Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Dumb question here. In paramedic class, when we learned IVs, we were taught a very specific way to clean the IV site with an alcohol pad. We were told to wipe in a circular, inwards motion, then to finally wipe down. It was implied that this is THE way to cleanse an IV site. Does anyone know if/why this the acceptable way? Call me an idiot, but I can't see how a specific motion produces better results for infection control. -Wes Ogilvie Austin, Texas ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Wes, I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out in a circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of entry. Hope this helps. Forey RN, EMT-P ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 , And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from the injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > Wes, > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > in a > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > entry. > > > Hope this helps. > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Just for conversation::::: The skin should be cleaned before insertion using an antiseptic agent to kill or inhibit growth of microorganisms. Popular antiseptics include: 70% ALCOHOL ADVANTAGES DISADVANTAGES Fast kill Not effective against spores Very effective against gram-negative Must rub the site vigorously for and gram-positive bacteria at least one minute Effective fat solvent Drying nature of alcohol. 2% TINCTURE OF IODINE ADVANTAGES DISADVANTAGES Effective against the same May cause skin irritation organisms as 70% alcohol Prolonged contact may even kill Must be removed from skin certain fungi and spores before catheter is placed 10% POVIDONE-IODINE (IODINE SOLUTION) ADVANTAGES DISADVANTAGES Reduced toxicity Contact time of 2 minutes necessary for optimal microbial kill Less skin irritation than Neutralized in presence of blood iodine tincture and pus CHLORHEXIDINE ADVANTAGES DISADVANTAGES Active against gram-positive and Can be inactivated by compounds gram-negative organisms and viruses found in hard water and soap Residual activity up to 6 hours Allergic reactions reported FROM: Marsha Halfman, RN, MSN Critical Care Consultant sdale, AZ QUICK GUIDE TO Central Venous Access Reiner, RN, BSN, CIC Infection Control Coordinator Northwestern Memorial Hospital Chicago, IL wegandy1938@... wrote: , And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from the injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > Wes, > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > in a > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > entry. > > > Hope this helps. > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 this has an excellent chart with it; I know it is dealing with a hygene issue but there are some interesting conlcusions that can be drawn..... http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/journal/issues/v31n1/000142/000142.web.pdf wegandy1938@... wrote: , And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from the injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > Wes, > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > in a > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > entry. > > > Hope this helps. > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Come on Gene not everything people do in life or medicine has to be because we researched it. Common sense would dictate that if you attempt to clean the area it would be better than not. I have always prepped the IV site this way, at least for the last 34 years. I am sure cleaning the site is an off shoot from the early years in medicine where someone came up with the idea that washing your hands would be a good idea before doing surgery. If we had had a study, I bet Chamin tissues would not be doing as well today. Henry Re: IV question , And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from the injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > Wes, > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > in a > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > entry. > > > Hope this helps. > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 In a message dated 9/20/2007 9:35:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hbarber@... writes: Common sense would dictate Henry why do you insist on bringing up common sense all the time? I mean it's EMS for crying out loud where do you see common sense applied? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS) Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) (Home Phone) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Because I get so little enjoyment other than fishing. So I pick on my friends, I pick on my non friends and I pick my nose a lot. Just seems like the thing to do at the time. Henry Re: IV question In a message dated 9/20/2007 9:35:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hbarber@... writes: Common sense would dictate Henry why do you insist on bringing up common sense all the time? I mean it's EMS for crying out loud where do you see common sense applied? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS) Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) (Home Phone) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Would one of the microbiologst in the crowd respond help poor Gene with this one. Gene if its good enough for rodent, do you think its good enough for people? AAALAC Connection 16 From AAALAC's perspective Alcohol as a disinfectant We've heard from many people who have questions about the appropriateness and effectiveness of using alcohol as a skin and sole surgical instrument disinfectant in rodent survival surgery. For some institutions, part of the confusion stems from a sentence in the Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals (NRC 1996, p. 62) that says, " Alcohol is neither a sterilant nor a high-level disinfectant. " No further specifics are offered. To help clarify this statement and answer questions about the use of alcohol in rodent surgery, AAALAC's Council on Accreditation formed a subcommittee to research and address this issue. Chaired by Herod L. , D.V.M., M.P.V.M, director of the Animal Resources Center for the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, the committee also included J.R. Haywood, Ph.D., professor of pharmacology at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San , and Kathy Laber, D.V.M., M.S., director of the Animal Resource Center of the Medical University of South Carolina. Their findings and recommendations are discussed below.e've heard from many people who have questions about the appropriateness and effectiveness of using alcohol as a skin and sole surgical instrument disinfectant in rodent survival surgery. For some institutions, part of the confusion stems from a sentence in the Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals (NRC 1996, p. 62) that says, " Alcohol is neither a sterilant nor a high-level disinfectant. " No further specifics are offered. To help clarify this statement and answer questions about the use of alcohol in rodent surgery, AAALAC's Council on Accreditation formed a subcommittee to research and address this issue. Chaired by Herod L. , D.V.M., M.P.V.M, director of the Animal Resources Center for the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, the committee also included J.R. Haywood, Ph.D., professor of pharmacology at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San , and Kathy Laber, D.V.M., M.S., director of the Animal Resource Center of the Medical University of South Carolina. Their findings and recommendations are discussed below.Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals (NRC 1996, p. 62) that says, " Alcohol is neither a sterilant nor a high-level disinfectant. " No further specifics are offered. To help clarify this statement and answer questions about the use of alcohol in rodent surgery, AAALAC's Council on Accreditation formed a subcommittee to research and address this issue. Chaired by Herod L. , D.V.M., M.P.V.M, director of the Animal Resources Center for the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, the committee also included J.R. Haywood, Ph.D., professor of pharmacology at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San , and Kathy Laber, D.V.M., M.S., director of the Animal Resource Center of the Medical University of South Carolina. Their findings and recommendations are discussed below.(NRC 1996, p. 62) that says, " Alcohol is neither a sterilant nor a high-level disinfectant. " No further specifics are offered. To help clarify this statement and answer questions about the use of alcohol in rodent surgery, AAALAC's Council on Accreditation formed a subcommittee to research and address this issue. Chaired by Herod L. , D.V.M., M.P.V.M, director of the Animal Resources Center for the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, the committee also included J.R. Haywood, Ph.D., professor of pharmacology at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San , and Kathy Laber, D.V.M., M.S., director of the Animal Resource Center of the Medical University of South Carolina. Their findings and recommendations are discussed below. Alcohol as a skin disinfectant The goal prior to surgery is to rapidly kill bacteria at the site of the planned incision. Alcohols are wellsuited for this. After application, their antibacterial effects result in falling bacterial counts that can last up to several hours. The committee noted several sources that support the use of alcohol as a skin disinfectant: 4 Research has shown that a one minute alcohol immersion or scrub is as effective as a four- to seven-minute scrub with Chlorhexidine or Iodophors.Research has shown that a oneminute alcohol immersion or scrub is as effective as a four- to seven-minute scrub with Chlorhexidine or Iodophors. 4 An article by Cunliffe-Beamer cited in the Guide supports alcohol for rodent skin disinfection prior to surgery.An article by Cunliffe-Beamer cited in the Guide supports alcohol for rodent skin disinfection prior to surgery.Guide supports alcohol for rodent skin disinfection prior to surgery. 4 The World Health Organization has designated alcohol " the gold standard against which all other skin disinfectants should be measured. " The World Health Organization has designated alcohol " the gold standard against which all other skin disinfectants should be measured. " For these reasons, the Council accepts alcohol as a skin disinfectant for rodent survival surgery.or these reasons, the Council accepts alcohol as a skin disinfectant for rodent survival surgery. Instrument sterilization Prior to surgery, instruments should be rid of all forms of microorganisms to prevent postoperative wound infections. But this is sometimes difficult due to the grooves on instruments that can trap proteinrich material. According to APIC (Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology), ethyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol are not effective in sterilizing instruments because they lack sporicidal activity and can't penetrate protein-rich materials. Isopropyl alcohol also lacks the ability to kill hydrophilic viruses. For these reasons, alcohol is classified as an intermediate level disinfectant. Most investigators have access to autoclaves, gas sterilizers, hot beads, flames, chemicals or boiling water which can be used to properly sterilize the equipment. The GuideGuide sets the standard for aseptic technique which includes sterilizing instruments and appropriately trained personnel. In the Council's view, departure from GuideGuide recommendations places an additional responsibility on the IACUC to provide appropriate scientific justification, performance data, and/or monitoring to support alternative practices. For these reasons, the Council cannot accept blanket use of alcohol for surgical instrument preparation.or these reasons, the Council cannot accept blanket use of alcohol for surgical instrument preparation. The IACUC must evaluate the use of alcohol on a case-by-case basis, look at all the variables, include a review of relevant literature, and implement ongoing monitoring procedures. In sum, they must justify the use of alcohol as the sole surgical instrument disinfectant from both scientific and animal welfare perspectives. qq Miles > > > > > > > Come on Gene not everything people do in life or medicine has to be because we researched it. Common sense would dictate that if you attempt to clean the area it would be better than not. > > I have always prepped the IV site this way, at least for the last 34 years. I am sure cleaning the site is an off shoot from the early years in medicine where someone came up with the idea that washing your hands would be a good idea before doing surgery. > > If we had had a study, I bet Chamin tissues would not be doing as well today. > > Henry > Re: IV question > > , > > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from the > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > > > > > Wes, > > > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > > in a > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > > entry. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********http://www.aol.htt > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out that there seems to be no scientific evidence that the technique we use does anything other than clean the skin. Matter of fact, I believe I read recently of a study that showed that holding one's hands under running water for 20 seconds does a better job of disinfecting than popular disinfectant soaps. I was really taking a teeny swipe at the nursey types who go nuts over little things like whether you wipe in a circle or back and forth. Remember when you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you failed? Gene > > Come on Gene not everything people do in life or medicine has to be because > we researched it. Common sense would dictate that if you attempt to clean the > area it would be better than not. > > I have always prepped the IV site this way, at least for the last 34 years. > I am sure cleaning the site is an off shoot from the early years in medicine > where someone came up with the idea that washing your hands would be a good > idea before doing surgery. > > If we had had a study, I bet Chamin tissues would not be doing as well > today. > > Henry > Re: IV question > > , > > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from > the > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > > > > > Wes, > > > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > > in a > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > > entry. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********http://www.aol.htt > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Gene, I am working with our infecion control team at my hospital to see if they can find some case studies.? I will pass them on to you once i get them. Re: IV question Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out that there seems to be no scientific evidence that the technique we use does anything other than clean the skin. Matter of fact, I believe I read recently of a study that showed that holding one's hands under running water for 20 seconds does a better job of disinfecting than popular disinfectant soaps. I was really taking a teeny swipe at the nursey types who go nuts over little things like whether you wipe in a circle or back and forth. Remember when you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you failed? Gene > > Come on Gene not everything people do in life or medicine has to be because > we researched it. Common sense would dictate that if you attempt to clean the > area it would be better than not. > > I have always prepped the IV site this way, at least for the last 34 years. > I am sure cleaning the site is an off shoot from the early years in medicine > where someone came up with the idea that washing your hands would be a good > idea before doing surgery. > > If we had had a study, I bet Chamin tissues would not be doing as well > today. > > Henry > Re: IV question > > , > > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from > the > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > > > > > Wes, > > > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > > in a > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > > entry. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********http://www.aol.htt > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Remember when you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you failed? Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it for a dress or bonnet. Henry Re: IV question > > , > > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove through > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from > the > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > > > > > Wes, > > > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working out > > in a > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site of > > entry. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********http://www.aol.htt > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Henry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints. But who remembers that but you and me? GG > > Remember when > you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to > proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed? > > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when > we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet. > > Henry > Re: IV question > > > > , > > > > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through > > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from > > the > > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it. > > > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > > > > > > > > > Wes, > > > > > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you > > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out > > > in a > > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce > > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these > > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of > > > entry. > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Forey RN, EMT-P > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>******** > http://www.aol.htt > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. Does that count???? LOL Jane Hill To: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 -0400Subject: Re: IV question Henry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when > we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> ----- Original Message -----> From: wegandy1938@wegandy> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:59 PM> Subject: Re: IV question> > Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out that there seems to be no scientific> evidence that the technique we use does anything other than clean the skin.> > Matter of fact, I believe I read recently of a study that showed that > holding> one's hands under running water for 20 seconds does a better job of> disinfecting than popular disinfectant soaps.> > I was really taking a teeny swipe at the nursey types who go nuts over > little> things like whether you wipe in a circle or back and forth. Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Gene> > > >> > Come on Gene not everything people do in life or medicine has to be > because> > we researched it. Common sense would dictate that if you attempt to clean > the> > area it would be better than not.> >> > I have always prepped the IV site this way, at least for the last 34 > years.> > I am sure cleaning the site is an off shoot from the early years in > medicine> > where someone came up with the idea that washing your hands would be a > good> > idea before doing surgery.> >> > If we had had a study, I bet Chamin tissues would not be doing as well> > today.> >> > Henry> > Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > > >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > >> > >> > >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> > See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: > 9/19/2007> > 3:59 PM> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >> >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.27/1020 - Release Date: 9/20/2007 > 12:07 PM> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 Jane lets not show our age!! Stan Jane Hill wrote: I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. Does that count???? LOL Jane Hill To: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 -0400Subject: Re: IV question Henry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when > we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> ----- Original Message -----> From: wegandy1938@wegandy> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:59 PM> Subject: Re: IV question> > Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out that there seems to be no scientific> evidence that the technique we use does anything other than clean the skin.> > Matter of fact, I believe I read recently of a study that showed that > holding> one's hands under running water for 20 seconds does a better job of> disinfecting than popular disinfectant soaps.> > I was really taking a teeny swipe at the nursey types who go nuts over > little> things like whether you wipe in a circle or back and forth. Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Gene> > > >> > Come on Gene not everything people do in life or medicine has to be > because> > we researched it. Common sense would dictate that if you attempt to clean > the> > area it would be better than not.> >> > I have always prepped the IV site this way, at least for the last 34 > years.> > I am sure cleaning the site is an off shoot from the early years in > medicine> > where someone came up with the idea that washing your hands would be a > good> > idea before doing surgery.> >> > If we had had a study, I bet Chamin tissues would not be doing as well> > today.> >> > Henry> > Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 PM, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > >> > >> > >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> > See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: > 9/19/2007> > 3:59 PM> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >> >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.27/1020 - Release Date: 9/20/2007 > 12:07 PM> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 You trying to say I'm OLD, Stan????? LOL Jane To: texasems-l@...: radmedic2001@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:42:54 -0700Subject: RE: IV question Jane lets not show our age!!StanJane Hill wrote:I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. Does that count???? LOLJane HillTo: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 -0400Subject: Re: IV questionHenry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when > we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 PM, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Did I say that!?!?!?!??!? Jane Hill wrote: You trying to say I'm OLD, Stan????? LOL Jane To: texasems-l@...: radmedic2001@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:42:54 -0700Subject: RE: IV question Jane lets not show our age!!StanJane Hill wrote:I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. Does that count???? LOLJane HillTo: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 -0400Subject: Re: IV questionHenry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when > we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > > >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > >> > >> > >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> > See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: > 9/19/2007> > 3:59 PM> >> > [Non-text portions of this message havebeen removed]> >> >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.27/1020 - Release Date: 9/20/2007 > 12:07 PM> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's not showing age - only resourcefulness and creativity! Kathy Birdwell, LP --- Awsome Medic wrote: > Jane lets not show our age!! > Stan > > Jane Hill wrote: > > I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. > Does that count???? LOL > > Jane Hill > > > To: texasems-l@...: > wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 > -0400Subject: Re: IV question > > > > > Henry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I > walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth > uphill each way to school, every day, even in the > summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, > milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we > had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, > and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as > splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a > message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, > hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you > and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage > from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, > et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags > to use that we got when > we went to town on > Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't > use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> ----- > Original Message -----> From: wegandy1938@wegandy> > To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem> Sent: Thursday, > September 20, 2007 6:59 PM> Subject: Re: > IV question> > Oh, I agree. I was just > pointing out that there seems to be no scientific> > evidence that the technique we use does anything > other than clean the skin.> > Matter of fact, I > believe I read recently of a study that showed that > > holding> one's hands under running water for 20 > seconds does a better job of> disinfecting than > popular disinfectant soaps.> > I was really taking a > teeny swipe at the nursey types who go nuts over > > little> things like whether you wipe in a circle or > back and forth. Remember when> you and I passed our > skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> > proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if > you didn't do that you > failed?> > Gene> In a > message dated 9/20/07 6:36:00 AM, > hbarber@... writes:> > >> > Come on Gene > not everything people do in life or medicine has to > be > because> > we researched it. Common sense would > dictate that if you attempt to clean > the> > area > it would be better than not.> >> > I > have always prepped the IV site this way, at least > for the last 34 > years.> > I am sure cleaning the > site is an off shoot from the early years in > > medicine> > where someone came up with the idea that > washing your hands would be a > good> > idea before > doing surgery.> >> > If we had had a study, I bet > Chamin tissues would not be doing as well> > today.> > >> > Henry> > Re: IV question> >> > ,> > >> > And you base your statement on exactly what > research? Can you prove > through> > scientific > studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria > away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I > would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In > a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 PM, > txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was > the same way that you> > > > mentioned, and the second way was starting from the > inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular > motion. The reason behind both of these techniques > is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the > invasive site. If you do either of these> > > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then > away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > > >> > > ************ ******** ******** > ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed]> > >> > >> > >> >> > ************ ******** > ******** *******> > See what's new at > http://www.aol.htt> >> > [Non-text portions of this > message have been removed]> >> > ------------ > -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> >> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked > by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus > Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: > > 9/19/2007> > 3:59 PM> >> > [Non-text portions of > this message have > been removed]> >> >> >> > ************ ******** > ******** *******> See what's new at > http://www.aol.htt> > [Non-text portions of this > message have been removed]> > ------------ -------- > -------- -------- -------- --------> > No virus > found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free > Edition.> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: > 269.13.27/1020 - Release Date: 9/20/2007 > 12:07 PM> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed]> > > > **************************************See what's new > at http://www.aol.com[Non-text portions of this > message have been removed] > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an > exclusive offer. It’s our way of saying thanks for > using Windows Live™. > http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 No he is just saying you are talented, educated and experienced. Henry Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 PM, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > >> > >> > >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> > See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >> > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: > 9/19/2007> > 3:59 PM> >> > [Non-text portions of this message havebeen removed]> >> >> >> > ************ ******** ******** *******> See what's new at http://www.aol.htt> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 No but you're a man, I'm a woman. I can twist anything you say around to something derogatory. LOLOL Jane To: texasems-l@...: radmedic2001@...: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:41:26 -0700Subject: RE: IV question Did I say that!?!?!?!??!?Jane Hill wrote: You trying to say I'm OLD, Stan????? LOLJaneTo: texasems-l@...: radmedic2001@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:42:54 -0700Subject: RE: IV questionJane lets not show our age!!StanJane Hill wrote:I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. Does that count???? LOLJane HillTo: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 -0400Subject: Re: IV questionHenry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when> we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> >injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 PM, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Jane -- That ability to twist words into something derogatory also extends to attorneys, Al Sharpton, and . I'm not sure that women want to be lumped in with those " winners. "  LOL -Wes Re: IV questionHenry, yer a hoot! Now you now that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill ach way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, athering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only eed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled ife Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message ated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a /4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I emember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when> we went o town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a ress or bonnet.> > Henry> Re: IV uestion> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what esearch? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the echniques moves bacteria away from> > the> >injection site? If you can, I would ike to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 M, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two ifferent ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the econd way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > ircular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > he amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > echniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > ntry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > *********** ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 That's a real delicate way of saying OLD, Henry. LOL Jane To: texasems-l@...: hbarber@...: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:52:40 -0500Subject: Re: IV question No he is just saying you are talented, educated and experienced.Henry----- Original Message ----- To: <texasems-l >Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:37 PMSubject: RE: IV questionYou trying to say I'm OLD, Stan????? LOLJaneTo: texasems-l@...: radmedic2001@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:42:54 -0700Subject: RE: IV questionJane lets not show our age!!StanJane Hill wrote:I used rolled up brown paper bags as splints once. Does that count???? LOLJane HillTo: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 04:17:10 -0400Subject: Re: IV questionHenry, yer a hoot! Now you know that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill each way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, gathering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only feed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled Life Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message dated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and I passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a 1/4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I remember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when > we went to town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a dress or bonnet.> > Henry> Re: IV question> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what research? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the techniques moves bacteria away from> > the> > injection site? If you can, I would like to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 PM, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two different ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the second way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > circular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > the amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > techniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > entry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > ************ ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Oh now THAT was just WROOOOOONNNNNNNGGGG, Wes!!!!! LOL Jane To: texasems-l@...: ExLngHrn@...: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:26:25 -0400Subject: Re: IV question Jane -- That ability to twist words into something derogatory also extends to attorneys, Al Sharpton, and . I'm not sure that women want to be lumped in with those " winners. " LOL-Wes Re: IV questionHenry, yer a hoot! Now you now that you and I walked 6 miles barefoot in the snow back and forth uphill ach way to school, every day, even in the summer, after slopping the hogs, athering the eggs, milkin the cows, and feedin the horses. And yes we had only eed bags to use as bandages and poultices, and we often used twigs and rolled ife Magazines as splints.But who remembers that but you and me?GGIn a message ated 9/21/07 5:35:19 AM, hbarber@... writes:> > Remember when> you and passed our skills test and you had to bandage from distal to> proximal, with a /4 inch overlap, et cetera and if you didn't do that you > failed?> > Yup I emember and we only had flower and meal bags to use that we got when> we went o town on Saturday to get our vitttals.That is if MA didn't use it > for a ress or bonnet.> > Henry> Re: IV uestion> >> > ,> >> > And you base your statement on exactly what esearch? Can you prove > through> > scientific studies that either of the echniques moves bacteria away from> > the> >injection site? If you can, I would ike to see it.> >> > Gene Gandy, JD, LP> > In a message dated 9/18/07 10:23:10 M, txguy001@... writes:> >> > >> > > Wes,> > >> > > I was taught two ifferent ways. The first way was the same way that you> > >mentioned, and the econd way was starting from the inside and working > out> > > in a> > > ircular motion. The reason behind both of these techniques is to reduce> > > he amount of bacteria at the invasive site. If you do either of these> > > echniques, it reduces the bacteria and moves then away from your site > of> > > ntry.> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps.> > >> > > Forey RN, EMT-P> > >> > > *********** ******** ******** ********************> http://www.aol.htt> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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