Air ambulance subscriptions program

[Guest guest]

You really can't put all helicopter services in the

same category - some even have air-conditioning. I

agree, there are services out there that fly in less

than optimal conditions and really dont play fair - we

all have those services in our regions! There are

also services that strive to hire great nurses/medics

have have excellent pilots!

I have also seen ground services that are not up to

par in more ways than one.

This sort of reminds me of the debate whether one

should see a DO or an MD.

You seem to like to put all of your eggs in one basket

and seem to be very narrow minded for such an

intellegent man!

Peggy

--- " Bledsoe, DO "

wrote:

> People are looking at the trees and not the forest.

> Consider this:

>

>

>

> 1. There is no significant body of scientific

> evidence that medical

> helicopters benefit most patients. Most trauma

> surgeons can count on one

> hand the number of patients who MIGHT have benefited

> from helicopter

> transport.

>

> 2. One of the major helicopter operators who sell

> subscriptions had their

> offices raided by the FBI and FAA with federal

> warrants alleging Medicare

> fraud.

>

> 3. That same operator has a questionable safety

> record with a recent crash

> (last week) in Mississippi.

>

> 4. The FAA has recommended improved safety devices

> for helicopters.

> Several operators, including the one whose offices

> were raided, have fought

> those changes. That same operator filed suit in

> Tennessee to keep the state

> from mandating improved standards (and won). They

> won because helicopters

> are covered under federal aviation laws that trump

> state laws.

>

> 5. We are seeing a decline in the quality of

> pilots, paramedics and nurses

> on many helicopters because there are so many

> operators now that the

> workforce is diluted.

>

> 6. I can go on until this list approaches 100.

>

>

>

> The question should not be about subscriptions and

> such-but more about why

> are we even using these services. They are more

> expensive and more dangerous

> that ground transport, they are taking money from

> ground EMS, they are

> uncomfortable (and in many cases not air

> conditioned), and they lack any

> significant empiric support of improvement in

> patient outcomes.

>

>

>

> These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

>

>

>

> BEB

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

Dang, I agree too, Dudley. This is scary.

-Wes

In a message dated 8/5/2007 11:27:37 PM Central Daylight Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

I do have to agree with here...Ground units were around a long time

before helicopters were even invented...although it does make one wonder how

they got the wounded off the battlefield in the Civil War....

There is a time and place for air medical resources and their use.

Unfortunately, they are WAY over utilized today...flying non-critical patients

because of convenience or some desire to save resources (using a more scarce

resource to keep a less scarce one available??? U

Here are some examples of what I mean:

1. An outlying hospital using a helicopter to fly a patient into a higher

level of care because the local ambulance won't take the long-distance

transfer (even though they are well qualified to do so) because the hospital

refuses

to provide any type of payment guarantee... An outlying hospital using a

helicopter to fly a patient into a higher level of care because the local

ambulance won't take the

2. EMS responds to a motorcycle vs. planet and requests a helicopter. The

helicopter lands, loads the patient (SMR, O2@ 15lpm, one IV TKO) and takes

off...they have to call report to the Level I hospital before take off since

their flight time is 2 minutes...yeah it actually takes longer to off-load the

patient than it does to fly them there (BTW, ground time is 5 to 6)

3. Flight crews have a lot of frustration flying to a suburban community

because they fly everything that cannot go to the local facility...regardle

Flight crews have Flight crews have a lot of frustration flying to a suburban

community because they fly everything that cannot go to the local

facility...regardle<WBR>ss of criticality.<WBR>.

4. Flight crews today are not the caliber they were 10 or 12 years

ago...much like major league baseball. In the late 70's you had to really have

talent to play professional baseball.... In the late 70's you had to really

have

talent to play professional baseball....<WBR>but now with 30 teams the Much

like flight services. A decade ago, getting a job on a helicopter was truly a

mark on a resume...now, because we have so many you can't swing a dead cat

without hitting one, the level of skills needed to work for one has had to

decrease so that staffing could be accomplished.

Although I rarely agree with Dr. Bledsoe (well really...I rarely agree with

anyone ), his point on Air Medical is right on target. We need federal

legislative changes that remove air medical helicopters from the same rules

that

affect Southwest Airlines, American, and Delta. They need their own

category of regulation and they need to be removed from under the federal rules

and

regs that they hide behind from the Federal Airline Deregulation days of

Reagan. The FAA needs to proclaim safety minimums and States need to

have

their Constitutional rights restored to regulate things within their

borders. This way the state could regulate them within their borders. THEN in

Texas we could set up areas (maybe 22 areas in Texas...man that number seems

familiar) and based upon a number of factors; certificates of need are let to

provide this service. This process should be re-done on a regular basis so all

aspects of the free-market economy still play into this, but it prevents

situations like some along the IH-35 corridor where we have some areas within

10

minutes of 6 or more helicopters. This process should be re-done on a regular

basis so all aspects of the free-market economy

This would help prevent any further watering down of the services air

medical resources are truly needed for...and allow true process improvement

processes to make sure these resources are used in the appropriate way...as the

fear

of losing a customer would be taken away if a flight was branded as

unnecessary.

Just my thoughts...everyone have a great week!!!!

Dudley

Air ambulance subscriptions

program

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Neither, air nor ground can function alone. My

thought is that we need eachother to operate and give

patients in our area excellent pre-hospital care!

Peggy

--- Hatfield wrote:

>

> 2 things

>

> 1) I would like a signature on your post

>

> 2) the common courtesy of at least contacting the

> local service prior to selling subscriptions in

> their area, regardless of their status

>

> Mike

>

>

>

>

> Hatfield FF/EMT-P

> www.canyonlakefire-ems.org

>

>

> Air ambulance subscriptions

> program

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

If relying on scientific research, makes you narrow minded ..you have a

LOT of company Mr. Bledson

RE: Air ambulance subscriptions program

You really can't put all helicopter services in the

same category - some even have air-conditioning. I

agree, there are services out there that fly in less

than optimal conditions and really dont play fair - we

all have those services in our regions! There are

also services that strive to hire great nurses/medics

have have excellent pilots!

I have also seen ground services that are not up to

par in more ways than one.

This sort of reminds me of the debate whether one

should see a DO or an MD.

You seem to like to put all of your eggs in one basket

and seem to be very narrow minded for such an

intellegent man!

Peggy

--- " Bledsoe, DO " <HYPERLINK

" mailto:bbledsoe%40earthlink.net " bbledsoe (AT) earthlink (DOT) -net>

wrote:

> People are looking at the trees and not the forest.

> Consider this:

>

>

>

> 1. There is no significant body of scientific

> evidence that medical

> helicopters benefit most patients. Most trauma

> surgeons can count on one

> hand the number of patients who MIGHT have benefited

> from helicopter

> transport.

>

> 2. One of the major helicopter operators who sell

> subscriptions had their

> offices raided by the FBI and FAA with federal

> warrants alleging Medicare

> fraud.

>

> 3. That same operator has a questionable safety

> record with a recent crash

> (last week) in Mississippi.

>

> 4. The FAA has recommended improved safety devices

> for helicopters.

> Several operators, including the one whose offices

> were raided, have fought

> those changes. That same operator filed suit in

> Tennessee to keep the state

> from mandating improved standards (and won). They

> won because helicopters

> are covered under federal aviation laws that trump

> state laws.

>

> 5. We are seeing a decline in the quality of

> pilots, paramedics and nurses

> on many helicopters because there are so many

> operators now that the

> workforce is diluted.

>

> 6. I can go on until this list approaches 100.

>

>

>

> The question should not be about subscriptions and

> such-but more about why

> are we even using these services. They are more

> expensive and more dangerous

> that ground transport, they are taking money from

> ground EMS, they are

> uncomfortable (and in many cases not air

> conditioned)-, and they lack any

> significant empiric support of improvement in

> patient outcomes.

>

>

>

> These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

>

>

>

> BEB

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

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HYPERLINK

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2:42 PM

[Guest guest]

Peggy,

Ground can function alone, we did it for years, until someone came along

and threw the helicopter into the civilian equation.

I flew for a couple of years in south Texas, and if I flew 1000

missions, 995 could have gone by ground. Herein lies my problem, of the

995 that we in the flight service knew didn’t need to fly, why did we do

nothing to educate the services that overused us? That continues on to

the flight services that sell subscriptions, how many of those

subscription flights will be unnecessary? At what risk? Who do you

educate then? The patient? They paid their money, they want to be flown.

The services? You sold subscriptions, they shouldn’t have to deal with

your dissatisfied customers.

If you can cite me studies showing the necessity of air transport, I

will be glad to look them over.

Mike

Air ambulance subscriptions

> program

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!

FareChase.

HYPERLINK " http://farechase.yahoo.com/ " http://farechase.-yahoo.com/

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2:42 PM

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2:42 PM

[Guest guest]

It is an MD/DO thing don't you see.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Hatfield

Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 8:33 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Air ambulance subscriptions program

If relying on scientific research, makes you narrow minded...you have a

LOT of company Mr. Bledson...

RE: Air ambulance subscriptions program

You really can't put all helicopter services in the

same category - some even have air-conditioning. I

agree, there are services out there that fly in less

than optimal conditions and really dont play fair - we

all have those services in our regions! There are

also services that strive to hire great nurses/medics

have have excellent pilots!

I have also seen ground services that are not up to

par in more ways than one.

This sort of reminds me of the debate whether one

should see a DO or an MD.

You seem to like to put all of your eggs in one basket

and seem to be very narrow minded for such an

intellegent man!

Peggy

--- " Bledsoe, DO " <HYPERLINK

" mailto:bbledsoe%40earthlink.net " bbledsoe (AT) earthlink (DOT) -net>

wrote:

> People are looking at the trees and not the forest.

> Consider this:

>

>

>

> 1. There is no significant body of scientific

> evidence that medical

> helicopters benefit most patients. Most trauma

> surgeons can count on one

> hand the number of patients who MIGHT have benefited

> from helicopter

> transport.

>

> 2. One of the major helicopter operators who sell

> subscriptions had their

> offices raided by the FBI and FAA with federal

> warrants alleging Medicare

> fraud.

>

> 3. That same operator has a questionable safety

> record with a recent crash

> (last week) in Mississippi.

>

> 4. The FAA has recommended improved safety devices

> for helicopters.

> Several operators, including the one whose offices

> were raided, have fought

> those changes. That same operator filed suit in

> Tennessee to keep the state

> from mandating improved standards (and won). They

> won because helicopters

> are covered under federal aviation laws that trump

> state laws.

>

> 5. We are seeing a decline in the quality of

> pilots, paramedics and nurses

> on many helicopters because there are so many

> operators now that the

> workforce is diluted.

>

> 6. I can go on until this list approaches 100.

>

>

>

> The question should not be about subscriptions and

> such-but more about why

> are we even using these services. They are more

> expensive and more dangerous

> that ground transport, they are taking money from

> ground EMS, they are

> uncomfortable (and in many cases not air

> conditioned)-, and they lack any

> significant empiric support of improvement in

> patient outcomes.

>

>

>

> These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

>

>

>

> BEB

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

HYPERLINK

" http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ " http://autos.-yahoo.com/-green_cen

ter/

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2:42 PM

[Guest guest]

Peggy:

Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between a DO and an MD?

What is the difference between a DDS and a DMD? Do people debate whether to

see a DDS or a DMD?

BEB.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of peggy wood

Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 7:27 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Air ambulance subscriptions program

You really can't put all helicopter services in the

same category - some even have air-conditioning. I

agree, there are services out there that fly in less

than optimal conditions and really dont play fair - we

all have those services in our regions! There are

also services that strive to hire great nurses/medics

have have excellent pilots!

I have also seen ground services that are not up to

par in more ways than one.

This sort of reminds me of the debate whether one

should see a DO or an MD.

You seem to like to put all of your eggs in one basket

and seem to be very narrow minded for such an

intellegent man!

Peggy

--- " Bledsoe, DO " <bbledsoe@...

<mailto:bbledsoe%40earthlink.net> >

wrote:

> People are looking at the trees and not the forest.

> Consider this:

>

>

>

> 1. There is no significant body of scientific

> evidence that medical

> helicopters benefit most patients. Most trauma

> surgeons can count on one

> hand the number of patients who MIGHT have benefited

> from helicopter

> transport.

>

> 2. One of the major helicopter operators who sell

> subscriptions had their

> offices raided by the FBI and FAA with federal

> warrants alleging Medicare

> fraud.

>

> 3. That same operator has a questionable safety

> record with a recent crash

> (last week) in Mississippi.

>

> 4. The FAA has recommended improved safety devices

> for helicopters.

> Several operators, including the one whose offices

> were raided, have fought

> those changes. That same operator filed suit in

> Tennessee to keep the state

> from mandating improved standards (and won). They

> won because helicopters

> are covered under federal aviation laws that trump

> state laws.

>

> 5. We are seeing a decline in the quality of

> pilots, paramedics and nurses

> on many helicopters because there are so many

> operators now that the

> workforce is diluted.

>

> 6. I can go on until this list approaches 100.

>

>

>

> The question should not be about subscriptions and

> such-but more about why

> are we even using these services. They are more

> expensive and more dangerous

> that ground transport, they are taking money from

> ground EMS, they are

> uncomfortable (and in many cases not air

> conditioned), and they lack any

> significant empiric support of improvement in

> patient outcomes.

>

>

>

> These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

>

>

>

> BEB

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________________

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit

the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

[Guest guest]

I do have to agree with here...Ground units were around a long time

before helicopters were even invented...although it does make one wonder how

they got the wounded off the battlefield in the Civil War....

There is a time and place for air medical resources and their use.Â

Unfortunately, they are WAY over utilized today...flying non-critical patients

because of convenience or some desire to save resources (using a more scarce

resource to keep a less scarce one available???)

Here are some examples of what I mean:

1. An outlying hospital using a helicopter to fly a patient into a higher

level of care because the local ambulance won't take the long-distance transfer

(even though they are well qualified to do so) because the hospital refuses to

provide any type of payment guarantee...and because of competition, the air

medical service won't require any payment guarantee b/c they don't want to lose

the business

2. EMS responds to a motorcycle vs. planet and requests a helicopter. The

helicopter lands, loads the patient (SMR, O2@ 15lpm, one IV TKO) and takes

off...they have to call report to the Level I hospital before take off since

their flight time is 2 minutes...yeah it actually takes longer to off-load the

patient than it does to fly them there (BTW, ground time is 5 to 6)

3. Flight crews have a lot of frustration flying to a suburban community

because they fly everything that cannot go to the local facility...regardless of

criticality...but the agency WILL NOT say anything because of 2 other flight

services willing to fly anything just waiting to take business away...so the

problem doesn't get addressed

4. Flight crews today are not the caliber they were 10 or 12 years ago...much

like major league baseball. In the late 70's you had to really have talent to

play professional baseball....but now with 30 teams the level of talent to make

it has gone down because the number of players has increased. Much like flight

services. A decade ago, getting a job on a helicopter was truly a mark on a

resume...now, because we have so many you can't swing a dead cat without hitting

one, the level of skills needed to work for one has had to decrease so that

staffing could be accomplished.Â

Although I rarely agree with Dr. Bledsoe (well really...I rarely agree with

anyone ), his point on Air Medical is right on target. We need federal

legislative changes that remove air medical helicopters from the same rules that

affect Southwest Airlines, American, and Delta. They need their own category

of regulation and they need to be removed from under the federal rules and regs

that they hide behind from the Federal Airline Deregulation days of

Reagan. The FAA needs to proclaim safety minimums and States need to have

their Constitutional rights restored to regulate things within their borders.Â

This way the state could regulate them within their borders. THEN in Texas we

could set up areas (maybe 22 areas in Texas...man that number seems familiar)

and based upon a number of factors; certificates of need are let to provide this

service. This process should be re-done on a regular basis so all aspects of

the free-market economy still play into this, but it prevents situations like

some along the IH-35 corridor where we have some areas within 10 minutes of 6 or

more helicopters...but we have some areas out west that are 45-60 minutes away

from any air medical resource.Â

This would help prevent any further watering down of the services air medical

resources are truly needed for...and allow true process improvement processes to

make sure these resources are used in the appropriate way...as the fear of

losing a customer would be taken away if a flight was branded as unnecessary.

Just my thoughts...everyone have a great week!!!!

Dudley

Air ambulance subscriptions

program

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

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:42 PM

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:42 PM

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[Guest guest]

Would the helicopters be state run?

Isn't there a Yankee state where the med helos are the state police helicopters?

Have state wide regulation & funding? Maybe even have nice equipment like A/C!?

(Troopers always have new cars and professional looking, neatly pressed

uniforms)

hmmmmm, a flight crew wearing cowboy hats & ropers......................

Red

Air ambulance subscriptions

program

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

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:42 PM

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[Guest guest]

What about BDS and BDent?

Red

RE: Air ambulance subscriptions program

You really can't put all helicopter services in the

same category - some even have air-conditioning. I

agree, there are services out there that fly in less

than optimal conditions and really dont play fair - we

all have those services in our regions! There are

also services that strive to hire great nurses/medics

have have excellent pilots!

I have also seen ground services that are not up to

par in more ways than one.

This sort of reminds me of the debate whether one

should see a DO or an MD.

You seem to like to put all of your eggs in one basket

and seem to be very narrow minded for such an

intellegent man!

Peggy

--- " Bledsoe, DO " <bbledsoe@...

<mailto:bbledsoe%40earthlink.net> >

wrote:

> People are looking at the trees and not the forest.

> Consider this:

>

>

>

> 1. There is no significant body of scientific

> evidence that medical

> helicopters benefit most patients. Most trauma

> surgeons can count on one

> hand the number of patients who MIGHT have benefited

> from helicopter

> transport.

>

> 2. One of the major helicopter operators who sell

> subscriptions had their

> offices raided by the FBI and FAA with federal

> warrants alleging Medicare

> fraud.

>

> 3. That same operator has a questionable safety

> record with a recent crash

> (last week) in Mississippi.

>

> 4. The FAA has recommended improved safety devices

> for helicopters.

> Several operators, including the one whose offices

> were raided, have fought

> those changes. That same operator filed suit in

> Tennessee to keep the state

> from mandating improved standards (and won). They

> won because helicopters

> are covered under federal aviation laws that trump

> state laws.

>

> 5. We are seeing a decline in the quality of

> pilots, paramedics and nurses

> on many helicopters because there are so many

> operators now that the

> workforce is diluted.

>

> 6. I can go on until this list approaches 100.

>

>

>

> The question should not be about subscriptions and

> such-but more about why

> are we even using these services. They are more

> expensive and more dangerous

> that ground transport, they are taking money from

> ground EMS, they are

> uncomfortable (and in many cases not air

> conditioned), and they lack any

> significant empiric support of improvement in

> patient outcomes.

>

>

>

> These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

>

>

>

> BEB

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________________

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit

the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

[Guest guest]

And speaking frontier gibberish, all with the last name of .

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of ReD

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:34 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Air ambulance subscriptions program

Would the helicopters be state run?

Isn't there a Yankee state where the med helos are the state police helicopters?

Have state wide regulation & funding? Maybe even have nice equipment like A/C!?

(Troopers always have new cars and professional looking, neatly pressed

uniforms)

hmmmmm, a flight crew wearing cowboy hats & ropers......................

Red

Air ambulance subscriptions

program

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:42 PM

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[Guest guest]

If we won't do it for EMS, will we do it for Randolph ?  Randolph !

-Wes

Re: Air ambulance subscriptions program

Would the helicopters be state run?

Isn't there a Yankee state where the med helos are the state police helicopters?

Have state wide regulation & funding? Maybe even have nice equipment like A/C!?

(Troopers always have new cars and professional looking, neatly pressed

uniforms)

hmmmmm, a flight crew wearing cowboy hats & ropers......................

Red

Air ambulance subscriptions

program

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

ooking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!

areChase.

YPERLINK " http://farechase.yahoo.com/ " http://farechase.-yahoo.com/

No virus found in this incoming message.

hecked by AVG Free Edition.

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:42 PM

o virus found in this outgoing message.

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:42 PM

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

Question;

How would a 2nd or 3rd tier agency be doing anything at the expense of the

volunteer or organized services?

If resources are scarce then the transfers are being done to assist the other

services.

OR are you talking about monies to support the services already in the area

being scarce?

Please clarify.

THEDUDMAN@... wrote:

I would want cooperation and teamwork between the local ground EMS

provider that is going to come out when I have abdominal pain at 0200 in the am

(or?when the life saving/death cheating helicopter is doing an inter-facility

transfer)?and the resources THAT agency has to best meet my needs.? The last

thing needed in an area where resources are scarce is a 2nd or 3rd tier agency

trying to take advantage of this situation to make money...at the expense of the

volunteer organization and the organized, coordinated EMS System.

Dudley

Air ambulance subscriptions program

The area we are talking about where this is being promoted is 15 minute

flight from the air base. The area has no full time EMS....the closest

EMS comes from 10-20 miles away and is primarely volunteer with no

paramedic guaranteed....What would you want if you had family living

there?

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[Guest guest]

Hey ! What's wrong with . : )

" Bledsoe, DO " wrote: And speaking

frontier gibberish, all with the last name of .

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of ReD

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:34 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Air ambulance subscriptions program

Would the helicopters be state run?

Isn't there a Yankee state where the med helos are the state police helicopters?

Have state wide regulation & funding? Maybe even have nice equipment like A/C!?

(Troopers always have new cars and professional looking, neatly pressed

uniforms)

hmmmmm, a flight crew wearing cowboy hats & ropers......................

Red

Air ambulance subscriptions

program

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

ooking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!

areChase.

YPERLINK " http://farechase.yahoo.com/ " http://farechase.-yahoo.com/

No virus found in this incoming message.

hecked by AVG Free Edition.

ersion: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/936 - Release Date: 8/4/2007

:42 PM

o virus found in this outgoing message.

hecked by AVG Free Edition.

ersion: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/936 - Release Date: 8/4/2007

:42 PM

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

Danny,

My comments were in regard to a volunteer or non-gov't subsidy agency where fund

raisers and donations are a large portion of the subsidy needed and received to

continue operations. When an outside agency (that is NOT the primary 911

responder...like an air medical provider OR a private ambulance provider wanting

to do transfers in the county) comes in and starts asking for money from this

jurisdiction, it is going to affect the volunteer or non-gov't subsidy 911

agency. There are only a certain amount of disposable income to go

around...and if an outside agency is trying to take some of that with NO

coordination with the local agency then it will have an affect.

In addition, the comment about inter-facility transfers was in reference to an

air medical provider who is " committed " to serving a county that they have

subscriptions in being not available when needed due to doing other work...face

it, no matter what...the ground ambulance is the work horse.Â

We all talk about lives saved and death cheated....but that is only during good

weather and cooperative mechanical conditions....otherwise, we are back to

relying on the ole ground AMBALANCE to be able to care and transport these poor

unfortunate souls.Â

Dudley

Air ambulance subscriptions program

The area we are talking about where this is being promoted is 15 minute

flight from the air base. The area has no full time EMS....the closest

EMS comes from 10-20 miles away and is primarely volunteer with no

paramedic guaranteed....What would you want if you had family living

there?

__________________________________________________________

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL

at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/2007 8:46:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

emsfire@... writes:

Isn't there a Yankee state where the med helos are the state police

helicopters?

NJ and MD both have state police operated services.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/2007 8:46:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

emsfire@... writes:

Have state wide regulation & funding? Maybe even have nice equipment like

A/C!? (Troopers always have new cars and professional looking, neatly pressed

uniforms)

In NJ the pilots are sworn Troopers, they fly a 2 pilot, one RN, one PM

configuration but last I spoke to anyone in the know most of the medical staff

were dual certified as CFPM and CFN. They operate on a statewide protocol and

again last I chatted (5 years ago mind you) they had RSI while the ground

Medics did not but that may have changed. I know it was a big issue for the

ground Medics a while back.

BTW, the NJSP considers itself to be the best dressed state police agency in

the US and rue the bad guy that makes a trooper mess his uniform up, shooting

at one is OK that's part of the game but make him mess up his uniform and

you will likely fall up the hill several times!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/7/2007 11:05:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

emsfire@... writes:

Do those services work well?

Always a matter of opinion but some would tout MD as the best HEMS system in

the US. Having never had to work with them I wil let anyone tht has worked

with or studied them answer that about MD.

I do have direct knowledge of the NJ system from its inception in fact as it

was just about the time I went into the Alarm Room (Countywide fire and EMS

Communications center) in the Southern part of NJ so I worked it from every

angle. The System was funded via a dedicated add on tax to motor vehicle

documents. There are 2 dedicated birds for this as well as non dedicated back

up

birds as a part of the State Police Aviation Unit. The birds are pretty much

as centrally located as you can be at the two level I trauma centers in the

state (note that NJ could fit into about 5 Texas Counties easily and it's long

and thin almost a rectangle). They have some fine Medics and flight nurses

and to my knowledge have never lost a bird to a crash in the over 25 years or

so they have been flying. The system had some stupid rules at the start then

they worked those out and overall from what I have seen and heard elsewhere

yes they work well.

Are the helicopters in the air alot for PD stuff? if so, that would mean a

lot faster ETA to the scene huh?

They fly dedicated MEDICAL birds for EMS and will only fly non MED jobs as a

secondary assignment but yea they are in the air a lot but many systems fly a

lot if they don't get hours as the pilots need a lot of stick time to get

their ratings. In LAFD every pilot fly his bird at least 2 hours per shift as

long as they can just to assure certifications and meeting internal

requirements.

what about if the police helo is aiding in the chase of say, and murder

suspect that killed police officers and it was called to a medical scene? do

the

medical calls ALWAYS take priority over police calls? I guess it would be a

good idea if that murder suspect crashed and was seriously injured, the helo

would be right there.

I am sure it has happened and in fact know it has happened where they were

assisting in searching for a known shooter of a NJSP Trooper, the suspect was

apprehended but was not injured seriously in that case so he went to the ED

via MY ground BLS ambulance. I had 3 Troopers in my bus and while I'm sure

they had their opinions of how this POS needed to be treated (picture your

stereo-typical drug dealing cop shooting scum bag) they never once violated his

rights. Given that I know more then a few NJSP Troopers and that I worked for

them as a CIV Instructor for HAZMAT and emergency management I can assure you

that just as I suspect nearly every Texas Trooper is a professional so would

the members of the NJSP HEMS units. Also as a clarification the Medical

components are paid by and are employees of the hospitals (Trauma Centers) that

are their Medical Control.

Red

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Guest guest]

Do those services work well?

Are the helicopters in the air alot for PD stuff? if so, that would mean a lot

faster ETA to the scene huh?

what about if the police helo is aiding in the chase of say, and murder suspect

that killed police officers and it was called to a medical scene? do the medical

calls ALWAYS take priority over police calls?

I guess it would be a good idea if that murder suspect crashed and was seriously

injured, the helo would be right there.

Red

Re: Air ambulance subscriptions program

In a message dated 8/6/2007 8:46:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

emsfire@... writes:

Isn't there a Yankee state where the med helos are the state police

helicopters?

NJ and MD both have state police operated services.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

(Home Phone)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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