Re: GI Upset with Fish Oil

[Guest guest]

Try probiotics...

Also we feed ph quite a few bananas - helps with the loose stools that

we too saw with the higher doses. -claudia

[ ] GI Upset with Fish Oil

Hi Guys,

My son, 2y 10m, is currently taking 2 EFA's in the morning

and 1 EPA in the morning plus another EPA in the afternoon. I

started out doing the same regimen in the morning and afternoon, but

he developed GI upset. He even vomited a couple times, so I cut back

down to the current schedule. He is still having GI upset with lots

of burping and seeming discomfort (I think it makes him not want to

take them). But on the bright side, we have seen a huge leap in his

coordination and speech since adding in the EPA's and going to twice

a day dosing. So I am sort of in a dillema here and I was wondering

if anyone else had experienced this and had any advice for me. I

would hate to cut back further on the fish oil because I can really

see the difference, but I hate to see him feeling so punk and all

the vomiting is getting a bit old.

Anyone have any suggestions to help him maintain the current

schedule. Also, how long does it usually take for them to adjust to

the increased fat in the diet and start producing more lipase? Do

they ever just get used to it with time?

-Valery

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I don't know anything about probiotics (except what I have seen in yogurt). In

what form

do you give it? How frequently? Is there a company you use?

just vomited again after the fish oil. I really don't think he is going

to be able to

tolerate the higher dosage. I think we will go back to once a day dosing for

while and see

how he does.

-Valery

>

> Try probiotics...

>

> Also we feed ph quite a few bananas - helps with the loose stools that

> we too saw with the higher doses. -claudia

>

> [ ] GI Upset with Fish Oil

>

>

> Hi Guys,

>

> My son, 2y 10m, is currently taking 2 EFA's in the morning

> and 1 EPA in the morning plus another EPA in the afternoon. I

> started out doing the same regimen in the morning and afternoon, but

> he developed GI upset. He even vomited a couple times, so I cut back

> down to the current schedule. He is still having GI upset with lots

> of burping and seeming discomfort (I think it makes him not want to

> take them). But on the bright side, we have seen a huge leap in his

> coordination and speech since adding in the EPA's and going to twice

> a day dosing. So I am sort of in a dillema here and I was wondering

> if anyone else had experienced this and had any advice for me. I

> would hate to cut back further on the fish oil because I can really

> see the difference, but I hate to see him feeling so punk and all

> the vomiting is getting a bit old.

>

> Anyone have any suggestions to help him maintain the current

> schedule. Also, how long does it usually take for them to adjust to

> the increased fat in the diet and start producing more lipase? Do

> they ever just get used to it with time?

>

> -Valery

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll send you the brand info tomorrow. We initially started my older son on

it a few years back when trying to get his gut issues under control, and he

actually got violently ill. Turns out the brand I was using was made with

milk and soy. I now have a milk/soy/gluten free chewable capsule I give the

kids. It seemed to help settle the stomach. I gave it to the baby as well

recently because he caught a bad bout of rotavirus, and was vomiting with

diarrhea for over a week. We were still able to get the omegas down,

amazingly enough. I give a capsule with meals when their stomach is

unhappy, then back to just in the AM once a day when well. It helps but is

not a fix. Are you mixing the fish oil in anything or giving it straight?

Makes sense to go back to once a day til things settle down.

We are finally back to where we were before we ran out of EPA. ph is now

an unstoppable chatterbox. -

R. , MD

Attending Physician

Director of Fellowship Research

Pediatric Emergency Medicine

Department of Emergency Medicine

Children's Hospital & Research Center at Oakland

747 52nd Street

Oakland, CA 94609

pager: 510 539-2514

[ ] GI Upset with Fish Oil

>

>

> Hi Guys,

>

> My son, 2y 10m, is currently taking 2 EFA's in the morning

> and 1 EPA in the morning plus another EPA in the afternoon. I

> started out doing the same regimen in the morning and afternoon, but

> he developed GI upset. He even vomited a couple times, so I cut back

> down to the current schedule. He is still having GI upset with lots

> of burping and seeming discomfort (I think it makes him not want to

> take them). But on the bright side, we have seen a huge leap in his

> coordination and speech since adding in the EPA's and going to twice

> a day dosing. So I am sort of in a dillema here and I was wondering

> if anyone else had experienced this and had any advice for me. I

> would hate to cut back further on the fish oil because I can really

> see the difference, but I hate to see him feeling so punk and all

> the vomiting is getting a bit old.

>

> Anyone have any suggestions to help him maintain the current

> schedule. Also, how long does it usually take for them to adjust to

> the increased fat in the diet and start producing more lipase? Do

> they ever just get used to it with time?

>

> -Valery

>

[Guest guest]

Is it my imagination or has there been a change in the formulation of

the latest batches of ProEFA? And if so, is that why we are getting

more reports of GI problems?

Peace,

Kathy E.

On Mar 27, 2006, at 6:12 PM, valerychamberlin wrote:

> Hi Guys,

>

> My son, 2y 10m, is currently taking 2 EFA's in the morning

> and 1 EPA in the morning plus another EPA in the afternoon. I

> started out doing the same regimen in the morning and afternoon, but

> he developed GI upset. He even vomited a couple times, so I cut back

> down to the current schedule. He is still having GI upset with lots

> of burping and seeming discomfort (I think it makes him not want to

> take them). But on the bright side, we have seen a huge leap in his

> coordination and speech since adding in the EPA's and going to twice

> a day dosing. So I am sort of in a dillema here and I was wondering

> if anyone else had experienced this and had any advice for me. I

> would hate to cut back further on the fish oil because I can really

> see the difference, but I hate to see him feeling so punk and all

> the vomiting is getting a bit old.

>

> Anyone have any suggestions to help him maintain the current

> schedule. Also, how long does it usually take for them to adjust to

> the increased fat in the diet and start producing more lipase? Do

> they ever just get used to it with time?

>

> -Valery

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy!

We know that there are quite a few more today exploring higher

dosages in a way shorter period of time. In our group years ago

some kept their child on one capsule for years! Typically however

most would only be up to 3 capsules after a year -not a week or a

month.

Even at the low dosages there were a few people that reported mild

loose stools. Therefore to me it's understandable and obvious that

the change in the reports is due to the higher dosages. The

solution is simple. If one suspects that their child's GI issue is

from the new dosage of EFAs -just lower the dosage back to where you

were, or just a bit at least - and increase a bit slower this time.

I too would have raised Tanner faster too.

I was held back with " Are you sure that's not too high? " questions.

Drats!

But still (after a few years s.l.o.w.l.y.!) I just naturally increased

Tanner as time went on till where we are now at 4 of the ProEFA and 2

of the ProEPA a day. May go higher.

As I've always said all that matters with fish oil is formula,

dosage, and quality of the oil.

From what I know there has been no recent change in the formula

(bottle design daily -but not formula inside of bottle) And we know

the quality is just as pure.

Also -if one has a child on 2 ProEFA and 1 ProEPA and they want to

raise up the EFA a bit more (for an apraxic child) I personally

would not recommend adding one extra ProEPA yet -I'd add the one

extra ProEFA. For apraxia you want around a 2 to 1 ratio of ProEFA

to ProEPA. For an ADHD child you can go 1 to 1. If the child has

both -not sure. Try one at a time and see which works the best.

Again with fish oils you'll know pretty quick if it's right. As

always -run all by your child's (hopefully knowledgeable) doctor.

=====

[Guest guest]

We are backing down on the dosage with my son. I am pretty sure

that he just isn't able to tolerate the increased dose at this

time.

The reason I chose to keep the proepa and not the additional proefa

was based on the recent experience with , where she felt her

son regressed with the decrease in proepa even when it was

compensated for with increased amounts of proefa. There are also

some studies that have suggested that the higher ratio of epa is

helpful in other developmental disabilities (pdd and autism, neither

of which my son has) so I though it might be apliccable to apraxia

also.

In any case, my little guy seems to do better at the lower dosages

for now, so that is what we are going to do. BTW, I could have

tolerated a little loose stool, in him it was full out vomiting and

a lot of burping.

-Valery

>

> Hi Kathy!

>

> We know that there are quite a few more today exploring higher

> dosages in a way shorter period of time. In our group years ago

> some kept their child on one capsule for years! Typically however

> most would only be up to 3 capsules after a year -not a week or a

> month.

>

> Even at the low dosages there were a few people that reported mild

> loose stools. Therefore to me it's understandable and obvious

that

> the change in the reports is due to the higher dosages. The

> solution is simple. If one suspects that their child's GI issue

is

> from the new dosage of EFAs -just lower the dosage back to where

you

> were, or just a bit at least - and increase a bit slower this

time.

>

> I too would have raised Tanner faster too.

> I was held back with " Are you sure that's not too high? " questions.

> Drats!

>

> But still (after a few years s.l.o.w.l.y.!) I just naturally

increased

> Tanner as time went on till where we are now at 4 of the ProEFA

and 2

> of the ProEPA a day. May go higher.

>

> As I've always said all that matters with fish oil is formula,

> dosage, and quality of the oil.

>

> From what I know there has been no recent change in the formula

> (bottle design daily -but not formula inside of bottle) And we

know

> the quality is just as pure.

>

> Also -if one has a child on 2 ProEFA and 1 ProEPA and they want to

> raise up the EFA a bit more (for an apraxic child) I personally

> would not recommend adding one extra ProEPA yet -I'd add the one

> extra ProEFA. For apraxia you want around a 2 to 1 ratio of

ProEFA

> to ProEPA. For an ADHD child you can go 1 to 1. If the child has

> both -not sure. Try one at a time and see which works the best.

> Again with fish oils you'll know pretty quick if it's right. As

> always -run all by your child's (hopefully knowledgeable) doctor.

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Not that I know of, but it would be interesting to find out. I

found a brand that adds lipase to their fish oil to help with

digestion. But I couldn't find any information, if the added lipase

was really helpful for people who GI distress with other fish oils.

But I thought I might give it a try since they have a similiar

epa/dha make up to the proepa, and I could combine it with the

proefa from nordic naturals.

-Valery

>

> Is it my imagination or has there been a change in the formulation

of

> the latest batches of ProEFA? And if so, is that why we are

getting

> more reports of GI problems?

>

> Peace,

> Kathy E.

[Guest guest]

Hi !

I believe 's child is on a 2 ProEFA 1 ProEPA dosage 3x a day.

It was my impression that had accidentally ran out of ProEPA

completely and had tried to compensate the missing one ProEPA

capsule difference by substituting it with an extra ProEFA.

?

=====

[Guest guest]

That's exactly what happened. We went without ProEPA for about 72 hours with

unnerving effects by the end of the 2nd to 3rd day. It seems we can not wean

him at this point lest we return to a lesser state of function. I am

actually thinking of bumping the EPA even higher, maybe 1 proEFA to 2

proEPA, but not sure. I'm trying to find a good metabolic specialist in our

area because I need some expertice and an explanation for this. Now have a

name of someone at Stanford and at UCSF. We saw our developmental

pediatrician for the 6 month follow-up yesterday and he was pretty much

blown away by ph's changes - ie a different kid as he put it. When he

last saw ph he was in the 3 word approximation phase. He immediately

called my pediatrician to discuss what he saw. He too feels there is a

metabolic abnormality contributing to this (really the only explanation) and

the results we have seen. But ph is still very hypotonic in his upper

extremities - more obvious now that he is older. At this point, he does want

us to get an MRI, and I agree. But know from this site the MRI is typically

normal (so not stressing too much), and also know from this site that there

are many kids out there like my son, and the long-term prognosis is good -

they live long lives etc. Otherwise I think " metabolic disorder " and start

to have nightmares.

But back to the Pro-EPA. Since we were still not back to where we were with

clarity before we ran out of EPA, for the last 2 days (before the

developmental eval) I gave 2 pro-EFA and 2 pro-EPA in the AM, and the

afternoon and PM dose was the same as before. Surge again in clarity - just

in time for his developmental ped to see him at his best. He is also have an

energy burst again - not totally hyper, but climbing/jumping on furniture

(something he just couldn't master a few weeks ago) and full of life. It is

really great. But now I have to chase him! But how high can we go and what

are the long term implications? No one knows. This is why I want some

bloodwork to make sure we don't have accumulation of unwanted fatty acids if

there is something abnormal about the way they are processed. But again,

most people wouldn't think about the tablespoons of oil food soaks up upon

frying etc. So all this worry may be for nothing. In the meantime - I've got

a happy, active and talking 2 year old! Because this really is higher dose

than most recommend, anyone reading this must take that into consideration.

At the same time, I feel like I have to let you know what we are seeing -

because there are others out there who are just like my son. But for those

wondering whether to go from 1/4 a teaspoon to 1/2 tsp or trying 1/2 tsp

twice a day - there is no worry with those doses. They are still very low.

What we are doing, on the other hand is at the other end of the spectrum.

But it is also quite possible that we have not yet gone high

nough. -

[ ] Re: GI Upset with Fish Oil

Hi !

I believe 's child is on a 2 ProEFA 1 ProEPA dosage 3x a day.

It was my impression that had accidentally ran out of ProEPA

completely and had tried to compensate the missing one ProEPA

capsule difference by substituting it with an extra ProEFA.

?

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think what you said is correct about how is dosing. It is

just that when she ran out it seemed like the EPA may have been the

thing making the biggest difference, because he still had a

regression while on just the EFA. But you are right, that her

normal dosing regimen is 2 EFA and 1 EPA 3x day. And you are also

right that the current wisdom is that the 2:1 dosage for EFA:EPA is

what is being supported. I was trying something a little different,

but it didn't work out.

-Valery

>

> Hi !

>

> I believe 's child is on a 2 ProEFA 1 ProEPA dosage 3x a

day.

>

> It was my impression that had accidentally ran out of

ProEPA

> completely and had tried to compensate the missing one ProEPA

> capsule difference by substituting it with an extra ProEFA.

>

> ?

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

If you check the archives from a few years ago -I too was so excited

about the surges on the higher EPA formula with Tanner that I

started to raise the EPA more. For Tanner at least when I raised

the amount of ProEPA so that I was giving the same amount of

capsules as the ProEFA -or a one to one ratio -Tanner started to

regress in speech. Not scary regress like when you take them off

the oils -but stuttering. We went back to a 2 to 1 ratio and ever

since I've been careful to always raise the ProEFA first -then the

ProEPA so that the dosage stays 2 to 1 -or close to that.

On the other hand...For my ADHD son Dakota the one to one ratio is

what he needs.

Most here have their kids on the two to one ratio- I guess because

of what worked for Tanner. To be honest I'm not sure if anyone

tried the higher and saw the regression like I did. In the past

Tanner's been pretty typical of this group in what works for him. I

would be very interested in knowing what you see with your child

because the surges and regressions you have seen fit within the

dramatic range like we've seen with Tanner. I too wonder what type

of testing we can do to know for sure what the exact " right " dosage

would be to help even more.

You know who would be great to question -Dr. ez. She deals

with conditions that are life threatning and has done clinical

research in this area. Not the same conditions of course -but in

some sense the same treatment.

http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/

http://www.martinezfoundation.com/

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi and all,

I wondered beyond the posting of G.I. upset if there are others like

my son Nick (who will turn 5 on April 24th!) who every time I up the

dose from 1 Pro-EFA cap per day he loses it behaviorally? Honestly

I've wanted to up him because of what I have read here and wanted to

add the EPA but have had negative behaviors each time and have

simply backed it down to 1 EFA again, not adding the EPA. The

behavior problems occur even if I try to do 1.5 EFA, upping him

slowly so to speak.

Is there any research going on now regarding fish oils and our kids?

Nick is doing wonderfully by the way, at the kindergarten screening

that I couldn't attend because I was down with pneumonia, the SLP

said he was age appropriate for all language areas! I know that

although that snap shot said he is age appropriate, he really is

not. It does indicate how very far he has come in the last two

years though! He does still struggle so hard with word retrieval

issues that sometimes it just makes my heart ache. He also simply

has trouble with articulation the longer the sentence gets and don't

point to a color and say, " What's that color? " because he'll

freeze. Ask him to point to the color and he's fine, that kind of

thing. Anyway, I'm still looking for those things that will help

him and that includes supplements. If anyone has words of wisdom on

the behavioral end of the EFA and EPA please share.

Thanks!

McCann

>

> Hi ,

>

> If you check the archives from a few years ago -I too was so

excited

> about the surges on the higher EPA formula with Tanner that I

> started to raise the EPA more. For Tanner at least when I raised

> the amount of ProEPA so that I was giving the same amount of

> capsules as the ProEFA -or a one to one ratio -Tanner started to

> regress in speech. Not scary regress like when you take them off

> the oils -but stuttering. We went back to a 2 to 1 ratio and ever

> since I've been careful to always raise the ProEFA first -then the

> ProEPA so that the dosage stays 2 to 1 -or close to that.

>

> On the other hand...For my ADHD son Dakota the one to one ratio is

> what he needs.

>

> Most here have their kids on the two to one ratio- I guess because

> of what worked for Tanner. To be honest I'm not sure if anyone

> tried the higher and saw the regression like I did. In the past

> Tanner's been pretty typical of this group in what works for him.

I

> would be very interested in knowing what you see with your child

> because the surges and regressions you have seen fit within the

> dramatic range like we've seen with Tanner. I too wonder what

type

> of testing we can do to know for sure what the exact " right "

dosage

> would be to help even more.

>

> You know who would be great to question -Dr. ez. She deals

> with conditions that are life threatning and has done clinical

> research in this area. Not the same conditions of course -but in

> some sense the same treatment.

> http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/

>

> http://www.martinezfoundation.com/

>

>

> =====

>