Guest guest Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 http://tinyurl.com/9pannm Jim< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 > > http://tinyurl.com/9pannm > > > > Jim< > The January/February 2009 Texas EMS magazine shows the pass rates for the 2008 statistics for first attempts at the pass rate for the NR paramedic exam. It is a 60% for Texas but an overall 2008 national pass rate is listed as an 80%. I would say this is a huge factor in our shortage of paramedics. I remember when the state administered the exam it was around 84% pass rate on first attempts. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 I believe the pass rate is low because we set ourselves up for failure by adopting a 624 clock hour paramedic class. The Texas Administrative Code requirements for a paramedic class are: " 4) Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic (EMT-P). (A) The minimum curriculum shall include all content required by the current national paramedic education standards and competencies as defined by DOT. ( The course shall include a minimum of 624 clock hours of classroom, laboratory, clinical and field instruction which shall include supervised experiences in the emergency department with a licensed EMS provider and in other settings as needed to develop the competencies defined in the minimum curriculum. © Certification as an EMT-Basic shall be required prior to beginning field and clinical rotations in an EMT-P course. " The DOT Curriculum states: " The emphasis of paramedic education should be competence of the graduate, not the amount of education that they receive. The time involved in educating a paramedic to an acceptable level of competence depends on many variables. Based on the experience in the pilot and field testing of this curriculum, it is expected that the average program, with average students, will achieve average results in approximately 1000-1200 hours of instruction. The length of this course will vary according to a number of factors, including, but not limited to: -student=s basic academic skills competence -faculty to student ratio -student motivation -the student=s prior emergency/health care experience -prior academic achievements -clinical and academic resources available -quality of the overall educational program Appendix D is a summary of the time that each of the eight field test sites needed to cover a draft of the curriculum. These times are meant only as a guide to help in program planning. Training institutes MUST adjust these times based on their individual needs, goals and objectives. These times are only recommendations, and should NOT be interpreted as minimums or maximums. Those agencies responsible for program oversight are cautioned against using these hours as a measure of program quality or having satisfied minimum standards. Competence of the graduate, not adherence to arbitrary time frames, is the only measure of program quality. " (I added the bold to emphasize my point.) The DOT Curriculum is based on a student completing the objectives, not on an arbitrary amount of time in class. The pilot study of 8 classes had the time necessary to be competent in all the objectives from 624 to 2500 hours based on the student's ability. After much discussion Texas adopted a time of 624 hours to be competent. I wish all our students were like the best student in the pilot classes but I do not think that is the case. There were lively discussions about the time requirements. Proponents of the 624 hour class used the rational that a longer class would reduce the amount of students that would enter paramedic training and would be cost prohibitive to employers, especially the fire service. Educators wanted the class to be objective based, not time based. As an educator I know how difficult it is to add hours above the required minimums. Students and educational institution administrators do not like the added time or cost. The proponents of the 624 clock hour came out on top. When the state administered the test it was balanced against a 400 clock hour class with objectives set forth by the state. Educators submitted pilot questions to the state for use in the state test question database. Comparing the old state test pass rate to the NREMT pass rate is like the old saying of comparing apples to oranges. Why we have a shortage is another discussion. Randy E. RN, LP From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:12 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage > > http://tinyurl.com/9pannm > > > > Jim< > The January/February 2009 Texas EMS magazine shows the pass rates for the 2008 statistics for first attempts at the pass rate for the NR paramedic exam. It is a 60% for Texas but an overall 2008 national pass rate is listed as an 80%. I would say this is a huge factor in our shortage of paramedics. I remember when the state administered the exam it was around 84% pass rate on first attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I am not aware of any programs in Texas that actually do a 624 hr program are you? Most programs I am aware of are in the neighborhood of 1000-1200hrs. Lee From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Randy E. Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:43 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage I believe the pass rate is low because we set ourselves up for failure by adopting a 624 clock hour paramedic class. The Texas Administrative Code requirements for a paramedic class are: " 4) Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic (EMT-P). (A) The minimum curriculum shall include all content required by the current national paramedic education standards and competencies as defined by DOT. ( The course shall include a minimum of 624 clock hours of classroom, laboratory, clinical and field instruction which shall include supervised experiences in the emergency department with a licensed EMS provider and in other settings as needed to develop the competencies defined in the minimum curriculum. © Certification as an EMT-Basic shall be required prior to beginning field and clinical rotations in an EMT-P course. " The DOT Curriculum states: " The emphasis of paramedic education should be competence of the graduate, not the amount of education that they receive. The time involved in educating a paramedic to an acceptable level of competence depends on many variables. Based on the experience in the pilot and field testing of this curriculum, it is expected that the average program, with average students, will achieve average results in approximately 1000-1200 hours of instruction. The length of this course will vary according to a number of factors, including, but not limited to: -student=s basic academic skills competence -faculty to student ratio -student motivation -the student=s prior emergency/health care experience -prior academic achievements -clinical and academic resources available -quality of the overall educational program Appendix D is a summary of the time that each of the eight field test sites needed to cover a draft of the curriculum. These times are meant only as a guide to help in program planning. Training institutes MUST adjust these times based on their individual needs, goals and objectives. These times are only recommendations, and should NOT be interpreted as minimums or maximums. Those agencies responsible for program oversight are cautioned against using these hours as a measure of program quality or having satisfied minimum standards. Competence of the graduate, not adherence to arbitrary time frames, is the only measure of program quality. " (I added the bold to emphasize my point.) The DOT Curriculum is based on a student completing the objectives, not on an arbitrary amount of time in class. The pilot study of 8 classes had the time necessary to be competent in all the objectives from 624 to 2500 hours based on the student's ability. After much discussion Texas adopted a time of 624 hours to be competent. I wish all our students were like the best student in the pilot classes but I do not think that is the case. There were lively discussions about the time requirements. Proponents of the 624 hour class used the rational that a longer class would reduce the amount of students that would enter paramedic training and would be cost prohibitive to employers, especially the fire service. Educators wanted the class to be objective based, not time based. As an educator I know how difficult it is to add hours above the required minimums. Students and educational institution administrators do not like the added time or cost. The proponents of the 624 clock hour came out on top. When the state administered the test it was balanced against a 400 clock hour class with objectives set forth by the state. Educators submitted pilot questions to the state for use in the state test question database. Comparing the old state test pass rate to the NREMT pass rate is like the old saying of comparing apples to oranges. Why we have a shortage is another discussion. Randy E. RN, LP From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:12 AM To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage > > http://tinyurl.com/9pannm > > > > Jim< > The January/February 2009 Texas EMS magazine shows the pass rates for the 2008 statistics for first attempts at the pass rate for the NR paramedic exam. It is a 60% for Texas but an overall 2008 national pass rate is listed as an 80%. I would say this is a huge factor in our shortage of paramedics. I remember when the state administered the exam it was around 84% pass rate on first attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I am sure they are out there, Lee. You know as well as I do that if there is a shortcut out there, some people will demand it - typically the ones who hold the purse strings that pay for it. Jane Dinsmore To: texasems-l@...: L@...: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:26:46 -0600Subject: RE: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage I am not aware of any programs in Texas that actually do a 624 hr programare you? Most programs I am aware of are in the neighborhood of1000-1200hrs.LeeFrom: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] OnBehalf Of Randy E. Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:43 PMTo: texasems-l@...: RE: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout OnShortageI believe the pass rate is low because we set ourselves up for failure byadopting a 624 clock hour paramedic class.The Texas Administrative Code requirements for a paramedic class are: " 4) Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic (EMT-P). (A) The minimum curriculum shall include all content required by thecurrent national paramedic education standards and competencies as definedby DOT. ( The course shall include a minimum of 624 clock hours of classroom,laboratory, clinical and field instruction which shall include supervisedexperiences in the emergency department with a licensed EMS provider and inother settings as needed to develop the competencies defined in the minimumcurriculum. © Certification as an EMT-Basic shall be required prior to beginningfield and clinical rotations in an EMT-P course. " The DOT Curriculum states: " The emphasis of paramedic education should be competence of the graduate,not the amount of education that they receive. The time involved ineducating a paramedic to an acceptable level of competence depends on manyvariables. Based on the experience in the pilot and field testing of thiscurriculum, it is expected that the average program, with average students,will achieve average results in approximately 1000-1200 hours ofinstruction. The length of this course will vary according to a number offactors, including, but not limited to: -student=s basic academic skills competence -faculty to student ratio -student motivation -the student=s prior emergency/health care experience -prior academic achievements -clinical and academic resources available -quality of the overall educational program Appendix D is a summary of the time that each of the eight field test sitesneeded to cover a draft of the curriculum. These times are meant only as aguide to help in program planning. Training institutes MUST adjust thesetimes based on their individual needs, goals and objectives. These times areonly recommendations, and should NOT be interpreted as minimums or maximums.Those agencies responsible for program oversight are cautioned against usingthese hours as a measure of program quality or having satisfied minimumstandards. Competence of the graduate, not adherence to arbitrary timeframes, is the only measure of program quality. " (I added the bold toemphasize my point.)The DOT Curriculum is based on a student completing the objectives, not onan arbitrary amount of time in class. The pilot study of 8 classes had thetime necessary to be competent in all the objectives from 624 to 2500 hoursbased on the student's ability. After much discussion Texas adopted a timeof 624 hours to be competent. I wish all our students were like the beststudent in the pilot classes but I do not think that is the case. There were lively discussions about the time requirements. Proponents ofthe 624 hour class used the rational that a longer class would reduce theamount of students that would enter paramedic training and would be costprohibitive to employers, especially the fire service. Educators wanted theclass to be objective based, not time based. As an educator I know howdifficult it is to add hours above the required minimums. Students andeducational institution administrators do not like the added time or cost.The proponents of the 624 clock hour came out on top.When the state administered the test it was balanced against a 400 clockhour class with objectives set forth by the state. Educators submittedpilot questions to the state for use in the state test question database.Comparing the old state test pass rate to the NREMT pass rate is like theold saying of comparing apples to oranges.Why we have a shortage is another discussion.Randy E. RN, LPFrom: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ]OnBehalf Of Tom Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:12 AMTo: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout OnShortage>> http://tinyurl.com/9pannm> > > > Jim<> The January/February 2009 Texas EMS magazine shows the pass rates for the 2008 statistics for first attempts at the pass rate for the NR paramedic exam. It is a 60% for Texas but an overall 2008 national pass rate is listed as an 80%. I would say this is a huge factor in our shortage of paramedics. I remember when the state administered the exam it was around 84% pass rate on first attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Yes, TEEX does the 624 and out the door program. Tim ________________________________________ From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Lee [L@...] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:26 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage I am not aware of any programs in Texas that actually do a 624 hr program are you? Most programs I am aware of are in the neighborhood of 1000-1200hrs. Lee From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Randy E. Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:43 PM To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage I believe the pass rate is low because we set ourselves up for failure by adopting a 624 clock hour paramedic class. The Texas Administrative Code requirements for a paramedic class are: " 4) Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic (EMT-P). (A) The minimum curriculum shall include all content required by the current national paramedic education standards and competencies as defined by DOT. ( The course shall include a minimum of 624 clock hours of classroom, laboratory, clinical and field instruction which shall include supervised experiences in the emergency department with a licensed EMS provider and in other settings as needed to develop the competencies defined in the minimum curriculum. © Certification as an EMT-Basic shall be required prior to beginning field and clinical rotations in an EMT-P course. " The DOT Curriculum states: " The emphasis of paramedic education should be competence of the graduate, not the amount of education that they receive. The time involved in educating a paramedic to an acceptable level of competence depends on many variables. Based on the experience in the pilot and field testing of this curriculum, it is expected that the average program, with average students, will achieve average results in approximately 1000-1200 hours of instruction. The length of this course will vary according to a number of factors, including, but not limited to: -student=s basic academic skills competence -faculty to student ratio -student motivation -the student=s prior emergency/health care experience -prior academic achievements -clinical and academic resources available -quality of the overall educational program Appendix D is a summary of the time that each of the eight field test sites needed to cover a draft of the curriculum. These times are meant only as a guide to help in program planning. Training institutes MUST adjust these times based on their individual needs, goals and objectives. These times are only recommendations, and should NOT be interpreted as minimums or maximums. Those agencies responsible for program oversight are cautioned against using these hours as a measure of program quality or having satisfied minimum standards. Competence of the graduate, not adherence to arbitrary time frames, is the only measure of program quality. " (I added the bold to emphasize my point.) The DOT Curriculum is based on a student completing the objectives, not on an arbitrary amount of time in class. The pilot study of 8 classes had the time necessary to be competent in all the objectives from 624 to 2500 hours based on the student's ability. After much discussion Texas adopted a time of 624 hours to be competent. I wish all our students were like the best student in the pilot classes but I do not think that is the case. There were lively discussions about the time requirements. Proponents of the 624 hour class used the rational that a longer class would reduce the amount of students that would enter paramedic training and would be cost prohibitive to employers, especially the fire service. Educators wanted the class to be objective based, not time based. As an educator I know how difficult it is to add hours above the required minimums. Students and educational institution administrators do not like the added time or cost. The proponents of the 624 clock hour came out on top. When the state administered the test it was balanced against a 400 clock hour class with objectives set forth by the state. Educators submitted pilot questions to the state for use in the state test question database. Comparing the old state test pass rate to the NREMT pass rate is like the old saying of comparing apples to oranges. Why we have a shortage is another discussion. Randy E. RN, LP From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:12 AM To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Texas Association Blames Paramedic Burnout On Shortage > > http://tinyurl.com/9pannm > > > > Jim< > The January/February 2009 Texas EMS magazine shows the pass rates for the 2008 statistics for first attempts at the pass rate for the NR paramedic exam. It is a 60% for Texas but an overall 2008 national pass rate is listed as an 80%. I would say this is a huge factor in our shortage of paramedics. I remember when the state administered the exam it was around 84% pass rate on first attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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