Re: Tragic story of two year old

[Guest guest]

, out of curiosity what makes you say that aba is detrimental to

children with apraxia and how is aba perse the cause of this child's death?

Couldn't

it have been abuse? While I agree that Aba is not for everyone I was

considering a school program that offers it since my daughter has apraxia, adhd,

polymicrogyria.

[Guest guest]

" it is not

appropriate and can be detrimental for most children with for

example apraxia. "

I respect your opinion but I have to say that my son, with apraxia only (not

autism) had GREAT results using ABA therapy. He never had a behavior

problem, but we use ABA as a tool to teach him read, recognize his letters,

numbers, He is doing GREAT! Our speech therapist use ABA in her clinic as a

tool to help our kids. It's simple amazing what ABA can do it. A lot of

stuff sound like just good parenting rules. Yes I read a story about Melany

....but unfortunately this can happen everywhere that's why we - as parents -

need to learn, study and inform ourselves! I use to have the same prejudice

against ABA, but you should ask information, watch a session... They work

with positive reinforce, POSITIVE REINFORCE!!!!

Giseli

[Guest guest]

Just thought I would chime in, even though I am not . I think made

it clear in that post, that she wanted to stress that you have to know who

your therapist is and just be careful. This would apply to babysitters too or

soccer coaches. Public schools in NJ do criminal background checks on teachers,

but not all Board of Recreations do checks on coaches.

Regarding ABA, has maintained that she is aware that it has helped many

kids, but not all therapies are helpful to all children all of the time. In

my daughter's case, my slp can attest that her hurt her progress

significantly. But also, not all ABA therapists or therapies are followed the

same way

either. You have those who dangle food in front of a child's face and will

not give it to her/him until he does the task requested. My daughter reacts

more positively to a more fun approach where she doesn't even realize that she

is working. The therapists we had just made her cry in a chair that she wasn't

permitted to get out of until they said so. This started at the young age of

2 and 1/2. Then we had therapists that said no they didn't do that kind of

strict ABA, but ended up, they did.

So, I think what is saying, based upon speaking to her many times and

reading her posts, that what is good for one isn't always good for others; and

while she is by no means saying that ABA caused this child's death because it

has helped many, some therapies do not help all children and parents should

just be aware of that.

Good luck with your child, and we wish you nothing but progress. Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Wow, national enquirer? Although I must admit to looking through the paper

when at my mom's (she subscribes), I don't think what was doing was

anything comparable to the sensationlism in the enquirer. In fact, the story she

wrote about wasn't about alien encounters or celebrity affairs, it just was a

caution to everyone that you should know perhaps more about your child's

babysitter, therapist, day care, friends, relatives, etc. Just my opinion.

Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Miche, I totally agree and relate to what you are saying. My daughter even

had a pt who would force her to do sit up's on the exercise ball over and over

again, while she cried. I got rid of her quickly. In contrast, the pt she has

now, makes it a fun thing and tickles her,etc; so she loves to do the

sit-ups.

After the ABA therapists we had and this particular poor pt, all who made my

daughter cry so much, I was ready to give up on all therapists, but knew

better. My neurologists told me to tell them if 60 percent of a child's energy

is being used up in crying and being upset, then the brain can't learn. I have

had to remind many of that.

Prior to the bad experience with these particular ABA therapists, my

daughter would happily sit in the slp's chair and work on sounds and oral motor.

Then, suddenly she refused to sit in any chair.

Again, I applaud the great therapists, but no matter who it is, parents

should try to be aware of what's going on as much as possible.

Thanks, Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Oh my goodness, what is the reason for posting these items? I feel

like I am reading the national enquirer.

There are positives and negatives about different therapies,

therapists, grouplists and personalities, but please try and give

equal play to both sides of an issue.

Thanks for taking the time you do to moderate this list and making

this a way for all us parents to learn and share.

>

> Did anyone read about this poor two year old that died of head

> injuries from a woman named Bott Graham, an ABA therapist?

> When I was saying to proceed with caution with ABA I didn't mean

> because of death, only because it's a therapy that while excellent

> for those who need it -such as many children with autism -it is not

> appropriate and can be detrimental for most children with for

> example apraxia.

>

> The following is horrible and is in no way indicative of ABA

> therapists as a rule. This is just another lesson about the

> importance of knowing the professionals that work with your child.

>

> " POCATELLO - Two-year-old Cameron Hamilton passed away in his

> father's arms at a Utah hospital after life support was removed

> Monday night.

>

> Cameron was flown to Primary Children's Medical Center in Salt Lake

> City from Pocatello with severe head trauma Dec. 1 after a Chubbuck

> day care, Achieving a Better Life, called police and said he

> was " unresponsive. " An associate of the care center, Bott-

> Graham, 39, of Pocatello, remains in Bannock County Jail accused of

> inflicting the fatal injuries on the child.

>

> She's been officially charged with felony injury to a child in

> connection with the incident but more severe charges are expected.

> Her preliminary hearing is set for Monday.

>

> A background check by the Journal revealed that

Bott-Graham faced

> heroin and injury to a child charges two years ago that resulted in

> her state counseling license being revoked.

>

> Cameron's mother, Fast of Pocatello, said Bott-Graham did

> not have permission Dec. 1 to pick up the child from Achieving a

> Better Life. From there, Bott-Graham allegedly took the child to her

> home, where Pocatello police said the abuse occurred. She then

> returned the " unresponsive " child to the day care, police said... "

>

http://michaelcapanzzi.blogharbor.com/blog/DomesticViolence/_archives/2005/12/8/\

1441281.html

>

> This woman's contact info I still found up online (I alerted the

> webmaster of current news)

> The Advocacy and Learning Associates, 212 Deere St., Twin Falls ID

> 83303, (208)734-1233, Bott-Graham, BCBA

> http://rsaffran.tripod.com/consultants.html

>

> More recent news:

> " Bott-Graham returned an unresponsive Hamilton to ABL Nov. 29 after

> treating him for autism at her Pocatello home. Hamilton was taken to

> Portneuf Medical Center and then Salt Lake City, where he later

> died. "

> http://www.journalnet.com/articles/2006/02/01/news/local/news01.txt

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

>Then we had therapists that said no they didn't do that kind of

>strict ABA, but ended up, they did.

The same happened with us. Some will say that is not ABA, but I believe it

is poorly done ABA. Unfortunately there are MANY semi-trained therapists

that interpret ABA to mean don't give in until a child says it. His first

EI would force him to stay in a chair and hold his hands together. She

didn't let him grab or gesture which was his way of communicating at that

point. I was never comfortable with it, but then " they " say that you have

to push limits in therapy. The day she grabbed at him and pulled him back

to the ground during " circle time " because he didn't ask to get up I drew

the line. He had another therapist shortly after, but that was about 8

months of damage. Even that therapist who was a true autism specialist

that I trust and who understands my child did some things that were

inappropriate with an apraxic child. She wouldn't give him the stick to

blow bubbles until he said, " I want bubbles. " He couldn't! At this time I

highly suspected apraxia (as did his OT) and tried to explain it to the

therapist, but she didn't quite get it. Even now that we have a definitive

diagnosis from an expert she still doesn't quite understand (we keep in

touch as she helps another child at his preschool, but she is no longer his

therapist.) Had it been adapted to accept ANY sound attempt or even a

gesture or sign it might have been an ok exercise, but something that

reduces a child to tears and causes that much frustration that he tunes out

is not helpful. My son became very withdrawn and lost his normal happy

self while working with the first therapist I mentioned. He became more

uncooperative at any therapy session and stopped being excited when we

drove up to the early childhood center. His happiness improved when

therapies stopped! He's fine now with his new speech therapists who are

experts in apraxia (Prompt Institiute) and help him through the

difficulties he has. It too is positive reinforcement, but he never feels

confined to a chair, yet he happily sits in one the whole session!

The reason ABA was done was because my son has a diagnosis of autism at age

2.5 which we have never agreed with and now finally the schools are

disagreeing as well. From what I have seen with children here is that ABA

works better the more behavioral differences and social problems the child

has. It has done wonders for two children who have more of the behavioral

issues and social disconnect compared to my son who is there socially, but

just can't talk and has issues learning due to his significant language

delay (he also has receptive delays and just doesn't understand what is

asked.)

>So, I think what is saying, based upon speaking to her many times and

>reading her posts, that what is good for one isn't always good for others;

>and

>while she is by no means saying that ABA caused this child's death because it

> has helped many, some therapies do not help all children and parents should

>just be aware of that.

I like to say it's worth trying ABA, but keep a close eye on your

child. Don't let it last until he withdraws as much as my son did. It

does work for some, but a lot depends on the skills and interpretation of

ABA by the particular therapist. Unfortunately there are many poorly

trained therapists out there. And, as many of us know, every therapist

personality and style doesn't work for every child. It would be nice if we

had more choice, but without going privately that isn't always there.

Miche

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I know what you mean... We do ABA outside of our speech clinic, but we have

monthly meeting to let clear that Igor can not say worlds as asked. The

speech therapist send me papers everyday about what he is working with him,

and then we will repeat only the things that the speech therapist says it's

ok. My son doesn't have behavior problem (actually he is an angel ). We

use ABA to teach him how to read (using Edmark program), to improve social

language (using language for learning program), he just learn his phone

number and he is so proud of it. Our aba therapist was his aid at school too

for the first month but he was doing so well that we think that is not

necessary anymore. We use verbal aba. Our speech therapist uses prompt too

but she uses floortime, RDI and ABA in his session...it work fabulous!!! I'm

really happy to find them.

Giseli - Seattle / WA

Mom of Igor (5 years old – doing great!!!)

>From: Grassia <miche@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: [ ] Tragic story of two year old

>Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:03:40 -0700

>

>

> >Then we had therapists that said no they didn't do that kind of

> >strict ABA, but ended up, they did.

>

>The same happened with us. Some will say that is not ABA, but I believe it

>is poorly done ABA. Unfortunately there are MANY semi-trained therapists

>that interpret ABA to mean don't give in until a child says it. His first

>EI would force him to stay in a chair and hold his hands together. She

>didn't let him grab or gesture which was his way of communicating at that

>point. I was never comfortable with it, but then " they " say that you have

>to push limits in therapy. The day she grabbed at him and pulled him back

>to the ground during " circle time " because he didn't ask to get up I drew

>the line. He had another therapist shortly after, but that was about 8

>months of damage. Even that therapist who was a true autism specialist

>that I trust and who understands my child did some things that were

>inappropriate with an apraxic child. She wouldn't give him the stick to

>blow bubbles until he said, " I want bubbles. " He couldn't! At this time I

>highly suspected apraxia (as did his OT) and tried to explain it to the

>therapist, but she didn't quite get it. Even now that we have a definitive

>diagnosis from an expert she still doesn't quite understand (we keep in

>touch as she helps another child at his preschool, but she is no longer his

>therapist.) Had it been adapted to accept ANY sound attempt or even a

>gesture or sign it might have been an ok exercise, but something that

>reduces a child to tears and causes that much frustration that he tunes out

>is not helpful. My son became very withdrawn and lost his normal happy

>self while working with the first therapist I mentioned. He became more

>uncooperative at any therapy session and stopped being excited when we

>drove up to the early childhood center. His happiness improved when

>therapies stopped! He's fine now with his new speech therapists who are

>experts in apraxia (Prompt Institiute) and help him through the

>difficulties he has. It too is positive reinforcement, but he never feels

>confined to a chair, yet he happily sits in one the whole session!

>

>The reason ABA was done was because my son has a diagnosis of autism at age

>2.5 which we have never agreed with and now finally the schools are

>disagreeing as well. From what I have seen with children here is that ABA

>works better the more behavioral differences and social problems the child

>has. It has done wonders for two children who have more of the behavioral

>issues and social disconnect compared to my son who is there socially, but

>just can't talk and has issues learning due to his significant language

>delay (he also has receptive delays and just doesn't understand what is

>asked.)

>

> >So, I think what is saying, based upon speaking to her many times

>and

> >reading her posts, that what is good for one isn't always good for

>others;

> >and

> >while she is by no means saying that ABA caused this child's death

>because it

> > has helped many, some therapies do not help all children and parents

>should

> >just be aware of that.

>

>I like to say it's worth trying ABA, but keep a close eye on your

>child. Don't let it last until he withdraws as much as my son did. It

>does work for some, but a lot depends on the skills and interpretation of

>ABA by the particular therapist. Unfortunately there are many poorly

>trained therapists out there. And, as many of us know, every therapist

>personality and style doesn't work for every child. It would be nice if we

>had more choice, but without going privately that isn't always there.

>

>Miche

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the fact that this woman called herself an ABA therapist is

irrelevant to the story. ABA is a very helpful therapy when done

correctly - the parents have to be careful about checking the

therapist's credentials, just as they would with anyone who they

entrusted with their child.

ABA is beneficial at teaching social skills, language, reading, fine

motor skills, play skills, higher-level theory of mind, etc. It is not

merely for addressing negative behaviors. It is a comprehensive

therapy that addresses the child's areas of need.

Just as some of you have had bad experiences with ABA providers, I've

had bad experiences with pediatricians, daycare providers and speech

therapists. I've also known wonderful, skilled pediatricians, SLPs,

and daycare teachers. One bad apple isn't indicative of a profession.

[Guest guest]

Can you all explain what ABA is?

Amy mom to Kylie 3,apraxia,low muscle tone,left ear microtia

maryebe <eberlein@...> wrote:

I think the fact that this woman called herself an ABA therapist is

irrelevant to the story. ABA is a very helpful therapy when done

correctly - the parents have to be careful about checking the

therapist's credentials, just as they would with anyone who they

entrusted with their child.

ABA is beneficial at teaching social skills, language, reading, fine

motor skills, play skills, higher-level theory of mind, etc. It is not

merely for addressing negative behaviors. It is a comprehensive

therapy that addresses the child's areas of need.

Just as some of you have had bad experiences with ABA providers, I've

had bad experiences with pediatricians, daycare providers and speech

therapists. I've also known wonderful, skilled pediatricians, SLPs,

and daycare teachers. One bad apple isn't indicative of a profession.