Re: Caroline's Emergency Care in the Streets

[Guest guest]

Oh my. You make me feel so old.

Caroline's book was the original paramedic text, used by just about

everybody when EMS was first invented. I was there for the event.

Caroline went to Israel and worked and failed to keep her text updated.

Then came along with his book and basically knocked Caroline out of the

water.

Gene G.

>

> A fellow FF and I are looking into going to medic school and the

> school we're probably going to go to uses Caroline's Emergency

> Care in the Streets, Sixth Edition for their text. I've never heard of

> the book and was just wanting the usual opinions from all sides that

> this group offers.

>

> The only book I've seen people around here use is one of Bledsoe's so

> I'm a little timid about one I've never heard of before.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Garrett

>

>

>

**************************************

See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

Expanding on what Wes said, no one textbook will teach you everything you

need to know. They all cover the basic material. Some topics are handled

better in one book or another, one book or another has better graphics and study

aids, et cetera, but the truth is that if you want to become a professionally

competent paramedic you will daily use Google to find articles on the subject

you're studying, and if you work for a decent service, it will have, at a

minimum, Tintinalli's Emergency Medicine, on's Internal Medicine, The

" alphabet " texts, something on behavioral emergencies, possibly Goldfrank's

Toxicologic Emergencies, the SLAM Airway Manual, Bledsoe's Drug text, the PDR,

the

Merck Manual, 's 12 Lead ECG, Huszar's ECG book, Walraven's ECG book and

maybe some others, and copies of ALL the available EMT and Paramedic texts.

You

will regularly consult them on various topics.

OK, I know. There are probably few services that have such a library, but

they should. And few students have the drive to do what I suggest. I'm a

dreamer.

Every Paramedic instructor should be, at a minimum, familiar with all those

books and use them liberally as background for lessons.

Good luck with medic school. It will, or should, change your life.

Gene G.

>

>

> Any of the medic texts, whether Caroline's, Bledsoe, or , should

> cover the National Standard Curriculum. A lot of it depends on teaching

style

> and what works for you individually. The best secret I can pass along about

> medic school is that, if one resource or book doesn't work for you, find

> another.

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> (one skills retest away from NREMT-P)

>

> Caroline's Emergency Care in the Streets

>

> A fellow FF and I are looking into going to medic school and the

> school we're probably going to go to uses Caroline's Emergency

> Care in the Streets, Sixth Edition for their text. I've never heard of

> the book and was just wanting the usual opinions from all sides that

> this group offers.

>

> The only book I've seen people around here use is one of Bledsoe's so

> I'm a little timid about one I've never heard of before.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Garrett

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________

> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -

> http://mail.http://

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/22/2007 3:32:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

emsfire@... writes:

I've never heard of the book and was just wanting the usual opinions from

all sides that this group offers.

Damn I feel OLD

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

As a person who is fortunate enough to get a lot of free stuff (I have one

hell of a library all be they all in boxes yet once again from yet another

move) for some of the things I do for a the publishers I must agree with Wes.

I have looked up something in one text and bee totally confused by how that

something was presented then went to another text and read their version of it

and between the two it clicked in my thick skull and I " got it " .

The one great resource that Y'all have at your fingertips is the Internet

and then the next one and this takes but a drive up the road in most cases is

the Public Library.

Oh and even if you're in the boon docks of rural Texas you can tap some

library somewhere and make use of this little thing called Inter-Library Loan.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

Any of the medic texts, whether Caroline's, Bledsoe, or , should cover

the National Standard Curriculum. A lot of it depends on teaching style and

what works for you individually. The best secret I can pass along about medic

school is that, if one resource or book doesn't work for you, find another.

-Wes Ogilvie

(one skills retest away from NREMT-P)

Caroline's Emergency Care in the Streets

A fellow FF and I are looking into going to medic school and the

school we're probably going to go to uses Caroline's Emergency

Care in the Streets, Sixth Edition for their text. I've never heard of

the book and was just wanting the usual opinions from all sides that

this group offers.

The only book I've seen people around here use is one of Bledsoe's so

I'm a little timid about one I've never heard of before.

Thanks!

Garrett

________________________________________________________________________

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -

http://mail.aol.com

[Guest guest]

As Gene says, it was one of the older texts. I used it when

I was in school in the early 1980s. I liked it, though I think

as I've matured and know more about this business I tend to use

Dr. Bledsoe's books more as reference, along with a lot of other

books.

=Steve=

Steve , LP

AlertCPR Emergency Training

1400 Moccassin Trl, Suite 12

ville, TX 75077

>--- Original Message ---

>

>To: texasems-l

>Date: 10/22/07 2:32:02 PM

>

A fellow FF and I are looking into going to medic school and

the

>school we're probably going to go to uses Caroline's Emergency

>Care in the Streets, Sixth Edition for their text. I've never

heard of

>the book and was just wanting the usual opinions from all sides

that

>this group offers.

>

>The only book I've seen people around here use is one of Bledsoe's

so

>I'm a little timid about one I've never heard of before.

>

>Thanks!

>

>Garrett

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Garrett,

Gene is not the only one you make feel old...he is right about Caroline's

text. My paramedic school copy was a looseleafed prepublished edition, with the

original hand drawn illustrations, made available through a bastard step child,

brother in law, ain't nobody lookin', deal by the venerable Henry J. Barber and

someone at (then) TDH, that needs to remain nameless to protect the never

innocent and the deceased. I did pick up a copy of the new Caroline recently,

ostensibly for sentimental reasons, as I had all of the other additions. It has

come in handy though. As much as I like 's texts, I had a fledgling medic

candidate that seemed to need a push from a different perspective. Over the

years we have considered several of the male doc's the father of this and that,

but Caroline was definitely the mother of it all, so to speak. If you can

afford the extra $$$ use both texts. While the knowledge objectives are covered

in both, the perspective is different in many areas with regard to how the

objective is managed.

Just my .02.

Vernon Gresham

Caroline's Emergency Care in the Streets

A fellow FF and I are looking into going to medic school and the

school we're probably going to go to uses Caroline's Emergency

Care in the Streets, Sixth Edition for their text. I've never heard of

the book and was just wanting the usual opinions from all sides that

this group offers.

The only book I've seen people around here use is one of Bledsoe's so

I'm a little timid about one I've never heard of before.

Thanks!

Garrett

[Guest guest]

The more 'seasoned' medics on the list cut their teeth as medics on the early

(Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown and other

excellent authors have picked up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a few

years back while serving as the director of the Magen Adom - the

nation-wide EMS / Red Cross equivalent of Israel).

I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some of her

analogies / stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense one way,

approach it by reading another source.

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I bought this new edition when it first came out at the end of my

intermediate course. I have found it to give good clear simple

answers and explanations. I then turn to my Brady and Mosby to add

more. Yes I have all 3 for my Paramedic course, along with Dale

Dubins Rapid Interpretation Of EKGS, Gail Ravens EKG book, and

several other EKG and 12 lead EKG books. Also have most of the

alphabet books. And don't forget internet is your friend, just make

sure it is a reputable site.

Renny Spencer

Paramedic Student

>

> The more 'seasoned' medics on the list cut their teeth as medics on

the early (Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS

has grown and other excellent authors have picked up Dr. Caroline's

fallen torch (she died a few years back while serving as the director

of the Magen Adom - the nation-wide EMS / Red Cross equivalent

of Israel).

>

> I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some

of her analogies / stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

>

> I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense

one way, approach it by reading another source.

>

>

>

> " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for

them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. "

Proverbs 22:3

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but Caroline's 6th edition is seriously

lacking. I would not recommend it.

Gene G.

>

> The more 'seasoned' medics on the list cut their teeth as medics on the

> early (Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown

and

> other excellent authors have picked up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a

> few years back while serving as the director of the Magen Adom - the

> nation-wide EMS / Red Cross equivalent of Israel).

>

> I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some of her

> analogies / stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

>

> I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense one way,

> approach it by reading another source.

>

> " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

> simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " A prudent man fo

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

[Guest guest]

Renny,

I commend you. You're learning that no one source can tell you everything

you need to know.

And you're also thinking critically about information that you find.

I predict that you're going to be a great medic.

GG

>

> I bought this new edition when it first came out at the end of my

> intermediate course. I have found it to give good clear simple

> answers and explanations. I then turn to my Brady and Mosby to add

> more. Yes I have all 3 for my Paramedic course, along with Dale

> Dubins Rapid Interpretation Of EKGS, Gail Ravens EKG book, and

> several other EKG and 12 lead EKG books. Also have most of the

> alphabet books. And don't forget internet is your friend, just make

> sure it is a reputable site.

>

> Renny Spencer

> Paramedic Student

>

>

> >

> > The more 'seasoned' medics on the list cut their teeth as medics on

> the early (Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS

> has grown and other excellent authors have picked up Dr. Caroline's

> fallen torch (she died a few years back while serving as the director

> of the Magen Adom - the nation-wide EMS / Red Cross equivalent

> of Israel).

> >

> > I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some

> of her analogies / stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

> >

> > I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense

> one way, approach it by reading another source.

> >

> >

> >

> > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for

> them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. the

> Proverbs 22:3

> >

> >

> > ____________ _______ _______ _______ _______

> >

[Guest guest]

Excellent advice.

If you have Internet access, join eMedicine Online. It's free, and you'll

find articles on every single condition that you could ever think of.

If yer a Paramedic student, your textbook is just the basic stuff that gives

you the platform to find out so much more. Please don't just read the book.

Go to Google and find out what everybody else says about the condition

you're studying. It will expand your horizons mightily.

Gene G.

>

> As a person who is fortunate enough to get a lot of free stuff (I have one

> hell of a library all be they all in boxes yet once again from yet another

> move) for some of the things I do for a the publishers I must agree with

> Wes.

>

> I have looked up something in one text and bee totally confused by how that

> something was presented then went to another text and read their version of

> it

> and between the two it clicked in my thick skull and I " got it " .

>

> The one great resource that Y'all have at your fingertips is the Internet

> and then the next one and this takes but a drive up the road in most cases

> is

> the Public Library.

>

> Oh and even if you're in the boon docks of rural Texas you can tap some

> library somewhere and make use of this little thing called Inter-Library

> Loan.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt

>

>

[Guest guest]

I received the sixth edition today and I am jazzed about book,it looks great.

Can't wait to teach out of it. It comes with al load of CD's to help teach. A

complete ppt for presentations.

Larry wrote: The more 'seasoned' medics

on the list cut their teeth as medics on the early (Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd)

editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown and other excellent authors have

picked up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a few years back while serving

as the director of the Magen Adom - the nation-wide EMS / Red Cross

equivalent of Israel).

I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some of her analogies

/ stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense one way,

approach it by reading another source.

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Gene,

Thank you. I hope your right, and I'm sure my future patients hope

your right also:).

Renny Spencer

Paramedic student

>

> Renny,

>

> I commend you. You're learning that no one source can tell you

everything

> you need to know.

>

> And you're also thinking critically about information that you find.

>

> I predict that you're going to be a great medic.

>

> GG

[Guest guest]

What is it lacking? As a seasoned medic you realize that not all the info will

be in there. That is up to use to fill in the gaps.

wegandy1938@... wrote: I'm sorry to have to say this, but

Caroline's 6th edition is seriously

lacking. I would not recommend it.

Gene G.

>

> The more 'seasoned' medics on the list cut their teeth as medics on the

> early (Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown

and

> other excellent authors have picked up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a

> few years back while serving as the director of the Magen Adom - the

> nation-wide EMS / Red Cross equivalent of Israel).

>

> I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some of her

> analogies / stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

>

> I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense one way,

> approach it by reading another source.

>

> " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

> simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " A prudent man fo

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

[Guest guest]

The thing I have liked about it is that the students have both Brady and

Caroline. They prefer to read the Caroline over the Brady. Isn't that what it's

about?

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of Awsome Medic

Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:44 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Caroline's Emergency Care in the Streets

I received the sixth edition today and I am jazzed about book,it looks great.

Can't wait to teach out of it. It comes with al load of CD's to help teach. A

complete ppt for presentations.

Larry <larn572001@... <mailto:larn572001%40yahoo.com> > wrote: The

more 'seasoned' medics on the list cut their teeth as medics on the early (Pre

1st, 1st and 2nd) editions of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown and other

excellent authors have picked up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a few

years back while serving as the director of the Magen Adom - the

nation-wide EMS / Red Cross equivalent of Israel).

I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some of her analogies

/ stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense one way,

approach it by reading another source.

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I suggest you look at it very closely before you get " jazzed up " about it.

It has many, many deficiences. It may look great but the content isn't there

in many areas such as anatomy/physiology, cardiology, pharmacology, and so

on. Also, the tone is less than professional. Paramedics don't need funny

little cartoons to learn from. What they need is good, solid, science based

material. The 6th edition largely lacks that. I think it's demeaning to

paramedics. I would not recommend it under any circumstances.

Gene G.

>

> I received the sixth edition today and I am jazzed about book,it looks

> great. Can't wait to teach out of it. It comes with al load of CD's to help

teach.

> A complete ppt for presentations.

>

> Larry wrote: The more 'seasoned' medics on the

> list cut their teeth as medics on the early (Pre 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions

> of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown and other excellent authors have picked

> up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a few years back while serving as

> the director of the Magen Adom - the nation-wide EMS / Red Cross

> equivalent of Israel).

>

> I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious to see if some of her

> analogies / stories are intact,or if they have been replaced.

>

> I concur with Wes and the others. If something isn't making sense one way,

> approach it by reading another source.

>

> " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

> simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " A prudent man

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

[Guest guest]

The other problem I have with ALL of the EMS Texts that I have had the

pleasure of reviewing (a few from each of the major Publishers over the past

two

years at all levels, even a few fire titles) is that overall I find the

PowerPoint's that they supply to be lacking both in content and in context, the

time they spend in building those seems to be the least of all in the package

development time equation with the only thing I find to be more poorly done in

those Instructor packages is the exam question banks which basically violate

every law of solid test item development that I've ever been taught in my

career.

Overall I am very unimpressed with everyone's PowerPoint's and their exams.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

Gene, I had to laugh when I read this. Yeah, I agree

with you. But I also have fond memories of trying to

cram being a mother with being a paramedic student,

and reading a lovely bedtime story about Sally the

Sinus Node and her friends to my son when he was a

baby.

I let some fellow nursing students read that

ridiculous lesson when they weren't understanding the

explanation in the nursing texts. They all agreed

that it was silly, but they got it.

And when the Kiddo was taking A & P in high school, he

asked if he could use that book to help him understand

the pathways. I can almost guarantee he's the only

singer/dancer/stage actor/waiter that can read a basic

EKG.

Anyway, I suppose it is demeaning to medics. I

probably even thought so at the time. But that

particular chapter holds a very dear place in my

heart...arrhythmias and all.

Connie

--- wegandy1938@... wrote:

> I suggest you look at it very closely before you get

> " jazzed up " about it.

> It has many, many deficiences. It may look great

> but the content isn't there

> in many areas such as anatomy/physiology,

> cardiology, pharmacology, and so

> on. Also, the tone is less than professional.

> Paramedics don't need funny

> little cartoons to learn from. What they need is

> good, solid, science based

> material. The 6th edition largely lacks that. I

> think it's demeaning to

> paramedics. I would not recommend it under any

> circumstances.

>

> Gene G.

> In a message dated 10/23/07 8:09:26 AM,

> radmedic2001@... writes:

>

>

> >

> > I received the sixth edition today and I am jazzed

> about book,it looks

> > great. Can't wait to teach out of it. It comes

> with al load of CD's to help teach.

> > A complete ppt for presentations.

> >

> > Larry wrote: The

> more 'seasoned' medics on the

> > list cut their teeth as medics on the early (Pre

> 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions

> > of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown and other

> excellent authors have picked

> > up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a few

> years back while serving as

> > the director of the Magen Adom - the

> nation-wide EMS / Red Cross

> > equivalent of Israel).

> >

> > I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious

> to see if some of her

> > analogies / stories are intact,or if they have

> been replaced.

> >

> > I concur with Wes and the others. If something

> isn't making sense one way,

> > approach it by reading another source.

> >

> > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and

> prepares for them; the

> > simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the

> consequences. " A prudent man

> >

> > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

> >

[Guest guest]

connie mundell wrote: " ... I also have fond memories of

trying to cram being a mother with being a paramedic student,and reading a

lovely bedtime story about Sally the Sinus Node and her friends to my son when

he was a baby... "

In the early editions, blockers, antagonists and agonists were illustrated by

cartoon figures with pointy or square heads and smiley / frowning faces. You

still see the pointy heads, just no faces. It was silly, but I still remember

Sally and the pointy-headed smiley faces some (mumble) years later.

Does that make for an effect learning tool? Sure, there are better, more

modern ways. My Health Science Technology Med. Term and A & P students learned the

cardiac conduction system with a rap song. Wish I had kept a copy.

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ditto. I do my own PowerPoints. And I include a bunch of stuff that's in

the curriculum but not covered well in the books.

The publishers seem to have these notions that there must be a strict limit

on the number of pages that they'll publish in a paramedic text.

Bledsoe has complained about that over and over.

The fact is that if you go to nurseing school, you will use many textbooks,

any one of which is as big as either Bledsoe's or ' one-volume book.

No wonder we are looked down upon by the rest of the medical profession.

Hasn't the time come for us to use materials that are not written to

W. Bush's level?

GG

>

> The other problem I have with ALL of the EMS Texts that I have had the

> pleasure of reviewing (a few from each of the major Publishers over the past

> two

> years at all levels, even a few fire titles) is that overall I find the

> PowerPoint's that they supply to be lacking both in content and in context,

> the

> time they spend in building those seems to be the least of all in the

> package

> development time equation with the only thing I find to be more poorly done

> in

> those Instructor packages is the exam question banks which basically violate

> every law of solid test item development that I've ever been taught in my

> career.

>

> Overall I am very unimpressed with everyone's PowerPoint's and their exams.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know, maybe there is a place for Cardiology for Dummies, but it should be

in books like that, not the primary texts. I have bought " Dummies " books

before and they have helped, for instance " HTML for Dummies. " But after I

finally " get the basic concept " then I need the hard information.

In another post I contrast the materials and books used in a nursing program

with what we have been using in paramedicine. It's not encouraging.

Gene G.

>

> Gene, I had to laugh when I read this. Yeah, I agree

> with you. But I also have fond memories of trying to

> cram being a mother with being a paramedic student,

> and reading a lovely bedtime story about Sally the

> Sinus Node and her friends to my son when he was a

> baby.

>

> I let some fellow nursing students read that

> ridiculous lesson when they weren't understanding the

> explanation in the nursing texts. They all agreed

> that it was silly, but they got it.

>

> And when the Kiddo was taking A & P in high school, he

> asked if he could use that book to help him understand

> the pathways. I can almost guarantee he's the only

> singer/dancer/ singer/dancer/<wbr>stage actor/waiter t

> EKG.

>

> Anyway, I suppose it is demeaning to medics. I

> probably even thought so at the time. But that

> particular chapter holds a very dear place in my

> heart...arrhythmias and all.

>

> Connie

>

> --- wegandy1938@wegandy wrote:

>

> > I suggest you look at it very closely before you get

> > " jazzed up " about it.

> > It has many, many deficiences. It may look great

> > but the content isn't there

> > in many areas such as anatomy/physiology,

> > cardiology, pharmacology, and so

> > on. Also, the tone is less than professional.

> > Paramedics don't need funny

> > little cartoons to learn from. What they need is

> > good, solid, science based

> > material. The 6th edition largely lacks that. I

> > think it's demeaning to

> > paramedics. I would not recommend it under any

> > circumstances.

> >

> > Gene G.

> > In a message dated 10/23/07 8:09:26 AM,

> > radmedic2001@radmedic2 writes:

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I received the sixth edition today and I am jazzed

> > about book,it looks

> > > great. Can't wait to teach out of it. It comes

> > with al load of CD's to help teach.

> > > A complete ppt for presentations.

> > >

> > > Larry wrote: The

> > more 'seasoned' medics on the

> > > list cut their teeth as medics on the early (Pre

> > 1st, 1st and 2nd) editions

> > > of Dr. Caroline's book. EMS has grown and other

> > excellent authors have picked

> > > up Dr. Caroline's fallen torch (she died a few

> > years back while serving as

> > > the director of the Magen Adom - the

> > nation-wide EMS / Red Cross

> > > equivalent of Israel).

> > >

> > > I haven't seen the 6th edition, but I am curious

> > to see if some of her

> > > analogies / stories are intact,or if they have

> > been replaced.

> > >

> > > I concur with Wes and the others. If something

> > isn't making sense one way,

> > > approach it by reading another source.

> > >

> > > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and

> > prepares for them; the

> > > simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the

> > consequences. " A prudent man

> > >

> > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

> > >

[Guest guest]

Political aspersions aside you are absolutely right another thing Doc B has

moaned about is how we keep these P level texts at the 8th and 9th grade

levels.

I'm not any Einstein but when I did Chapters for one paramedic level book I

used the MS word Properties to determine my writing level, I found myself

writing at a consistent freshman to sophomore college level. The Editors had to

" back peddle " my use of language and the like so as to meet some phantom

standard and not just with those Chapters but this has happened over and over

to

me as an Author even with respect to some periodical. It's mind numbing to me

that we do this?

The other thing is I have had at least one Information publisher tell me

that unless I wrote in very specific (I mean Micro Macro managed specifics) that

they would not consider my work for their on-line learning system as that was

their " standard " I tried my best but the one topic I took on for them would

not allow me to do it their way so I canceled the contract and went on with

life.

As educators we CANNOT allow things like this to dictate how we teach!!!

No one goes to any 2-year college program on any ONE book, no one would

think of that yet we say a full decent Paramedic course is at least the value of

half of that AS Level education so why would we expect ONE book to suffice.

I doubt if any of the named authors on the covers of any text would purport

theirs to be the be all and end al of any Lavel of EMS training and if they

did I'd loose some of my respect for them.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

Well said, Wes. As long as EMS is like shop class, we're doomed to be the

dishwashers of the medical profession.

GG

>

> IMHO, Power Points supplied by the publisher are often used by those

> instructors who are unfamiliar with material themselves.

>

> Unfortunately, the all-too-common model of EMS education is:

> 1) Go through the publisher's PowerPoints.

> 2) Intersperse a war story (usually about a nasty trauma case) with the

> slides.

> 3) Give an exam from the supplied test bank.

> 4) Await phone calls from students asking, " Why did I fail National

> Registry? "

>

> EMS education is a two way street.? Yes, the instructors could do better.?

> But the students also have to recognize and accept that anything past

> elementary school isn't going to " spoon feed " you the answers.

>

> Alas, when EMS is considered a vocational program in many college

> environments, we're doomed to be sent the students " who aren't smart enough to

succeed

> in a degree program. "

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> Re: Caroline's Emergency Care in the Streets

>

> Ditto. I do my own PowerPoints. And I include a bunch of stuff that's in

> the curriculum but not covered well in the books.

>

> The publishers seem to have these notions that there must be a strict limit

> on the number of pages that they'll publish in a paramedic text.

> Bledsoe has complained about that over and over.

>

> The fact is that if you go to nurseing school, you will use many textbooks,

> any one of which is as big as either Bledsoe's or ' one-volume book.

>

> No wonder we are looked down upon by the rest of the medical profession.

>

> Hasn't the time come for us to use materials that are not written to

> W. Bush's level?

>

> GG

>

>

> >

> > The other problem I have with ALL of the EMS Texts that I have had the

> > pleasure of reviewing (a few from each of the major Publishers over the

> past

> > two

> > years at all levels, even a few fire titles) is that overall I find the

> > PowerPoint's that they supply to be lacking both in content and in

> context,

> > the

> > time they spend in building those seems to be the least of all in the

> > package

> > development time equation with the only thing I find to be more poorly

> done

> > in

> > those Instructor packages is the exam question banks which basically

> violate

> > every law of solid test item development that I've ever been taught in my

> > career.

> >

> > Overall I am very unimpressed with everyone's PowerPoint's and their

> exams.

> >

> > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/

> > Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine

> >

> > LNMolino@...

> >

> > (Cell Phone)

> > (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> > (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

> >

> > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> > unless I

> > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only

> > for its

> > stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by

> > the

> > original author.

> >

> > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********http://www.aol.htt

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I know how frustrating it can be dealing with publishers. The editors

assigned don't have a clue about the subject matter, and they continually demand

" dumbing down " of the writing.

I think some of the editors themselves cannot read and write at better than

7th grade level.

Next we'll have The Paramedic Coloring Book.

GG

>

> Political aspersions aside you are absolutely right another thing Doc B has

> moaned about is how we keep these P level texts at the 8th and 9th grade

> levels.

>

> I'm not any Einstein but when I did Chapters for one paramedic level book I

> used the MS word Properties to determine my writing level, I found myself

> writing at a consistent freshman to sophomore college level. The Editors had

> to

> " back peddle " my use of language and the like so as to meet some phantom

> standard and not just with those Chapters but this has happened over and

> over to

> me as an Author even with respect to some periodical. It's mind numbing to

> me

> that we do this?

>

> The other thing is I have had at least one Information publisher tell me

> that unless I wrote in very specific (I mean Micro Macro managed specifics)

> that

> they would not consider my work for their on-line learning system as that

> was

> their " standard " I tried my best but the one topic I took on for them would

> not allow me to do it their way so I canceled the contract and went on with

> life.

>

> As educators we CANNOT allow things like this to dictate how we teach!!!

>

> No one goes to any 2-year college program on any ONE book, no one would

> think of that yet we say a full decent Paramedic course is at least the

> value of

> half of that AS Level education so why would we expect ONE book to suffice.

>

> I doubt if any of the named authors on the covers of any text would purport

> theirs to be the be all and end al of any Lavel of EMS training and if they

> did I'd loose some of my respect for them.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance Cons Freelance Consultant/Traine

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original author.

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt

>

>