Need advice/opinions please.....

[Guest guest]

, and anyone who has an opinion,

I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my adrenals checked.

I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could get by starting

Armour without any additional adrenal support. I posted on a

different site last night and was told I needed to start

hydrocortisone because with my test results I wouldn't do well on

Armour unless I did. These are my test results (sorry for posting

them again):

7-8am 11 depressed 13-24

11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10

4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8

11-midnight 3 normal 1-4

cortisol burden 27 range 23-42

DHEA 5 normal range 3-10

I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors visit we didn't

discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be bought with a script

and I'm not sure my doctor would do that.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Its

a judgement call.

You're numbers aren't too far off... so you are in the 'mild' category,

IMHO.

Hydrocortisone.. has side affects.. as in if you do it wrong you can do

more harm than good.

A lot of folks use cortisol.

I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens to be OTC, no

prescription required and doesn't have the 'shut down factor' of

hydrocortisone.

Here is what it boils down to.

Adding an adrenal support/supplement makes it easier for your body to

handle the increase in thyroid hormone. How much of an affect it will

have depends on a few different things.

How hypo (how low are your actual thyroid hormones) are you?

How long have you been hypo?

How severe is your level of adrenal fatigue?

How much thyroid hormone replacement are you starting on (doesn't matter

if it's Armour (natural) or synthetic (like Synthroid)?

It's suggested (even on many of the thyroid hormone bottle inserts) that

adrenal function be tested before started on thyroid hormone replacement.

Is that a good idea, yes. Again, depending on how severe your adrenal

insufficiency is it can have a pretty significant impact.

Is it better to do this under the supervision of a doctor? YES, if he

knows what he's doing.

Can you start thyroid hormone without adrenal support? Yes, if the

adrenal function isn't too bad you just take the thyroid hormone

adjustments in reasonable amounts (1/4 to 1/2 for natural.. 25 mcg to 50

mcg for synthetic T4 --- the higher the dose the smaller the increments

should be). You'll also do better, in the long run, leaving enough time

between adjustments in thyroid hormone to allow your body to adjust, and

that includes allowing the adrenals to become accustomed as well. That

ends up being 4 to 6 weeks, with 6 weeks being better for your body in

the long run.. for some, like me, I'm sensitive to adjustments and the

higher my dosage gets, the closer to optimal it gets, the longer period

of time I need between adjustments... When I'm in the 3 1/2 grain per day

and over range I do better with 12 weeks between adjustments.

Is it frustrating giving your body extra time? DUH, Yeah.... is it worth

doing things in a way that reduces the stress to you body and allows it

to readjust things and get back to a healthy level of function... DUH..

yeah...

So it ends up being YOUR decision. You have to decide what you are more

comfortable with. You're the one that has to sit down with your doc and

discuss adding the extra support, or opt to self treat.

You're the one that knows how you feel, how your body does, or does not,

tolerate the adjustments.

You're the one that lives your life and is able to judge the impact all

this stuff is having on your life.

Lots of folks get really adamant about how you HAVE to do it this way or

that. I have my own strong opinions on stuff as well..... but it's not

for any of us to TELL you what to do.. or put it in an 'or else'

scenario'.

Am I glad that I went on adrenal support.. oh yeah.. .a thousand times

yes.... but I did it wrong, for me, when I first started. Scared the

dickens out of myself, learned a valuable lesson. I'll give the short

version of this story, cuz what I just said sounds a lot scarier that it

should. I started with the OTC glandular adrenal. I was smart and split

the tabs in half, to be starting out slow. That was good. Oh my gosh, I

felt wonderful on them. I'd been on thyroid hormone, for a few months,

after being without for nearly three years, and I just can't describe how

much better I felt. I was able to do things, I WANTED to do things, and I

did them. I was doing chores around the house I was working on long put

off projects. I was working extra fun stuff.. just a busy little bee

compared to how I'd been for a long, long time. One day I was walking

down the hall and fell down. My legs just kinda gave out. I got myself up

and kept on heading for the bathroom, I'd just gotten out of bed... and

fell again. Got myself up, finished the nature run.. seemed to be okay.

Later that day I was peeling apples or potatoes, don't remember which,

anyway, my hands cramped up, like claws, and locked... took forever

(maybe a half hour) for them to relax and be able to move them again.

This falling and cramping when on intermittently for about a week. Then

one night I was having a bear of a time staying on my feet... that's when

I got scared. That was the night I got online to find a support group.

Found one, laid out my symptoms. The gals all confabbed and came up with

a theory. The adrenal supplement on top of the thyroid hormone was

exactly what I needed, but, I felt too good, too fast and didn't pace

myself. My body couldn't keep up with what I wanted to do. So the only

way it had to slow me down was to fall me down, or lock up my hands to

make me stop.

I stopped the adrenal AND SLOWED MY BUTT DOWN. Basically took a month of

R&R to recover from what amounted to muscle fatigue and exhaustion.

Then I was fine. Started back up on a quarter tab of the adrenal. Learned

to pace myself and allow my body to gain some strength and endurance.

It was during the one month hiatus that and I (who met that night I

was online looking for help) became friends and started this group. (

lookin up at the sky, waving... Hey Pard! )

How any of this, low thyroid (or no) thyroid function, and low adrenal

function affects us is very individual. There is no pat answer for

everyone.

Do you have to make a decision today, this week? I don't think so. IMHO.

Your numbers aren't grossly off. You aren't so incapacitated as to be

flat on your back or anything like that, so your body isn't showing that

it's grasping at straws just trying to stay alive.

You have some time to study, ask questions, observe how your body is

responding... think...

You seem to have good common sense. Someone said something to you that

didn't 'feel right' and you asked around, here.. you're smart enough to

be able to make an educated choice without being pushed into something

blindly.

Well, that's my thoughts....

Topper ()

On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:46:33 -0000 " freckly3321 " Freckly2@...>

writes:

> , and anyone who has an opinion,

>

> I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my adrenals checked.

>

> I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could get by starting

> Armour without any additional adrenal support. I posted on a

> different site last night and was told I needed to start

> hydrocortisone because with my test results I wouldn't do well on

> Armour unless I did. These are my test results (sorry for posting

> them again):

>

> 7-8am 11 depressed 13-24

> 11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10

> 4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8

> 11-midnight 3 normal 1-4

>

> cortisol burden 27 range 23-42

> DHEA 5 normal range 3-10

>

> I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors visit we didn't

> discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be bought with a

> script and I'm not sure my doctor would do that.

>

> Lori

[Guest guest]

Freck;

WITHOUT getting too complicated, I think its important

to realize that for one thing these adrenal testing is

not really any more accurate than thyroid testing in

some peoples minds. This means from this standpoint,

its got value, but only a limited value.

Some people swear by it and will get you all worried

about it.

So...how valuable is it really? Well, no one really

knows, but its best to view it as a moderately helpful

guideline. See?

Okay, so where does that leave you? Lets just

say...that you do have a dysrythym there. It will be

important for you to watch if your sleep cycle gets

wonky or if you get " overcharged " while taking Armour.

You want to try and avoid those things. Yes?

So....to help " cushion " your adrenals...there are a

couple things you can try without asking for hydro.

You can get some isocort or adreset on line. They are

just OTC supplements. No big deal. Some folks like

pregnenalone, or DHEA...or they like licorice. It may

take some hunting around for what agrees with you.

You could start taking some more vitamin C and and

then after a couple weeks start taking your Armour,

working your way up from small dose to larger

replacement.

Good luck!

~E:)

--- freckly3321 Freckly2@...> wrote:

> , and anyone who has an opinion,

>

> I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my

> adrenals checked.

> I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could

> get by starting

> Armour without any additional adrenal support. I

> posted on a

> different site last night and was told I needed to

> start

> hydrocortisone because with my test results I

> wouldn't do well on

> Armour unless I did. These are my test results

> (sorry for posting

> them again):

>

> 7-8am 11 depressed 13-24

> 11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10

> 4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8

> 11-midnight 3 normal 1-4

>

> cortisol burden 27 range 23-42

> DHEA 5 normal range 3-10

>

> I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors

> visit we didn't

> discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be

> bought with a script

> and I'm not sure my doctor would do that.

>

> Lori

>

>

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you, you always make so much sense! You have a unique and smart way of looking at things.

To be honest.....I really don't want to jump right into hydrocortisone. I feel like I have "room" to try other things first. I think I'd like to try something OTC. I am going to start on a 1/2 grain of Armour splitting it into 2 doses. Then go for tests in 6 weeks. So I will be taking that adjustment VERY slow. Can you give me an idea of where to purchase the OTC glandular for adrenals?

~E:),

Thanks for all the suggestions! I will try something different first and see what works best for me. I feel so much better since reading yours and 's posts.

Lori

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

Itsa judgement call.You're numbers aren't too far off... so you are in the 'mild' category,IMHO.Hydrocortisone.. has side affects.. as in if you do it wrong you can domore harm than good.A lot of folks use cortisol.I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens to be OTC, noprescription required and doesn't have the 'shut down factor' ofhydrocortisone.Here is what it boils down to.Adding an adrenal support/supplement makes it easier for your body tohandle the increase in thyroid hormone. How much of an affect it willhave depends on a few different things.How hypo (how low are your actual thyroid hormones) are you?How long have you been hypo?How severe is your level of adrenal fatigue?How much thyroid hormone replacement are you starting on (doesn't matterif it's Armour (natural) or synthetic (like Synthroid)?It's suggested (even on many of the thyroid hormone bottle inserts) thatadrenal function be tested before started on thyroid hormone replacement.Is that a good idea, yes. Again, depending on how severe your adrenalinsufficiency is it can have a pretty significant impact.Is it better to do this under the supervision of a doctor? YES, if heknows what he's doing.Can you start thyroid hormone without adrenal support? Yes, if theadrenal function isn't too bad you just take the thyroid hormoneadjustments in reasonable amounts (1/4 to 1/2 for natural.. 25 mcg to 50mcg for synthetic T4 --- the higher the dose the smaller the incrementsshould be). You'll also do better, in the long run, leaving enough timebetween adjustments in thyroid hormone to allow your body to adjust, andthat includes allowing the adrenals to become accustomed as well. Thatends up being 4 to 6 weeks, with 6 weeks being better for your body inthe long run.. for some, like me, I'm sensitive to adjustments and thehigher my dosage gets, the closer to optimal it gets, the longer periodof time I need between adjustments... When I'm in the 3 1/2 grain per dayand over range I do better with 12 weeks between adjustments.Is it frustrating giving your body extra time? DUH, Yeah.... is it worthdoing things in a way that reduces the stress to you body and allows itto readjust things and get back to a healthy level of function... DUH..yeah... So it ends up being YOUR decision. You have to decide what you are morecomfortable with. You're the one that has to sit down with your doc anddiscuss adding the extra support, or opt to self treat.You're the one that knows how you feel, how your body does, or does not,tolerate the adjustments.You're the one that lives your life and is able to judge the impact allthis stuff is having on your life.Lots of folks get really adamant about how you HAVE to do it this way orthat. I have my own strong opinions on stuff as well..... but it's notfor any of us to TELL you what to do.. or put it in an 'or else'scenario'.Am I glad that I went on adrenal support.. oh yeah.. .a thousand timesyes.... but I did it wrong, for me, when I first started. Scared thedickens out of myself, learned a valuable lesson. I'll give the shortversion of this story, cuz what I just said sounds a lot scarier that itshould. I started with the OTC glandular adrenal. I was smart and splitthe tabs in half, to be starting out slow. That was good. Oh my gosh, Ifelt wonderful on them. I'd been on thyroid hormone, for a few months,after being without for nearly three years, and I just can't describe howmuch better I felt. I was able to do things, I WANTED to do things, and Idid them. I was doing chores around the house I was working on long putoff projects. I was working extra fun stuff.. just a busy little beecompared to how I'd been for a long, long time. One day I was walkingdown the hall and fell down. My legs just kinda gave out. I got myself upand kept on heading for the bathroom, I'd just gotten out of bed... andfell again. Got myself up, finished the nature run.. seemed to be okay.Later that day I was peeling apples or potatoes, don't remember which,anyway, my hands cramped up, like claws, and locked... took forever(maybe a half hour) for them to relax and be able to move them again.This falling and cramping when on intermittently for about a week. Thenone night I was having a bear of a time staying on my feet... that's whenI got scared. That was the night I got online to find a support group.Found one, laid out my symptoms. The gals all confabbed and came up witha theory. The adrenal supplement on top of the thyroid hormone wasexactly what I needed, but, I felt too good, too fast and didn't pacemyself. My body couldn't keep up with what I wanted to do. So the onlyway it had to slow me down was to fall me down, or lock up my hands tomake me stop. I stopped the adrenal AND SLOWED MY BUTT DOWN. Basically took a month ofR & R to recover from what amounted to muscle fatigue and exhaustion.Then I was fine. Started back up on a quarter tab of the adrenal. Learnedto pace myself and allow my body to gain some strength and endurance.It was during the one month hiatus that and I (who met that night Iwas online looking for help) became friends and started this group. (lookin up at the sky, waving... Hey Pard! )How any of this, low thyroid (or no) thyroid function, and low adrenalfunction affects us is very individual. There is no pat answer foreveryone.Do you have to make a decision today, this week? I don't think so. IMHO.Your numbers aren't grossly off. You aren't so incapacitated as to beflat on your back or anything like that, so your body isn't showing thatit's grasping at straws just trying to stay alive.You have some time to study, ask questions, observe how your body isresponding... think...You seem to have good common sense. Someone said something to you thatdidn't 'feel right' and you asked around, here.. you're smart enough tobe able to make an educated choice without being pushed into somethingblindly.Well, that's my thoughts.... Topper ()On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:46:33 -0000 "freckly3321" <Freckly2 (AT) >writes:> , and anyone who has an opinion,> > I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my adrenals checked. > > I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could get by starting > Armour without any additional adrenal support. I posted on a > different site last night and was told I needed to start > hydrocortisone because with my test results I wouldn't do well on > Armour unless I did. These are my test results (sorry for posting > them again):> > 7-8am 11 depressed 13-24> 11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10> 4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8> 11-midnight 3 normal 1-4> > cortisol burden 27 range 23-42> DHEA 5 normal range 3-10> > I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors visit we didn't > discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be bought with a > script and I'm not sure my doctor would do that. > > Lori

[Guest guest]

Lori, Some of the discussions in this forum caught my eye on google as

I looked up the dessicated adrenal term. Of interest to me was the

Grapefruit and Licorice root mentioned here in the same website and

recently being a topic I have seen discussed on another listserve and

of importance to me but cannot recall the exact discussion or ever

hearing of any replies connecting grapefruit or licorice to the

adrenals on that listserve.

You might want to browse the few selected discussions from this forum

that might relate to the dessicate adrenal ...as mentioned by Topper.

Lee

The Adrenal Glands

This is the adrenal medulla and the adrenal cortex. ... You could eat

10 to 15 grapefruits or take licorice root extract to ... Whole

Dessicated Adrenal ...

www.becomehealthynow.com/article/bodyendocrine/679/6/ - 116k - Cached

- Similar pages

[ More results from www.becomehealthynow.com ]

>

> Hi ,

> Thank you, you always make so much sense! You have a unique and

smart way of looking at things.

> To be honest.....I really don't want to jump right into

hydrocortisone. I feel like I have " room " to try other things first. I

think I'd like to try something OTC. I am going to start on a 1/2

grain of Armour splitting it into 2 doses. Then go for tests in 6

weeks. So I will be taking that adjustment VERY slow. Can you give me

an idea of where to purchase the OTC glandular for adrenals?

>

> ~E:),

> Thanks for all the suggestions! I will try something different first

and see what works best for me. I feel so much better since reading

yours and 's posts.

>

> Lori

> Re: Need advice/opinions

please.....

>

>

> Its

> a judgement call.

>

> You're numbers aren't too far off... so you are in the 'mild'

category,

> IMHO.

>

> Hydrocortisone.. has side affects.. as in if you do it wrong you

can do

> more harm than good.

>

> A lot of folks use cortisol.

>

> I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens to be OTC, no

> prescription required and doesn't have the 'shut down factor' of

> hydrocortisone.

>

> Here is what it boils down to.

>

> Adding an adrenal support/supplement makes it easier for your body to

> handle the increase in thyroid hormone. How much of an affect it will

> have depends on a few different things.

> How hypo (how low are your actual thyroid hormones) are you?

> How long have you been hypo?

> How severe is your level of adrenal fatigue?

> How much thyroid hormone replacement are you starting on (doesn't

matter

> if it's Armour (natural) or synthetic (like Synthroid)?

>

> It's suggested (even on many of the thyroid hormone bottle

inserts) that

> adrenal function be tested before started on thyroid hormone

replacement.

> Is that a good idea, yes. Again, depending on how severe your adrenal

> insufficiency is it can have a pretty significant impact.

>

> Is it better to do this under the supervision of a doctor? YES, if he

> knows what he's doing.

>

> Can you start thyroid hormone without adrenal support? Yes, if the

> adrenal function isn't too bad you just take the thyroid hormone

> adjustments in reasonable amounts (1/4 to 1/2 for natural.. 25 mcg

to 50

> mcg for synthetic T4 --- the higher the dose the smaller the

increments

> should be). You'll also do better, in the long run, leaving enough

time

> between adjustments in thyroid hormone to allow your body to

adjust, and

> that includes allowing the adrenals to become accustomed as well. That

> ends up being 4 to 6 weeks, with 6 weeks being better for your body in

> the long run.. for some, like me, I'm sensitive to adjustments and the

> higher my dosage gets, the closer to optimal it gets, the longer

period

> of time I need between adjustments... When I'm in the 3 1/2 grain

per day

> and over range I do better with 12 weeks between adjustments.

>

> Is it frustrating giving your body extra time? DUH, Yeah.... is it

worth

> doing things in a way that reduces the stress to you body and

allows it

> to readjust things and get back to a healthy level of function...

DUH..

> yeah...

>

> So it ends up being YOUR decision. You have to decide what you are

more

> comfortable with. You're the one that has to sit down with your

doc and

> discuss adding the extra support, or opt to self treat.

> You're the one that knows how you feel, how your body does, or

does not,

> tolerate the adjustments.

> You're the one that lives your life and is able to judge the

impact all

> this stuff is having on your life.

>

> Lots of folks get really adamant about how you HAVE to do it this

way or

> that. I have my own strong opinions on stuff as well..... but it's not

> for any of us to TELL you what to do.. or put it in an 'or else'

> scenario'.

>

> Am I glad that I went on adrenal support.. oh yeah.. .a thousand times

> yes.... but I did it wrong, for me, when I first started. Scared the

> dickens out of myself, learned a valuable lesson. I'll give the short

> version of this story, cuz what I just said sounds a lot scarier

that it

> should. I started with the OTC glandular adrenal. I was smart and

split

> the tabs in half, to be starting out slow. That was good. Oh my

gosh, I

> felt wonderful on them. I'd been on thyroid hormone, for a few months,

> after being without for nearly three years, and I just can't

describe how

> much better I felt. I was able to do things, I WANTED to do

things, and I

> did them. I was doing chores around the house I was working on

long put

> off projects. I was working extra fun stuff.. just a busy little bee

> compared to how I'd been for a long, long time. One day I was walking

> down the hall and fell down. My legs just kinda gave out. I got

myself up

> and kept on heading for the bathroom, I'd just gotten out of

bed... and

> fell again. Got myself up, finished the nature run.. seemed to be

okay.

> Later that day I was peeling apples or potatoes, don't remember which,

> anyway, my hands cramped up, like claws, and locked... took forever

> (maybe a half hour) for them to relax and be able to move them again.

> This falling and cramping when on intermittently for about a week.

Then

> one night I was having a bear of a time staying on my feet...

that's when

> I got scared. That was the night I got online to find a support group.

> Found one, laid out my symptoms. The gals all confabbed and came

up with

> a theory. The adrenal supplement on top of the thyroid hormone was

> exactly what I needed, but, I felt too good, too fast and didn't pace

> myself. My body couldn't keep up with what I wanted to do. So the only

> way it had to slow me down was to fall me down, or lock up my hands to

> make me stop.

>

> I stopped the adrenal AND SLOWED MY BUTT DOWN. Basically took a

month of

> R&R to recover from what amounted to muscle fatigue and exhaustion.

>

> Then I was fine. Started back up on a quarter tab of the adrenal.

Learned

> to pace myself and allow my body to gain some strength and endurance.

>

> It was during the one month hiatus that and I (who met that

night I

> was online looking for help) became friends and started this group. (

> lookin up at the sky, waving... Hey Pard! )

>

> How any of this, low thyroid (or no) thyroid function, and low adrenal

> function affects us is very individual. There is no pat answer for

> everyone.

>

> Do you have to make a decision today, this week? I don't think so.

IMHO.

> Your numbers aren't grossly off. You aren't so incapacitated as to be

> flat on your back or anything like that, so your body isn't

showing that

> it's grasping at straws just trying to stay alive.

>

> You have some time to study, ask questions, observe how your body is

> responding... think...

>

> You seem to have good common sense. Someone said something to you that

> didn't 'feel right' and you asked around, here.. you're smart

enough to

> be able to make an educated choice without being pushed into something

> blindly.

>

> Well, that's my thoughts....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:46:33 -0000 " freckly3321 "

> writes:

> > , and anyone who has an opinion,

> >

> > I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my adrenals

checked.

> >

> > I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could get by starting

> > Armour without any additional adrenal support. I posted on a

> > different site last night and was told I needed to start

> > hydrocortisone because with my test results I wouldn't do well on

> > Armour unless I did. These are my test results (sorry for posting

> > them again):

> >

> > 7-8am 11 depressed 13-24

> > 11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10

> > 4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8

> > 11-midnight 3 normal 1-4

> >

> > cortisol burden 27 range 23-42

> > DHEA 5 normal range 3-10

> >

> > I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors visit we didn't

> > discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be bought with a

> > script and I'm not sure my doctor would do that.

> >

> > Lori

>

[Guest guest]

Lee,

Thansk for the info. I will check it out. Lori

Re: Need advice/opinionsplease.....> > > Its> a judgement call.> > You're numbers aren't too far off... so you are in the 'mild'category,> IMHO.> > Hydrocortisone.. has side affects.. as in if you do it wrong youcan do> more harm than good.> > A lot of folks use cortisol.> > I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens to be OTC, no> prescription required and doesn't have the 'shut down factor' of> hydrocortisone.> > Here is what it boils down to.> > Adding an adrenal support/supplement makes it easier for your body to> handle the increase in thyroid hormone. How much of an affect it will> have depends on a few different things.> How hypo (how low are your actual thyroid hormones) are you?> How long have you been hypo?> How severe is your level of adrenal fatigue?> How much thyroid hormone replacement are you starting on (doesn'tmatter> if it's Armour (natural) or synthetic (like Synthroid)?> > It's suggested (even on many of the thyroid hormone bottleinserts) that> adrenal function be tested before started on thyroid hormonereplacement.> Is that a good idea, yes. Again, depending on how severe your adrenal> insufficiency is it can have a pretty significant impact.> > Is it better to do this under the supervision of a doctor? YES, if he> knows what he's doing.> > Can you start thyroid hormone without adrenal support? Yes, if the> adrenal function isn't too bad you just take the thyroid hormone> adjustments in reasonable amounts (1/4 to 1/2 for natural.. 25 mcgto 50> mcg for synthetic T4 --- the higher the dose the smaller theincrements> should be). You'll also do better, in the long run, leaving enoughtime> between adjustments in thyroid hormone to allow your body toadjust, and> that includes allowing the adrenals to become accustomed as well. That> ends up being 4 to 6 weeks, with 6 weeks being better for your body in> the long run.. for some, like me, I'm sensitive to adjustments and the> higher my dosage gets, the closer to optimal it gets, the longerperiod> of time I need between adjustments... When I'm in the 3 1/2 grainper day> and over range I do better with 12 weeks between adjustments.> > Is it frustrating giving your body extra time? DUH, Yeah.... is itworth> doing things in a way that reduces the stress to you body andallows it> to readjust things and get back to a healthy level of function...DUH..> yeah... > > So it ends up being YOUR decision. You have to decide what you aremore> comfortable with. You're the one that has to sit down with yourdoc and> discuss adding the extra support, or opt to self treat.> You're the one that knows how you feel, how your body does, ordoes not,> tolerate the adjustments.> You're the one that lives your life and is able to judge theimpact all> this stuff is having on your life.> > Lots of folks get really adamant about how you HAVE to do it thisway or> that. I have my own strong opinions on stuff as well..... but it's not> for any of us to TELL you what to do.. or put it in an 'or else'> scenario'.> > Am I glad that I went on adrenal support.. oh yeah.. .a thousand times> yes.... but I did it wrong, for me, when I first started. Scared the> dickens out of myself, learned a valuable lesson. I'll give the short> version of this story, cuz what I just said sounds a lot scarierthat it> should. I started with the OTC glandular adrenal. I was smart andsplit> the tabs in half, to be starting out slow. That was good. Oh mygosh, I> felt wonderful on them. I'd been on thyroid hormone, for a few months,> after being without for nearly three years, and I just can'tdescribe how> much better I felt. I was able to do things, I WANTED to dothings, and I> did them. I was doing chores around the house I was working onlong put> off projects. I was working extra fun stuff.. just a busy little bee> compared to how I'd been for a long, long time. One day I was walking> down the hall and fell down. My legs just kinda gave out. I gotmyself up> and kept on heading for the bathroom, I'd just gotten out ofbed... and> fell again. Got myself up, finished the nature run.. seemed to beokay.> Later that day I was peeling apples or potatoes, don't remember which,> anyway, my hands cramped up, like claws, and locked... took forever> (maybe a half hour) for them to relax and be able to move them again.> This falling and cramping when on intermittently for about a week.Then> one night I was having a bear of a time staying on my feet...that's when> I got scared. That was the night I got online to find a support group.> Found one, laid out my symptoms. The gals all confabbed and cameup with> a theory. The adrenal supplement on top of the thyroid hormone was> exactly what I needed, but, I felt too good, too fast and didn't pace> myself. My body couldn't keep up with what I wanted to do. So the only> way it had to slow me down was to fall me down, or lock up my hands to> make me stop. > > I stopped the adrenal AND SLOWED MY BUTT DOWN. Basically took amonth of> R & R to recover from what amounted to muscle fatigue and exhaustion.> > Then I was fine. Started back up on a quarter tab of the adrenal.Learned> to pace myself and allow my body to gain some strength and endurance.> > It was during the one month hiatus that and I (who met thatnight I> was online looking for help) became friends and started this group. (> lookin up at the sky, waving... Hey Pard! )> > How any of this, low thyroid (or no) thyroid function, and low adrenal> function affects us is very individual. There is no pat answer for> everyone.> > Do you have to make a decision today, this week? I don't think so.IMHO.> Your numbers aren't grossly off. You aren't so incapacitated as to be> flat on your back or anything like that, so your body isn'tshowing that> it's grasping at straws just trying to stay alive.> > You have some time to study, ask questions, observe how your body is> responding... think...> > You seem to have good common sense. Someone said something to you that> didn't 'feel right' and you asked around, here.. you're smartenough to> be able to make an educated choice without being pushed into something> blindly.> > Well, that's my thoughts.... > > Topper ()> > On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:46:33 -0000 "freckly3321" > writes:> > , and anyone who has an opinion,> > > > I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my adrenalschecked. > > > > I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could get by starting > > Armour without any additional adrenal support. I posted on a > > different site last night and was told I needed to start > > hydrocortisone because with my test results I wouldn't do well on > > Armour unless I did. These are my test results (sorry for posting > > them again):> > > > 7-8am 11 depressed 13-24> > 11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10> > 4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8> > 11-midnight 3 normal 1-4> > > > cortisol burden 27 range 23-42> > DHEA 5 normal range 3-10> > > > I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors visit we didn't > > discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be bought with a > > script and I'm not sure my doctor would do that. > > > > Lori>

[Guest guest]

I can tell you where I get what I use... the others can chime in with sources for the products that they use.

www.nutri-meds.com

It's the bovine adrenal glandular. Basically it's freeze dried adrenal gland, from cows., made pretty much the same way Armour is, which is freeze dried porcine thyroid, that means it comes from pigs.

Most of this stuff is common sense , once you understand the basics of it... and with all the brains (and caring) of the folks here to watch our backs....

.... it works....

Topper ()

On Sun, 6 May 2007 13:46:25 -0500 "Lori" writes:

Hi ,

Thank you, you always make so much sense! You have a unique and smart way of looking at things.

To be honest.....I really don't want to jump right into hydrocortisone. I feel like I have "room" to try other things first. I think I'd like to try something OTC. I am going to start on a 1/2 grain of Armour splitting it into 2 doses. Then go for tests in 6 weeks. So I will be taking that adjustment VERY slow. Can you give me an idea of where to purchase the OTC glandular for adrenals?

~E:),

Thanks for all the suggestions! I will try something different first and see what works best for me. I feel so much better since reading yours and 's posts.

Lori

[Guest guest]

I wonder if grapefruit is recommended for the Vitamin

C content,

In a section entitled Adrenal Stress Management Dr

Peatfield says in his book 'Your Thyroid and how to

keep it healthy', that " Most important is vitamin C,

required for the enzyme processes throughout the

complex adrenal cascade. The turnover of Vitamin C is

always increased in times of stress. It is required

in substantial doses, divided over the day; no less

than 2 grams per day, and my be up to 10 grams. Should

it cause indegestion or looseness of the bowel, you

should modify the intake accordingly. Some people have

delicate stomachs and will benefit from buffered

vitamin C. "

If you can get hold of the book you will find this

information on pages 116-117.

--- Lori Freckly2@...> wrote:

> Lee,

> Thansk for the info. I will check it out. Lori

> Re: Need

> advice/opinions

> please.....

> >

> >

> > Its

> > a judgement call.

> >

> > You're numbers aren't too far off... so you are

> in the 'mild'

> category,

> > IMHO.

> >

> > Hydrocortisone.. has side affects.. as in if you

> do it wrong you

> can do

> > more harm than good.

> >

> > A lot of folks use cortisol.

> >

> > I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens

> to be OTC, no

> > prescription required and doesn't have the 'shut

> down factor' of

> > hydrocortisone.

> >

> > Here is what it boils down to.

> >

> > Adding an adrenal support/supplement makes it

> easier for your body to

> > handle the increase in thyroid hormone. How much

> of an affect it will

> > have depends on a few different things.

> > How hypo (how low are your actual thyroid

> hormones) are you?

> > How long have you been hypo?

> > How severe is your level of adrenal fatigue?

> > How much thyroid hormone replacement are you

> starting on (doesn't

> matter

> > if it's Armour (natural) or synthetic (like

> Synthroid)?

> >

> > It's suggested (even on many of the thyroid

> hormone bottle

> inserts) that

> > adrenal function be tested before started on

> thyroid hormone

> replacement.

> > Is that a good idea, yes. Again, depending on

> how severe your adrenal

> > insufficiency is it can have a pretty

> significant impact.

> >

> > Is it better to do this under the supervision of

> a doctor? YES, if he

> > knows what he's doing.

> >

> > Can you start thyroid hormone without adrenal

> support? Yes, if the

> > adrenal function isn't too bad you just take the

> thyroid hormone

> > adjustments in reasonable amounts (1/4 to 1/2

> for natural.. 25 mcg

> to 50

> > mcg for synthetic T4 --- the higher the dose the

> smaller the

> increments

> > should be). You'll also do better, in the long

> run, leaving enough

> time

> > between adjustments in thyroid hormone to allow

> your body to

> adjust, and

> > that includes allowing the adrenals to become

> accustomed as well. That

> > ends up being 4 to 6 weeks, with 6 weeks being

> better for your body in

> > the long run.. for some, like me, I'm sensitive

> to adjustments and the

> > higher my dosage gets, the closer to optimal it

> gets, the longer

> period

> > of time I need between adjustments... When I'm

> in the 3 1/2 grain

> per day

> > and over range I do better with 12 weeks between

> adjustments.

> >

> > Is it frustrating giving your body extra time?

> DUH, Yeah.... is it

> worth

> > doing things in a way that reduces the stress to

> you body and

> allows it

> > to readjust things and get back to a healthy

> level of function...

> DUH..

> > yeah...

> >

> > So it ends up being YOUR decision. You have to

> decide what you are

> more

> > comfortable with. You're the one that has to sit

> down with your

> doc and

> > discuss adding the extra support, or opt to self

> treat.

> > You're the one that knows how you feel, how your

> body does, or

> does not,

> > tolerate the adjustments.

> > You're the one that lives your life and is able

> to judge the

> impact all

> > this stuff is having on your life.

> >

> > Lots of folks get really adamant about how you

> HAVE to do it this

> way or

> > that. I have my own strong opinions on stuff as

> well..... but it's not

> > for any of us to TELL you what to do.. or put it

> in an 'or else'

> > scenario'.

> >

> > Am I glad that I went on adrenal support.. oh

> yeah..

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Interesting to hear. I swear by divided doses of vitamin C... I take it

with meals four times a day, at about 150 mg each time and if I feel a

sniffle coming on or something I'll add another couple of tablets (500

mg) that I chop into quarters and take scattered throughout the day.

Didn't catch a cold at all this winter, despite everything and the folks

having colds... Didn't get one last year either.

Topper ()

On Sun, 6 May 2007 15:56:00 -0700 (PDT)

knodgery@...> writes:

> I wonder if grapefruit is recommended for the Vitamin

> C content,

> In a section entitled Adrenal Stress Management Dr

> Peatfield says in his book 'Your Thyroid and how to

> keep it healthy', that " Most important is vitamin C,

> required for the enzyme processes throughout the

> complex adrenal cascade. The turnover of Vitamin C is

> always increased in times of stress. It is required

> in substantial doses, divided over the day; no less

> than 2 grams per day, and my be up to 10 grams. Should

> it cause indegestion or looseness of the bowel, you

> should modify the intake accordingly. Some people have

> delicate stomachs and will benefit from buffered

> vitamin C. "

> If you can get hold of the book you will find this

> information on pages 116-117.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5 supplement (250mg 2x per day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize the B5. I'm also adding Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add these "one at a time" to make sure I can handle them. Later I would like to add 200mg of Selenium. The first few supplements, I have read, are good for boosting adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't doing the job I will then consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they work. I want hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.

What do you think??

Lori

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

Itsa judgement call.You're numbers aren't too far off... so you are in the 'mild' category,IMHO.Hydrocortisone.. has side affects.. as in if you do it wrong you can domore harm than good.A lot of folks use cortisol.I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens to be OTC, noprescription required and doesn't have the 'shut down factor' ofhydrocortisone.Here is what it boils down to.Adding an adrenal support/supplement makes it easier for your body tohandle the increase in thyroid hormone. How much of an affect it willhave depends on a few different things.How hypo (how low are your actual thyroid hormones) are you?How long have you been hypo?How severe is your level of adrenal fatigue?How much thyroid hormone replacement are you starting on (doesn't matterif it's Armour (natural) or synthetic (like Synthroid)?It's suggested (even on many of the thyroid hormone bottle inserts) thatadrenal function be tested before started on thyroid hormone replacement.Is that a good idea, yes. Again, depending on how severe your adrenalinsufficiency is it can have a pretty significant impact.Is it better to do this under the supervision of a doctor? YES, if heknows what he's doing.Can you start thyroid hormone without adrenal support? Yes, if theadrenal function isn't too bad you just take the thyroid hormoneadjustments in reasonable amounts (1/4 to 1/2 for natural.. 25 mcg to 50mcg for synthetic T4 --- the higher the dose the smaller the incrementsshould be). You'll also do better, in the long run, leaving enough timebetween adjustments in thyroid hormone to allow your body to adjust, andthat includes allowing the adrenals to become accustomed as well. Thatends up being 4 to 6 weeks, with 6 weeks being better for your body inthe long run.. for some, like me, I'm sensitive to adjustments and thehigher my dosage gets, the closer to optimal it gets, the longer periodof time I need between adjustments... When I'm in the 3 1/2 grain per dayand over range I do better with 12 weeks between adjustments.Is it frustrating giving your body extra time? DUH, Yeah.... is it worthdoing things in a way that reduces the stress to you body and allows itto readjust things and get back to a healthy level of function... DUH..yeah... So it ends up being YOUR decision. You have to decide what you are morecomfortable with. You're the one that has to sit down with your doc anddiscuss adding the extra support, or opt to self treat.You're the one that knows how you feel, how your body does, or does not,tolerate the adjustments.You're the one that lives your life and is able to judge the impact allthis stuff is having on your life.Lots of folks get really adamant about how you HAVE to do it this way orthat. I have my own strong opinions on stuff as well..... but it's notfor any of us to TELL you what to do.. or put it in an 'or else'scenario'.Am I glad that I went on adrenal support.. oh yeah.. .a thousand timesyes.... but I did it wrong, for me, when I first started. Scared thedickens out of myself, learned a valuable lesson. I'll give the shortversion of this story, cuz what I just said sounds a lot scarier that itshould. I started with the OTC glandular adrenal. I was smart and splitthe tabs in half, to be starting out slow. That was good. Oh my gosh, Ifelt wonderful on them. I'd been on thyroid hormone, for a few months,after being without for nearly three years, and I just can't describe howmuch better I felt. I was able to do things, I WANTED to do things, and Idid them. I was doing chores around the house I was working on long putoff projects. I was working extra fun stuff.. just a busy little beecompared to how I'd been for a long, long time. One day I was walkingdown the hall and fell down. My legs just kinda gave out. I got myself upand kept on heading for the bathroom, I'd just gotten out of bed... andfell again. Got myself up, finished the nature run.. seemed to be okay.Later that day I was peeling apples or potatoes, don't remember which,anyway, my hands cramped up, like claws, and locked... took forever(maybe a half hour) for them to relax and be able to move them again.This falling and cramping when on intermittently for about a week. Thenone night I was having a bear of a time staying on my feet... that's whenI got scared. That was the night I got online to find a support group.Found one, laid out my symptoms. The gals all confabbed and came up witha theory. The adrenal supplement on top of the thyroid hormone wasexactly what I needed, but, I felt too good, too fast and didn't pacemyself. My body couldn't keep up with what I wanted to do. So the onlyway it had to slow me down was to fall me down, or lock up my hands tomake me stop. I stopped the adrenal AND SLOWED MY BUTT DOWN. Basically took a month ofR & R to recover from what amounted to muscle fatigue and exhaustion.Then I was fine. Started back up on a quarter tab of the adrenal. Learnedto pace myself and allow my body to gain some strength and endurance.It was during the one month hiatus that and I (who met that night Iwas online looking for help) became friends and started this group. (lookin up at the sky, waving... Hey Pard! )How any of this, low thyroid (or no) thyroid function, and low adrenalfunction affects us is very individual. There is no pat answer foreveryone.Do you have to make a decision today, this week? I don't think so. IMHO.Your numbers aren't grossly off. You aren't so incapacitated as to beflat on your back or anything like that, so your body isn't showing thatit's grasping at straws just trying to stay alive.You have some time to study, ask questions, observe how your body isresponding... think...You seem to have good common sense. Someone said something to you thatdidn't 'feel right' and you asked around, here.. you're smart enough tobe able to make an educated choice without being pushed into somethingblindly.Well, that's my thoughts.... Topper ()On Sun, 06 May 2007 15:46:33 -0000 "freckly3321" <Freckly2 (AT) >writes:> , and anyone who has an opinion,> > I'm not sure if you remember but I recently had my adrenals checked. > > I thought since I had mild adrenal fatigue I could get by starting > Armour without any additional adrenal support. I posted on a > different site last night and was told I needed to start > hydrocortisone because with my test results I wouldn't do well on > Armour unless I did. These are my test results (sorry for posting > them again):> > 7-8am 11 depressed 13-24> 11-12pm 11 elevated 5-10> 4-5pm 2 depressed 3-8> 11-midnight 3 normal 1-4> > cortisol burden 27 range 23-42> DHEA 5 normal range 3-10> > I'm really unsure what to do....at my last doctors visit we didn't > discuss this at all. Hydrocortisone can only be bought with a > script and I'm not sure my doctor would do that. > > Lori

[Guest guest]

I'm balancing on the top of the fence with using herbs and vitamins for adrenals...

See.. I can't decide. I'm sure it's an individual circumstance thing..

The supplements help the adrenals to be able to function better, relieves nutrient deficiency stress. that's a GOOD thing.

But if the glands are really 'burned out' and struggling.. with nutrient supplementation be enough?

For me it wouldn't have been... you're not nearly as bad as me, so I'm gonna say it's a great first step for you. If that's just the nudge of help your glands need to be able to get back into proper production timing.. then you have a it licked.. that's a GOOD thing.

Would like to hear other thoughts on the Selenium. Since the Selenium is involved with improving thyroid hormone conversion... is it better to do it sooner, or later?

I REALLY like that you know to do one item at a time. So that you can isolate what is doing what, be it good, indifferent or bad. That's a hard thing to do, for me to... I want to start everything right away and get better quicker.... but the fact is that it VERY rarely works that way... doing it one at a time you can see how your body responds to that thing, and that knowledge can point you toward other things that might also help your body.

I wish thyroid care was more like baking a cake... measure all the ingredients correctly, mix and bake... wouldn't that be cool? But, alas... all of us are in need of different ingredients and proportions cuz we're all baking different cakes!

heheheh

Topper ()

On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:23:15 -0500 "Lori" writes:

Hi ,

Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5 supplement (250mg 2x per day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize the B5. I'm also adding Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add these "one at a time" to make sure I can handle them. Later I would like to add 200mg of Selenium. The first few supplements, I have read, are good for boosting adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't doing the job I will then consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they work. I want hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.

What do you think??

Lori

[Guest guest]

Great analogy....with the cakes! I agree, some use oil, some butter, some use more, some use less, different flavors, etc., etc.

I'm thinking my Armour will be in today's mail. I'm going to start SLOW with the 1/2 grain split into 2 doses. How far apart should I take them? Or is that individual too?

I figure with the nutrient supps, maybe I'm getting something my body needs anyway. I guess once I start Armour I'll know if it's gonna work and can go from there. We'll see.

I have the Selenium, I might add it in sooner than later.

Lori

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

I'm balancing on the top of the fence with using herbs and vitamins for adrenals...

See.. I can't decide. I'm sure it's an individual circumstance thing..

The supplements help the adrenals to be able to function better, relieves nutrient deficiency stress. that's a GOOD thing.

But if the glands are really 'burned out' and struggling.. with nutrient supplementation be enough?

For me it wouldn't have been... you're not nearly as bad as me, so I'm gonna say it's a great first step for you. If that's just the nudge of help your glands need to be able to get back into proper production timing.. then you have a it licked.. that's a GOOD thing.

Would like to hear other thoughts on the Selenium. Since the Selenium is involved with improving thyroid hormone conversion... is it better to do it sooner, or later?

I REALLY like that you know to do one item at a time. So that you can isolate what is doing what, be it good, indifferent or bad. That's a hard thing to do, for me to... I want to start everything right away and get better quicker.... but the fact is that it VERY rarely works that way... doing it one at a time you can see how your body responds to that thing, and that knowledge can point you toward other things that might also help your body.

I wish thyroid care was more like baking a cake... measure all the ingredients correctly, mix and bake... wouldn't that be cool? But, alas... all of us are in need of different ingredients and proportions cuz we're all baking different cakes!

heheheh

Topper ()

On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:23:15 -0500 "Lori" <Freckly2 (AT) > writes:

Hi ,

Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5 supplement (250mg 2x per day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize the B5. I'm also adding Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add these "one at a time" to make sure I can handle them. Later I would like to add 200mg of Selenium. The first few supplements, I have read, are good for boosting adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't doing the job I will then consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they work. I want hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.

What do you think??

Lori

[Guest guest]

Freck:

Well, I would sort of just organize myself a bit

there.

There are nutrients, there are adrenal support

supplements (isocort, nutrimeds, adreset), then there

are adrenal support adaptogenic herbs (ginseng,

ashwanghanda, licorice, maca, borage oil)...and other

adrenal aiding hormones (Dhea and pregnenalone) and

etc. The list is long.

I guess one could say at the top of the list would be

the nutrients...and at the bottom would be the

hydro...or delta even prednisone which is the a really

powerful one.

Since you have seem labs that indicate dysrythym...I'd

be more inclined to go with something stronger than a

nutrient.

Now...Selenium doesn't fall in that category. Its

viewed more regularly to aid thyroid hormone

conversion...an enzyme helper. I found one without

yeast that I take every day. The ones with the yeast

really bothered my tummy.

Its your call how you want to tackle this....as

staging and experimenting will take you time. Most

people feel comfortable trying the gentler remedies

and working their way up...as you suggest.

Good luck!

~E:)

--- topper2@... wrote:

> I'm balancing on the top of the fence with using

> herbs and vitamins for

> adrenals...

>

> See.. I can't decide. I'm sure it's an individual

> circumstance thing..

>

> The supplements help the adrenals to be able to

> function better, relieves

> nutrient deficiency stress. that's a GOOD thing.

>

> But if the glands are really 'burned out' and

> struggling.. with nutrient

> supplementation be enough?

>

> For me it wouldn't have been... you're not nearly as

> bad as me, so I'm

> gonna say it's a great first step for you. If that's

> just the nudge of

> help your glands need to be able to get back into

> proper production

> timing.. then you have a it licked.. that's a GOOD

> thing.

>

> Would like to hear other thoughts on the Selenium.

> Since the Selenium is

> involved with improving thyroid hormone

> conversion... is it better to do

> it sooner, or later?

>

> I REALLY like that you know to do one item at a

> time. So that you can

> isolate what is doing what, be it good, indifferent

> or bad. That's a hard

> thing to do, for me to... I want to start everything

> right away and get

> better quicker.... but the fact is that it VERY

> rarely works that way...

> doing it one at a time you can see how your body

> responds to that thing,

> and that knowledge can point you toward other things

> that might also help

> your body.

>

> I wish thyroid care was more like baking a cake...

> measure all the

> ingredients correctly, mix and bake... wouldn't that

> be cool? But,

> alas... all of us are in need of different

> ingredients and proportions

> cuz we're all baking different cakes!

>

> heheheh

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:23:15 -0500 " Lori "

> Freckly2@...> writes:

> Hi ,

> Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5

> supplement (250mg 2x per

> day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize the

> B5. I'm also adding

> Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add these

> " one at a time " to

> make sure I can handle them. Later I would like to

> add 200mg of

> Selenium. The first few supplements, I have read,

> are good for boosting

> adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't doing

> the job I will then

> consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they

> work. I want

> hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.

>

> What do you think??

> Lori

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

~E,

Would it be safe/ok to add a support item such as isocort/adreset while taking the nutrients? I have licorice but it doesn't say root "extract", just root. And it says 450mg certified? I also have the adaptogenic herb Ginseng (panax ginseng) 100mg tabs. I only took 1 of the licorice pills then stopped because I wanted to talk to the doctor at my last appt. but forgot all about adrenals trying to get a script for Armour. I haven't taken any of the Ginseng. My doctor is gone for 2 weeks so I can't get her opinion, so I feel I'm on my own to make this decision. I just don't want to mess myself up any worse. Plus, being indecisive, is a VERY big problem for me. I'm leaving for Florida around the 6th of June and wanted to have this decision made because I will be gone for almost a month. When I get back I have to go for new labs to see how I'm doing on Armour. Getting my adrenals right sounds like it's going to take a long time and I really wanted to start Armour. I sound impatient don't I? Sorry. Just really confused on what to do.

Lori

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

Freck:Well, I would sort of just organize myself a bitthere. There are nutrients, there are adrenal supportsupplements (isocort, nutrimeds, adreset), then thereare adrenal support adaptogenic herbs (ginseng,ashwanghanda, licorice, maca, borage oil)...and otheradrenal aiding hormones (Dhea and pregnenalone) andetc. The list is long. I guess one could say at the top of the list would bethe nutrients...and at the bottom would be thehydro...or delta even prednisone which is the a reallypowerful one. Since you have seem labs that indicate dysrythym...I'dbe more inclined to go with something stronger than anutrient. Now...Selenium doesn't fall in that category. Itsviewed more regularly to aid thyroid hormoneconversion...an enzyme helper. I found one withoutyeast that I take every day. The ones with the yeastreally bothered my tummy. Its your call how you want to tackle this....asstaging and experimenting will take you time. Mostpeople feel comfortable trying the gentler remediesand working their way up...as you suggest.:)Good luck!~E:)--- topper2 (AT) juno (DOT) com wrote:> I'm balancing on the top of the fence with using> herbs and vitamins for> adrenals...> > See.. I can't decide. I'm sure it's an individual> circumstance thing..> > The supplements help the adrenals to be able to> function better, relieves> nutrient deficiency stress. that's a GOOD thing.> > But if the glands are really 'burned out' and> struggling.. with nutrient> supplementation be enough?> > For me it wouldn't have been... you're not nearly as> bad as me, so I'm> gonna say it's a great first step for you. If that's> just the nudge of> help your glands need to be able to get back into> proper production> timing.. then you have a it licked.. that's a GOOD> thing.> > Would like to hear other thoughts on the Selenium.> Since the Selenium is> involved with improving thyroid hormone> conversion... is it better to do> it sooner, or later?> > I REALLY like that you know to do one item at a> time. So that you can> isolate what is doing what, be it good, indifferent> or bad. That's a hard> thing to do, for me to... I want to start everything> right away and get> better quicker.... but the fact is that it VERY> rarely works that way...> doing it one at a time you can see how your body> responds to that thing,> and that knowledge can point you toward other things> that might also help> your body.> > I wish thyroid care was more like baking a cake...> measure all the> ingredients correctly, mix and bake... wouldn't that> be cool? But,> alas... all of us are in need of different> ingredients and proportions> cuz we're all baking different cakes!> > heheheh> > Topper ()> > On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:23:15 -0500 "Lori"> <Freckly2 (AT) > writes:> Hi ,> Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5> supplement (250mg 2x per> day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize the> B5. I'm also adding> Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add these> "one at a time" to> make sure I can handle them. Later I would like to> add 200mg of> Selenium. The first few supplements, I have read,> are good for boosting> adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't doing> the job I will then> consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they> work. I want> hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.> > What do you think??> LoriDay after day, day after day,We stuck, nor breath nor motion;As idle as a painted shipUpon a painted ocean.Water, water, everywhere,And all the boards did shrink;Water, water, everywhere,Nor any drop to drink.~The Ancient Mariner__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Freck:

Ah yes, understand the dilemma completely.

Okay, here's one other thing to toss into the mix.

Often times an adrenal support..if its strong enough

will impact the thyroid hormone.

The whole endocrine does this dance, and if you change

one...you pretty much change the lot. See?

I would want my tests to be clean. MEANING...if you

are gonna start taking Armour....30 mgs per day lets

say, that would be fine to start and say one ginseng

pill or two just during times of your dips.

TAKE it for a few days and see how you feel...

IF it doesn't agree with you in some way...then you

want to switch to another that you have. (diarize the

changes and circle the amount of days you take each

one....)

Ideally, you are shooting for a good time-frame (like

four weeks) so you can test again to see where your

bloods landed. NOW..then you would keep doing the

same thing, until you managed to get your frees up and

you are feeling good.

Over time...maybe six months down the road after you

have a full replacement of Armour, you may want to

back away slowly from your adrenal med, and replace it

with a 1/4 grain of Armour to see how that sits. SEE?

While its VERY important to remember that any adrenal

support impacts the Armour...(in some folks it zips it

up)...its also important to realize that it can play a

limited role. This is why once you are on it, you are

gonna want to be consistent with it...just like your

thyroid pills.

Now...docs often times are looking to rule of extreme

forms of adrenal disease and refuse to consider a

gradation of such a maladie which may be quite common.

This may hinder your ability to have a comprehensive

enlightened discussion with him and you may find on

down the road, an Osteopath or a Holistic doc would be

preferable for this peice of the equation.

I'm sorry if I haven't really given you an answer.

Is there an adaptogen you have tried in the past there

that you like?

I'm not sure about the licorice extract as opposed as

the root. That stuff didn't agree with me. Maybe it

will be perfect for you.

A small amount of Armour to start with an adaptogen

should be fine. JUST please, make sure you are eating

right, maybe drinking Gatorade and eating right to

help make sure your adrenals have some cushion.

And stay out of stressfull situations and take

frequent naps...just to get some down time. THAT will

help out your adrenals a lot.

~E:)

--- Lori Freckly2@...> wrote:

> ~E,

> Would it be safe/ok to add a support item such as

> isocort/adreset while taking the nutrients? I have

> licorice but it doesn't say root " extract " , just

> root. And it says 450mg certified? I also have the

> adaptogenic herb Ginseng (panax ginseng) 100mg tabs.

> I only took 1 of the licorice pills then stopped

> because I wanted to talk to the doctor at my last

> appt. but forgot all about adrenals trying to get a

> script for Armour. I haven't taken any of the

> Ginseng. My doctor is gone for 2 weeks so I can't

> get her opinion, so I feel I'm on my own to make

> this decision. I just don't want to mess myself up

> any worse. Plus, being indecisive, is a VERY big

> problem for me. I'm leaving for Florida around the

> 6th of June and wanted to have this decision made

> because I will be gone for almost a month. When I

> get back I have to go for new labs to see how I'm

> doing on Armour. Getting my adrenals right sounds

> like it's going to take a long time and I really

> wanted to start Armour. I sound impatient don't I?

> Sorry. Just really confused on what to do.

> Lori

> Re: Need

> advice/opinions please.....

>

>

> Freck:

>

> Well, I would sort of just organize myself a bit

> there.

>

> There are nutrients, there are adrenal support

> supplements (isocort, nutrimeds, adreset), then

> there

> are adrenal support adaptogenic herbs (ginseng,

> ashwanghanda, licorice, maca, borage oil)...and

> other

> adrenal aiding hormones (Dhea and pregnenalone)

> and

> etc. The list is long.

>

> I guess one could say at the top of the list would

> be

> the nutrients...and at the bottom would be the

> hydro...or delta even prednisone which is the a

> really

> powerful one.

>

> Since you have seem labs that indicate

> dysrythym...I'd

> be more inclined to go with something stronger

> than a

> nutrient.

>

> Now...Selenium doesn't fall in that category. Its

> viewed more regularly to aid thyroid hormone

> conversion...an enzyme helper. I found one without

> yeast that I take every day. The ones with the

> yeast

> really bothered my tummy.

>

> Its your call how you want to tackle this....as

> staging and experimenting will take you time. Most

> people feel comfortable trying the gentler

> remedies

> and working their way up...as you suggest.

>

> Good luck!

>

> ~E:)

>

> --- topper2@... wrote:

>

> > I'm balancing on the top of the fence with using

> > herbs and vitamins for

> > adrenals...

> >

> > See.. I can't decide. I'm sure it's an

> individual

> > circumstance thing..

> >

> > The supplements help the adrenals to be able to

> > function better, relieves

> > nutrient deficiency stress. that's a GOOD thing.

> >

> > But if the glands are really 'burned out' and

> > struggling.. with nutrient

> > supplementation be enough?

> >

> > For me it wouldn't have been... you're not

> nearly as

> > bad as me, so I'm

> > gonna say it's a great first step for you. If

> that's

> > just the nudge of

> > help your glands need to be able to get back

> into

> > proper production

> > timing.. then you have a it licked.. that's a

> GOOD

> > thing.

> >

> > Would like to hear other thoughts on the

> Selenium.

> > Since the Selenium is

> > involved with improving thyroid hormone

> > conversion... is it better to do

> > it sooner, or later?

> >

> > I REALLY like that you know to do one item at a

> > time. So that you can

> > isolate what is doing what, be it good,

> indifferent

> > or bad. That's a hard

> > thing to do, for me to... I want to start

> everything

> > right away and get

> > better quicker.... but the fact is that it VERY

> > rarely works that way...

> > doing it one at a time you can see how your body

> > responds to that thing,

> > and that knowledge can point you toward other

> things

> > that might also help

> > your body.

> >

> > I wish thyroid care was more like baking a

> cake...

> > measure all the

> > ingredients correctly, mix and bake... wouldn't

> that

> > be cool? But,

> > alas... all of us are in need of different

> > ingredients and proportions

> > cuz we're all baking different cakes!

> >

> > heheheh

> >

> > Topper ()

> >

> > On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:23:15 -0500 " Lori "

> > Freckly2@...> writes:

> > Hi ,

> > Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5

> > supplement (250mg 2x per

> > day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize

> the

> > B5. I'm also adding

> > Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add

> these

> > " one at a time " to

> > make sure I can handle them. Later I would like

> to

> > add 200mg of

> > Selenium. The first few supplements, I have

> read,

> > are good for boosting

> > adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't

> doing

> > the job I will then

> > consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they

> > work. I want

> > hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.

> >

> > What do you think??

> > Lori

>

> Day after day, day after day,

> We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

> As idle as a painted ship

> Upon a painted ocean.

> Water, water, everywhere,

> And all the boards did shrink;

> Water, water, everywhere,

> Nor any drop to drink.

>

> ~The Ancient Mariner

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

~E,

When you say "dips" do you mean the times when my cortisol level is depressed? At the 7-8am time and the 4-5pm time? Or do you mean dips with regards to when the T3 wears off? I'm feeling better about this. I have to get out of the mind frame of "all or nothing". It may or may not work and if it doesn't it's OKAY to just try something else. Am I getting it??? By the way, I just got my Armour and it STINKS really bad!!! I think I'll start it in the morning. I have to decrease my Levoxyl to half (per my doc) and add 1/2 grain of Armour a day. I wanted to start with 1/4 grain total but she said that was pretty low and said it would be ok to start with a half. She said even more would be ok, but I want to be successful on this, so taking it slowly is important to me.

Thanks so much! Lori

Re: Need> advice/opinions please.....> > > Freck:> > Well, I would sort of just organize myself a bit> there. > > There are nutrients, there are adrenal support> supplements (isocort, nutrimeds, adreset), then> there> are adrenal support adaptogenic herbs (ginseng,> ashwanghanda, licorice, maca, borage oil)...and> other> adrenal aiding hormones (Dhea and pregnenalone)> and> etc. The list is long. > > I guess one could say at the top of the list would> be> the nutrients...and at the bottom would be the> hydro...or delta even prednisone which is the a> really> powerful one. > > Since you have seem labs that indicate> dysrythym...I'd> be more inclined to go with something stronger> than a> nutrient. > > Now...Selenium doesn't fall in that category. Its> viewed more regularly to aid thyroid hormone> conversion...an enzyme helper. I found one without> yeast that I take every day. The ones with the> yeast> really bothered my tummy. > > Its your call how you want to tackle this....as> staging and experimenting will take you time. Most> people feel comfortable trying the gentler> remedies> and working their way up...as you suggest.> > Good luck!> > ~E:)> > --- topper2 (AT) juno (DOT) com wrote:> > > I'm balancing on the top of the fence with using> > herbs and vitamins for> > adrenals...> > > > See.. I can't decide. I'm sure it's an> individual> > circumstance thing..> > > > The supplements help the adrenals to be able to> > function better, relieves> > nutrient deficiency stress. that's a GOOD thing.> > > > But if the glands are really 'burned out' and> > struggling.. with nutrient> > supplementation be enough?> > > > For me it wouldn't have been... you're not> nearly as> > bad as me, so I'm> > gonna say it's a great first step for you. If> that's> > just the nudge of> > help your glands need to be able to get back> into> > proper production> > timing.. then you have a it licked.. that's a> GOOD> > thing.> > > > Would like to hear other thoughts on the> Selenium.> > Since the Selenium is> > involved with improving thyroid hormone> > conversion... is it better to do> > it sooner, or later?> > > > I REALLY like that you know to do one item at a> > time. So that you can> > isolate what is doing what, be it good,> indifferent> > or bad. That's a hard> > thing to do, for me to... I want to start> everything> > right away and get> > better quicker.... but the fact is that it VERY> > rarely works that way...> > doing it one at a time you can see how your body> > responds to that thing,> > and that knowledge can point you toward other> things> > that might also help> > your body.> > > > I wish thyroid care was more like baking a> cake...> > measure all the> > ingredients correctly, mix and bake... wouldn't> that> > be cool? But,> > alas... all of us are in need of different> > ingredients and proportions> > cuz we're all baking different cakes!> > > > heheheh> > > > Topper ()> > > > On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:23:15 -0500 "Lori"> > <Freckly2 (AT) > writes:> > Hi ,> > Ok, for now I think I'm going to start with a B5> > supplement (250mg 2x per> > day) and B6 (50mg 2x per day) to help synergize> the> > B5. I'm also adding> > Vitamin C (2000mg per day). I am going to add> these> > "one at a time" to> > make sure I can handle them. Later I would like> to> > add 200mg of> > Selenium. The first few supplements, I have> read,> > are good for boosting> > adrenal activity. If these supplements aren't> doing> > the job I will then> > consider some adaptogenic herbs and see how they> > work. I want> > hydrocortisone to be a last resort, if you will.> > > > What do you think??> > Lori> > Day after day, day after day,> We stuck, nor breath nor motion;> As idle as a painted ship> Upon a painted ocean.> Water, water, everywhere,> And all the boards did shrink;> Water, water, everywhere,> Nor any drop to drink.> > ~The Ancient Mariner> > __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

--- Lori Freckly2@...> wrote:

> ~E,

> When you say " dips " do you mean the times when my

> cortisol level is depressed? At the 7-8am time and

> the 4-5pm time?

YES! This is one of the things people do. Mine just

trails off too much during the day, which for me might

mean just doing a couple isocort pellets a day. Maybe

one at 2 pm and another around 7 pm. You just really

want to avoid going too close to your bed-time. A

cortisol spike will keep you awake. If that

happens...you can take Seriphos or melatonin. I like

to take the melatonin to try and keep me on an even

keel.

I'm feeling better about

> this. I have to get out of the mind frame of " all or

> nothing " .

Right! You just need a couple rules for the road and

then the rest is really just an experiment. Nothing to

get worked up over and its the same thing a doc would

do anyway. THEY experiment on us. Why shouldn't we

take the time to check ourselves over to see what

agrees and just be responsible with it?

It may or may not work and if it doesn't

> it's OKAY to just try something else. Am I getting

> it???

YES...I do believe you do!

By the way, I just got my Armour and it

> STINKS really bad!!!

YES..that is great! After a while you get to love it

if it works for you.

I think I'll start it in the

> morning. I have to decrease my Levoxyl to half (per

> my doc) and add 1/2 grain of Armour a day. I wanted

> to start with 1/4 grain total but she said that was

> pretty low and said it would be ok to start with a

> half. She said even more would be ok, but I want to

> be successful on this, so taking it slowly is

> important to me.

This is good. Its just important to test after a

month to see how things feel and what the numbers look

like. When coming off t4 pill...you may get a dip in

your t4. IF you do and you get symptoms to go with

that....you may see that as indicator that you have

reduced your t4 pill too much. Most people need a

pretty good dose of t4...to feel well and Armour

doesn't always cover it. This highly individual, but

its still worth keeping an eye out for.

Lori..you are most welcome. Keep asking questions.

EVEN if one springs to mind in the middle of the

night. Just start typing. No matter how long you do

this...you will get little questions popping up.

Take care.

~E:)

Day after day, day after day,

We stuck, nor breath nor motion;

As idle as a painted ship

Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, everywhere,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, everywhere,

Nor any drop to drink.

~The Ancient Mariner

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail

[Guest guest]

~E,

Where do you get your Isocort (at what dose), and melatonin from, if you don't mind me asking?

I really appreciate you and SO VERY MUCH! You have given me a boost of confidence that everything will be ok.

Thanks, Lori

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

--- Lori <Freckly2 (AT) > wrote:> ~E,> When you say "dips" do you mean the times when my> cortisol level is depressed? At the 7-8am time and> the 4-5pm time? YES! This is one of the things people do. Mine justtrails off too much during the day, which for me mightmean just doing a couple isocort pellets a day. Maybeone at 2 pm and another around 7 pm. You just reallywant to avoid going too close to your bed-time. Acortisol spike will keep you awake. If thathappens...you can take Seriphos or melatonin. I liketo take the melatonin to try and keep me on an evenkeel. I'm feeling better about> this. I have to get out of the mind frame of "all or> nothing". Right! You just need a couple rules for the road andthen the rest is really just an experiment. Nothing toget worked up over and its the same thing a doc woulddo anyway. THEY experiment on us. Why shouldn't wetake the time to check ourselves over to see whatagrees and just be responsible with it? It may or may not work and if it doesn't> it's OKAY to just try something else. Am I getting> it??? YES...I do believe you do! By the way, I just got my Armour and it> STINKS really bad!!! YES..that is great! After a while you get to love itif it works for you.I think I'll start it in the> morning. I have to decrease my Levoxyl to half (per> my doc) and add 1/2 grain of Armour a day. I wanted> to start with 1/4 grain total but she said that was> pretty low and said it would be ok to start with a> half. She said even more would be ok, but I want to> be successful on this, so taking it slowly is> important to me. This is good. Its just important to test after amonth to see how things feel and what the numbers looklike. When coming off t4 pill...you may get a dip inyour t4. IF you do and you get symptoms to go withthat....you may see that as indicator that you havereduced your t4 pill too much. Most people need apretty good dose of t4...to feel well and Armourdoesn't always cover it. This highly individual, butits still worth keeping an eye out for. Lori..you are most welcome. Keep asking questions. EVEN if one springs to mind in the middle of thenight. Just start typing. No matter how long you dothis...you will get little questions popping up. Take care.~E:)Day after day, day after day,We stuck, nor breath nor motion;As idle as a painted shipUpon a painted ocean.Water, water, everywhere,And all the boards did shrink;Water, water, everywhere,Nor any drop to drink.~The Ancient Mariner__________________________________________________________No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail

[Guest guest]

Topper, are you saying that this adrenal supp has no hydrocortisone in it

(I've been back taking a tiny dose of it too, for the last few days or so)?

I thought that the gland contained anything that originally came with it.

If so, it would have small amts of hydrocortisone in it too. I know that

they can't market it as having a certain amt of anything, or it would

qualify as prescription status and take it off the market, but I thought

that it surely contained some hydrocortisone, since it is naturally

occurring in the gland itself. I know what the other ingredients are in it,

as far as fillers, and that isn't much, but I'm very concerned about it not

having hydrocortisone in it. That would be my main purpose for taking it.

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

> I use a whole desiccated adrenal, which happens to be OTC, no

> prescription required and doesn't have the 'shut down factor' of

> hydrocortisone.

[Guest guest]

I want to be careful in how I word this. Cuz of the regulation

crappola... so bear with me.

I found this company five years ago Back then they had pages and pages

and pages of information on their site. How their products were made, how

they were then processed, what was in them, how to take them How they

were used by your body, what they did for your body. How long to take

them.. They had anything and everything you wanted to know to make an

informed decision.

Then regulation reared it's head. They stripped the site bare of anything

that might cause them to be regulated or even monitored.

Basically. Consider how the thyroid powder used in Armour, and it's

clones, is made. Low temp freeze drying process that keeps all the

hormones found in the gland intact and usable. All the trace minerals and

such. All intact. The whole gland.

That's how this stuff is made. The whole gland. All the hormones. All the

trace elements. All intact and available for the body to pick and choose

what it wants or needs.

Hydrocortisone is one specific hormone. It, if used incorrectly, can

eventually shut the adrenals down... you know how all that works, I'm

sure. It's 'shut down factor' my wording, based on what I've read, has to

do with how it slows the function of the adrenal glands in all aspects of

their production leaving the body lacking in some of the other hormones.

It's so efficient at doing that that even 1% topical creams containing it

can only be used for limited times due to the risk to the adrenals.

My personal take, when I made my decision to go with a whole adrenal

glandular was based on how my body responded to a whole thyroid glandular

verses a single thyroid hormone (T4), give the body the smorgasbord of

all the components and hormones and let it suck up what it needs to help

itself.... just as the body can suck up the thyroid hormones that it

needs to be healthy again.

I have to be vague... but do you get the gist of what I'm saying? It's

ALL in there, for you body to take, or not take, as it chooses, without

shutting down the glands. using it as a first thing in the morning dose,

to ease 'first call' on the adrenals it becomes a support to them,

helping them out through their 'busy time' and letting them get some

rest, catch up, work at a more realistic pace. Without shutting them

down.

In my head I considered the dose to be the morning maid coming it to make

sure everything was in order for the day. You can laugh.. I started

giggling as I wrote that.. But that was how I looked at it when I took

the dose every day.

I stopped about 2 weeks ago. I think I'm okay now. It was a long road...

I stopped shortly before passed. That really stressed me out and I

started up again, as a precaution. But by then I'd had to drop my thyroid

dose pretty drastically cuz I was running low and wasn't able to get

more... I stayed on the adrenal through the time that I actually ran out

of thyroid and then got some in again, part of the thyroid dosing I'm

taking every day is coming from the same company as the adrenal, BTW. As

my thyroid dose as been coming up I started backing off on the adrenal

again until I was down to a quarter tab a couple of times a week and then

finally stopped.

One of the cool things about the company itself... the people. Many of

them take the products themselves. Can't go into specifics there, it's

stuff that I've talked about on the phone with them and in emails. I got

a call from them once on a Sunday. Their computers were down and they

were having trouble getting orders out, there was going to be a one week

delay, at that time all orders were processed and shipped on Mondays, and

the stuff arrived here, usually on a Thursday. So I timed things

according to that. It was awesome that they were calling to let me know

it would be a week late.. the problem was I didn't have enough thyroid

pills to last the extra week. The gal and I talked about that, that's

when I found out she was taking them too. She knew exactly what I was

concerned about. I thanked her again for calling me, said that I'd short

dose myself the cover the extra four days that I'd need to wait.

I was soo bummed.. but really surprised that they bothered to call.

Tuesday morning there was a knock a the door. UPS. With a package for me.

She had hand processed my order and shipped it overnight, making sure

that I got it before I had to short dose for too long.

Now.. is that customer service? Is that someone that actually

understands?

They started an affiliate program about a year ago. I can't join. Why?

Cuz if I join people might think I sing their praises to increase my

commission. Nope... I sing their praises cuz they saved my butt, in more

ways than one.....

I was using their thyroid tablets when I started self treating. It was

their thyroid that got me off crutches. That's how I know it works.

That's why I have no doubt in my mind that it's active product. If it

wasn't I wouldn't have been walking on my own again.

I'm done.

Did that answer your question, (and a bit more)?

Topper ()

On Sat, 12 May 2007 21:13:20 -0500 " " marin@...> writes:

> Topper, are you saying that this adrenal supp has no hydrocortisone

> in it

> (I've been back taking a tiny dose of it too, for the last few days

> or so)?

> I thought that the gland contained anything that originally came

> with it.

> If so, it would have small amts of hydrocortisone in it too. I know

> that

> they can't market it as having a certain amt of anything, or it

> would

> qualify as prescription status and take it off the market, but I

> thought

> that it surely contained some hydrocortisone, since it is naturally

>

> occurring in the gland itself. I know what the other ingredients

> are in it,

> as far as fillers, and that isn't much, but I'm very concerned about

> it not

> having hydrocortisone in it. That would be my main purpose for

> taking it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, yeh that answers it, I thought so. I know that they do state that it

has everything naturally occurring in it. I'm not on their thyroid supp,

rather back on the adrenal one, and it's strange----when I took this the

last time, I think over a yr ago, as I increased it to two quarter tabs, I

started getting some heart racing, just like I did when I went up to 2

grains of Armour and stayed there for almost 4 months, so I backed

completely off of it and had not taken it since then. However, I

reimplemented it over a week ago and have found that my reaction is

completely different than it was then, so I'm thinking that whatever it is

that I'm short on now, was something that I wasn't short on at that time, so

it just wasn't right for me then, but is now, if that makes any sense at

all. My gut is telling me that my own adrenal hormone balance has changed

drastically, who knows, maybe the tablet is carrying more of one of the

other adrenal hormones, maybe not much DHEA, and maybe a little more

cortisol, we don't know because they can't state it on there. Whatever the

difference is, it's now working VERY well for me, and I've not been

experiencing the fatigue that I was having, except when I repeatedly don't

get enough rest or something is worrying me that doesn't have an immediate

solution to it. Us thyroid-adrenal people just can't live any old way and

get away with it any more, so, if we're stretching it to the limit, we can't

expect for ANYthing to make up for that, since it's a very fragile thing, or

we're not completely optimized on something. It still escapes me as to what

that is for me. All I know is that I've actually been waking up, after

sleeping eNOUGH, without feeling nauseated, fatigued, flu-like symptoms,

etc.....You get the picture. I've only had this evening nausea about twice

since I've been taking it, and I don't know what that has to do with, but

it's much less often since the second 24 hr period that I reimplemented it

this time. I'm thinking that it's out and out hydrocortisone, since I have

a whole bottle of good quality DHEA (5 mgs) that I started taking, that's

gone to waste, since after being on IT for about 3 days or so, I got VERY

fatigued, breathing slow, depressed, etc.....Things that are hard to

describe....Just like I did when I had been on the Estrogel for about a week

or so. Maybe a tiny bit of testosterone that my body possibly needed, who

knows? Since they can't state it on there, then there's no way of knowing

unless I test for those things. Thinking on paper here, lol, I'm thinking

yes, cortisol and testosterone, since I don't do well on DHEA or the

Estrogel. Does that make sense? Yes, I remember when a company got in

trouble for that, and that the government was threatening them. You know

why THAT is. They are in bed with Big Pharma ya know. All I know is that I

have more energy than for the past 6 to 8 months or so. Whether that's a

quirk, I don't know.

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

>I want to be careful in how I word this. Cuz of the regulation

> crappola... so bear with me.

>

> I found this company five years ago Back then they had pages and pages

> and pages of information on their site. How their products were made, how

> they were then processed, what was in them, how to take them How they

> were used by your body, what they did for your body. How long to take

> them.. They had anything and everything you wanted to know to make an

> informed decision.

>

> Then regulation reared it's head. They stripped the site bare of anything

> that might cause them to be regulated or even monitored.

>

> Basically. Consider how the thyroid powder used in Armour, and it's

> clones, is made. Low temp freeze drying process that keeps all the

> hormones found in the gland intact and usable. All the trace minerals and

> such. All intact. The whole gland.

>

> That's how this stuff is made. The whole gland. All the hormones. All the

> trace elements. All intact and available for the body to pick and choose

> what it wants or needs.

>

> Hydrocortisone is one specific hormone. It, if used incorrectly, can

> eventually shut the adrenals down... you know how all that works, I'm

> sure. It's 'shut down factor' my wording, based on what I've read, has to

> do with how it slows the function of the adrenal glands in all aspects of

> their production leaving the body lacking in some of the other hormones.

>

> It's so efficient at doing that that even 1% topical creams containing it

> can only be used for limited times due to the risk to the adrenals.

>

> My personal take, when I made my decision to go with a whole adrenal

> glandular was based on how my body responded to a whole thyroid glandular

> verses a single thyroid hormone (T4), give the body the smorgasbord of

> all the components and hormones and let it suck up what it needs to help

> itself.... just as the body can suck up the thyroid hormones that it

> needs to be healthy again.

>

> I have to be vague... but do you get the gist of what I'm saying? It's

> ALL in there, for you body to take, or not take, as it chooses, without

> shutting down the glands. using it as a first thing in the morning dose,

> to ease 'first call' on the adrenals it becomes a support to them,

> helping them out through their 'busy time' and letting them get some

> rest, catch up, work at a more realistic pace. Without shutting them

> down.

>

> In my head I considered the dose to be the morning maid coming it to make

> sure everything was in order for the day. You can laugh.. I started

> giggling as I wrote that.. But that was how I looked at it when I took

> the dose every day.

>

> I stopped about 2 weeks ago. I think I'm okay now. It was a long road...

> I stopped shortly before passed. That really stressed me out and I

> started up again, as a precaution. But by then I'd had to drop my thyroid

> dose pretty drastically cuz I was running low and wasn't able to get

> more... I stayed on the adrenal through the time that I actually ran out

> of thyroid and then got some in again, part of the thyroid dosing I'm

> taking every day is coming from the same company as the adrenal, BTW. As

> my thyroid dose as been coming up I started backing off on the adrenal

> again until I was down to a quarter tab a couple of times a week and then

> finally stopped.

>

> One of the cool things about the company itself... the people. Many of

> them take the products themselves. Can't go into specifics there, it's

> stuff that I've talked about on the phone with them and in emails. I got

> a call from them once on a Sunday. Their computers were down and they

> were having trouble getting orders out, there was going to be a one week

> delay, at that time all orders were processed and shipped on Mondays, and

> the stuff arrived here, usually on a Thursday. So I timed things

> according to that. It was awesome that they were calling to let me know

> it would be a week late.. the problem was I didn't have enough thyroid

> pills to last the extra week. The gal and I talked about that, that's

> when I found out she was taking them too. She knew exactly what I was

> concerned about. I thanked her again for calling me, said that I'd short

> dose myself the cover the extra four days that I'd need to wait.

>

> I was soo bummed.. but really surprised that they bothered to call.

> Tuesday morning there was a knock a the door. UPS. With a package for me.

> She had hand processed my order and shipped it overnight, making sure

> that I got it before I had to short dose for too long.

>

> Now.. is that customer service? Is that someone that actually

> understands?

>

> They started an affiliate program about a year ago. I can't join. Why?

> Cuz if I join people might think I sing their praises to increase my

> commission. Nope... I sing their praises cuz they saved my butt, in more

> ways than one.....

>

> I was using their thyroid tablets when I started self treating. It was

> their thyroid that got me off crutches. That's how I know it works.

> That's why I have no doubt in my mind that it's active product. If it

> wasn't I wouldn't have been walking on my own again.

>

> I'm done.

>

> Did that answer your question, (and a bit more)?

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

Remember what happened to me when I first started taking it. I was a good

girl and started on half a tab. so as to not be too much..... I felt so

good I was getting a lot of stuff done and felt absolutely wonderful,

till I stared falling down and couldn't peel and apple or a potato.. and

that all boiled down to muscle exhaustion. It was replacing stuff that my

body needed, which was good, made me feel human again, but also made me

more active then my muscles hand the strength and endurance to keep up

with. I had to stop for a month before starting up again on 1/4 tab.

From there I gradually worked up to a tab and a half day. Held there for

maybe a year and then backed it off just as gradually until I was no

longer taking it... When passed I started taking it at the rate of

1/4 tab on days I was funky.. then, with my thyroid meds dropping I just

started taking the quarter tab daily again...

Now it's time to stop. I'm waking well. My mornings are going well. I'm

handling my days well. I didn't even cry myself to sleep last night over

what dear ole dad did.. just said {expletive deleted}, consider the

source... and went to sleep.

You know your adrenals are taking it when you can do that.

It is a balancing act. I was on DHEA for a while, too. That's when my

'grown up hair' came back ! hehehe I went through the first bottle... got

a second.. went through about half of that and just stopped, it was time.

Started it again last summer, from a few weeks before I actually ran out

of thyroid through a few weeks when I was back on.. and knew when it was

time to stop. I still have about five pills in that bottle .

I don't know, can't explain, what tells me when it's time to stop. the

same thing in me that suddenly had me eating soy nuts and broccoli like

they were chocolate when I was in storm I guess?? The same thing that had

me craving peanut butter and beans the last few years. Since I've been on

the extra folic acid instead of eating a jar of peanut butter in one

sitting, I have a jar here that I opened four or five weeks ago that

still has enough in it for a sandwich or two.

The body knows stuff, what it needs. We just have to figure out how to

understand it... or at least give in to what it's urging....

Topper ()

On Sun, 13 May 2007 21:39:02 -0500 " " marin@...> writes:

> Ok, yeh that answers it, I thought so. I know that they do state

> that it

> has everything naturally occurring in it. I'm not on their thyroid

> supp,

> rather back on the adrenal one, and it's strange----when I took this

> the

> last time, I think over a yr ago, as I increased it to two quarter

> tabs, I

> started getting some heart racing, just like I did when I went up to

> 2

> grains of Armour and stayed there for almost 4 months, so I backed

> completely off of it and had not taken it since then. However, I

> reimplemented it over a week ago and have found that my reaction is

>

> completely different than it was then, so I'm thinking that whatever

> it is

> that I'm short on now, was something that I wasn't short on at that

> time, so

> it just wasn't right for me then, but is now, if that makes any

> sense at

> all. My gut is telling me that my own adrenal hormone balance has

> changed

> drastically, who knows, maybe the tablet is carrying more of one of

> the

> other adrenal hormones, maybe not much DHEA, and maybe a little more

>

> cortisol, we don't know because they can't state it on there.

> Whatever the

> difference is, it's now working VERY well for me, and I've not been

>

> experiencing the fatigue that I was having, except when I repeatedly

> don't

> get enough rest or something is worrying me that doesn't have an

> immediate

> solution to it. Us thyroid-adrenal people just can't live any old

> way and

> get away with it any more, so, if we're stretching it to the limit,

> we can't

> expect for ANYthing to make up for that, since it's a very fragile

> thing, or

> we're not completely optimized on something. It still escapes me as

> to what

> that is for me. All I know is that I've actually been waking up,

> after

> sleeping eNOUGH, without feeling nauseated, fatigued, flu-like

> symptoms,

> etc.....You get the picture. I've only had this evening nausea about

> twice

> since I've been taking it, and I don't know what that has to do

> with, but

> it's much less often since the second 24 hr period that I

> reimplemented it

> this time. I'm thinking that it's out and out hydrocortisone, since

> I have

> a whole bottle of good quality DHEA (5 mgs) that I started taking,

> that's

> gone to waste, since after being on IT for about 3 days or so, I got

> VERY

> fatigued, breathing slow, depressed, etc.....Things that are hard to

>

> describe....Just like I did when I had been on the Estrogel for

> about a week

> or so. Maybe a tiny bit of testosterone that my body possibly

> needed, who

> knows? Since they can't state it on there, then there's no way of

> knowing

> unless I test for those things. Thinking on paper here, lol, I'm

> thinking

> yes, cortisol and testosterone, since I don't do well on DHEA or the

>

> Estrogel. Does that make sense? Yes, I remember when a company got

> in

> trouble for that, and that the government was threatening them. You

> know

> why THAT is. They are in bed with Big Pharma ya know. All I know

> is that I

> have more energy than for the past 6 to 8 months or so. Whether

> that's a

> quirk, I don't know.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, I remember very well. That had happened a very short time before I

joined the group. You had been feeling your cheerios, then crashed!

Re: Need advice/opinions please.....

> Remember what happened to me when I first started taking it. I was a good

> girl and started on half a tab. so as to not be too much..... I felt so

> good I was getting a lot of stuff done and felt absolutely wonderful,

> till I stared falling down and couldn't peel and apple or a potato.. and

> that all boiled down to muscle exhaustion. It was replacing stuff that my

> body needed, which was good, made me feel human again, but also made me

> more active then my muscles hand the strength and endurance to keep up

> with. I had to stop for a month before starting up again on 1/4 tab.

>

> From there I gradually worked up to a tab and a half day. Held there for

> maybe a year and then backed it off just as gradually until I was no

> longer taking it... When passed I started taking it at the rate of

> 1/4 tab on days I was funky.. then, with my thyroid meds dropping I just

> started taking the quarter tab daily again...

>

> Now it's time to stop. I'm waking well. My mornings are going well. I'm

> handling my days well. I didn't even cry myself to sleep last night over

> what dear ole dad did.. just said {expletive deleted}, consider the

> source... and went to sleep.

>

> You know your adrenals are taking it when you can do that.

>

> It is a balancing act. I was on DHEA for a while, too. That's when my

> 'grown up hair' came back ! hehehe I went through the first bottle... got

> a second.. went through about half of that and just stopped, it was time.

> Started it again last summer, from a few weeks before I actually ran out

> of thyroid through a few weeks when I was back on.. and knew when it was

> time to stop. I still have about five pills in that bottle .

>

> I don't know, can't explain, what tells me when it's time to stop. the

> same thing in me that suddenly had me eating soy nuts and broccoli like

> they were chocolate when I was in storm I guess?? The same thing that had

> me craving peanut butter and beans the last few years. Since I've been on

> the extra folic acid instead of eating a jar of peanut butter in one

> sitting, I have a jar here that I opened four or five weeks ago that

> still has enough in it for a sandwich or two.

>

> The body knows stuff, what it needs. We just have to figure out how to

> understand it... or at least give in to what it's urging....

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

I was a REAL person that month... it was wonderful... till I crashed..

literally, on the floor... couldn't walk down the hall.. my legs would

buckle and I'd go down in a heap.. that was when I thought I was finally

dying and got online looking for help..... met that night... and a

we got to talking off list.. got to be buds, two weeks later this group

was born.

... does that mean that there was a reason, that it was meant to be that I

botched up the adrenal, and now we are here???

Topper ()

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:57:41 -0500 " " marin@...> writes:

> Oh yes, I remember very well. That had happened a very short time

> before I

> joined the group. You had been feeling your cheerios, then

> crashed!

>

>

[Guest guest]

> .. does that mean that there was a reason, that it was meant to be that I

> botched up the adrenal, and now we are here???

>

> Topper ()

I have often said this, when it comes to this or these groups. I've said

that maybe mine was intended, or others, so that MANY others could get help.

That may seem a little twisted, but I believe that it's so. If someone

hasn't been there, how will they know what to say to someone else who JUST

got there. Networking is what I call it, lol. We don't always know what's

best for someone else, yet we all help work it out maybe by just something

we said or experienced. Life and people have many purposes for people

(certainly this isn't the only one), and I believe that this is a major one.

Sometimes I still get angry, thinking how much time has been consumed in

this, but it's as though it always comes back to this.