Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

[Guest guest]

I would concur with Steve in that ideally there should be some

regional communication/ccordination of resource status availability

but as of yet have found the EMSystem site to be lacking.

The past minutes of the RAC TSA-E executive committee meetings should

reflect where there were concerns brought up about not all of the

airmedical providers using the EMSystem web site and where by one

provider said that it was too problematic and not practical or

a " real " reflection of wether nor not an air asset was truly

available (could be in service but coming back from a drop off,

etc...) and that they would NOT use EMSystem for that reason. After

being brought public and that ALL of the other providers were

agreeing to use the system then that particular provider agreed to

start using the system.

However, since that meeting and the changes that they stated they

would implement the process has not been kept accurate and

consistent.

I know for fact that there have been several instances where the site

has shown a resource FBO as available and that helicopter was

committed for the entire duration of their response and transport

which would leave any other provider to believe that, if needed, they

could call on that resource when it actually was not available.

PHI at Meacham and Careflite Ft. Worth are the two closest FBO's to

my city. It has been my experience in monitoring the EMSystem web

site and the local response of PHI and Careflite that Careflite

consistently does not update their status and that for that reason we

cannot and will not use EMSystem until something changes.

Hopefully there will be a better fix to come along and give us all a

better way to serve our patients.

And for the record, YES, I am proud to say that we are one of the

cities fortunate enough to have Dr. Roy Yamada as our medical

director.

> Sit down, Dudley, because we're going to agree again.

>

> There's another interesting aspect I'm seeing here in AZ.

People

> are

> calling the helo because the ground EMS services are so bad.

>

> Arizona is a " certificate of need " state, and a new

certificate

> is almost

> impossible to get. Rural/Metro has the private areas sewed up

> and it is very,

> very powerful in the Legislature.

>

> I have had several medics from this area tell me that If I'm

in

> a wreck or

> get bad sick, demand a helo and get enroute to Phoenix or El

> Paso post haste.

>

> Sucks, doesn't it? AZ is 30 years behind Texas in MOST places.

> There are

> a few bright spots I have found, like Sierra Vista, but the

> bright spots are

> few and far between.

>

> GG

> In a message dated 10/21/07 3:46:02 PM, THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT)

> <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com

> <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> writes:

>

> >

> > There was a 2nd article in the Star Telegram today too:

> >

> > http://www.star-

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/www.stahttp:/www.

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/www.stahttp:/www.> >

> http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

> <http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.>

> <http://www.star-

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/www.stahttp:/www.

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/www.stahttp:/www.> >

> http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.

> <http://wwhttp://www.stahttp://www.> >

> >

> > Interesting in both of these articles...no one cited a

> detrimental outcome

> > to any patients.? Since most air medical programs fly many

> many patients who

> > do not need to be flown, it is probably hard to find where a

> patient was

> > actually harmed by?any of this.?

> >

> > The fact of the matter is, this is happening all over the

> state.? Like

> > someone I know says...you could walk from Dallas to San

> on rotor

> > blades...it is getting ridiculous.? And besides patients

> getting harmed (accidents,

> > huge bills, huge trauma center bills when they could have

been

> seen at the

> > local ED, etc) now we are seeing EMS agencies starting to

get

> harmed.? EMS

> > agencies who are being taken advantage of, lobbied, and

wined

> and dined are making

> > decisions based upon this or some other faulty things and

> because one

> > helicopter program got the call over the other...we are now

> contacting the media and

> > getting these ground services slammed in the media and

having

> their decision

> > making questioned publicly.

> >

> > Here is the deal, we have allowed a system to develop where

> the only thing

> > to do with trauma patients is put them on a helicopter..

Here

> is the deal, we

> > have allowed a system to develop where the only thing to do

> with trauma

> > patients is put them on a helicopter..<wbr>.we never got any

> negative feedback

> > from our flight services because they certainly don't want

us

> to call anyone

> > else to take our patients...at the same time,?they bring

> pizza, pies, " lz

> > classes " complete with free Here is the deal, we have

allowed

> a system to develop

> > where the only thing to do with trauma patients is put them

on

> a helicopter..<

> > wbr>.we never got any negative feedback from our fl

> >

> > My question is do the other flight services (not just

> CareFlight.. My

> > question is do the other flight services (not just

> CareFlight..<wbr>.there is at

> > least one other besides them and PHI) refuse calls or turf

> them to closer

> > flight services when they are not the closest helicopter??

> Does their medical

> > directors only direct the helicopter program?? No they

don't.?

> This is going on

> > all over the state (and nation).? The truly sad part is that

> these flight

> > services are now willing to throw the very customers that

> they?need to?call them

> > to survive, under the bus because one service or another has

> an upper hand in

> > a certain area or region...knowing that the ground EMS

service

> will just

> > take it on the chin...because My question is do the other

> flight services (not

> > jus

> >

> > We need a change.? We need federal law changes so that the

> antiquated

> > airline deregulation laws that apply to air medical services

> (for some stupid

> > reason)?can be changed so that states can regulate air

medical

> services both on

> > operations and safety factors.? Then the State of Texas

needs

> to develop a

> > state-wide helicopter plan, dividing the state into regions,

> dictate who can

> > operate in each region, and put performance criteria on

these

> agencies so that

> > they have to perform in these regions....and stop this

flights

> at all cost

> > mentality that is currently growing and growing across this

> state.?

> >

> > " They weren't the closest " ; " You can't land on this

helipad " ;

> " You have to

> > use our helicopter if we take your patient " ; " Let me sell MY

> subscription plan

> > here even though we don't fly here " ; " Call us whenever for

> whatever, we

> > don't mind " ....this has to stop...it is getting out of

> hand...and if you think

> > " our flight service doesn't do this kind of thing " you are

> probably wrong.?

> >

> > Ground EMS folks beware...if it hasn't happened to you...it

is

> coming...get

> > your house in order...the next call from a newspaper may be

to

> you asking why

> > you did or did not utilize helicopter A (or C or D).

> >

> > Dudley

> >

> > Careflite propagand via the Star

> Telegram

> >

> > Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

> >

> > The Vice President of Operations of Methodist

Hospital,

> an RN, sits

> > on the board at DFW Airport.

> >

> > Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit

> organization, as stated in

> > the article.

> >

> > That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several

> county operated EMS

> > services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

> >

> > I don't recall any statistics from County in the

> article as well.

> >

> > No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum

> of care, less

> > arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and

trash

> our ambulances.

> >

> > http://www.star-

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.sthttp

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.sthttp> >

> http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

> <http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp>

> <http://www.star-

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.sthttp

> <http://www.star-http:/wwhttp:/wwhttp:/www.sthttp> >

> http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp

> <http://wwhttp://wwhttp://www.sthttp> >

> >

> > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

> >

[Guest guest]

I like the EMSsystem, having used it in Phoenix and Houston. However, like

anything else with computers, it is a matter of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

Failing to update is the weakest link in the system.

Larry RN LP

Houston

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I suppose I've been involved in this TRAC stuff just as long as anyone. Had the

privilege of working closely in the RAC-E in injury prevention and EMS

committees for a few years. Helicopter issues will always be an issue.

Whenever Columbia-One( now previous LifeStar) first started hospitals refused to

use them even though one base was right down the street because : 1. They were

based out of the 'evil empire' called Columbia. 2. They 'only' staffed 2 CCT

paramedics on their ship. Sometimes hospitals would wait hours to transport

because of these reasons, and only a helo could be used - not a ground unit.

As Mr. Bledsen has discussed before - why use a helicopter when a ground unit

will do???? If a patient is waiting 30 minutes on scene to be transported, and

a level III-IV facility is 10 minutes away - the trauma system was originally

designed to take the patient there, then transport if needed. That's why the

level III-IV facilities are called STABILIZATION FACILITIES. A learnered

physician is at that level III-IV facility who can provide just that - physician

level care, physician level stabilization, making it easier for the level I-II

physician. Most ground based units have the exact same toys and level of staff

helos have - which do not include physican level care.

Maybe we need to get back to educating EMS providers on the original intent of

the trauma system - to use it all. This includes the level III-IV facilities.

Some of you boys and girls will not like this, but how many of you were there in

1992 when the testimonies and original research based concepts were

established??

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Larry

[larn572001@...]

Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:10 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Re: Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

I like the EMSsystem, having used it in Phoenix and Houston. However, like

anything else with computers, it is a matter of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

Failing to update is the weakest link in the system.

Larry RN LP

Houston

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2007 4:01:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

ctacdoc657@... writes:

What does Non-Profit mean exactly in the air industry?

Same as every other industry, it is a legal and financial term.

It has very little to do with money itself actually if you think about it.

See: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_organization_

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_organization)

A non-profit organization (abbreviated " NPO " , also " non-profit " or

" not-for-profit " ) is a legally constituted organization whose primary objective

is to

support or to actively engage in activities of public or private interest

without any commercial or monetary profit purposes. NPOs are active in a wide

range of areas, including the environment, humanitarian aid, animal protection,

education, the arts, social issues, charities, early childhood education,

health care, politics, religion, research, sports or other endeavors.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

Welcome to public life.

In law, there's a saying that not only must real impropriety be avoided, but

EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY.

When one is in the public spotlight, as is anyone who manages a business that

provides services to the public, works with public agencies, and performs a

service that is of interest to the media, it is unfortunately common to find

oneself in the glare of the media spotlight.

Often an innocent arrangement can be made to look questionable, when there

was no bad intent at all. Newspaper reporters are, unfortunately, subject to

subtle manipulation by sources. Often they are writing about subjects they

know little about, and although most of them have journalistic training, they

still can make mistakes.

I regret that a good man's integrity has been questioned, but he's not the

first one, and I trust that his integrity and professionalism will prevail. As

the saying goes, " Truth will out. "

What this whole thread has illustrated to me is that a freelance system of

helicopter response will not work. It is wasting resources, threatening

patients' and the public's well-being, and creating bad public relations for

all.

I have seen fierce competition between air medical programs, led by the Suits

rather than the Troops, to nobody's benefit.

Competition is good when it does not affect innocent people.

Must strict rules be enacted to govern the deployment of air medical

assets?

Nobody would think that the airline business should be deregulated further so

that airlines could take off and land anywhere at any time, governed by

nobody but themselves. Yet that is what is happening in the air medical

business.

There is a point when externally imposed regulations must be developed and

enforced.

Have we reached that point in air medical operations?

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

>

> The original article was never intended to bring any discredit I am certain,

> however since no other medical directors were mentioned and none of their

> ties were brought to light, a Medical Director is being bashed in the National

> Spot light...... Had everyone's positions and ties to services been brought

> out in the open then everyone can look at it objectively, instead only one

> agency and Medical Director is being made the center of the problem.... This

is

> wrong, no matter how you put it. JEMS NEWS FROM THE WIRE: Lead in - Medical

> Directors Ties Questioned

>

> The article:

> EMS Units Bypassed Nearest Helicopters: Physician Says Ties to a Firm Don't

> Influence Agencies' Decisions

> Danny Robbins

> Fort Worth Star-Telegram (Texas)

> 2007 Oct 21

>

> This is sad...

>

> What does Non-Profit mean exactly in the air industry?

>

> Chris

>

>

> Larry wrote:

> I like the EMSsystem, having used it in Phoenix and Houston. However, like

> anything else with computers, it is a matter of GIGO (garbage in, garbage

> out). Failing to update is the weakest link in the system.

>

> Larry RN LP

> Houston

>

> " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

> simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " A prudent man

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2007 4:34:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

Have we reached that point in air medical operations?

It's being and has ben done in other systems. Until very recently there were

NO private birds in some northeastern states. That's changing however due to

well the suits as you put it.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

I really hate to see articles like this that put the ethics and

creditability of ems providers and doctors into question.

Requesting a public safety dispatcher to notify the closest helo in

an area serviced by three or four agencies is not practical. By the

time calls were made to two, three, or four diferent agencies, a

decision was made who was closest, a call back was made to request

launch, ect., you can see where this is going. However if Careflite,

PHI, ect., is requested by name, dispatch makes one call and that

issue, on a scene that probably has multiple important issues

occurring in a very compressed amount of time, is resolved. In my

20+ years of service I have yet to work with any air units that were

not elite and did not make a bad situation a little (a lot) better

for the patient and the first responders. I beleive this isssue can

only be resolved by ethical and honest behavior by the air services.

If the call is made to an air service for a call in North Dallas,

and their nearest helo is in Fort Worth, they, not the first

responders, should make the call to get a closer agency's helo

enroute. When a fire department calls for a helo it is a critical

situation and it is of no importance or concern if helo's color is

blue, orange, black, yellow, or pink, the patient certainly doesn't

care. All air agencies have been, and are, " victims " of fly overs or

not being called even though closer. However, until a 1-800-AIRMED

system is developed for centralized dispatch it will continue to

occur. Agencies are primarily called for by name for practical, not

unethical reasons. Be safe.

-- In texasems-l , Jimenez

wrote:

>

> Many air providers cannot give an immediate ETA until the unit is

actually dispatched... that is, the crew gets the information and

the pilot plot their course and gets information on weather,etc. In

many cases, the pilot gives the ETA, not the communications center.

The communications center relays the pilot's ETA to the crew

requesting them. This is what burns the time up and why ETA's are

not readily available.

>

>

>

>

> Careflite propagand via the Star Telegram

> >

> > Things this article conveniently forgets to mention:

> >

> > The Vice President of Operations of Methodist Hospital,

an RN, sits

> > on the board at DFW Airport.

> >

> > Methodist sponsors Careflite, a non profit organization,

as stated in

> > the article.

> >

> > That Careflite ground has attempted to take over several county

operated EMS

> > services. He who has the ground, will also have the air.

> >

> > I don't recall any statistics from County in the article

as well.

> >

> > No mention of why PHI is preferred over Careflite. Continuum of

care, less

> > arragont crews that don't sit on the ground forever and trash

our ambulances.

> >

> > http://www.star- http://wwhttp: //wwhttp: //www.sthttp

> >

> > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ _

> >

[Guest guest]

The original article was never intended to bring any discredit I am certain,

however since no other medical directors were mentioned and none of their ties

were brought to light, a Medical Director is being bashed in the National Spot

light...... Had everyone's positions and ties to services been brought out in

the open then everyone can look at it objectively, instead only one agency and

Medical Director is being made the center of the problem.... This is wrong, no

matter how you put it. JEMS NEWS FROM THE WIRE: Lead in - Medical Directors

Ties Questioned

The article:

EMS Units Bypassed Nearest Helicopters: Physician Says Ties to a Firm Don't

Influence Agencies' Decisions

Danny Robbins

Fort Worth Star-Telegram (Texas)

2007 Oct 21

This is sad...

What does Non-Profit mean exactly in the air industry?

Chris

Larry wrote:

I like the EMSsystem, having used it in Phoenix and Houston. However,

like anything else with computers, it is a matter of GIGO (garbage in, garbage

out). Failing to update is the weakest link in the system.

Larry RN LP

Houston

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2007 8:34:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

amedd1234@... writes:

However, until a 1-800-AIRMED system is developed for centralized dispatch

it will continue to occur. Agencies are primarily called for by name for

practical, not unethical reasons. Be safe.

We had that type of system in New Jersey you called one of two 800 Numbers

told one of the two dedicated Helo dispatch centers you needed a Chopper at X

point and they got you your bird, gave you an ETA and poof it was done.

Smaller state tighter controls and the like but it has been done.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

Some time back, not sure when, but the EPAB system which governs the

greater Area Metropolitan Ambulance Authority (AMAA) dba MedStar,

decided that calls South of I-30 would go to Careflite Ft. Worth and

calls North of I-30 to PHI out of Meacham(exact boundaries may be

different). Again, this happened sometime within the last couple of

years.

It may have stemmed in part to a very sad event that occurred and if

the circumstances are incorrect I apologize deeply now to anyone

offended for the error.

Fort Worth Police Officer Hank Nava was mortally wounded while

carrying out his duties in November of 2005 in the 7000 block of

Marvin Brown Road in North Fort Worth. At the time of his

injury the call was placed to Careflite to respond a helicopter,

which they did. The helicopter out of Fort Worth, located on the roof

of Fort Worth, launched and flew past the PHI Helicopter FBO

located at Meacham (which was in service and available and nearly half

the distance closer to the scene).

The Careflite helicopter made the scene and transported Officer Nava

back to Fort Worth where he later died.

Again, if this is not what happened then I deeply apologize for any

offense in my error.

>

>

> In a message dated 10/24/2007 4:34:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> wegandy1938@... writes:

>

> Have we reached that point in air medical operations?

>

> It's being and has ben done in other systems. Until very recently

there were

> NO private birds in some northeastern states. That's changing

however due to

> well the suits as you put it.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services

(LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author

and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated

with unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is

intended only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the

> original author.

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

I appreciate the information.... How has that worked with the zoning of

airspace. It would seem to me it would be kinda like workings of the fire

department and when one is not available the next up gets the call and so-on.

Chris

sdplp wrote:

Some time back, not sure when, but the EPAB system which governs the

greater Area Metropolitan Ambulance Authority (AMAA) dba MedStar,

decided that calls South of I-30 would go to Careflite Ft. Worth and

calls North of I-30 to PHI out of Meacham(exact boundaries may be

different). Again, this happened sometime within the last couple of

years.

It may have stemmed in part to a very sad event that occurred and if

the circumstances are incorrect I apologize deeply now to anyone

offended for the error.

Fort Worth Police Officer Hank Nava was mortally wounded while

carrying out his duties in November of 2005 in the 7000 block of

Marvin Brown Road in North Fort Worth. At the time of his

injury the call was placed to Careflite to respond a helicopter,

which they did. The helicopter out of Fort Worth, located on the roof

of Fort Worth, launched and flew past the PHI Helicopter FBO

located at Meacham (which was in service and available and nearly half

the distance closer to the scene).

The Careflite helicopter made the scene and transported Officer Nava

back to Fort Worth where he later died.

Again, if this is not what happened then I deeply apologize for any

offense in my error.

>

>

> In a message dated 10/24/2007 4:34:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> wegandy1938@... writes:

>

> Have we reached that point in air medical operations?

>

> It's being and has ben done in other systems. Until very recently

there were

> NO private birds in some northeastern states. That's changing

however due to

> well the suits as you put it.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services

(LNMECS)

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

> (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author

and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated

with unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is

intended only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the

> original author.

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

>