EMS associations

[Guest guest]

Seeing as EMS is so schizophrenic in its delivery nationwide as well the

variety of EMS personnel, ranging from volunteer first responder agencies to

for-profit aeromedical services, is there a need for a broad-based EMS

association either at the national level or the state level to advocate for

EMS?

What should such an organization's agenda even be?

For example, what does a volunteer first responder in rural Wyoming have in

common with a fire department paramedic working in Los Angeles? Is there any

common agenda between those two at all? Or what about the volunteer EMS

service in rural West Texas as opposed to a nationwide company like AMR? Do

they have a common agenda?

I'm not asking this to bash any of the national organizations. Rather, I'm

just asking if there's an agenda that the majority of us in EMS can even

actually agree on.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Wes;

We should all have the same agenda due to a couple of reasons.

1) Across the nation there is a training standard

2) Across the nation there should be a Standard Of Care

3) Although there may be different protocols the above two mentioned items

should be enough to bring all together.

I believe an organizations' agenda should be how the profession can advance

and give the same benefits and pay rates as other medical professionals. Perhaps

even a more specific education plan for Associate, Bachelor, or Doctorate degree

programs.

Just a few thoughts.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Seeing as EMS is so schizophrenic in its delivery nationwide as well

the

variety of EMS personnel, ranging from volunteer first responder agencies to

for-profit aeromedical services, is there a need for a broad-based EMS

association either at the national level or the state level to advocate for EMS?

What should such an organization's agenda even be?

For example, what does a volunteer first responder in rural Wyoming have in

common with a fire department paramedic working in Los Angeles? Is there any

common agenda between those two at all? Or what about the volunteer EMS

service in rural West Texas as opposed to a nationwide company like AMR? Do

they have a common agenda?

I'm not asking this to bash any of the national organizations. Rather, I'm

just asking if there's an agenda that the majority of us in EMS can even

actually agree on.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Ever the cynic, I ask you this:  How can we make those aspirational goals when,

in reality, there's no commonality amongst most EMS folks?   For example, most

(not all) firefighters who hold an EMS certification think of themselves as

firefighters.  They believe holding an EMS cert is part of being a firefighter,

not an identity unto itself.

-Wes

Re: EMS associations

Wes;

We should all have the same agenda due to a couple of reasons.

1) Across the nation there is a training standard

2) Across the nation there should be a Standard Of Care

3) Although there may be different protocols the above two mentioned items

should be enough to bring all together.

I believe an organizations' agenda should be how the profession can advance and

give the same benefits and pay rates as other medical professionals. Perhaps

even a more specific education plan for Associate, Bachelor, or Doctorate degree

programs.

Just a few thoughts.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Seeing as EMS is so schizophrenic in its delivery nationwide as well the

variety of EMS personnel, ranging from volunteer first responder agencies to

for-profit aeromedical services, is there a need for a broad-based EMS

association either at the national level or the state level to advocate for EMS?

What should such an organization's agenda even be?

For example, what does a volunteer first responder in rural Wyoming have in

common with a fire department paramedic working in Los Angeles? Is there any

common agenda between those two at all? Or what about the volunteer EMS

service in rural West Texas as opposed to a nationwide company like AMR? Do

they have a common agenda?

I'm not asking this to bash any of the national organizations. Rather, I'm

just asking if there's an agenda that the majority of us in EMS can even

actually agree on.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

They are FireFighters, however; they are also EMS folks. This is something to

which they are not held to.

Another suggestion is that EMS quit playing second fiddle to Fire Department

and start to hold it's own agenda. We have specific EMS associations. The lobby

for Fire Departments across the nation is big, but not so much as where EMS

cannot make it known that we are in for the long haul.

It is hard to separate from MOM and DAD. Can we do it on our own? Do we have

the resources not to fail?

I believe the answers are YES.

Does not the cub separate from the lioness to become king of his own domain?

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Ever the cynic, I ask you this: How can we make those aspirational

goals when, in reality, there's no commonality amongst most EMS folks? For

example, most (not all) firefighters who hold an EMS certification think of

themselves as firefighters. They believe holding an EMS cert is part of being a

firefighter, not an identity unto itself.

-Wes

Re: EMS associations

Wes;

We should all have the same agenda due to a couple of reasons.

1) Across the nation there is a training standard

2) Across the nation there should be a Standard Of Care

3) Although there may be different protocols the above two mentioned items

should be enough to bring all together.

I believe an organizations' agenda should be how the profession can advance and

give the same benefits and pay rates as other medical professionals. Perhaps

even a more specific education plan for Associate, Bachelor, or Doctorate degree

programs.

Just a few thoughts.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Seeing as EMS is so schizophrenic in its delivery nationwide as well the

variety of EMS personnel, ranging from volunteer first responder agencies to

for-profit aeromedical services, is there a need for a broad-based EMS

association either at the national level or the state level to advocate for EMS?

What should such an organization's agenda even be?

For example, what does a volunteer first responder in rural Wyoming have in

common with a fire department paramedic working in Los Angeles? Is there any

common agenda between those two at all? Or what about the volunteer EMS

service in rural West Texas as opposed to a nationwide company like AMR? Do

they have a common agenda?

I'm not asking this to bash any of the national organizations. Rather, I'm

just asking if there's an agenda that the majority of us in EMS can even

actually agree on.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

>>Does not the cub separate from the lioness to become king of his own domain?<<

Actually, they separate but remain close until they're big enough to take over

another pride, and even then they let the lionesses do all the hunting. <grin>

Other than that, I agree with everything you said.

--

Grayson, CCEMT-P, etc.

MEDIC Training Solutions

http://www.medictrainingsolutions.com/

[Guest guest]

Danny,

I beg to differ a little...

1.? Although there is a national standard of training it is not used across the

nation...for instance, Texas does not follow the current and latest

standards...and within Texas alone, different programs teach to different

levels...some get close to the standard...others don't sway from what is

minimally needed to pass the test at the end.

2.? " Should be " a Standard of Care...bold statement.? Maybe not a bad goal, but

not sure I buy into it.? So, if it makes sense to do pre-hospital?thrombolytics

in Stratford Texas...couple hours from a cath lab...then it makes sense to do

that in San where we have 10+ interventional cath labs across the city??

3.? Again, not necessarily...one thing I have learned in my travels...EMS is a

LOCAL issue...communities have the EMS system they have because of choices that

community makes...tax rates, response times, education provided to citizens, etc

all go into deciding this...but to say we should all stand in a big circle

singing happy songs is a stretch.

Like so many other things in our society, we should all stop saying things like

" Group so-and-so, which is totally different than my group, is doing it all

wrong and they are stupid and don't care... " and start taking our groups to them

and reaching out to achieve common goals...

Maybe some small ones to start with...like EMS should get paid more by CMS for

the services it provides...or ambulances should be constructed safer with better

occupant restraint systems...or all ambulances should be painted purple with big

pink dots!!!!!? I don't know...I do know everytime I hear that we should all do

it the same everywhere, I get scared....because it isn't the same everywhere.

Dudley

Re: EMS associations

Wes;

We should all have the same agenda due to a couple of reasons.

1) Across the nation there is a training standard

2) Across the nation there should be a Standard Of Care

3) Although there may be different protocols the above two mentioned items

should be enough to bring all together.

I believe an organizations' agenda should be how the profession can advance and

give the same benefits and pay rates as other medical professionals. Perhaps

even a more specific education plan for Associate, Bachelor, or Doctorate degree

programs.

Just a few thoughts.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Seeing as EMS is so schizophrenic in its delivery nationwide as well the

variety of EMS personnel, ranging from volunteer first responder agencies to

for-profit aeromedical services, is there a need for a broad-based EMS

association either at the national level or the state level to advocate for EMS?

What should such an organization's agenda even be?

For example, what does a volunteer first responder in rural Wyoming have in

common with a fire department paramedic working in Los Angeles? Is there any

common agenda between those two at all? Or what about the volunteer EMS

service in rural West Texas as opposed to a nationwide company like AMR? Do

they have a common agenda?

I'm not asking this to bash any of the national organizations. Rather, I'm

just asking if there's an agenda that the majority of us in EMS can even

actually agree on.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Austin, Texas

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

>>> " Should be " a Standard of Care...bold statement.? Maybe not a bad

goal, but not sure I buy into it.? So, if it makes sense to do pre-

hospital?thrombolytics in Stratford Texas...couple hours from a cath

lab...then it makes sense to do that in San where we have 10+

interventional cath labs across the city?? <<<

Dudley,

In my travels, I have found that EMS is not as dissimilar as many

would have us believe. Are there not commonalities in assessment and

care that apply at the EMT level (or paramedic level) regardless of

whether you are in Hooterville, Texas or Chicago, Illinois?

For example, in every American city I have ever been in, all chest

pain patients are required to have a set of vital signs and are given

oxygen. In cities with paramedics and the proper equipment, all

treatment guidelines require aspirin, ECG monitor and nitroglycerin.

If we accept for a moment that this is true, couldn't we design a set

of training standards that would be appropriate for every EMT in the

nation? Or for every paramedic?

Then, couldn't each state add training that might be unique for the

environment? Or each region of the state? Maybe West Texas EMS

training institutions could add training about fibrinolytics because

they do not have rapid access to interventional cath labs. City

paramedics would not be required to have that knowledge because of

the access they have.

Perhaps medics on the coast would be required to complete a module on

marine animal envenomation, EMTs in the desert would have to learn

about gila monsters and rattlesnakes, while the mountain medics would

learn about high-altitude sickness.

One might argue that the quality of medic would not be consistent

across the state or the nation, but on some level, that would not be

true. All of the EMTS or paramedics have the common knowledge - some

would just have special knowledge dictated by their local

environment. (Not much different from the current system.)

I do believe it is possible to agree on bare minimum knowledge and a

skill set that would be applicable to every EMT and paramedic in the

nation. States and local training agencies should then be allowed

the freedom to add to that based on local need.

Kenny Navarro

Speaking Independently