractions for a

couple of weeks before adding another item. Just like when

introducing new foods to a baby. So, my advice is to start over -

and maybe the ProEFA isn't the right match for your child. Maybe it

is, but it's 'reacting' (for lack of a better term) with the vit E

and you're getting negative/undesired effects.

One last note for you info junkies, I would liken the heightened

emotionality of ProEFA in my son to effects I've seen on kids taking

Ritalin and other stimulants for ADHD.

Marina

> We experienced a surge in activity when starting omega 3, or with

> dose increases...accompanied by about 2-3 weeks of more difficult,

> crankier behavior...that always improved after the 3rd week. But

> like described...the behavior was just out of character for

my

> son...who was always the most angelic baby - but to the point that

> his good behavior wasn't really normal. I am happy to see him

react

> to other kids taking away his toys now, and expressing emotion.

His

> responses are so much more normal than they used to be. And each

> incidence of " bad " behavior was alway accompanied by a surge in

> speech and coordination, and a " hey, look at what I can do " type

> attitude...rather than passively watching the world pass him by.

> Although we saw this with fish oil...did not see it on the vitamin

> E. You may want to just give it alittle time.

>

> -

>

>

> > Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

> > the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before

here

> > and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

> > or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

> > old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

> > EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I

welcomed

> his

> > naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

> >

> > Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond

> normal

> > naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

> > stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without

> reducing or stopping, within a few

> > days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

> > more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others

who

> > may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

> > children doing well don't post often or anymore)

> >

> > I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when

in

> > doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

> > gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if

> you

> > start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

> > creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on

fish

> > oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add that my daughter is not on fish oil yet just the vit E. Also

we had trieed vit b6 to help with irritability from her keppra (antiseizure

med). Our experience was that the vit B6 made her more hyper and irritable but

have to say we didn't do a great tracking job of before/afters and how much was

from keppra increases.

just fyi

karen

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

Vicki I suspect too that it's the fish oil that may cause

the " aggressive " behavior since we've heard about this before here

and there in the archives. What some consider " hyper "

or " aggressive " or " naughty " others consider normal for a 3 year

old. I know for my son... he was so " good " and " quiet " prior to

EFAs...but too good - not normal. I am strange in that I welcomed his

naughtiness -the terrible stage he never went through at 2.

Now I'm sure there are those who have children that go beyond normal

naughtiness, but all you have to do is either reduce the oils or

stop them. It's pretty easy to fix. In most cases without reducing or stopping,

within a few

days to a week the " bad " behavior goes away and the speech surges

more...but check the archives and you'll read this from others who

may or may not be part of the group anymore. (some who have

children doing well don't post often or anymore)

I know today most are starting everything all at once...but when in

doubt lower the dosage and/or start with one thing at a time and

gradually increase so you can see what is doing what. I mean if you

start fish oils and E at the same time...how do you know which is

creating the surge? For those of us who have had our child on fish

oils for months or years....it's easy to know.

[Guest guest]

FYI - Vit E is also used as a natural preservative in lots of

foods. Read some labels and look for the word tocopherol, that's

vitamin E

>

> > Hi, I have a question about the vit E? I was looking at a bottle

of

> > Vit E that I have at home, it stated that children under 16 yrs

should

> > not take them. Is there something different about the Vit E 400

IU

> > Apha and 100 IU Gamma? I did not notice my bottle having the 100

IU

> > Gamma and the Apha.

> >

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > Kathy,

> > Laurel, MD

> > mother to Kayla eight years old, non-verbal

> >

> >

> > [ ] Re: Acting Out since starting E

> >

> > Wendi,

> >

> > My 2 yr old had what seemed like 100 time outs yesterday. I

can't

> > blame it on the supplements b/c I just started the E tonight

and the

> > he's been on the fish oils for a while. So maybe he's just

acting

> > like a 2 yr old? Could yours just be acting like a 3 yr old?? Or

> > do you really feel it's the supplements? I sure hope not. I hate

> > to think what I might be in for if mine gets any more stubborn!

>