Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 but Mike you are on insulin couldnt the insulin rather than the diet be the trick. sharon Re: ADA food pyramid > > Has anyone seen this food pyramid? Does anyone use it? And has anyone > with type 2 diabetes actually lowered their blood glucose levels using > this food plan? I can't believe how archaic this plan is...potatoes > have recently been shown to increase your risk of getting type 2 > diabetes! I follow my food plan as defined by the dietitian. It's based upon this food pyramid. My last A1C was 5.3. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 > > but Mike you are on insulin couldnt the insulin rather than the diet be > the > trick. Just because I take insulin doesn't mean that the nutritional needs of my body are different. It means that my body has a problem that prevents it from using the food consumed the way a normal person does. This means I can do one of two things. I can either eat a drastically restricted diet, be miserable feeling that I'm being deprived and not being able to eat reasonable portions of foods that I love (that aren't necessarily unhealthy foods, like sweet potatoes, baked potatoes, hearty fresh baked multigrain bread and fruits... all in resonable portions in a balanced diet), and obsess about how much three blueberries raise my blood sugar, OR.... I can eat a properly balanced diet that counts carbs and includes the carbs, veggies, proteins and dairy products (and healthy fats) that are appropriate for my body type and activity level and add insulin as necessary to maintain a healthy blood sugar level. (And if it weren't insulin, it would be metformin, or glyburide or whatever other medication necessary to make the insulin produced effective or to stimulate the production of additional insulin). If diabetes were presented as the inability to process oxygen instead of glucose... would we run around and tell people not to breathe? Or tell them to never exercise to prevent increased respiration? Or would we have them take the appropriate medication to allow the body to use the oxygen they breathe? True, we wouldn't advocate they go to an 'oxygen bar' and sit there and inhale pure oxygen, but I'll guarantee you that there would be those who would advocate things like: -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate -nutritional supplements that bind oxygen -or, mechanical devices that reduce the amount of oxygen in the air you breathe... Regardless of whether these things worked or if they were healthy... But that's just my two cents... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Hello Mike Are you type 1 or type 2 diabetes? > > > > but Mike you are on insulin couldnt the insulin rather than the diet be > > the > > trick. > > > Just because I take insulin doesn't mean that the nutritional needs of my > body are different. It means that my body has a problem that prevents it > from using the food consumed the way a normal person does. > > This means I can do one of two things. I can either eat a drastically > restricted diet, be miserable feeling that I'm being deprived and not being > able to eat reasonable portions of foods that I love (that aren't > necessarily unhealthy foods, like sweet potatoes, baked potatoes, hearty > fresh baked multigrain bread and fruits... all in resonable portions in a > balanced diet), and obsess about how much three blueberries raise my blood > sugar, OR.... > > I can eat a properly balanced diet that counts carbs and includes the carbs, > veggies, proteins and dairy products (and healthy fats) that are appropriate > for my body type and activity level and add insulin as necessary to maintain > a healthy blood sugar level. (And if it weren't insulin, it would be > metformin, or glyburide or whatever other medication necessary to make the > insulin produced effective or to stimulate the production of additional > insulin). > > If diabetes were presented as the inability to process oxygen instead of > glucose... would we run around and tell people not to breathe? Or tell them > to never exercise to prevent increased respiration? Or would we have them > take the appropriate medication to allow the body to use the oxygen they > breathe? > True, we wouldn't advocate they go to an 'oxygen bar' and sit there and > inhale pure oxygen, but I'll guarantee you that there would be those who > would advocate things like: > -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate > -nutritional supplements that bind oxygen > -or, mechanical devices that reduce the amount of oxygen in the air you > breathe... > Regardless of whether these things worked or if they were healthy... > > But that's just my two cents... > > Mike > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Mike wrote: > Just because I take insulin doesn't mean that the nutritional needs of my > body are different. It means that my body has a problem that prevents it > from using the food consumed the way a normal person does. I've been a T2 since 1981 and I stopped counting carbs and calories a long time ago. Now my diet is intuitive because I have an inbuilt meter which knows instinctively what I can and shouldn't eat, and I do like to eat. That coupled with 'eat less and less often' seems to suit my insulin regime and keep my BG's and weight within reasonable parameters. But of course I realise that won't do for everyone and we all have to start somewhere although I have always tried to stop myself getting paranoid about it. I live with diabetes and notwithstanding, I still enjoy a good quality of life. Diabetes came down both sides of my family so what chance did I have. -- Take care. Barry UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Mike, I use " -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate " called Resp (AT) rate (DOT) It does work to reduce blood pressure. It is approved by FDA, and was tested by Rush Medical Center and Hopkins and given a good review. S Wilkinson, Rome, New York Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike > > but Mike you are on insulin couldnt the insulin rather than the diet > be the trick. Just because I take insulin doesn't mean that the nutritional needs of my body are different. It means that my body has a problem that prevents it from using the food consumed the way a normal person does. This means I can do one of two things. I can either eat a drastically restricted diet, be miserable feeling that I'm being deprived and not being able to eat reasonable portions of foods that I love (that aren't necessarily unhealthy foods, like sweet potatoes, baked potatoes, hearty fresh baked multigrain bread and fruits... all in resonable portions in a balanced diet), and obsess about how much three blueberries raise my blood sugar, OR.... I can eat a properly balanced diet that counts carbs and includes the carbs, veggies, proteins and dairy products (and healthy fats) that are appropriate for my body type and activity level and add insulin as necessary to maintain a healthy blood sugar level. (And if it weren't insulin, it would be metformin, or glyburide or whatever other medication necessary to make the insulin produced effective or to stimulate the production of additional insulin). If diabetes were presented as the inability to process oxygen instead of glucose... would we run around and tell people not to breathe? Or tell them to never exercise to prevent increased respiration? Or would we have them take the appropriate medication to allow the body to use the oxygen they breathe? True, we wouldn't advocate they go to an 'oxygen bar' and sit there and inhale pure oxygen, but I'll guarantee you that there would be those who would advocate things like: -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate -nutritional supplements that bind oxygen -or, mechanical devices that reduce the amount of oxygen in the air you breathe... Regardless of whether these things worked or if they were healthy... But that's just my two cents... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 ... apparently you missed the sarcasm.... I know biofeedback can reduce blood pressure... > > Mike, I use " -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate " called Resp@rate > . > It does work to reduce blood pressure. It is approved by FDA, and was > tested > by Rush Medical Center and Hopkins and given a good review. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 > > Hello Mike > > Are you type 1 or type 2 diabetes? I am Type 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 No Mike I am just dense. S Wilkinson, Rome, New York Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike ... apparently you missed the sarcasm.... I know biofeedback can reduce blood pressure... > > Mike, I use " -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate " called > Resp@rate . It does work to reduce blood pressure. It is approved by > FDA, and was tested > by Rush Medical Center and Hopkins and given a good review. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 No but those of us not on insulin such as I have trouble with the high carbs on the pyramid and have to watch our carbs shoot even with metformin I cant handle that many carbs. Unless I am mistaken insulin helps tremendously with all the carbs on the ADA and food pyramid. sharon Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike > > but Mike you are on insulin couldnt the insulin rather than the diet be > the > trick. Just because I take insulin doesn't mean that the nutritional needs of my body are different. It means that my body has a problem that prevents it from using the food consumed the way a normal person does. This means I can do one of two things. I can either eat a drastically restricted diet, be miserable feeling that I'm being deprived and not being able to eat reasonable portions of foods that I love (that aren't necessarily unhealthy foods, like sweet potatoes, baked potatoes, hearty fresh baked multigrain bread and fruits... all in resonable portions in a balanced diet), and obsess about how much three blueberries raise my blood sugar, OR.... I can eat a properly balanced diet that counts carbs and includes the carbs, veggies, proteins and dairy products (and healthy fats) that are appropriate for my body type and activity level and add insulin as necessary to maintain a healthy blood sugar level. (And if it weren't insulin, it would be metformin, or glyburide or whatever other medication necessary to make the insulin produced effective or to stimulate the production of additional insulin). If diabetes were presented as the inability to process oxygen instead of glucose... would we run around and tell people not to breathe? Or tell them to never exercise to prevent increased respiration? Or would we have them take the appropriate medication to allow the body to use the oxygen they breathe? True, we wouldn't advocate they go to an 'oxygen bar' and sit there and inhale pure oxygen, but I'll guarantee you that there would be those who would advocate things like: -biofeedback to reduce the respiration rate -nutritional supplements that bind oxygen -or, mechanical devices that reduce the amount of oxygen in the air you breathe... Regardless of whether these things worked or if they were healthy... But that's just my two cents... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Hello Sharon You are right of course. Insulin injections are very helpful for eating carbs. The trick is to avoid needing insulin eventually by not using too much insulin from your pancreas, and you can do this by avoiding starches and sugars. Even bananas can send your blood glucose up...they are the sweets of the fruit world. If you would like to see an article on eating with type 2 diabetes (which is so radically different from type 1 - the cause and pathology are very different) go to http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi? C=243142. It is a bit radical, but outlines the differences in the types of diabetes and why they need to be treated with different diets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 The link gave me a blank page with just a banner at the top Love sue n xxx http://community.webshots.com/user/sue_nicholson2002 http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/FeatherSaturnweb/ http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sue_nicholson2002/my_photos http://community.webshots.com/user/FeatherSaturnweb2002 -- Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike Hello Sharon You are right of course. Insulin injections are very helpful for eating carbs. The trick is to avoid needing insulin eventually by not using too much insulin from your pancreas, and you can do this by avoiding starches and sugars. Even bananas can send your blood glucose up...they are the sweets of the fruit world. If you would like to see an article on eating with type 2 diabetes (which is so radically different from type 1 - the cause and pathology are very different) go to http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi? C=243142. It is a bit radical, but outlines the differences in the types of diabetes and why they need to be treated with different diets. Diabetes homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetes/ To unsubscribe to this group, send an email to: diabetes-unsubscribe Hope you come back soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Sorry Sue, I can't seem to get this link right. Try this: http://ezinearticles.com/?Eating-With-Type-2- Diabetes&id=247563 > > The link gave me a blank page with just a banner at the top > Love sue n xxx > > http://community.webshots.com/user/sue_nicholson2002 > http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/FeatherSaturnweb/ > http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sue_nicholson2002/my_photos > http://community.webshots.com/user/FeatherSaturnweb2002 > -- Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike > > Hello Sharon > > You are right of course. Insulin injections are very helpful for > eating carbs. The trick is to avoid needing insulin eventually by > not using too much insulin from your pancreas, and you can do this > by avoiding starches and sugars. Even bananas can send your blood > glucose up...they are the sweets of the fruit world. If you would > like to see an article on eating with type 2 diabetes (which is so > radically different from type 1 - the cause and pathology are very > different) go to http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi? > C=243142. It is a bit radical, but outlines the differences in the > types of diabetes and why they need to be treated with different > diets. > > > > > > > > Diabetes homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetes/ > > To unsubscribe to this group, send an email to: > diabetes-unsubscribe > Hope you come back soon! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Hello again...I think the url is too long, so have added it as a link. Hope this helps! > > The link gave me a blank page with just a banner at the top > Love sue n xxx > > http://community.webshots.com/user/sue_nicholson2002 > http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/FeatherSaturnweb/ > http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sue_nicholson2002/my_photos > http://community.webshots.com/user/FeatherSaturnweb2002 > -- Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike > > Hello Sharon > > You are right of course. Insulin injections are very helpful for > eating carbs. The trick is to avoid needing insulin eventually by > not using too much insulin from your pancreas, and you can do this > by avoiding starches and sugars. Even bananas can send your blood > glucose up...they are the sweets of the fruit world. If you would > like to see an article on eating with type 2 diabetes (which is so > radically different from type 1 - the cause and pathology are very > different) go to http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi? > C=243142. It is a bit radical, but outlines the differences in the > types of diabetes and why they need to be treated with different > diets. > > > > > > > > Diabetes homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetes/ > > To unsubscribe to this group, send an email to: > diabetes-unsubscribe > Hope you come back soon! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 > > No but those of us not on insulin such as I have trouble with the high > carbs > on the pyramid and have to watch our carbs shoot even with metformin I > cant > handle that many carbs. Unless I am mistaken insulin helps tremendously > with all the carbs on the ADA and food pyramid. Sharon, I'm taking insulin because I'm allergic to glyburide and because metformin was not the solution to my diabetes. I don't take insulin to allow me to eat more than I need. I take it to add the amount of insulin to my body that would have been produced if I could take glyburide... or to let it function as it would if metformin worked for me. It doesn't make any difference if I take insulin, or oral medications. They all are designed to meet the same end... allow the body to function as closely to normal as possible. Now, if I were just sitting around here thinking " I want to eat that... it's got x carbs, so I need to take y units extra of insulin " that's one thing. That is not what I do. I very seldom have to take insulin on scale to make up for poor food choices. I'm still a type 2 diabetic, I just can't take meds to cause me to produce additional insulin, I have to inject it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Mike I wasnt suggesting you were using insulin so you could eat more. I was thinking of newbies coming in and looking at Mike and saying oh he follows the Ada or the food pyramid. I want to impress that you can do so maybe because of the insulin. Many of us can not follow the high carbs of these plans. I cant even follow a modified one with metformin. I am looking to reducing my carbs yet again before the dr. gets drastic on me. Sorry you took my comments the way you did but like I say I worry about newbies. sharon Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike > > No but those of us not on insulin such as I have trouble with the high > carbs > on the pyramid and have to watch our carbs shoot even with metformin I > cant > handle that many carbs. Unless I am mistaken insulin helps tremendously > with all the carbs on the ADA and food pyramid. Sharon, I'm taking insulin because I'm allergic to glyburide and because metformin was not the solution to my diabetes. I don't take insulin to allow me to eat more than I need. I take it to add the amount of insulin to my body that would have been produced if I could take glyburide... or to let it function as it would if metformin worked for me. It doesn't make any difference if I take insulin, or oral medications. They all are designed to meet the same end... allow the body to function as closely to normal as possible. Now, if I were just sitting around here thinking " I want to eat that... it's got x carbs, so I need to take y units extra of insulin " that's one thing. That is not what I do. I very seldom have to take insulin on scale to make up for poor food choices. I'm still a type 2 diabetic, I just can't take meds to cause me to produce additional insulin, I have to inject it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 > > Mike I wasnt suggesting you were using insulin so you could eat more. I > was > thinking of newbies coming in and looking at Mike and saying oh he follows > the Ada or the food pyramid. I want to impress that you can do so maybe > because of the insulin. Many of us can not follow the high carbs of these > plans. I cant even follow a modified one with metformin. I am looking to > reducing my carbs yet again before the dr. gets drastic on me. Sorry you > took my comments the way you did but like I say I worry about newbies. Sharon... don't worry.. no offense taken. I do disagree with this concept though. If you can't maintain your blood sugars following your dietitian's plan, maybe you simply need more or different medication. A healthy diet, is just that. A healthy diet. By the very definition of being diabetic, there is something wrong with the way we produce or use insulin. I strongly disagree with simply cutting carbs and cutting carbs and cutting carbs out if reluctance or fear of taking medication (or taking more medication). I think you should follow the diet plan you are given and if that doesn't work, it's time to change the medication. If you have diabetes, there is nothing wrong with taking medications, be them oral or insulin. We wouldn't advocate someone with cancer to not have chemo...yet we seem to be reluctant to take the best medications available for diabetes, simply because we see it as failure to do so because we couldn't stop eating enough. I guess this is simply where you and I have a difference of opinion. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Hi there, sorry to butt in again. I agree with Sharon, and I think it is time someone challenged these conventional ideas. Carbohydrates are really not that nutritious at all - they generally only provide an energy source - glucose - which most type 2 diabetics can't use too well due to insulin resistance, and which the majority of them don't need anyway because they tend to have weight problems. I disagree about medication too...if you are taking insulin sensitisers like metformin, they only work so much, and if you overload your body with carbs, you may need to start taking more meds. Which is not a good thing as you know, Mike, as you have experienced the intolerance that you sometimes get. The best thing to do if you have not reached the point where you have to take insulin, is to preserve what pancreatic function you have left by not overloading your system with carbs. > > > > Mike I wasnt suggesting you were using insulin so you could eat more. I > > was > > thinking of newbies coming in and looking at Mike and saying oh he follows > > the Ada or the food pyramid. I want to impress that you can do so maybe > > because of the insulin. Many of us can not follow the high carbs of these > > plans. I cant even follow a modified one with metformin. I am looking to > > reducing my carbs yet again before the dr. gets drastic on me. Sorry you > > took my comments the way you did but like I say I worry about newbies. > > > Sharon... don't worry.. no offense taken. > > I do disagree with this concept though. If you can't maintain your blood > sugars following your dietitian's plan, maybe you simply need more or > different medication. > > A healthy diet, is just that. A healthy diet. By the very definition of > being diabetic, there is something wrong with the way we produce or use > insulin. I strongly disagree with simply cutting carbs and cutting carbs > and cutting carbs out if reluctance or fear of taking medication (or taking > more medication). > > I think you should follow the diet plan you are given and if that doesn't > work, it's time to change the medication. > > If you have diabetes, there is nothing wrong with taking medications, be > them oral or insulin. We wouldn't advocate someone with cancer to not have > chemo...yet we seem to be reluctant to take the best medications available > for diabetes, simply because we see it as failure to do so because we > couldn't stop eating enough. > > I guess this is simply where you and I have a difference of opinion. > > Mike > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Except that that cuts out entire food groups and leaves you with fat and protein. Carbs include dairy, vegetables, and fruit, as well the more commonly known starchy grains. Carbs are not only nutritious, they are essential building blocks for life. Your body NEEDS glucose to live. If you cut out glucose, you'd go into ketoacidosis, which is potentially fatal if it persists for too long. Diabetes is something you'll have for life. There is no cure yet, and there will likely be no attainable cure in any of our lifetimes. Instead of making yourself miserable by limiting yourself to a small selection of foods, why not take advantage of the great advances that medical science *has* made, and try more or different medications? Insulin isn't evil - if you can't keep your BG in check with meds & your own insulin, then injected insulin is a literal lifesaver. I was only diagnosed in March, not quite 5 months ago. I had suspected it for some time, which is why I went in for a test. It wasn't a shock to me that it is to a lot of people. But the first thing that went through my mind was, " I don't want to be on insulin. " And I clung to that for a while. I've been working hard the last 5 months, completely changing my eating habits, and have lost 45 lbs from my highest weight. I'm still obese, and still have 165 lbs to lose *sigh* But it's a start I'm on 1500 mg Metformin a day, and it seems to be helping. And, the point of all this, I've accepted that if the Met doesn't work, stops working, whatever, and I need to change meds and they don't work, that I'll end up on insulin. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'll be on insulin eventually - heck, I'm only 26. I've got potentially 60+ years to live with this disease. I'm not going to spend it lamenting what I can and can't eat. I'm going to spend it eating a healthy, balanced diet, and compensating where I need to with medical intervention. But maybe I'm talking out of my butt here...I have never experienced the problems Americans have with insurance companies and copays, and, barring any unforeseen mass brain farts on the part of Canadian citizens, I doubt I ever will. I guess I'm lucky to have been diagnosed up here. Aly Re: ADA food pyramid/Mike Hi there, sorry to butt in again. I agree with Sharon, and I think it is time someone challenged these conventional ideas. Carbohydrates are really not that nutritious at all - they generally only provide an energy source - glucose - which most type 2 diabetics can't use too well due to insulin resistance, and which the majority of them don't need anyway because they tend to have weight problems. I disagree about medication too...if you are taking insulin sensitisers like metformin, they only work so much, and if you overload your body with carbs, you may need to start taking more meds. Which is not a good thing as you know, Mike, as you have experienced the intolerance that you sometimes get. The best thing to do if you have not reached the point where you have to take insulin, is to preserve what pancreatic function you have left by not overloading your system with carbs. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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