Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 -- wow, thank you for the detailed response. let me give you my background thyroid history and maybe that will give you more information. i noticed a TSH level done back in 1999 and it was 2.41. ofcourse the MD never mentioned anything and at the time, i had no clue about hypothyroidism because i really didn't have any symptoms. i was young and living in Chicago at the time, going to graduate school and having a good time. i noticed i would get tired and would not want to go out as much as my friends did, but just attributed that to being in grad school and being a little bit older than most of my friends and also being vegetarian. then in 2000, i had a patch of alopecia on my scalp about the size of a quarter but the hair grew back--thank God!! and i learned i might have a cyst in my left breast--it all turned out to be ok. so fast forward to 2003, i got married and had a hard time with UTI's and possible interstitial cystitis. i had so many tests and had bladder polyps removed but no one could find anything wrong. then slowly, i wouldn't get so many UTI's but it turned into vaginal irritation and then urinary burning after intercourse. then in 9-05, i had a miscarriage. i was about 5 wks along. i had gone through fertility testing and everything was normal. my husband had to have surgery since he had a cyst in his ejaculatory duct that was impeding his flow (this happened before the miscarriage). since i had the miscarriage and had been doing some reading even beforehand, i saw my PCP who rxed Levoxyl, i was on the lowest dose possible, once a day. This was 2 wks after the miscarriage and my TSH was 4.30. i'm sure i have my labs somewhere but he had tested for many different antibodies and i was negative. But i could only stand the Levoxyl for 9 days since i felt really weak, slightly nervous, panicky and had pressured breathing. Then 2 wks after that is when i had a panic attack and it was downhill from there. i became very panicked, obssessive, very depressed, i felt like jumping out of my skin, i didn't know if i was coming or going; i was freaked. i ended up in the ER after the first panic attack. as time went on, my TSH went down to 2.41 and i had testing done on cortisol levels, iron, ACTH, on and on. ofcourse no one could find anything wrong. i then got on a antiyeast diet and then eventually tried the raw food diet. none of this lasted but i slowly improved. it took me about a yr until the sxs went away. i tried seeing a therapist and even saw a psychiatrist but never took meds; i didn't even think the therapist helped because i didn't feel my problem was mental. even still, i have slight depression here and there and sometimes i feel nervous and have labored breathing but it is not tied to any particular event or scenario. i'm thinking it's my thryoid or blood sugar or deficiency--something. so now, i'm trying to get pregnant and both my husband and i have tested fine but the MD wants to do the clomid and IUI thing. he doesn't think i need thyroid but my PCP is willing to try me on Armour. my conflict is should i try it and hope i don't get the horrible panic and depression thing or should i just wait and hope the fertility thing works. i have a few maternal aunts that have hypo and hashis. my mom said that she just learned that her TSH is 7.29 and she is 57. she said she never had a problem before. but she is not sure if she should take meds because her MD is saying that she's fine and she thinks i overanalyze things and doesn't want to try meds just yet. i live in Atlanta...i don't take selenium. i do take B12 and iron and folic acid. right now, i'm taking a fertility supplement. don't have any children. i'm 34. thanks--Palma opper2@... wrote: Antibody levels can vary, with one test it's possible that they happened to hit you during a period of the cycle when the levels were low, so testing again, when the symptoms are there, is not a bad idea at all.. Sweets... carbohydrates... a common craving for a hypo person. It has to do with how easy they are to process into burnable calories when your body is tried and your brain is trying to kick it into action. Not all sweets are the same, some are worse than others. Corn syrup isn't such a bad thing, High Fructose Corn Syrup is a bad thing, it has to do with the chemical modification that is done to the natural sugar to make it seem sweeter (complicated to explain unless you're into chemistry stuff). The best thing to do for sweet cravings, I think, for a hypo type person is to have them BUT balance with proteins and fats. If you compare it to a camp fire.... the carbs are the little twigs and branches that get the fire started fast and easy and hot... and the proteins and fats are the bigger logs that you put on once the fire is started, to keep it burning longer. If you eat just carbs they burn up quick.... quick energy (what your body is craving) but soon gone and then you are back to being tired and hungry again... add the proteins and the GOOD fats.. and fiber (forgot to say fiber) they take longer to digest.. so they don't get used up so quick... they spread out the calories and energy over a longer period of time than just the carby/sugary stuff. It's HARD to relearn how to eat... it's HARD to understand what some of the things that your body seems to be telling you to do and knowing what they mean.... From your symptoms alone, it's hard to tell what might be going on with you... the miscarriage, along with the high TSH suggest a hypo phase, temporary??? We don't know.. This is what you shared for lab history: TSH has been anywhere from 2.41 to 3.31 since 2004; once it was 4.30 but that was 2 wks after my miscarriage in 2005; my last 2 results were 2/07 TSH 3.31 3/07 TSH 2.41 FT3 has ranged from 280-330 with a range of 230-420 FT4 has ranged from 1.1-1.5 with a range of 0.8-1.8. ferritin continues to be low at 25. Can you kind run a time line for us...? Month and year for: When you last felt 'okay'... When you started working on getting pregnant (if it was planned)... When you miscarried.. How far along were you? The TSH is a bit high.... the Free T3 is too low.... The panic and anxiety you spoke of when starting on the Levoxyl after the miscarriage.. that could have been the hormones in your system at the time, could have been adrenal related to thyroid, or to the replacement thyroid, or the emotions involved with the miscarriage... or a reaction to something in the pills themselves... There is too little info to go on... How much did they give you of the Levoxyl, what was the dose? Your sleeping... or lack of sleeping, with all the waking.. that is suggesting adrenals that are not firing as they should.. that can be stress - everyday life, worried about what is going on....or it can be low thyroid stressing them Any history of thyroid in your family? Do you take any Selenium? What part of the country/world are you in? Have you already had any children? How much did they weight at birth? Topper () On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:56:38 -0700 (PDT) palma joshi <dholakia72 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> writes: Hey Topper-- i have been tested for antibodies but it's been about a yr or so and it was negative at the time. i have to admit that my diet is pretty bad but i've been working on making it better. i really don't eat soy but i love sweets so i'm sure the corn syrup pops up quite a bit. and i'm sure there's fluoride in the water i drink. as far as the panic and anxiety, it was really bad for quite a while. i shudder when i think about it. i had a miscarriage and then 2 wks later, started thyroid meds because my TSH was at 4.30. i was only on the med for 9 days because it made me feel worse and then a week or two after that is when i had my first panic attack and it was downhill since then. i alternated between feeling extremely depressed and anxious, almost paranoid and would have strange attacks where i couldn't catch my breath. it slowly got better and it's been a few months since i've experienced that. i do have days when i feel depressed and sometimes i feel on edge and my breathing does feel strained but nothing like before. and i wonder if my body was reacting to the miscarriage or if my thyroid was off. i've had my cortisol tested--blood, urine and saliva. my morning level was very high after the miscarriage but it all tapered back down eventually. the saliva hormone results were completely different than my blood hormone levels. it was really confusing!! so i'm just going by my blood levels. and my heart rate is steady, low; but sometimes, i can feel it speed up and my heart beats fast. my blood pressure is usually always low. as far as sleep goes, sometimes it's great and sometimes it's bad. like everything else, it fluctuates. i've woken up a couple times in the middle of the night in a panic and felt like i needed to flee, i didn't know what to do. i go through periods of not being able to fall asleep, but mostly i wake up alot throughout the night. i definitely don't sleep 8 hours straight. my temp is usually fine. it's been low here and there--it's mostly in the upper 97 range which i think is fine. right now, i'm taking a fertility blend vitamin/herbal supplement that has iron and folic acid and chasteberry. i also take extra B12 since my level is low and extra folic acid since i've been told that is what really increases ferritin. sometimes before i sleep, i take a mag/cal powder. i'm gonna try to take fish oil caps too. i appreciate all your input!! palma Now that's room service! 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Guest guest Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Okay, I'm not a doc... just a victim of this thyroid stuff.. but as I read through this, the impression that I get is that you should be heading in for some more testing... The cycling part of it makes me thing Hashi's and the other stuff is making my thing of stressed adrenals resulting from the Hashi's... Antibody levels can fluctuate, it's part of the cycling of the Hashi's. If it was at 'low tide' the antibody levels can conceivably not show as high.. you need to test a few times if the symptoms are there but the levels didn't happen to support the symptoms. As for the panic issues and not being able to handle the low dose of thyroid after your miscarriage... that fits with adrenal fatigue, that they, on top of everything that was happening, physically and emotionally, couldn't handle the additional hormone. It's suggested that even before starting on thyroid hormone that adrenals be checked so that if support is needed that can be started before the thyroid hormone, that's how closely that all ties together... As far as testing for it... a single test will not be accurate. The more accurate test is the one that allows them to check the levels of adrenal hormones several times over the course of the day to see if the levels are high when they should be and low when they should be... others in the group can explain those tests far better than I... I've not had them done. Again, a suggestion. Since you have a family history of hypo and Hashi's and since that puts your future children at risk in addition to your own levels fluctuating... it might be a wise choice to get this straightened out before getting pregnant. It will be easier on you and your baby to have healthier, more stable levels, than if you just let it go.... Not to scare you.. but just so that you are aware... If a mom is hypo while she is carrying her body will take thyroid hormone from her unborn baby, putting that baby at a greater risk for problems... including slowed physical and mental development, and a higher (over 10 pounds) birth weight. If a mom is hyper while she is carrying, there is no transfer of hormone from mom to unborn baby but with the extra needs that her body will have because of the hyper state it's possible that food and nutrients that the baby needs to develop and grow won't be getting there cuz the mom's hyper body will take it first.... In either case there is a much greater risk of miscarriage or if the pregnancy is full term that there my be problems down the road for the baby..... Do some reading, do some thinking, make sure that you know what is going on as you continue to make plans for having a family.. I'm sure that you want to be the best mom that you can be, and you need to be healthy to do that, and then you will be there for your hubby and your new baby.... Just my opinion.... For your mom. She may feel just hunky dory right now, and that's good.. but she should be aware that there is a family history and if her TSH is a sign that her body is going hypo, or already there, the time will come when the symptoms will catch up on her, might be a week, a month or ten years... the longer her body struggles with low thyroid levels the greater the stress to her entire body and it can take time to 'recover' so it might be in her best interest to be aware, keep an eye on her levels AND her symptoms and err on the side of caution rather than to ignore things and end up like some of us, wishing that it had been caught sooner.... .... quietly climbing off soap box.... Are you tracking your body temp as part of your fertility testing? If so, how do the numbers look? Topper () On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:45:27 -0700 (PDT) palma joshi writes: -- wow, thank you for the detailed response. let me give you my background thyroid history and maybe that will give you more information. i noticed a TSH level done back in 1999 and it was 2.41. ofcourse the MD never mentioned anything and at the time, i had no clue about hypothyroidism because i really didn't have any symptoms. i was young and living in Chicago at the time, going to graduate school and having a good time. i noticed i would get tired and would not want to go out as much as my friends did, but just attributed that to being in grad school and being a little bit older than most of my friends and also being vegetarian. then in 2000, i had a patch of alopecia on my scalp about the size of a quarter but the hair grew back--thank God!! and i learned i might have a cyst in my left breast--it all turned out to be ok. so fast forward to 2003, i got married and had a hard time with UTI's and possible interstitial cystitis. i had so many tests and had bladder polyps removed but no one could find anything wrong. then slowly, i wouldn't get so many UTI's but it turned into vaginal irritation and then urinary burning after intercourse. then in 9-05, i had a miscarriage. i was about 5 wks along. i had gone through fertility testing and everything was normal. my husband had to have surgery since he had a cyst in his ejaculatory duct that was impeding his flow (this happened before the miscarriage). since i had the miscarriage and had been doing some reading even beforehand, i saw my PCP who rxed Levoxyl, i was on the lowest dose possible, once a day. This was 2 wks after the miscarriage and my TSH was 4.30. i'm sure i have my labs somewhere but he had tested for many different antibodies and i was negative. But i could only stand the Levoxyl for 9 days since i felt really weak, slightly nervous, panicky and had pressured breathing. Then 2 wks after that is when i had a panic attack and it was downhill from there. i became very panicked, obssessive, very depressed, i felt like jumping out of my skin, i didn't know if i was coming or going; i was freaked. i ended up in the ER after the first panic attack. as time went on, my TSH went down to 2.41 and i had testing done on cortisol levels, iron, ACTH, on and on. ofcourse no one could find anything wrong. i then got on a antiyeast diet and then eventually tried the raw food diet. none of this lasted but i slowly improved. it took me about a yr until the sxs went away. i tried seeing a therapist and even saw a psychiatrist but never took meds; i didn't even think the therapist helped because i didn't feel my problem was mental. even still, i have slight depression here and there and sometimes i feel nervous and have labored breathing but it is not tied to any particular event or scenario. i'm thinking it's my thryoid or blood sugar or deficiency--something. so now, i'm trying to get pregnant and both my husband and i have tested fine but the MD wants to do the clomid and IUI thing. he doesn't think i need thyroid but my PCP is willing to try me on Armour. my conflict is should i try it and hope i don't get the horrible panic and depression thing or should i just wait and hope the fertility thing works. i have a few maternal aunts that have hypo and hashis. my mom said that she just learned that her TSH is 7.29 and she is 57. she said she never had a problem before. but she is not sure if she should take meds because her MD is saying that she's fine and she thinks i overanalyze things and doesn't want to try meds just yet. i live in Atlanta...i don't take selenium. i do take B12 and iron and folic acid. right now, i'm taking a fertility supplement. don't have any children. i'm 34. thanks--Palma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 -- i have been tracking my temps for the fertility issues and i am in the 97 range and after i ovulate, i climb into the 98 range. a couple days this past week, i was about 98.6 and i woke up in the middle of the night in a sweat!! it was weird. this happened to me yrs ago. but here's an update i posted and maybe you can help: I just wanted to post all my results including both blood and saliva so you guys can give me some more guidance. also, i'm so confused about whether or not i should try iodine and if i should consider taking adrenal support and if so, how do you know what to take. i heard some are stronger than others---isocort, HC, cortef.... i'm still debating on whether i should start the armour or not.... also, today, i felt horrible--i got the panicky feeling, i felt like i was going crazy, i thought i had to leave work....it's such a horrible feeling, my head actually felt some pressure, not like a headache but more pressure. i thought i would feel better after i ate something, but it's still there, just not as bad. i hate this feeling, it really scares me and i feel like "what if i end up in the hospital in the psych ward or what if i have to take my ativan which just zonks me out." i'm wondering if this is thyroid related or is something else going on?? well, here are my results: SALIVA: Free Cortisol Rhythm (6-28-06)7-8 am 19 range is 13-24 normal11-noon 5 range is 5-10 normal4-5 pm 9 range is 3-8 elevated11-midnite 4 range is 1-4 normalDHEA 3 range is 3-10 borderlinefTSH 40 range is 26-85 normalfT4 .18 range is .17-.42 normalfT3 1.26 range is .28-1.10 highTPO negativeEstradiol 13 range is 5-13 normal for follicular stage?Progesterone 29 range is 20-100 normal for follicular stage?Free Testosterone 18 range is 8-20 normalBLOOD:TSH11-12-04 2.459-27-05 4.30 2 wks. post miscarriage10-13-05 3.11 1 month post m/c10-24-05 2.4111-10-05 2.61 2 months post m/c12-12-05 2.68 3 months post m/c12-21-05 3.102-14-06 2.78 5 months post m/c3-31-06 3.236-16-06 2.601-07 3.31 2-22-07 2.40 10-13-05 Thyroglobulin Antibodies was <20 and the reference range is <2010-13-05 Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies was <10 and the range is <3510-13-05 Anti-Streptolysin O was 51 and the range is < or = 20010-13-05 ANA Screen was negativeFT3 and FT410-13-05 326 (230-420) and 1.5 (.8-1.8)11-10-05 305 (230-420) and 1.1 (.8-1.8)2-14-06 330 (230-420) and 1.3 (.8-1.8)6-16-06 280 (230-420) and 1.5 (.8-1.8)2-22-07 332 and 1.3 Total Cortisol10-14-05 28.7 range is 4.0-22.010-26-05 21.0 same range2-14-06 17.5 same range6-16-06 18.0 range is 3.0-17.0Ferritin10-14-05 23 range is 10-15412-12-05 24 same range2-14-06 20 same range6-28-06 23 same range2-22-07 25 B1210-14-05 322 range is 200-110011-10-05 382 same range2-14-06 307 same range3-31-06 247 same range6-16-06 739 2-22-07 332I would appreciate all your help. thanks--PJ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Palma That very very very low ferritin (storage iron) is what stands out the most to me, plus a not so good B12. Sure, they are in the lab's "normal" range, but the good thyroid docs' opinions seem to pretty much coincide with each other---It should be at least a 60 or 70 and maybe above that even, with the lab ranges the same ones as what your lab's are. And if you went home from work in the middle of the day (right?), it seems to pretty muc coincide with when your cortisol moves up above the normal range. You need a doctor who is VERY astute in determining how all this fits together, but I would sure be taking iron, at least in small doses, with a ferritin count like that. Not , but ten heads are better than one or two, I think. Re: Intro - Palma to -- i have been tracking my temps for the fertility issues and i am in the 97 range and after i ovulate, i climb into the 98 range. a couple days this past week, i was about 98.6 and i woke up in the middle of the night in a sweat!! it was weird. this happened to me yrs ago. but here's an update i posted and maybe you can help: I just wanted to post all my results including both blood and saliva so you guys can give me some more guidance. also, i'm so confused about whether or not i should try iodine and if i should consider taking adrenal support and if so, how do you know what to take. i heard some are stronger than others---isocort, HC, cortef.... i'm still debating on whether i should start the armour or not.... also, today, i felt horrible--i got the panicky feeling, i felt like i was going crazy, i thought i had to leave work....it's such a horrible feeling, my head actually felt some pressure, not like a headache but more pressure. i thought i would feel better after i ate something, but it's still there, just not as bad. i hate this feeling, it really scares me and i feel like "what if i end up in the hospital in the psych ward or what if i have to take my ativan which just zonks me out." i'm wondering if this is thyroid related or is something else going on?? well, here are my results: SALIVA: Free Cortisol Rhythm (6-28-06)7-8 am 19 range is 13-24 normal11-noon 5 range is 5-10 normal4-5 pm 9 range is 3-8 elevated11-midnite 4 range is 1-4 normalDHEA 3 range is 3-10 borderlinefTSH 40 range is 26-85 normalfT4 .18 range is .17-.42 normalfT3 1.26 range is .28-1.10 highTPO negativeEstradiol 13 range is 5-13 normal for follicular stage?Progesterone 29 range is 20-100 normal for follicular stage?Free Testosterone 18 range is 8-20 normalBLOOD:TSH11-12-04 2.459-27-05 4.30 2 wks. post miscarriage10-13-05 3.11 1 month post m/c10-24-05 2.4111-10-05 2.61 2 months post m/c12-12-05 2.68 3 months post m/c12-21-05 3.102-14-06 2.78 5 months post m/c3-31-06 3.236-16-06 2.601-07 3.31 2-22-07 2.40 10-13-05 Thyroglobulin Antibodies was <20 and the reference range is <2010-13-05 Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies was <10 and the range is <3510-13-05 Anti-Streptolysin O was 51 and the range is < or = 20010-13-05 ANA Screen was negativeFT3 and FT410-13-05 326 (230-420) and 1.5 (.8-1.8)11-10-05 305 (230-420) and 1.1 (.8-1.8)2-14-06 330 (230-420) and 1.3 (.8-1.8)6-16-06 280 (230-420) and 1.5 (.8-1.8)2-22-07 332 and 1.3 Total Cortisol10-14-05 28.7 range is 4.0-22.010-26-05 21.0 same range2-14-06 17.5 same range6-16-06 18.0 range is 3.0-17.0Ferritin10-14-05 23 range is 10-15412-12-05 24 same range2-14-06 20 same range6-28-06 23 same range2-22-07 25 B1210-14-05 322 range is 200-110011-10-05 382 same range2-14-06 307 same range3-31-06 247 same range6-16-06 739 2-22-07 332I would appreciate all your help. thanks--PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 thanks .... well, i felt pretty weird starting this morning and it lasted almost all day. i thought it might be a panic attack but it lasted a long time, it wasn't short lived. i know for the last 3 wks, i've been really sleepy all day long until about 6 pm and then i'm awake until late at night and then i still don't get the most restful sleep. but before these last 3 wks, i wouldn't be sleepy during the day at all, i would be wide awake. so it's not consistent. i think my levels just go up and down. i've tried to tie it to food but nothing sticks out. Palma Never miss an email again!Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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