Apraxia & Dyslexia link????

[Guest guest]

I am writing this to find out if there is a possible link between

the two disorders? SOme of you have children that are older and are

you finding them to have issues in reading? I know that dyslexia is

broad term and does not just cause reversals. My son is 6 and in K

with apraxia and is really having problems with sounding out letters

in words. He is considered apraxic with mild language delays. Is

this caused from the apraxia??? He knows the letters and their

sounds but to blend them is giving him problems. Also he is having

trouble putting words in order to make sentences. He has a great

visual memory and is able to recognize his site words in text. He

also has trouble with which object is second, greater than, less

than. He can count forward and backward from thirty and can count

to 100 given a visual.

I hope I am making sense......some of the private schools in my

area gear their schools to " dyslexia and other language based

disorders " . I always thought apraxia was an articulation/motor

disorder and not related to language but I am finding out more and

more that language will be effected especially syntax. Please any

thoughts on this will be helpful in my search for the right school.

Thanks,

Mia

[Guest guest]

You may find these articles and Dr. 's work of interest. From

what I've read - it is not unusual to see apraxia and dyslexia occurring

together. (And more hopeful.. I've heard that early intervention may help

ameliorate the risk of dyslexia developing in the apraxic child - no hard

evidence to support that from what I can find - but still a good goal to

strive for. We have lots of dyslexia experience in our family (since so

many on my husband's side have it) - our baby is the first with apraxia. His

2 sibs are dyslexic (Dad dx'd at age 7, our 7 year-old daughter with

confirmed dx, 4.5 son not officially dx'd but we're highly suspicious and

getting him into a special program before Kindergarden to avoid the K

failure). Only time will tell with the baby (nearly 2.5 years)...but now

dealing with apraxia - dyslexia seems like " no big deal " . Its all relative.

It seemed like a big deal when my daughter was struggling a few years back.

She's done great with special classes geared towards dyslexic kids and now

loves to read, and reads well. Getting the right help and getting it early

is key. There are some great programs out there - best to get your child

tested for dyslexia if you are concerned. It is very difficult for kids with

dyslexia to learn through conventional methods and a different approach can

make all the difference. We used " reading revolution " through the active

reading clinic (Northern California) - but there are many good programs out

there. -

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: Lipids. 2004 Dec;39(12):1215-22. Related Articles, Links

Long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in childhood developmental and

psychiatric disorders.

AJ.

University Lab of Physiology and Mansfield College, Oxford, United Kindgdom.

alex.richardson@...

Both omega-3 and omega-6 long-chain PUFA (LC-PUFA) are crucial to brain

development and function, but omega-3 LC-PUFA in particular are often

lacking in modern diets in developed countries. Increasing evidence,

reviewed here, indicates that LC-PUFA deficiencies or imbalances are

associated with childhood developmental and psychiatric disorders including

ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and autistic spectrum disorders. These conditions

show a high clinical overlap and run in the same families, as well as

showing associations with various adult psychiatric disorders in which FA

abnormalities are already implicated, such as depression, other mood

disorders, and schizophrenia. Preliminary evidence from controlled trials

also suggests that dietary supplementation with LC-PUFA might help in the

management of these kinds of childhood behavioral and learning difficulties.

Treatment with omega-3 FA appears most promising, but the few small studies

published to date have involved different populations, study designs,

treatments, and outcome measures. Large-scale studies are now needed to

confirm the benefits reported. Further research is also required to assess

the durability of such treatment effects, to determine optimal treatment

compositions and dosages, and to develop reliable ways of identifying those

individuals most likely to benefit from this kind of treatment. Childhood

developmental and psychiatric disorders clearly reflect multifactorial

influences, but the study of LC-PUFA and their metabolism could offer

important new approaches to their early identification and management.

Heterogeneity and comorbidity are such, however, that a focus on specific

traits or symptoms may prove more fruitful than an exclusive reliance on

current diagnostic categories.

Publication Types:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------

1: Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2004 Apr;70(4):383-90. Related

Articles, Links

Clinical trials of fatty acid treatment in ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and the

autistic spectrum.

AJ.

University Laboratory of Physiology, Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PT, UK.

alex.richardson@...

Considerable clinical and experimental evidence now supports the idea that

deficiencies or imbalances in certain highly unsaturated fatty acids may

contribute to a range of common developmental disorders including ADHD,

dyslexia, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum disorders (ASD). Definitive

evidence of a causal contribution, however, can only come from intervention

studies in the form of randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials.

Published studies of this kind are still fairly few in number, and mainly

involve the diagnostic categories of ADHD and dyslexia, although other

trials involving individuals with dyspraxia or ASD are in progress. The main

findings to date from such studies are reviewed and evaluated here with the

primary aim of guiding future research, although given that fatty acid

supplementation for these conditions is already being adopted in many

quarters, it is hoped that some of the information provided may also help to

inform clinical practice.

Publication Types:

[ ] Apraxia & Dyslexia link????

I am writing this to find out if there is a possible link between

the two disorders? SOme of you have children that are older and are

you finding them to have issues in reading? I know that dyslexia is

broad term and does not just cause reversals. My son is 6 and in K

with apraxia and is really having problems with sounding out letters

in words. He is considered apraxic with mild language delays. Is

this caused from the apraxia??? He knows the letters and their

sounds but to blend them is giving him problems. Also he is having

trouble putting words in order to make sentences. He has a great

visual memory and is able to recognize his site words in text. He

also has trouble with which object is second, greater than, less

than. He can count forward and backward from thirty and can count

to 100 given a visual.

I hope I am making sense......some of the private schools in my

area gear their schools to " dyslexia and other language based

disorders " . I always thought apraxia was an articulation/motor

disorder and not related to language but I am finding out more and

more that language will be effected especially syntax. Please any

thoughts on this will be helpful in my search for the right school.

Thanks,

Mia

[Guest guest]

hi claudia,

what were the early signs of dyslexia in your apraxic child and what were the

signs with your non-apraxic children? there is dyslexia in my husbands family

too

thanks

chris

<claudiamorris@...> wrote:

You may find these articles and Dr. 's work of interest. From

what I've read - it is not unusual to see apraxia and dyslexia occurring

together. (And more hopeful.. I've heard that early intervention may help

ameliorate the risk of dyslexia developing in the apraxic child - no hard

evidence to support that from what I can find - but still a good goal to

strive for. We have lots of dyslexia experience in our family (since so

many on my husband's side have it) - our baby is the first with apraxia. His

2 sibs are dyslexic (Dad dx'd at age 7, our 7 year-old daughter with

confirmed dx, 4.5 son not officially dx'd but we're highly suspicious and

getting him into a special program before Kindergarden to avoid the K

failure). Only time will tell with the baby (nearly 2.5 years)...but now

dealing with apraxia - dyslexia seems like " no big deal " . Its all relative.

It seemed like a big deal when my daughter was struggling a few years back.

She's done great with special classes geared towards dyslexic kids and now

loves to read, and reads well. Getting the right help and getting it early

is key. There are some great programs out there - best to get your child

tested for dyslexia if you are concerned. It is very difficult for kids with

dyslexia to learn through conventional methods and a different approach can

make all the difference. We used " reading revolution " through the active

reading clinic (Northern California) - but there are many good programs out

there. -

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: Lipids. 2004 Dec;39(12):1215-22. Related Articles, Links

Long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in childhood developmental and

psychiatric disorders.

AJ.

University Lab of Physiology and Mansfield College, Oxford, United Kindgdom.

alex.richardson@...

Both omega-3 and omega-6 long-chain PUFA (LC-PUFA) are crucial to brain

development and function, but omega-3 LC-PUFA in particular are often

lacking in modern diets in developed countries. Increasing evidence,

reviewed here, indicates that LC-PUFA deficiencies or imbalances are

associated with childhood developmental and psychiatric disorders including

ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and autistic spectrum disorders. These conditions

show a high clinical overlap and run in the same families, as well as

showing associations with various adult psychiatric disorders in which FA

abnormalities are already implicated, such as depression, other mood

disorders, and schizophrenia. Preliminary evidence from controlled trials

also suggests that dietary supplementation with LC-PUFA might help in the

management of these kinds of childhood behavioral and learning difficulties.

Treatment with omega-3 FA appears most promising, but the few small studies

published to date have involved different populations, study designs,

treatments, and outcome measures. Large-scale studies are now needed to

confirm the benefits reported. Further research is also required to assess

the durability of such treatment effects, to determine optimal treatment

compositions and dosages, and to develop reliable ways of identifying those

individuals most likely to benefit from this kind of treatment. Childhood

developmental and psychiatric disorders clearly reflect multifactorial

influences, but the study of LC-PUFA and their metabolism could offer

important new approaches to their early identification and management.

Heterogeneity and comorbidity are such, however, that a focus on specific

traits or symptoms may prove more fruitful than an exclusive reliance on

current diagnostic categories.

Publication Types:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------

1: Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2004 Apr;70(4):383-90. Related

Articles, Links

Clinical trials of fatty acid treatment in ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and the

autistic spectrum.

AJ.

University Laboratory of Physiology, Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PT, UK.

alex.richardson@...

Considerable clinical and experimental evidence now supports the idea that

deficiencies or imbalances in certain highly unsaturated fatty acids may

contribute to a range of common developmental disorders including ADHD,

dyslexia, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum disorders (ASD). Definitive

evidence of a causal contribution, however, can only come from intervention

studies in the form of randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials.

Published studies of this kind are still fairly few in number, and mainly

involve the diagnostic categories of ADHD and dyslexia, although other

trials involving individuals with dyspraxia or ASD are in progress. The main

findings to date from such studies are reviewed and evaluated here with the

primary aim of guiding future research, although given that fatty acid

supplementation for these conditions is already being adopted in many

quarters, it is hoped that some of the information provided may also help to

inform clinical practice.

Publication Types:

[ ] Apraxia & Dyslexia link????

I am writing this to find out if there is a possible link between

the two disorders? SOme of you have children that are older and are

you finding them to have issues in reading? I know that dyslexia is

broad term and does not just cause reversals. My son is 6 and in K

with apraxia and is really having problems with sounding out letters

in words. He is considered apraxic with mild language delays. Is

this caused from the apraxia??? He knows the letters and their

sounds but to blend them is giving him problems. Also he is having

trouble putting words in order to make sentences. He has a great

visual memory and is able to recognize his site words in text. He

also has trouble with which object is second, greater than, less

than. He can count forward and backward from thirty and can count

to 100 given a visual.

I hope I am making sense......some of the private schools in my

area gear their schools to " dyslexia and other language based

disorders " . I always thought apraxia was an articulation/motor

disorder and not related to language but I am finding out more and

more that language will be effected especially syntax. Please any

thoughts on this will be helpful in my search for the right school.

Thanks,

Mia

[Guest guest]

Hi Mia,

I do believe that there are genetic markers that run in families for

dyslexia and ADHD -but don't know if and how that affects speech

impairments. I say this because even though my brother is ADHD and

my sister is dyslexic -speech impairments have never run in either

my mom or dad's side of the family (other than that my Aunt Betty

was a late talker that didn't speak a word till 3 and then " wouldn't

shut up " and is now fluent in 2 languages) Then again prior to my

brother and sister who were both born and raised in NJ -no prior

history of ADHD or dyslexia either.

http://www.cherab.org/news/Save.html So perhaps they are all

environmentally triggered in some way. I just read this article how

fish oil counteracts pollution for heart disease (but what applies

here....)

" Fish Oil Can Protect Against Air Pollution Effects "

http://medindia.net/medicalnews/latesthealthnews_index.asp

But now that I've said that...

In a way the term developmental apraxia is correct in that the lack

of practice of speech during normal developmental periods can cause

developmental delays in language development. That is 'not' the

same thing as a language disorder in that with time from what we've

seen in this group with the majority of the children that do not

have coexisting cognitive issues (etc.) the " old timers " have

apraxic children that are great readers, great students.

For example -the " having trouble putting words in order " is a sign

of speech language impairment or language learning impairment -which

is s separate disorder of speech that like apraxia one does not

overcome. Given time and practice -apraxic children will go through

the normal developmental stages of chewing, babbling and even

possibly the stages of stuttering or " mixing up words " -but just a

bit later -making it appear like another disorder. Don't fall into

the trap of being too quick to add another diagnosis. Not that it

may not be there -but give the child the benefit of the doubt -

especially since he's only in kindergarten and technically speaking

according to National standards is not expected to really be reading

until first grade. In today's society we judge a child's IQ on how

quickly they talk, read...but in studies a child that reads at 4 is

not necessarily any brighter than a child who starts to read at 7

when you look at them in later years. What is lacking today greatly

are the studies that show the importance of social development/play

in early years. The child's self esteem and making sure he or she

is getting " high fived " for all he " can " do!

Below are a list of archives on methods that helped my son Tanner

that have worked for other too.

Re: reading

I agree with Gin on finding reading is helping Tanner with more

complex speech. Not only that -I agree that multisensory is the way

to go -and do not underestimate our children -they may not just make

it -they may excel above " normal " kids if given the chance (and the

belief in them) And for good reason.

My theory is that because our children don't learn to talk like

everyone else -that in contrast to the popular experience that most

speech impaired children will have learning disabilities -if treated

correctly -our kids may actually in many ways be even better

students than most. As a toy inventor -I'm aware of the basics of

what most kids like -or are like.

There are a few reasons I feel this way -don't have time to go into

all of them now. But for one -most of us have found our children

have these die hard memories! Not a normal memory for a " normal "

child -most kids you can get to forget a point by bringing up

something else that interests them -not many of the children in this

group! (of course you can never say " always " -just more often than

not. Just like the trouble blowing the nose thing that I first

brought up -this is yet another observation you will not read about

in books...yet) When Tanner learns his spelling words -he not only

knows how to spell even hard words -he tells me the word on the list

(of ten each week) and then spells it -like his memory is a picture

he can just look at.

Perhaps -due to using a different pathway and developing such

pathway -they have an edge we don't yet understand. I posted awhile

back that I found Tanner does best for the day if I have him read a

few pages each morning before school -like a warm up. He may start

out sounding each word -then once he is one a roll -he's in the

groove. Just like an apraxic child with words -with reading it's

strange too. Most kids will just read 3 letter words after awhile.

Tanner will whiz through difficult words at times like oxygen -and

have to sound out a word like " pull " Not every time -but enough to

make me take notice. As always -apraxia doesn't make sense in

the " norm " -so don't look at our kids and compare. And if you do -

notice just as well how they excel over others.

I again believe it most important to expose our children to

multisensory ways of learning, and keeping their self esteem high.

This means not exposing these kids to verbal based IQ or receptive

language testing!

Here are some notes on Tanner from an archived message. (again

Tanner is a straight A student in a mainstreamed accelerated

academics first grade class. He is social, has lots of friends -

does not get teased for the way he talks. Other children understand

he has a (now mild for the most part) speech impairment, (more

severe with more complex thoughts) but that he is very bright -and a

fun kid. Tanner is on the chess club, soccer team, and he is a cub

scout. No more therapy outside of speech -and of course

ProEFA/ProEPA and carnosine/carn-aware (the carnosine/carn-aware we

do on and off -the " magic fish oil " -all the time and don't miss a

day...He's doing that well in school -who knows, maybe it is

the " magic fish oil " . funny update -Tanner's teacher asked where she

could buy the fish oil we use for her own family (and self) after

hearing me talk to some other parents about it who also want to know

what we use. Tanner's doing better than some of their children -and

I told them how it helps me with my memory.)

" Here are some of the ways I help Tanner at home with his school

word. I'm sure some of the following examples will apply to any

child -even those who don't have any learning disabilities or speech

problems. It's just that it's the whole picture. Freeze under

pressure -break down the longer the utterance -responds to

multisensory techniques...etc.

( just off the top and not in any order )

Tanner's first grade class was given a " mad minute " math test where

they were given 2 minutes to answer 29 math questions both

subtraction and addition -stuff ranging from 7 + 7 to 11 - 4.

Tanner is a whiz at math -I believe from the Nintendo games and

other computer games such as that they are educational he's learned

much like that in a fun way. But...the first time he was given the

test he mixed up the subtraction and addition signs which he never

does -and got even some easy math questions wrong. When he came

home I just said to him in a really fun animated way (since this was

the first sign of any problem at all) " Tanner -they time you

because we live in Florida now near the Nickelodeon Studios in

Orlando -and just in case we go on Family Double Dare you are going

to have to answer all these questions fast or we'll all

get " SLIMED! " (I said wrinkling up my nose and laughing) BUT -if

you get them all right we'll win really cool prizes! Either way

it's just for fun! " Well the next day the test was given again to

the class and Tanner not only got 100% but was the first one

finished!

Tanner gets 100% on spelling each week, no matter how difficult the

spelling words are. I found the best way to teach him the words is

to use multisensory fun ways. This is just two of them -I'll write

the letters on his back as he says them for each word...but if he

says the wrong letter I don't write it....play game show where we

take turns being the contestant and game show host -jumping up and

down etc. Either Glenn, Dakota or I are the ones who get the

answers spelled wrong (we change our voices and pretend we are

someone else. We'll sound out the word wrong and spell it wrong. I

try to think of how a speech impaired child will say the word and

spell it that way) and Tanner is always the one that is the

contestant to spell it right. If Tanner is the game show host -one

of us will get it right -but the first one will get it wrong.

Tanner always laughs and has to correct us. For the one that won -

he'll have to say what prize they won. We also do " teacher " where

I'm the student and he teaches me the words -warns me about the

silent letters -etc.

I found that even though Tanner will spell each word right if given

one at a time -if he has to put the words in a sentence -he broke

down and spelled words he knows wrong. Once I told him to think of

each word separate - " think game show " -he spells them right.

When Tanner is reading long more complex words such as for example

last night -circulatory (he's learning about blood cells now) he

needs a cue to break it down. For example on his own last night

when I said " Just break it down Tanner and think of it as four

words " Tanner picked up a Jimmy Neutron Mc's toy and for each

syllable he said -as he said it -he turned the toy's head.

Sometimes his apraxia gets in the way of reading certain words at

first. He'll read the word and say the last sound wrong -or the

middle sound wrong. I'll correct him and point to the missed

letter. He'll repeat the word and hesitate at the letter in

question -visibly trying hard to say it right -but again say it

wrong. We'll go over this a few times until I clap my hands -or

give him some other cue to break it down. Once he says it right -

I'll have him repeat it over and over at least three times. I'll

then say the word about ten times over and over until he says " All

right already! " and then we'll move on. If when we get to the word

again he hesitates -I just have to clap or give a cue and he

says " Oh yeah " and says it right very quickly. Then he just gets it

on his own.

Anyone else? "

Lynn -as far as how do you teach a nonverbal child to read...I would

do all the same as above. You may want to read up on Helen Keller.

My son was schooled in preschool in an oral based school for the

hearing impaired/deaf. You don't have to talk to be able to read.

" I knew then that 'w-a-t-e-r' meant the wonderful cool something

that was

flowing over my hand. That living word awakened my soul, gave it

light, hope,

joy, set it free! "

Helen Keller 1880-1968

American writer and lecturer

http://www.theglassceiling.com/biographies/bio20.htm

=====

[Guest guest]

There was one main typo in here -thank you .

I didn't mean to say one does not overcome speech language

impairment -I meant to say one does not outgrow speech language

impairment. Like apraxia there is no " cure " for it -but like

apraxia one learns to overcome it.

=====

[Guest guest]

My apraxic son is only 2.5 - so we have no idea whether dyslexia is going to

be an issue for him...but he has bigger issues.

My daughter (clearly very bright) - very motor, walked at 8 months, talked

normally etc. She had very difficult time with colors...then letters and

symbols. Of course she had the typical reversals of letters - but much of

that is in fact developmentally normal in K and 1st grade - but she did it

constantly and with many of the letters and numbers - not just the typical b

and d etc. In first grade she wrote an entire paragraph upsidedown and

backwards. (And read it as well as if it were written correctly - a talent

my husband also has). From a very early age we could see she " just didn't

get it " when it came to symbols (numbers and letters). Most kids can write

their name by the end of pre-school before K. She couldn't. She was very

determined, and she would sit with the books endlessly trying to understand

these symbols that really made no sense to her. But she was young - so we

figured we would wait since the teachers felt it was maturity (but we were

pretty sure she was dyslexic - mainly because my husband is - was missed for

a few years, hated school and never quite got over that. Undiagnosed, these

children who tend to be very bright, are set up for failure if they don't

get help. They think they are stupid, and are quite aware of the fact that

they can't do what the other kids find easy. They are embarrassed to read -

because they can't. But they often figure out ways to compensate - so they

can get through the early grades without really being recognized, until

things just get too complex. My husband never gave college much of a try and

coasted by. IF you don't try, you won't fail. He just never thought he could

be good at school - so really an attitude that lasted a good part of his

life. NOt until business school did he actually apply himself and he

graduated with a 3.8 GPA. We did not want our kids to have the same bad

experience with school and self esteem that my husband had. Once diagnosed,

my husband spend summers at a boarding school for dyslexic kids to get him

up to speed).

By the end of pre-K I was told that maybe we should hold my daughter back.

This was a very bright kid who really didn't need another year of pre-K, and

teaching her in the same method they had during the year for another year

was not going to help her. The school felt that maybe it was that she wasn't

mature enough to learn letters/numbers etc. But from the school district's

point the kids need to be over a year behind before the school provides

assistance. By that time its too late. The child already will hate school

and has suffered, is embarrassed and is developing poor self esteem.

Watching my daughter with her letters (and I spent lots of one-on-one with

her working on this) there was clearly a disconnect. She " knew " the alphabet

since she was 2. She could tell you every sound a letter made. She just

could not recognize a letter if she saw it - even if you told her 2 minutes

ago what it was. She was trying so hard and not getting it. By the end of

kindergarden, the teacher felt that yes...she really was struggling, and

should have gotten to know more of the alphabet (could only recognize up to

10). But she didn't really know that much about dyslexia - and she was not

" behind enough " to really qualify for school services or an IEP. At this

point we were starting to seeing a change in her disposition. The happy

child who loved school would have outbursts of " I'm stupid " - I can't get

any of the answers right in class...all the other kids are smarter than me " .

She started to get withdrawn. It was so sad to watch this transformation -

since it was EXACTLY what we were hoping to avoid. And it happend so

quickly - within a few weeks. She was really still too young for a good

dyslexia eval (best done in the 6 - 7 age), so we talked to our pediatrician

about - what would be done if she was evaluated and diagnosed with dyslexia.

He told us about the active reading clinic and we got her started the summer

before 1st grade. Within 2 weeks, this child was reading!!! They use a

visual-auditory-kinesthetic-tactile approach and it worked wonders. She

still struggles with some things at school (like math and math problems -

which is really testing your reading skills), but she is doing well and is a

happy child who again loves school. And most important, she has good

self-esteem. We have since had her officially evaluated because she was

having trouble with timed tests etc (timed testing in 2nd grade - kinda

crazy what is expected from our kids!). They called it " compensated

dyslexia " . It is so hard to re-teach these kids once they have established

their own ways to compensate for their reading problems. But giving them the

tools to tackle reading from the very beginning is a much better route.

There are methods that can be learned at home to teach dyslexic kids - I can

get the info and get back to you. We just couldn't take this on ourselves

since I work > 60 hours a week, unfortunately. There was no way I could take

on a project like that - but was fortunate enough to be sent to someone who

was very good at working with dysylexic children.

My nearly 5 year old son is a completely different breed. It was hard to

tell early on that he had any issues - though we were worried about my

daughter by the time she was 3.5. He is also very clever, but he also " just

doesn't care " about reading as much as my daughter did. So he won't sit and

struggle for hours like she did. He will give it about 15 seconds of his

attention, and if its something he can't do - he's off. Not bothered at all,

or so it seemed. In the last few months it turns out that he really does

care, and is very embarrassed that he can't write his name - especially

since they have to do this at school. Its hard for him at school because the

other kids can do it. But the way he deals with it is acting like he doesn't

care. 'So busy with the apraxic 2 year old that I just haven't been able to

focus on him. But he is having even more trouble recognizing symbols than my

daughter was having at his age. So he is going into the active reading

clinic the summer before K - to avoid the Kindergarden failure my daughter

experienced. Key is preserving self-esteem. I don't really care if my 5

year old can read " CAT " , but I do care that he feels good about himself. And

with school performance its all tied together.

If a 6 year old is struggling in school, and you have the means to get him

evaluated and tutored...you might want to look into it. If that is not

possible, then get a school district eval and if its dylexia - you can learn

some of the techniques to help teach these kids. It is so hard to salvage

the self-esteem once they've been failing at it for months. Its so painful

to watch. You can also request an IEP and get the school to evaluate - but

unfortunately our experience was that we needed a private evaluation to get

the information we needed - and we now use that evaluation to work with the

school teachers. In the pre-IEP (is it called an SST? I can't remember

now) - they did some preliminary testing and said - " Oh, your daughter

scored in the superior range for IQ - she is very bright - you should be

happy " . Yes - I know she's bright - but she's at the bottom of the

class...the disconnect. It was kind of crazy, and clear that the school (an

excellent school district) - would do nothing until she was a complete

failure for a year. Later on that year they decided she did need some

" reading help " and took her out of the class for 20 minutes once a week for

reading tuturing. All that did was make her feel different and more

self-conscious - but really not sufficient help to make a difference. Plus

the reading tutor had no knowledge of dyslexia. Ultimately my daughter may

need an IEP at some point - but for now she has the tools to get by. She's

doing " average " which for a dyslexic kid is a success story. She has about a

month left in the reading revolution program - done with the program at a

time when most kids are just getting started.

You know your child better than anyone. If you are worried, you should act

on it. If your child already has apraxia, things have already been more

difficult than for other kids. And there is help for kids with dyslexia.

They just need a different approach to teaching them. But so hard to undo

the damage of low self-esteem. -

[Guest guest]

Beautifully put. These are all problems that dyslexic kids are dealing with,

though.

Some of the methods that " help " are pretty simple too. Like placing a piece

of paper or a ruler under the sentence they are reading to help their eyes

focus on the words at hand. My daughter very often loose her place reading,

or will skip an entire line of math questions - and get it wrong - even

thought she would have been able to answer it correctly. She literally just

didn't " see it " . Highlighing some of the directions when put in a paragraph

is also helpful. Its hard for them to identify the key part of directions in

a paragraph...especially if it involves multiple steps. Little things -

that may take seconds for a teacher to do can help. When we asked for the

key question in directions to be highlighted - I was told we would need an

IEP if they were to do that every time. I said " Your kidding? " You are

going to go through all that paperwork and time, just to highlight a

question? Aren't we all here to help the kids? (We got them to agree that

maybe we didn't need an IEP for that!). And what a difference it made - and

so simple! -claudia

[ ] Apraxia & Dyslexia link????

Hi Mia:

Check with your childs teacher about reading. My non-apraxic

kindergartener is required to know 50 sight words and be able to read

level B books to move on to first grade.

Can you have him evaluated for dyslexia and other language impairments

to help you figure out if it is something other than apraxia?

Has your child been seen by an OT? I may be way out in left field,

but I remember reading about visual-spatial processing skills in The

Out-of-Sinc Child. It says visual discrimination-differentiating

among symbols and forms, such as matching or separating colors,

shapes, numbers, letters, and words.

Visual figure-ground-differentiating objects in the foreground and

background, to distinguish one word on a page, or a face in a crowd.

Visual-spatial functions-understanding that objects keep their basic

shapes regardless of their position (form constancy); seeing the

correct orientation of letters and objects (position in space);judging

distances between objects, or between ourselves and objects (spatial

awareness); and perceiving left and right, up and down, and front and

back (directionality).

child with poor visual-spatial processing may:

confuse likenesses and differences in pictures, words, symbols, and

objects.

omit words or numbers and lose her place while reading and writing.

have difficulty with schoolwork involving the size constancy of

letters, the spacing of letters and words, and the lining up of

numbers.

This may not be your child at all, but thought I would give you the

information anyway.

Best wishes

Tina

[Guest guest]

wow claudia, thanks so much!!!! My son is having trouble with colors, and just

starting to reconize letters/ and writing his name. he's spec ed Kindergarten.

its so ironic that you gave those things as markers to dyslexia because those

things are what exactly he has trouble with (recepitvely) thought maybe was the

apraxia... might get him tested....

who normally tests and diagonoses dyslexia? sped teacher?

thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response

chris

[Guest guest]

I am battling the same question. My son is 9 and had the diagnosis

of

apraxia at 2.5 years old. By 4 years old I asked the slp if he had

auditory processing problems since my husband was treated for it as

a

kid. She said he was good at following directions, but APD has so

many

subtests to it that a comprehensive eval usually is done at 7,8 or 9.

Guess what my son has been confirmed having this year that I

always

had a gut feeling he had . . . APD! Now the school says their

ready

to treat for his educational handicaps. I am investigating the

clinical side of APD which is sound therapy (AIT, Tomatis). The

school would like to give him modifications to alleviate the stress

he

is encountering and not getting to the root of the problem. to be

honest with you I don't know if there are any clear concise ways of

treating APD. Does it ever go away or does the child just learn

accomodations and learns to do things differently than you or I

would

attempt to do.

I look at my husband and how backwards he does things. A lot of the

times he waits for me to complete the task b/c he's still trying to

figure out the proper sequence of doing things. He always will have

the correct answer but never be able to explain how he got it. For

example, a list of chores will be on the fridge. He reads it but

never completes anything. Everything is always half done. He'll

cut the lawn and the grass clippings will be over the driveway and

walk. He thinks his job is finished. It drives me nuts but thats

the way his brain his wired.

APD gets to be very difficult to explain to his superiors in the

workplace, but some will accept his faults others will just plain

fire his A**!

good luck ot you and keep us posted if you find a link! I believe

there is one, just nothing in writing.

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for the information. YOu are right. He is in a regular

kindergarten class and they have raised the curriculum since last

year due to standardized testing and no child left behind. But I

feel with it, my child is being left behind. One of the benchmarks

is that the child has to retell a story using complete sentences.

He can't do this. Another thing is he cannot rhyme or understand

rhyme schemes. Now that you mentioned the various stages, he is at

the stuttering stage of apraxia. He is at the phrase and sentence

level; some make total sense some need to be repeated more than

once. Today he was stuttering so bad, I thought, " Please not

stuttering on top of the apraxia " . We do not have dyslexia in our

family but even if he does not have it....based on what I read, it

seems a multisensory reading program like Lips, project read etc.

may be beneficial to him.

Thanks again,

Mia

>

> Hi Mia,

>

> I do believe that there are genetic markers that run in families

for

> dyslexia and ADHD -but don't know if and how that affects speech

> impairments. I say this because even though my brother is ADHD

and

> my sister is dyslexic -speech impairments have never run in either

> my mom or dad's side of the family (other than that my Aunt Betty

> was a late talker that didn't speak a word till 3 and

then " wouldn't

> shut up " and is now fluent in 2 languages) Then again prior to my

> brother and sister who were both born and raised in NJ -no prior

> history of ADHD or dyslexia either.

> http://www.cherab.org/news/Save.html So perhaps they are all

> environmentally triggered in some way. I just read this article

how

> fish oil counteracts pollution for heart disease (but what applies

> here....)

> " Fish Oil Can Protect Against Air Pollution Effects "

> http://medindia.net/medicalnews/latesthealthnews_index.asp

>

> But now that I've said that...

>

> In a way the term developmental apraxia is correct in that the

lack

> of practice of speech during normal developmental periods can

cause

> developmental delays in language development. That is 'not' the

> same thing as a language disorder in that with time from what

we've

> seen in this group with the majority of the children that do not

> have coexisting cognitive issues (etc.) the " old timers " have

> apraxic children that are great readers, great students.

>

> For example -the " having trouble putting words in order " is a sign

> of speech language impairment or language learning impairment -

which

> is s separate disorder of speech that like apraxia one does not

> overcome. Given time and practice -apraxic children will go

through

> the normal developmental stages of chewing, babbling and even

> possibly the stages of stuttering or " mixing up words " -but just a

> bit later -making it appear like another disorder. Don't fall

into

> the trap of being too quick to add another diagnosis. Not that it

> may not be there -but give the child the benefit of the doubt -

> especially since he's only in kindergarten and technically

speaking

> according to National standards is not expected to really be

reading

> until first grade. In today's society we judge a child's IQ on

how

> quickly they talk, read...but in studies a child that reads at 4

is

> not necessarily any brighter than a child who starts to read at 7

> when you look at them in later years. What is lacking today

greatly

> are the studies that show the importance of social

development/play

> in early years. The child's self esteem and making sure he or she

> is getting " high fived " for all he " can " do!

>

> Below are a list of archives on methods that helped my son Tanner

> that have worked for other too.

>

> Re: reading

>

>

> I agree with Gin on finding reading is helping Tanner with more

> complex speech. Not only that -I agree that multisensory is the way

> to go -and do not underestimate our children -they may not just

make

> it -they may excel above " normal " kids if given the chance (and the

> belief in them) And for good reason.

>

> My theory is that because our children don't learn to talk like

> everyone else -that in contrast to the popular experience that most

> speech impaired children will have learning disabilities -if

treated

> correctly -our kids may actually in many ways be even better

> students than most. As a toy inventor -I'm aware of the basics of

> what most kids like -or are like.

>

> There are a few reasons I feel this way -don't have time to go into

> all of them now. But for one -most of us have found our children

> have these die hard memories! Not a normal memory for a " normal "

> child -most kids you can get to forget a point by bringing up

> something else that interests them -not many of the children in

this

> group! (of course you can never say " always " -just more often than

> not. Just like the trouble blowing the nose thing that I first

> brought up -this is yet another observation you will not read about

> in books...yet) When Tanner learns his spelling words -he not only

> knows how to spell even hard words -he tells me the word on the

list

> (of ten each week) and then spells it -like his memory is a picture

> he can just look at.

>

> Perhaps -due to using a different pathway and developing such

> pathway -they have an edge we don't yet understand. I posted awhile

> back that I found Tanner does best for the day if I have him read a

> few pages each morning before school -like a warm up. He may start

> out sounding each word -then once he is one a roll -he's in the

> groove. Just like an apraxic child with words -with reading it's

> strange too. Most kids will just read 3 letter words after awhile.

> Tanner will whiz through difficult words at times like oxygen -and

> have to sound out a word like " pull " Not every time -but enough to

> make me take notice. As always -apraxia doesn't make sense in

> the " norm " -so don't look at our kids and compare. And if you do -

> notice just as well how they excel over others.

>

> I again believe it most important to expose our children to

> multisensory ways of learning, and keeping their self esteem high.

> This means not exposing these kids to verbal based IQ or receptive

> language testing!

>

> Here are some notes on Tanner from an archived message. (again

> Tanner is a straight A student in a mainstreamed accelerated

> academics first grade class. He is social, has lots of friends -

> does not get teased for the way he talks. Other children understand

> he has a (now mild for the most part) speech impairment, (more

> severe with more complex thoughts) but that he is very bright -and

a

> fun kid. Tanner is on the chess club, soccer team, and he is a cub

> scout. No more therapy outside of speech -and of course

> ProEFA/ProEPA and carnosine/carn-aware (the carnosine/carn-aware we

> do on and off -the " magic fish oil " -all the time and don't miss a

> day...He's doing that well in school -who knows, maybe it is

> the " magic fish oil " . funny update -Tanner's teacher asked where

she

> could buy the fish oil we use for her own family (and self) after

> hearing me talk to some other parents about it who also want to

know

> what we use. Tanner's doing better than some of their children -and

> I told them how it helps me with my memory.)

>

> " Here are some of the ways I help Tanner at home with his school

> word. I'm sure some of the following examples will apply to any

> child -even those who don't have any learning disabilities or

speech

> problems. It's just that it's the whole picture. Freeze under

> pressure -break down the longer the utterance -responds to

> multisensory techniques...etc.

>

> ( just off the top and not in any order )

>

> Tanner's first grade class was given a " mad minute " math test where

> they were given 2 minutes to answer 29 math questions both

> subtraction and addition -stuff ranging from 7 + 7 to 11 - 4.

> Tanner is a whiz at math -I believe from the Nintendo games and

> other computer games such as that they are educational he's learned

> much like that in a fun way. But...the first time he was given the

> test he mixed up the subtraction and addition signs which he never

> does -and got even some easy math questions wrong. When he came

> home I just said to him in a really fun animated way (since this

was

> the first sign of any problem at all) " Tanner -they time you

> because we live in Florida now near the Nickelodeon Studios in

> Orlando -and just in case we go on Family Double Dare you are going

> to have to answer all these questions fast or we'll all

> get " SLIMED! " (I said wrinkling up my nose and laughing) BUT -if

> you get them all right we'll win really cool prizes! Either way

> it's just for fun! " Well the next day the test was given again to

> the class and Tanner not only got 100% but was the first one

> finished!

>

> Tanner gets 100% on spelling each week, no matter how difficult the

> spelling words are. I found the best way to teach him the words is

> to use multisensory fun ways. This is just two of them -I'll write

> the letters on his back as he says them for each word...but if he

> says the wrong letter I don't write it....play game show where we

> take turns being the contestant and game show host -jumping up and

> down etc. Either Glenn, Dakota or I are the ones who get the

> answers spelled wrong (we change our voices and pretend we are

> someone else. We'll sound out the word wrong and spell it wrong. I

> try to think of how a speech impaired child will say the word and

> spell it that way) and Tanner is always the one that is the

> contestant to spell it right. If Tanner is the game show host -one

> of us will get it right -but the first one will get it wrong.

> Tanner always laughs and has to correct us. For the one that won -

> he'll have to say what prize they won. We also do " teacher " where

> I'm the student and he teaches me the words -warns me about the

> silent letters -etc.

>

> I found that even though Tanner will spell each word right if given

> one at a time -if he has to put the words in a sentence -he broke

> down and spelled words he knows wrong. Once I told him to think of

> each word separate - " think game show " -he spells them right.

>

> When Tanner is reading long more complex words such as for example

> last night -circulatory (he's learning about blood cells now) he

> needs a cue to break it down. For example on his own last night

> when I said " Just break it down Tanner and think of it as four

> words " Tanner picked up a Jimmy Neutron Mc's toy and for each

> syllable he said -as he said it -he turned the toy's head.

>

> Sometimes his apraxia gets in the way of reading certain words at

> first. He'll read the word and say the last sound wrong -or the

> middle sound wrong. I'll correct him and point to the missed

> letter. He'll repeat the word and hesitate at the letter in

> question -visibly trying hard to say it right -but again say it

> wrong. We'll go over this a few times until I clap my hands -or

> give him some other cue to break it down. Once he says it right -

> I'll have him repeat it over and over at least three times. I'll

> then say the word about ten times over and over until he says " All

> right already! " and then we'll move on. If when we get to the word

> again he hesitates -I just have to clap or give a cue and he

> says " Oh yeah " and says it right very quickly. Then he just gets it

> on his own.

>

> Anyone else? "

>

> Lynn -as far as how do you teach a nonverbal child to read...I

would

> do all the same as above. You may want to read up on Helen Keller.

> My son was schooled in preschool in an oral based school for the

> hearing impaired/deaf. You don't have to talk to be able to read.

>

> " I knew then that 'w-a-t-e-r' meant the wonderful cool something

> that was

> flowing over my hand. That living word awakened my soul, gave it

> light, hope,

> joy, set it free! "

> Helen Keller 1880-1968

> American writer and lecturer

> http://www.theglassceiling.com/biographies/bio20.htm

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

and all,

One thing to keep in mind as we discuss reading in apraxic children

is that apraxia is an area of severe speech impairments which used

to be any or all of the following:

rare

unrecognized

misdiagnosed as something else

Apraxia is a motor planning disorder -and not limited to just speech.

If one checks the archives here you will find that unless the child

has co existing other issues such as cognitive -most of the member's

children from this group anyway were mainstreamed in the public

school. Reading is a " problem " early on in this group -but again

unlike one with a language learning impairment or dyslexia etc. the

delays appear to be developmental.

I recall when Tanner was 5 that at times he knew his letters and

another time he seemed to forget and asked his SLP Ortega

about this because it concerned me. She said (wise advice) " I would

not worry about that at this point. He may want to say P and say F

instead. Just keep reading with him and going over it " In Tanner's

case in Florida mainstream kindergarten (he stareted at 6) he was one of the top

children in his class according to his teacher. Both in the blue

ribbon school Dakota went to in NJ and in Florida -by the end of

kindergarten the child is expected to be " reading and writing

ready " Tanner's reading at a 4th grade level and he is in the

third grade -and his creative writing put him on a 5th grade level.

Yet when he speaks -he is two deviations below and we have to fight

discrimination that he isn't as bright because of the way he

communicates. Some have wanted to diagnose or label him as learning

disabled and I've fought that label and diagnosis -and proved many

wrong along the way. Thing that scares me is that I know that if I

didn't fight it -they would have been right. It's up to us guys to

give our children a chance due to the lack of awarness.

What has worked and works for my son Tanner doesn't work for all of

the children here. But from what I've seen over the years Tanner is

pretty typical of an apraxic child -and what works for him appears

to work for most.

If being diagnosed as dyslexic at 6 provides therapy that is

appropriate and benign whether the apraxic child is dyslexic or not -

then why not?

I've discussed this with various PhDs in the area of speech, and

school performance in the early and later years this also brought up

at the SSA meeting in Washington that CHERAB was asked to present

at.

The information I posted about the developmental lags in the area of

academics as well you will not find in studies just yet, but we have

overwhelming personal accounts. Tanner's not the only one. In this

group we can explore the thousands upon thousands of posts in the

archives. Or listen to the " old timers " and those who pop in here

and there who are most of the time today off doing " normal " stuff

because their child is doing so well. I just don't want to see any

more " late talker " children slip through the cracks. As Dr. Dale

said to me " you are correct in that we've done a disservice

to apraxia. We know the normal developmental stages of speech, but

we don't know what is normal for apraxia " (this was a conversation

we had in regards to stuttering when Tanner went through his

stuttering phase. PS -he no longer stutters ever)

http://www.onlineceus.com/continuingeducation/authors/williams.html

The reality is with lack of awareness -you take an apraxic child (at

6) for an evaluation of dyslexia -and unless the professionals know

about apraxia and what we are seeing in later developmental lags -

your apraxic child may also get the diagnosis of dyslexia. This is

why I say to give the child the benefit of the doubt.

While you explore the archives check under Suzi's name since she has

posted much on this as well. Or Suzi if you read this perhaps you

can jump in and confirm how well your both (apraxic) twin girls are

doing today in the California school system.

=====

[Guest guest]

Tina,

He is diagnosed with apraxia and has " mild language " issues based on

his last eval and IEP. The test they gave him for language was the

Celf and requires verbal responses - repeat sentences etc. I feel

he does have language issues with rhyming and sequencing. He can

get the site words and is reading some of the books she sends home.

But I think he memorizes the words from the site words and looks at

the pictures to figure out what the unknown word is. In our last

meeting with the teachers they said that he is in danger of not

being promoted due to his weaknesses in the area of language arts.

He does see an OT and we are going to the eye doctor tomorrow so I

will ask him about this. Is this an OT thing or optomologist?

Thanks so much for your input. We are willing to do anything

because we don't want him to fall behind.

Mia

>

> Hi Mia:

>

> Check with your childs teacher about reading. My non-apraxic

> kindergartener is required to know 50 sight words and be able to

read

> level B books to move on to first grade.

>

> Can you have him evaluated for dyslexia and other language

impairments

> to help you figure out if it is something other than apraxia?

>

> Has your child been seen by an OT? I may be way out in left

field,

> but I remember reading about visual-spatial processing skills in

The

> Out-of-Sinc Child. It says visual discrimination-differentiating

> among symbols and forms, such as matching or separating colors,

> shapes, numbers, letters, and words.

> Visual figure-ground-differentiating objects in the foreground and

> background, to distinguish one word on a page, or a face in a

crowd.

> Visual-spatial functions-understanding that objects keep their

basic

> shapes regardless of their position (form constancy); seeing the

> correct orientation of letters and objects (position in

space);judging

> distances between objects, or between ourselves and objects

(spatial

> awareness); and perceiving left and right, up and down, and front

and

> back (directionality).

>

> child with poor visual-spatial processing may:

> confuse likenesses and differences in pictures, words, symbols,

and

> objects.

> omit words or numbers and lose her place while reading and writing.

> have difficulty with schoolwork involving the size constancy of

> letters, the spacing of letters and words, and the lining up of

> numbers.

> This may not be your child at all, but thought I would give you

the

> information anyway.

> Best wishes

> Tina

>

[Guest guest]

Warning signs of dyslexia are posted on this information site on

Barton & methods:

http://www.bartonreading.com/sbarton.html

RE: [ ] Apraxia & Dyslexia link????

wow claudia, thanks so much!!!! My son is having trouble with colors, and

just starting to reconize letters/ and writing his name. he's spec ed

Kindergarten. its so ironic that you gave those things as markers to

dyslexia because those things are what exactly he has trouble with

(recepitvely) thought maybe was the apraxia... might get him tested....

who normally tests and diagonoses dyslexia? sped teacher?

thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response

chris

[Guest guest]

thanks lisa

for that reminder, but I thought of dyslexia because my husband has a cousin

who is very dyslexic and as of now ( i would love to get him tested) I think

mild MR. I think his cousin was not taught correctly how to cope with the

dyslexia. such a shame he is still living at home not good job to keep him

independent.

with tanner what age did letters and such stick (he remembered) because with

if doesn't work with something for awile he forgets like he never learned

it.

thanks

chris

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

and all,

One thing to keep in mind as we discuss reading in apraxic children

is that apraxia is an area of severe speech impairments which used

to be any or all of the following:

rare

unrecognized

misdiagnosed as something else

Apraxia is a motor planning disorder -and not limited to just speech.

If one checks the archives here you will find that unless the child

has co existing other issues such as cognitive -most of the member's

children from this group anyway were mainstreamed in the public

school. Reading is a " problem " early on in this group -but again

unlike one with a language learning impairment or dyslexia etc. the

delays appear to be developmental.

I recall when Tanner was 5 that at times he knew his letters and

another time he seemed to forget and asked his SLP Ortega

about this because it concerned me. She said (wise advice) " I would

not worry about that at this point. He may want to say P and say F

instead. Just keep reading with him and going over it " In Tanner's

case in Florida mainstream kindergarten (he stareted at 6) he was one of the top

children in his class according to his teacher. Both in the blue

ribbon school Dakota went to in NJ and in Florida -by the end of

kindergarten the child is expected to be " reading and writing

ready " Tanner's reading at a 4th grade level and he is in the

third grade -and his creative writing put him on a 5th grade level.

Yet when he speaks -he is two deviations below and we have to fight

discrimination that he isn't as bright because of the way he

communicates. Some have wanted to diagnose or label him as learning

disabled and I've fought that label and diagnosis -and proved many

wrong along the way. Thing that scares me is that I know that if I

didn't fight it -they would have been right. It's up to us guys to

give our children a chance due to the lack of awarness.

What has worked and works for my son Tanner doesn't work for all of

the children here. But from what I've seen over the years Tanner is

pretty typical of an apraxic child -and what works for him appears

to work for most.

If being diagnosed as dyslexic at 6 provides therapy that is

appropriate and benign whether the apraxic child is dyslexic or not -

then why not?

I've discussed this with various PhDs in the area of speech, and

school performance in the early and later years this also brought up

at the SSA meeting in Washington that CHERAB was asked to present

at.

The information I posted about the developmental lags in the area of

academics as well you will not find in studies just yet, but we have

overwhelming personal accounts. Tanner's not the only one. In this

group we can explore the thousands upon thousands of posts in the

archives. Or listen to the " old timers " and those who pop in here

and there who are most of the time today off doing " normal " stuff

because their child is doing so well. I just don't want to see any

more " late talker " children slip through the cracks. As Dr. Dale

said to me " you are correct in that we've done a disservice

to apraxia. We know the normal developmental stages of speech, but

we don't know what is normal for apraxia " (this was a conversation

we had in regards to stuttering when Tanner went through his

stuttering phase. PS -he no longer stutters ever)

http://www.onlineceus.com/continuingeducation/authors/williams.html

The reality is with lack of awareness -you take an apraxic child (at

6) for an evaluation of dyslexia -and unless the professionals know

about apraxia and what we are seeing in later developmental lags -

your apraxic child may also get the diagnosis of dyslexia. This is

why I say to give the child the benefit of the doubt.

While you explore the archives check under Suzi's name since she has

posted much on this as well. Or Suzi if you read this perhaps you

can jump in and confirm how well your both (apraxic) twin girls are

doing today in the California school system.

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