Re: [VPD]For Dee TESTOSTERONE LOSS & V PAIN (MEDSCAPE)

[Guest guest]

so what did you use the 2% testosterone cream? and just mixed it in with estrace or was a a special mix?

Lee Ann

I just ran across it again and thought I'd send it on.... That's why a local topical natural bio-identical testosterone cream when added can be so beneficial for V. pain and that's not only for Lichen sclerosis but any vulvar pain. As long as all infectious causes are ruled out, as well as any radiating pain that may be caused by pelvic floor dysfunctions. Those are separate issues.

So this would be used to help restore health and nourishment to the vulvar tissue itself if that is your main problem, (the tissue itself w. splitting, tearing, fissures, etc.) along with the estradiol used topically (as in Estrace cream). And in fact... using the tiny dab of T topically also increases the E. receptors to make that work more efficiently as well.

They truly do work together synergistically (estradiol and testosterone) and used just topically/locally is rarely systemic (unless it's overused) it was certainly 'my' answer after 10 horrible nightmare years of pain when the Estrace alone didn't do it completely until I added the T cream and returned to full health within a few months later.

Enjoy.

Dee

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Androgen Insufficiency May Lead to Vulvar Vestibulitis and Genital Pain

Yael Waknine

Oct 26, 2004

Oct. 26, 2004 — Androgen insufficiency may result in diminished structure and function of the vestibular glands, including decreased androgen receptor expression, leading to vestibular adenitis and dyspareunia, according to the results of a preliminary study presented last week at the 11th World Congress of the International Society for Sexual and Impotence Research in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

"Vestibulitis is a very common cause of genital pain among women, and there's a subgroup of women [in whom] it's probably related to the use of hormonal birth control pills or hormonal manipulation, " Munarriz, MD, assistant professor of urology at Boston University School of Medicine in Massachusetts, told Medscape. "That small group of women responds to androgen replacement therapy."

Of 3,000 women with female sexual dysfunction (FSD) evaluated by Dr. Munarriz and colleagues, 13% had dyspareunia, 66% had physical findings of vulvar vestibulitis syndrome (VVS), and 83% had concomitant androgen deficiency.

To evaluate the possibility of a link between androgen deficiency and vestibulitis, the investigators compared vestibular gland tissue excised from patients with VVS (n = 22; mean age, 36 years; 32 sections) with vestibular tissues excised from female cadavers having had no history of vestibulitis (control subjects, n = 5; 9 sections). Patients with VVS had significant dyspareunia as evaluated using the pain domain of the Female Sexual Function Index (mean score, 0.9 ± 0.06; maximal score = 5).

Hematoxylin- eosin staining showed significant inflammation (P = .00009) and squamous metaplasia in the vestibular specimens of patients with VVS compared with control subjects.

Immunohistochemical staining with antibody anti-estrogen, progesterone, and anti-androgen showed significant decreases in androgen (P = .014) and progesterone (P = .00042) receptor expression in vestibular tissue of patients with VVS compared with controls.

"What we found is that the specimens from women who had vestibulitis had significant inflammation, squamous metaplasia, and were completely depleted of androgen receptors — while the controls had no inflammation, and normal staining for androgens," noted Dr. Munarriz. "This makes us believe that there is a link between genital pain due to vestibulitis and androgens.

"We believe that there's a subgroup of women, particularly young women, who as a consequence of being on the birth control pill have very low androgen or testosterone levels," said Dr. Munarriz, noting that these women also tend to have a higher incidence of genital pain. "This may be one of the pathophysiologic mechanisms [explaining] why women on the pill get pain — because they lose their ability to express androgen receptors in the genital tissue," he said.

"On the basis of this premise, it may be that in this subgroup of women genital pain can be effectively treated with hormones," concluded Dr. Munarriz, adding that future studies may evaluate the benefits of testosterone therapy in this population.

The investigators report no pertinent financial conflicts of interest.

ISSIR 11th World Congress: Abstract O74. Presented Oct. 20, 2004.

Reviewed by D. Vogin, MD

[Guest guest]



<so what did you use the 2% testosterone cream?

and just mixed it in with estrace or was a a special mix? Lee Ann>

HI Lee Ann.

I just let Pete at Bellevue pharmacy compound the T. with whatever he suggested.. He knew it was to be used on the Vulva (most compounding pharmacists know that) and his base is different that what most use. His is the ''Liquigel'' base where others use a propionate form in a type of ointment like vaseline. His is sort of like a thin cream or lotion they make up and can put in a tube. (you do have to ask to have it put into a tube tho) .... it's very gentle and I never had a problem with it even when I was still tender. Some others here on the groups use the EMU as a base for the T or the E so it depends.

No I don't get my T. mixed together with the Estrace. (Also Estrace is a name brand prescription available at all USA Drugstores and that's what I use but it's base can be irritating. I'm well now so I don't have a problem with it. But... if one did have the estrogen compounded, it would be 'estradiol with testosterone' In case you'd want to get the same formula that Estrace is. In other words you wouldn't say ' I want Estrace compounded, you'd say you wanted 'estradiol' compounded. (I know, it's confusing, *grin*)

Mainly because during the healing I used the E almost every night.. and added the T. cream about every 3rd night right on top of one another. I like being able to use them separately. Some do have the E & T compounded together... but in my opinion, I think that can be too much T and it can go systemic. Initially for a few weeks might be ok.. to give it all a jump start but I'd taper back off the T. 'if it were me'... So I play with my T.. and times when I want a more exciting weekend shall we say, *wink* I'll use more T. But I'm talking therapy here first. *grin*...

Dee~

PS Did you see how high the number was of women in that paper about Androgen insufficiency? 83% !! My best guestimate is no doubt from the Birth control pills 'and' they also block E. receptors.

''Of 3,000 women with female sexual dysfunction (FSD) evaluated by Dr. Munarriz and colleagues, 13% had dyspareunia, 66% had physical findings of vulvar vestibulitis syndrome (VVS), and 83% had concomitant androgen deficiency.''

My best guestimate is no doubt from the high usage of Birth Control pills 'and' they also block E. receptors. I purposely left it below in case someone didn't read that.

Dee~

===================Dee Troll <dtroll (AT) cboss (DOT) com> wrote:

I just ran across it again and thought I'd send it on.... That's why a local topical natural bio-identical testosterone cream when added can be so beneficial for V. pain and that's not only for Lichen sclerosis but any vulvar pain. As long as all infectious causes are ruled out, as well as any radiating pain that may be caused by pelvic floor dysfunctions. Those are separate issues.

So this would be used to help restore health and nourishment to the vulvar tissue itself if that is your main problem, (the tissue itself w. splitting, tearing, fissures, etc.) along with the estradiol used topically (as in Estrace cream). And in fact... using the tiny dab of T topically also increases the E. receptors to make that work more efficiently as well.

They truly do work together synergistically (estradiol and testosterone) and used just topically/locally is rarely systemic (unless it's overused) it was certainly 'my' answer after 10 horrible nightmare years of pain when the Estrace alone didn't do it completely until I added the T cream and returned to full health within a few months later.

Enjoy.

Dee

============ ========= ========= ========= ========

Androgen Insufficiency May Lead to Vulvar Vestibulitis and Genital Pain

Yael Waknine

Oct. 26, 2004 — Androgen insufficiency may result in diminished structure and function of the vestibular glands, including decreased androgen receptor expression, leading to vestibular adenitis and dyspareunia, according to the results of a preliminary study presented last week at the 11th World Congress of the International Society for Sexual and Impotence Research in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

"Vestibulitis is a very common cause of genital pain among women, and there's a subgroup of women [in whom] it's probably related to the use of hormonal birth control pills or hormonal manipulation, " Munarriz, MD, assistant professor of urology at Boston University School of Medicine in Massachusetts, told Medscape. "That small group of women responds to androgen replacement therapy."

Of 3,000 women with female sexual dysfunction (FSD) evaluated by Dr. Munarriz and colleagues, 13% had dyspareunia, 66% had physical findings of vulvar vestibulitis syndrome (VVS), and 83% had concomitant androgen deficiency.

To evaluate the possibility of a link between androgen deficiency and vestibulitis, the investigators compared vestibular gland tissue excised from patients with VVS (n = 22; mean age, 36 years; 32 sections) with vestibular tissues excised from female cadavers having had no history of vestibulitis (control subjects, n = 5; 9 sections).

Patients with VVS had significant dyspareunia as evaluated using the pain domain of the Female Sexual Function Index (mean score, 0.9 ± 0.06; maximal score = 5). Hematoxylin- eosin staining showed significant inflammation (P = .00009) and squamous metaplasia in the vestibular specimens of patients with VVS compared with control subjects.

Immunohistochemical staining with antibody anti-estrogen, progesterone, and anti-androgen showed significant decreases in androgen (P = .014) and progesterone (P = .00042) receptor expression in vestibular tissue of patients with VVS compared with controls.

"What we found is that the specimens from women who had vestibulitis had significant inflammation, squamous metaplasia, and were completely depleted of androgen receptors — while the controls had no inflammation, and normal staining for androgens," noted Dr. Munarriz. "This makes us believe that there is a link between genital pain due to vestibulitis and androgens.

"We believe that there's a subgroup of women, particularly young women, who as a consequence of being on the birth control pill have very low androgen or testosterone levels," said Dr. Munarriz, noting that these women also tend to have a higher incidence of genital pain. "This may be one of the pathophysiologic mechanisms [explaining] why women on the pill get pain — because they lose their ability to express androgen receptors in the genital tissue," he said.

"On the basis of this premise, it may be that in this subgroup of women genital pain can be effectively treated with hormones," concluded Dr. Munarriz, adding that future studies may evaluate the benefits of testosterone therapy in this population.

The investigators report no pertinent financial conflicts of interest.

ISSIR 11th World Congress: Abstract O74. Presented Oct. 20, 2004.

Reviewed by D. Vogin, MD