Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Hi All, I am fairly new to the group, and my son was recently diagnosed with apraxia. I was curious after reading many posts, how many of you have children that have an apraxia and autism diagnosis? If you have both, at what age was the autism diagnosed and what age was the apraxia diagnosed? When did you start seeing signs of the autism? At this point, we only have a diagnosis of apraxia. Is there more of a chance to have autism also (since we already have the apraxia diagnosis)? Also, when are we " out of the woods " for autism? My son is 2yrs 5 months. Trying to learn as much as possible....... Thanks! Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 If you have both, at what age was the autism diagnosed and what age was the apraxia diagnosed? When did you start seeing signs of the autism? At this point, we only have a diagnosis of apraxia. Is there more of a chance to have autism also (since we already have the apraxia diagnosis)? Gage was first sent for ST at 2, when at that evaluation I mentioned his quirky behaviour, which led to another eval. and DX of SPD/SID and apraxia came about 4 months later, Gage just had his 4th birthday this past July 1st. after a few MRI's, Deprived sleep studies, CAT scans, auido appts galore, neuro appts, we are waiting on a final DX of Autism, but everyone who see's him says he is austic, mildly.... but like most here it isn't the DX it is getting the treatment they need..... -- Heidi www.allaboutgage.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 My youngest was diagnosed with both autism and apraxia, right around the time she turned 2. The language issues (and low tone) were the most obvious thing after she turned 1, and I probably only suspected ASD as well around 13-15 months because her older brother has ASD (but not apraxia). Both my kids have/had relatively mild autism (it's kind of like talking about a " mild " tsunami!), but if you know what to look for, it was pretty obvious. My daughter didn't regress the way my son did - she just never developed the social and language skills between 12 and 24 months the way her peers did. She's just fine now BTW due to great early intervention (therapy and medical treatment) and luck . According to the DSM, symptoms does your son have? If he doesn't have any signs of autism now (or really regardless), I would delay any vaccinations until he is at least 5, and consider skipping the MMR booster altogether (have his titers for measles checked instead - the vast majority of kids don't need a booster any way since they are already immune, and he's not required to have mumps or rubella again if he's had one MMR). If your child starts showing signs of ASD after he turns 3, don't let anyone tell you that means he has childhood disintegrative disorder. A child psychologist told me this about my son (she was wrong), and after I read about it some I was in a panic (which lasted until another psychologist told me that he really didn't fit the pattern). The prognosis is much worse for CDD than for ASD. good luck, > > Hi All, > > I am fairly new to the group, and my son was recently diagnosed with > apraxia. I was curious after reading many posts, how many of you have > children that have an apraxia and autism diagnosis? If you have both, > at what age was the autism diagnosed and what age was the apraxia > diagnosed? When did you start seeing signs of the autism? At this > point, we only have a diagnosis of apraxia. Is there more of a chance > to have autism also (since we already have the apraxia diagnosis)? > Also, when are we " out of the woods " for autism? My son is 2yrs 5 > months. Trying to learn as much as possible....... > > Thanks! > > Sandy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 THanks Heidi. What type of " quirky behavior " did he have that was a red flag? Did he always have the behavior since a young age? If I am being too personal, please let me know. I don't want to ask questions that make anyone feel uncomfortable. Thanks! Sandy > > If you have both, > at what age was the autism diagnosed and what age was the apraxia > diagnosed? When did you start seeing signs of the autism? At this > point, we only have a diagnosis of apraxia. Is there more of a chance > to have autism also (since we already have the apraxia diagnosis)? > > Gage was first sent for ST at 2, when at that evaluation I mentioned his quirky behaviour, which led to another eval. and DX of SPD/SID and apraxia came about 4 months later, Gage just had his 4th birthday this past July 1st. after a few MRI's, Deprived sleep studies, CAT scans, auido appts galore, neuro appts, we are waiting on a final DX of Autism, but everyone who see's him says he is austic, mildly.... > but like most here it isn't the DX it is getting the treatment they need..... > > -- > Heidi > www.allaboutgage.blogspot.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Hi Sandy, You are never " out of the woods " for autism. The average ages of diagnosis are 4, 7 and 12. Yes, you can have both. Our first diagnosis was apraxia, followed by PDD-NOS months later. In hindsight, the signs of autism were there very early on for us, even though they were subtle. First we had numerous viral and bacterial infections. That was coupled with excema, yeast infections, and drooling. Then came hypotonia and a sensitivity to sound and touch. Eventually almost all of her speech was lost. Good news is that our daughter actually had mercury poisoning, confirmed through several medical tests, and through her recovery by the process of removing the mercury from her body. She is now a mainstreamed kindergartner, with only a slight speech delay and subtle social issues. If you would like to email me off list, I'd be happy to share more. Good luck, -------------- Original message -------------- From: " Field " <esfield@...> Hi All, I am fairly new to the group, and my son was recently diagnosed with apraxia. I was curious after reading many posts, how many of you have children that have an apraxia and autism diagnosis? If you have both, at what age was the autism diagnosed and what age was the apraxia diagnosed? When did you start seeing signs of the autism? At this point, we only have a diagnosis of apraxia. Is there more of a chance to have autism also (since we already have the apraxia diagnosis)? Also, when are we " out of the woods " for autism? My son is 2yrs 5 months. Trying to learn as much as possible....... Thanks! Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Sandy you probably need to add to your questions what state do you live in because depending upon where you live you have a better chance of getting an autism diagnosis than one of apraxia. Even though that appears to be changing since there are now children in California diagnosed as apraxic without the mild autism label too. NJ is a really great place to get a diagnosis of apraxia or autism because there are so many of each type of child that even a truck driver there can spot the differences after awhile! Best thing to examine with your child is...is he improving based on the therapy he is now receiving based on his current diagnosis. If 3 months go by and you don't see progress -either it's the wrong diagnosis, wrong therapy, or wrong therapist. You should always see progress. But that is what a diagnosis is for -to help your child receive the appropriate therapy. To answer your other questions: A large amount of autistic children have underlying and in many cases undiagnosed speech and language impairments including apraxia. http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html Most apraxic children do not have autism. If you go to a local support group meeting you will see what I mean. Most apraxic children present as " just late talkers " As one mom said " He's so normal I could just smack him...but he can't talk " Ashlyn appears to be a perfect video example of a classic apraxic child http://www.debtsmart.net/talk/ashlyn.html (and no she doesn't to me appear as if she has been on any EFAs... if she has she has just started them or they aren't working for her) There has been only a 4 fold rise in autism in the same period of time there has been a 30 fold rise in speech and language disorders/impairments -there are just way more kids who can't talk today due to impairments in speech then kids who can't talk due to classic autism (well not 'classic' autism because years ago talking wasn't the main issue of autism) " the 2001 U.S. Department of Education statistics showed in children born in 1983 there were a total of 7,801 cases of speech or language impairment. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to 211,984 cases (an approximately 30-fold increase). In children born in 1983, there were a total of 2,100 cases of autism. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to 8,325 cases (an approximately 4-fold increase) " http://www.cherab.org/information/geiermd.html So why all the talk about autism? There is the school of thought that conditions like sensory integration dysfunction and apraxia (as well as a host of other diagnosis) are somewhere on the autism spectrum. And most children with apraxia today have two main aspects of autism today...they aren't talking...and they have sensory issues -so that's enough in itself for an autism diagnosis -or at least a PDD NOS diagnosis to some. That would be fine if the therapy would be the same for any condition -but for autistic/PDD children behavioral therapy is typically appropriate and the therapy of choice...for children that don't have autism or behavioral issues where behavioral therapies would be appropriate...ABA behavioral type therapies are not appropriate and can be, are documented in this group and in the news to be detrimental. http://www.cherab.org/news/.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive Admitted Child Abuser to Be Sentenced Friday, June 2, for Abusing Dy " webewords " webewords@... Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm Admitted child abuser Zucker-Klein of 30 Vista Trail, Wayne, NJ, will be sentenced to jail for endangering the welfare of a child for abusing a dyspraxic, nonverbal child she was tutoring at his home in Westwood, NJ. Under the guise of " behaviorism, " she subjected him to poking with a pen, slapping on the head, yanking his head back by his hair, punching him, putting a bag over his head, among other things, for taking too long to answer (using an augmentive device) a question or for getting an answer wrong. The parents caught her on tape. The sentencing will be at 9 a.m. Friday, June 2, 2006, in the court of Judge Roma, 4th Floor, Bergen County Courthouse in Hackensack, NJ. Any sympathetic parent who is nearby may want to be there for support. This messages is posted by relatives of the victim, who wish to remain anonymous. I ask the several members who may know our email address to keep our names secret. " (archive message seeking support from the family back in May) /message/48587 ~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive ABA is just about the only or 'the' only therapy spoken about in this group which has the " proceed with caution baby on board " attached to it. This is probably why the confusion in some not wanting the diagnosis as much as the treatment. Too many today want to shove square shapes into the large circle hole because it's easier then trying to understand the square you know nothing about. With autism being such a buzz word -it's easier for most of us with apraxic children at some point in trying to quickly explain apraxia to say after a long lengthy conversation where they don't " get " apraxia to say " it's like autism in where it's a spectrum disorder, but it's not autism " So yes there are of course children in this group who have both autism and apraxia...fewer who were diagnosed with apraxia and then autism...but most rare are those parents like Jeannie Buesser who have one child with apraxia and one with autism http://www.eparent.com/welcome/momsnight.htm Jeannie advocates more for apraxia then autism because her son with autism receives all the services he needs without any fighting on her part....her apraxic child needs a voice too. To me, parents like Jeannie are the best ones to speak about differences. The second best for most of us is to join a support group and get to know the other families/children in the group. http://www.speechville.com/communication-station/regional-support-groups.html Treat the symptoms you are seeing, because both apraxia and autism are multi faceted spectrum like conditions that overlap with each other in some areas. But to believe that anyone that has sensory issues is autistic is just silly. Anyone can get a head injury and develop sensory integration dysfunction and that does not mean they developed autism. And if DSI and apraxia do mean autism...then someone needs to change the rules of what helps autistic children -because my son Tanner is doing amazing as a mainstreamed student. Very social and now doing some 5th grade work even though he is only in the 4th grade. And Tanner was raised as if he was apraxic. Lots of ST and OT as well as alternative therapies including auditory and cranial sacral and tons and tons of EFAs...and speaking in initials -no ABA except for when his public school preschool tried it once as posted in the archives - which is one of the reasons we were able to advocate for out of district placement...because that therapy was inappropriate for Tanner...and those like him. http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 THanks Heidi. What type of " quirky behavior " did he have that was a red flag? Did he always have the behavior since a young age? If I am being too personal, please let me know. I don't want to ask questions that make anyone feel uncomfortable. Thanks! Sandy Sandy, our lives are open books, always feel free to ask me anything!! Gage from about 6 months would take hotwheel cars, turn them upside down and spin them, faster than any top I had ever seen, then he moved on to any object that he could spin, even salt & pepper shakers at my neighbors house.he can also spin himself around and around and never fall down never get dizzy,nothing. it was unreal in fact he would ask Dad to spin him and the more he spun the happier he got, he would also sit and stare at celing fans, a lot of echolalia (or echoing any sound he heard) he had words until about 14 months then just stopped. he is 4 now and still a lot of echolalia but he is starting some speech!! -- Heidi www.allaboutgage.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 How did she have mercury poisoning was it from vitamins or what .Did they just drawn blood to see that she had it? Thanks Merci julieobradovic@... wrote: Hi Sandy, You are never " out of the woods " for autism. The average ages of diagnosis are 4, 7 and 12. Yes, you can have both. Our first diagnosis was apraxia, followed by PDD-NOS months later. In hindsight, the signs of autism were there very early on for us, even though they were subtle. First we had numerous viral and bacterial infections. That was coupled with excema, yeast infections, and drooling. Then came hypotonia and a sensitivity to sound and touch. Eventually almost all of her speech was lost. Good news is that our daughter actually had mercury poisoning, confirmed through several medical tests, and through her recovery by the process of removing the mercury from her body. She is now a mainstreamed kindergartner, with only a slight speech delay and subtle social issues. If you would like to email me off list, I'd be happy to share more. Good luck, -------------- Original message -------------- From: " Field " <esfield@...> Hi All, I am fairly new to the group, and my son was recently diagnosed with apraxia. I was curious after reading many posts, how many of you have children that have an apraxia and autism diagnosis? If you have both, at what age was the autism diagnosed and what age was the apraxia diagnosed? When did you start seeing signs of the autism? At this point, we only have a diagnosis of apraxia. Is there more of a chance to have autism also (since we already have the apraxia diagnosis)? Also, when are we " out of the woods " for autism? My son is 2yrs 5 months. Trying to learn as much as possible....... Thanks! Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Hi, - Once again, you have written something that I can use for Josh! I've walked into IEPs with The Late Talker, I've walked in with various emails containing links regarding apraxia and sensory dysfunction. Today I see your email concerning the autism v. apraxia issue with links that are great. Now we're facing a new school district that, notwithstanding that no ped neuro or any other doc has ever said Josh had autism, has decided Josh fits into " educational autism " and has placed him in a classroom with only autistic kids. BTW, I'm pretty familiar with the DSM and there is nothing called " educational autism. " In researching it on the net, it appears its a fiction (my word) that schools have developed in order to get more kids into the spectrum (and I presume more money from the state and feds). The ex and I are furious and have been trying to fight it for the last month. We go again next Friday to confront them and if they don't agree to play ball, we're going to due process. The district won't even mainstream Josh into any of the classes he had been mainstreamed in the old " po-dunk " district we had been in. This new district won't agree (or at least hasn't yet) to individual speech therapy more than 1 time a week - in fact, the speech evaluation that they did when we moved here doesn't even reflect verbal/oral apraxia or dysarthria. I confronted the speech therapist the other night at a curriculum night and, after asking what therapy she was using and reminding her that Josh is apraxic, she asked me who diagnosed him with apraxia. I very nicely said Kaufman, the woman whose therapy system is used in this very district confirmed the diagnosis and also diagnosed dysarthria. That shut her up. But, in the meantime, Josh isn't getting the speech or OT he needs, PT hasn't even started even though it's in the IEP, he's in a developmentally inappropriate setting, and he's not being mainstreamed at all. And, the school has yet to implement some of the classroom modifications (slant board, etc.) that Josh needs - even in the wrong classroom! Wish me luck - I thought this new district would be great but it's turning out to be a nightmare! Sherry kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote: Sandy you probably need to add to your questions what state do you live in because depending upon where you live you have a better chance of getting an autism diagnosis than one of apraxia. Even though that appears to be changing since there are now children in California diagnosed as apraxic without the mild autism label too. NJ is a really great place to get a diagnosis of apraxia or autism because there are so many of each type of child that even a truck driver there can spot the differences after awhile! Best thing to examine with your child is...is he improving based on the therapy he is now receiving based on his current diagnosis. If 3 months go by and you don't see progress -either it's the wrong diagnosis, wrong therapy, or wrong therapist. You should always see progress. But that is what a diagnosis is for -to help your child receive the appropriate therapy. To answer your other questions: A large amount of autistic children have underlying and in many cases undiagnosed speech and language impairments including apraxia. http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html Most apraxic children do not have autism. If you go to a local support group meeting you will see what I mean. Most apraxic children present as " just late talkers " As one mom said " He's so normal I could just smack him...but he can't talk " Ashlyn appears to be a perfect video example of a classic apraxic child http://www.debtsmart.net/talk/ashlyn.html (and no she doesn't to me appear as if she has been on any EFAs... if she has she has just started them or they aren't working for her) There has been only a 4 fold rise in autism in the same period of time there has been a 30 fold rise in speech and language disorders/impairments -there are just way more kids who can't talk today due to impairments in speech then kids who can't talk due to classic autism (well not 'classic' autism because years ago talking wasn't the main issue of autism) " the 2001 U.S. Department of Education statistics showed in children born in 1983 there were a total of 7,801 cases of speech or language impairment. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to 211,984 cases (an approximately 30-fold increase). In children born in 1983, there were a total of 2,100 cases of autism. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to 8,325 cases (an approximately 4-fold increase) " http://www.cherab.org/information/geiermd.html So why all the talk about autism? There is the school of thought that conditions like sensory integration dysfunction and apraxia (as well as a host of other diagnosis) are somewhere on the autism spectrum. And most children with apraxia today have two main aspects of autism today...they aren't talking...and they have sensory issues -so that's enough in itself for an autism diagnosis -or at least a PDD NOS diagnosis to some. That would be fine if the therapy would be the same for any condition -but for autistic/PDD children behavioral therapy is typically appropriate and the therapy of choice...for children that don't have autism or behavioral issues where behavioral therapies would be appropriate...ABA behavioral type therapies are not appropriate and can be, are documented in this group and in the news to be detrimental. http://www.cherab.org/news/.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive Admitted Child Abuser to Be Sentenced Friday, June 2, for Abusing Dy " webewords " webewords@... Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm Admitted child abuser Zucker-Klein of 30 Vista Trail, Wayne, NJ, will be sentenced to jail for endangering the welfare of a child for abusing a dyspraxic, nonverbal child she was tutoring at his home in Westwood, NJ. Under the guise of " behaviorism, " she subjected him to poking with a pen, slapping on the head, yanking his head back by his hair, punching him, putting a bag over his head, among other things, for taking too long to answer (using an augmentive device) a question or for getting an answer wrong. The parents caught her on tape. The sentencing will be at 9 a.m. Friday, June 2, 2006, in the court of Judge Roma, 4th Floor, Bergen County Courthouse in Hackensack, NJ. Any sympathetic parent who is nearby may want to be there for support. This messages is posted by relatives of the victim, who wish to remain anonymous. I ask the several members who may know our email address to keep our names secret. " (archive message seeking support from the family back in May) /message/48587 ~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive ABA is just about the only or 'the' only therapy spoken about in this group which has the " proceed with caution baby on board " attached to it. This is probably why the confusion in some not wanting the diagnosis as much as the treatment. Too many today want to shove square shapes into the large circle hole because it's easier then trying to understand the square you know nothing about. With autism being such a buzz word -it's easier for most of us with apraxic children at some point in trying to quickly explain apraxia to say after a long lengthy conversation where they don't " get " apraxia to say " it's like autism in where it's a spectrum disorder, but it's not autism " So yes there are of course children in this group who have both autism and apraxia...fewer who were diagnosed with apraxia and then autism...but most rare are those parents like Jeannie Buesser who have one child with apraxia and one with autism http://www.eparent.com/welcome/momsnight.htm Jeannie advocates more for apraxia then autism because her son with autism receives all the services he needs without any fighting on her part....her apraxic child needs a voice too. To me, parents like Jeannie are the best ones to speak about differences. The second best for most of us is to join a support group and get to know the other families/children in the group. http://www.speechville.com/communication-station/regional-support-groups.html Treat the symptoms you are seeing, because both apraxia and autism are multi faceted spectrum like conditions that overlap with each other in some areas. But to believe that anyone that has sensory issues is autistic is just silly. Anyone can get a head injury and develop sensory integration dysfunction and that does not mean they developed autism. And if DSI and apraxia do mean autism...then someone needs to change the rules of what helps autistic children -because my son Tanner is doing amazing as a mainstreamed student. Very social and now doing some 5th grade work even though he is only in the 4th grade. And Tanner was raised as if he was apraxic. Lots of ST and OT as well as alternative therapies including auditory and cranial sacral and tons and tons of EFAs...and speaking in initials -no ABA except for when his public school preschool tried it once as posted in the archives - which is one of the reasons we were able to advocate for out of district placement...because that therapy was inappropriate for Tanner...and those like him. http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Hi, - Once again, you have written something that I can use for Josh! I've walked into IEPs with The Late Talker, I've walked in with various emails containing links regarding apraxia and sensory dysfunction. Today I see your email concerning the autism v. apraxia issue with links that are great. Now we're facing a new school district that, notwithstanding that no ped neuro or any other doc has ever said Josh had autism, has decided Josh fits into " educational autism " and has placed him in a classroom with only autistic kids. BTW, I'm pretty familiar with the DSM and there is nothing called " educational autism. " In researching it on the net, it appears its a fiction (my word) that schools have developed in order to get more kids into the spectrum (and I presume more money from the state and feds). The ex and I are furious and have been trying to fight it for the last month. We go again next Friday to confront them and if they don't agree to play ball, we're going to due process. The district won't even mainstream Josh into any of the classes he had been mainstreamed in the old " po-dunk " district we had been in. This new district won't agree (or at least hasn't yet) to individual speech therapy more than 1 time a week - in fact, the speech evaluation that they did when we moved here doesn't even reflect verbal/oral apraxia or dysarthria. I confronted the speech therapist the other night at a curriculum night and, after asking what therapy she was using and reminding her that Josh is apraxic, she asked me who diagnosed him with apraxia. I very nicely said Kaufman, the woman whose therapy system is used in this very district confirmed the diagnosis and also diagnosed dysarthria. That shut her up. But, in the meantime, Josh isn't getting the speech or OT he needs, PT hasn't even started even though it's in the IEP, he's in a developmentally inappropriate setting, and he's not being mainstreamed at all. And, the school has yet to implement some of the classroom modifications (slant board, etc.) that Josh needs - even in the wrong classroom! Wish me luck - I thought this new district would be great but it's turning out to be a nightmare! Sherry kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote: Sandy you probably need to add to your questions what state do you live in because depending upon where you live you have a better chance of getting an autism diagnosis than one of apraxia. Even though that appears to be changing since there are now children in California diagnosed as apraxic without the mild autism label too. NJ is a really great place to get a diagnosis of apraxia or autism because there are so many of each type of child that even a truck driver there can spot the differences after awhile! Best thing to examine with your child is...is he improving based on the therapy he is now receiving based on his current diagnosis. If 3 months go by and you don't see progress -either it's the wrong diagnosis, wrong therapy, or wrong therapist. You should always see progress. But that is what a diagnosis is for -to help your child receive the appropriate therapy. To answer your other questions: A large amount of autistic children have underlying and in many cases undiagnosed speech and language impairments including apraxia. http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html Most apraxic children do not have autism. If you go to a local support group meeting you will see what I mean. Most apraxic children present as " just late talkers " As one mom said " He's so normal I could just smack him...but he can't talk " Ashlyn appears to be a perfect video example of a classic apraxic child http://www.debtsmart.net/talk/ashlyn.html (and no she doesn't to me appear as if she has been on any EFAs... if she has she has just started them or they aren't working for her) There has been only a 4 fold rise in autism in the same period of time there has been a 30 fold rise in speech and language disorders/impairments -there are just way more kids who can't talk today due to impairments in speech then kids who can't talk due to classic autism (well not 'classic' autism because years ago talking wasn't the main issue of autism) " the 2001 U.S. Department of Education statistics showed in children born in 1983 there were a total of 7,801 cases of speech or language impairment. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to 211,984 cases (an approximately 30-fold increase). In children born in 1983, there were a total of 2,100 cases of autism. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to 8,325 cases (an approximately 4-fold increase) " http://www.cherab.org/information/geiermd.html So why all the talk about autism? There is the school of thought that conditions like sensory integration dysfunction and apraxia (as well as a host of other diagnosis) are somewhere on the autism spectrum. And most children with apraxia today have two main aspects of autism today...they aren't talking...and they have sensory issues -so that's enough in itself for an autism diagnosis -or at least a PDD NOS diagnosis to some. That would be fine if the therapy would be the same for any condition -but for autistic/PDD children behavioral therapy is typically appropriate and the therapy of choice...for children that don't have autism or behavioral issues where behavioral therapies would be appropriate...ABA behavioral type therapies are not appropriate and can be, are documented in this group and in the news to be detrimental. http://www.cherab.org/news/.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive Admitted Child Abuser to Be Sentenced Friday, June 2, for Abusing Dy " webewords " webewords@... Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm Admitted child abuser Zucker-Klein of 30 Vista Trail, Wayne, NJ, will be sentenced to jail for endangering the welfare of a child for abusing a dyspraxic, nonverbal child she was tutoring at his home in Westwood, NJ. Under the guise of " behaviorism, " she subjected him to poking with a pen, slapping on the head, yanking his head back by his hair, punching him, putting a bag over his head, among other things, for taking too long to answer (using an augmentive device) a question or for getting an answer wrong. The parents caught her on tape. The sentencing will be at 9 a.m. Friday, June 2, 2006, in the court of Judge Roma, 4th Floor, Bergen County Courthouse in Hackensack, NJ. Any sympathetic parent who is nearby may want to be there for support. This messages is posted by relatives of the victim, who wish to remain anonymous. I ask the several members who may know our email address to keep our names secret. " (archive message seeking support from the family back in May) /message/48587 ~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive ABA is just about the only or 'the' only therapy spoken about in this group which has the " proceed with caution baby on board " attached to it. This is probably why the confusion in some not wanting the diagnosis as much as the treatment. Too many today want to shove square shapes into the large circle hole because it's easier then trying to understand the square you know nothing about. With autism being such a buzz word -it's easier for most of us with apraxic children at some point in trying to quickly explain apraxia to say after a long lengthy conversation where they don't " get " apraxia to say " it's like autism in where it's a spectrum disorder, but it's not autism " So yes there are of course children in this group who have both autism and apraxia...fewer who were diagnosed with apraxia and then autism...but most rare are those parents like Jeannie Buesser who have one child with apraxia and one with autism http://www.eparent.com/welcome/momsnight.htm Jeannie advocates more for apraxia then autism because her son with autism receives all the services he needs without any fighting on her part....her apraxic child needs a voice too. To me, parents like Jeannie are the best ones to speak about differences. The second best for most of us is to join a support group and get to know the other families/children in the group. http://www.speechville.com/communication-station/regional-support-groups.html Treat the symptoms you are seeing, because both apraxia and autism are multi faceted spectrum like conditions that overlap with each other in some areas. But to believe that anyone that has sensory issues is autistic is just silly. Anyone can get a head injury and develop sensory integration dysfunction and that does not mean they developed autism. And if DSI and apraxia do mean autism...then someone needs to change the rules of what helps autistic children -because my son Tanner is doing amazing as a mainstreamed student. Very social and now doing some 5th grade work even though he is only in the 4th grade. And Tanner was raised as if he was apraxic. Lots of ST and OT as well as alternative therapies including auditory and cranial sacral and tons and tons of EFAs...and speaking in initials -no ABA except for when his public school preschool tried it once as posted in the archives - which is one of the reasons we were able to advocate for out of district placement...because that therapy was inappropriate for Tanner...and those like him. http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Sherry, the worst possible placement for a child with autism is in a classroom of only kids with autism. So even given their pseudo-diagnosis, he still has a right to LRE. I would raise a lot of hell. Tell them in your next ARD meeting (and I would ask for one right away) that you dispute their " diagnosis " and tell them you want an independent evaluation. You have a right to an independent eval, particularly since the professionals you've seen haven't given him the diagnosis they are claiming is accurate. Maybe they just don't " get " yet that you are no pushover . good luck! > Sandy you probably need to add to your questions what state do you > live in because depending upon where you live you have a better > chance of getting an autism diagnosis than one of apraxia. Even > though that appears to be changing since there are now children in > California diagnosed as apraxic without the mild autism label too. > NJ is a really great place to get a diagnosis of apraxia or autism > because there are so many of each type of child that even a truck > driver there can spot the differences after awhile! > > Best thing to examine with your child is...is he improving based on > the therapy he is now receiving based on his current diagnosis. If > 3 months go by and you don't see progress -either it's the wrong > diagnosis, wrong therapy, or wrong therapist. You should always see > progress. But that is what a diagnosis is for -to help your child > receive the appropriate therapy. > > To answer your other questions: A large amount of autistic children > have underlying and in many cases undiagnosed speech and language > impairments including apraxia. > http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html > > Most apraxic children do not have autism. If you go to a local > support group meeting you will see what I mean. Most apraxic > children present as " just late talkers " As one mom said " He's so > normal I could just smack him...but he can't talk " > Ashlyn appears to be a perfect video example of a classic apraxic child > http://www.debtsmart.net/talk/ashlyn.html > (and no she doesn't to me appear as if she has been on any EFAs... > if she has she has just started them or they aren't working for her) > > There has been only a 4 fold rise in autism in the same period of > time there has been a 30 fold rise in speech and language > disorders/impairments -there are just way more kids who can't talk > today due to impairments in speech then kids who can't talk due to > classic autism (well not 'classic' autism because years ago talking > wasn't the main issue of autism) > > " the 2001 U.S. Department of Education statistics showed in children > born in 1983 there were a total of 7,801 cases of speech or language > impairment. Among children born in 1994, this number had risen to > 211,984 cases (an approximately 30-fold increase). In children born > in 1983, there were a total of 2,100 cases of autism. Among children > born in 1994, this number had risen to 8,325 cases (an approximately > 4-fold increase) " > http://www.cherab.org/information/geiermd.html > > So why all the talk about autism? > > There is the school of thought that conditions like sensory > integration dysfunction and apraxia (as well as a host of other > diagnosis) are somewhere on the autism spectrum. And most children > with apraxia today have two main aspects of autism today...they > aren't talking...and they have sensory issues -so that's enough in > itself for an autism diagnosis -or at least a PDD NOS diagnosis to > some. > > That would be fine if the therapy would be the same for any > condition -but for autistic/PDD children behavioral therapy is > typically appropriate and the therapy of choice...for children that > don't have autism or behavioral issues where behavioral therapies > would be appropriate...ABA behavioral type therapies are not > appropriate and can be, are documented in this group and in the news > to be detrimental. > > http://www.cherab.org/news/.html > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive > > Admitted Child Abuser to Be Sentenced Friday, June 2, for Abusing Dy > " webewords " webewords@... > Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm > > Admitted child abuser Zucker-Klein of 30 Vista Trail, Wayne, > NJ, > will be sentenced to jail for endangering the welfare of a child for > abusing a dyspraxic, nonverbal child she was tutoring at his home in > Westwood, NJ. > > Under the guise of " behaviorism, " she subjected him to poking with a > pen, slapping on the head, yanking his head back by his hair, > punching > him, putting a bag over his head, among other things, for taking too > long to answer (using an augmentive device) a question or for getting > an answer wrong. The parents caught her on tape. > > The sentencing will be at 9 a.m. Friday, June 2, 2006, in the court > of > Judge Roma, 4th Floor, Bergen County Courthouse in > Hackensack, > NJ. Any sympathetic parent who is nearby may want to be there for > support. > > This messages is posted by relatives of the victim, who wish to > remain > anonymous. I ask the several members who may know our email address > to > keep our names secret. " > > (archive message seeking support from the family back in May) > /message/48587 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive > > ABA is just about the only or 'the' only therapy spoken about in > this group which has the " proceed with caution baby on board " > attached to it. > > This is probably why the confusion in some not wanting the diagnosis > as much as the treatment. Too many today want to shove square > shapes into the large circle hole because it's easier then trying to > understand the square you know nothing about. With autism being > such a buzz word -it's easier for most of us with apraxic children > at some point in trying to quickly explain apraxia to say after a > long lengthy conversation where they don't " get " apraxia to > say " it's like autism in where it's a spectrum disorder, but it's > not autism " > > So yes there are of course children in this group who have both > autism and apraxia...fewer who were diagnosed with apraxia and then > autism...but most rare are those parents like Jeannie Buesser who > have one child with apraxia and one with autism > http://www.eparent.com/welcome/momsnight.htm > Jeannie advocates more for apraxia then autism because > her son with autism receives all the services he needs without > any fighting on her part....her apraxic child needs a voice too. > > To me, parents like Jeannie are the best ones to speak about differences. > The second best for most of us is to join a support group and get to > know the other families/children in the group. > http://www.speechville.com/communication-station/regional-support-groups.html > > Treat the symptoms you are seeing, because both apraxia and autism > are multi faceted spectrum like conditions that overlap with each > other in some areas. But to believe that anyone that has sensory > issues is autistic is just silly. Anyone can get a head injury and > develop sensory integration dysfunction and that does not mean they > developed autism. > > And if DSI and apraxia do mean autism...then someone needs to change > the rules of what helps autistic children -because my son Tanner is > doing amazing as a mainstreamed student. Very social and now doing > some 5th grade work even though he is only in the 4th grade. And > Tanner was raised as if he was apraxic. Lots of ST and OT as well > as alternative therapies including auditory and cranial sacral and > tons and tons of EFAs...and speaking in initials -no ABA except for > when his public school preschool tried it once as posted in the archives - > which is one of the reasons we were able to advocate for out of > district placement...because that therapy was inappropriate for > Tanner...and those like him. > http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html > > ===== > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Sandy, My son was diagnosed at 2.5 with verbal apraxia. My motherly instincts believed there was something more. I believed he was being poisoned from within. I visited a DAN nutritionist and my instincts were confirmed he had a leaky gut and a nutritional plan followed to clean him up. Go with your gut feelings and have your child evaluated by several professionals to confirm your feelings. Audiologist - who tests for central auditory processing disorders as well as hearing. He may have hypersensitivities in his auditory system. Speech Pathologist - who has the 3 c's after their name to test for speech and language skills (apraxia) Developmental Optometrist - tests not only for 20/20 vision but for visual perception skills You can also search www.covd.org , www.oep.org, and www.optometrists.org to see if you can find a local doctor. Further, you can search www.linguisystems.com for visual perceptual resource materials, www.lexia.com for a product called cross train, www.oep.org for materials, www.academictherapy.com for materials. Also, go to doctorstephey.processingskills.com Occupational therapist- If you need to find an OT with sensory integrated dysfunction therapy here is a link to look at Jane Ayres Trust endorsed, USC/WPS is the source for finding SI certified therapists! Read article link and see therapist locator link below: Article: Ayres Trust Endorses USC/WPS Sensory Integration Praxis Test Certification http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/6/prweb131367.htm Find certified therapists around the world via this link below: http://www.wpspublish.com/Inetpub4/w090308.htm Here is the website for sensory learning. They have a good homepage that helps you understand what it is: http://www.sensorylearning.com/ Here is another link that explains the theory behind sensory learning: http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Mind_Matters/bolles62.h tm Please email me privately if you need more information or have any questions. I cannot diagnose your child but I can tell you with the right therapy and early intervention the prognosis is good. My son had many issues and was close to being on the autistic spectrum, but with DAN intervention, speech and language therapy, Occupational therapy, biomedical testing, and sound therapy (AIT & Tomatis) he entered Kindergarten at the age of 6 (August birthday) and academically doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Sandy, My son was diagnosed at 2.5 with verbal apraxia. My motherly instincts believed there was something more. I believed he was being poisoned from within. I visited a DAN nutritionist and my instincts were confirmed he had a leaky gut and a nutritional plan followed to clean him up. Go with your gut feelings and have your child evaluated by several professionals to confirm your feelings. Audiologist - who tests for central auditory processing disorders as well as hearing. He may have hypersensitivities in his auditory system. Speech Pathologist - who has the 3 c's after their name to test for speech and language skills (apraxia) Developmental Optometrist - tests not only for 20/20 vision but for visual perception skills You can also search www.covd.org , www.oep.org, and www.optometrists.org to see if you can find a local doctor. Further, you can search www.linguisystems.com for visual perceptual resource materials, www.lexia.com for a product called cross train, www.oep.org for materials, www.academictherapy.com for materials. Also, go to doctorstephey.processingskills.com Occupational therapist- If you need to find an OT with sensory integrated dysfunction therapy here is a link to look at Jane Ayres Trust endorsed, USC/WPS is the source for finding SI certified therapists! Read article link and see therapist locator link below: Article: Ayres Trust Endorses USC/WPS Sensory Integration Praxis Test Certification http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/6/prweb131367.htm Find certified therapists around the world via this link below: http://www.wpspublish.com/Inetpub4/w090308.htm Here is the website for sensory learning. They have a good homepage that helps you understand what it is: http://www.sensorylearning.com/ Here is another link that explains the theory behind sensory learning: http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Mind_Matters/bolles62.h tm Please email me privately if you need more information or have any questions. I cannot diagnose your child but I can tell you with the right therapy and early intervention the prognosis is good. My son had many issues and was close to being on the autistic spectrum, but with DAN intervention, speech and language therapy, Occupational therapy, biomedical testing, and sound therapy (AIT & Tomatis) he entered Kindergarten at the age of 6 (August birthday) and academically doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 In a message dated 9/7/2006 11:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, julieobradovic@... writes: Good news is that our daughter actually had mercury poisoning, confirmed through several medical tests, and through her recovery by the process of removing the mercury from her body. I read your post on the mercury poisoning and that you are in the process of removing the mercury - can you give us some insight on what method you are using? Thanks, Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 In a message dated 9/7/2006 11:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, julieobradovic@... writes: Good news is that our daughter actually had mercury poisoning, confirmed through several medical tests, and through her recovery by the process of removing the mercury from her body. I read your post on the mercury poisoning and that you are in the process of removing the mercury - can you give us some insight on what method you are using? Thanks, Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 We use a chelation protocol developed by Dr. Hall Cutler, a PhD, not MD. It involves using DMSA and ALA (oral supplements) in low doses every 3-4 hours over a period of 3 days. Each 3 days is called a round. We will complete 100 rounds, which may take up to 4 years. (Every other weekend.) We use supportive therapies that include, but are not limited to, methyl b12 injections, cod liver oil, probiotics, nystatin, zinc, folic acid, digestive enzymes, calcium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, a multi-vitamin, and high dose vitamin c. For more information, feel free to email me off list personally, or visit the autism treatment group or research the DAN! protocol for treating the autism spectrum. My description is very, very limited. To find a DAN! doctor, visit www.ari.com To date we have completed 38 rounds, beginning in May of 05. By February 06, about 20 rounds into it, she was released from the Early Childhood Intervention program at our school, no longer qualifying for services. She was always on the mild end of the spectrum, which I want to emphasize as being the reason for such a quick improvement. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Ratliffp@... In a message dated 9/7/2006 11:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, julieobradovic@... writes: Good news is that our daughter actually had mercury poisoning, confirmed through several medical tests, and through her recovery by the process of removing the mercury from her body. I read your post on the mercury poisoning and that you are in the process of removing the mercury - can you give us some insight on what method you are using? Thanks, Phyllis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 , thank you for your response. Phyllis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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