academics in smaller classrooms

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I visited Aubrie's new classroom at ISD this week. There are so many

wonderful things happening! The only concern the aide and I have is around

academics. It just seems like they don't get much done in one day. But

it's like comparing apples to oranges. In the regular classroom we are both

used to, there are 25 kids and the day is kept constantly moving from lesson

to lesson. With only 5 kids, the structure of it is so different. You know

when your kid is sick, they can get thru a day of school work in an hour?

So is it the same - can the academics take less time in the day when there

are less kids and the instruction can be more focused? It's not that they

aren't doing it. It's just much less pressured (good for Aubrie) and it

feels like there is less time spent and they are moving along on the content

more slowly. But are they really or is it just my impression? Any ideas

from folks who've seen both sides: regular ed and smaller classrooms/spec

ed?

Aubrie seems to be doing so well. Even if they are moving more slowly thru

the content, it could be good. It'd be better to go slowly and be sure she

gets it than to move along swiftly leaving her in the dust. However, I just

need to know how the academic content and progress compares to regular ed.

It should be compatible since these kids are expected to get a full

education, right?

Michele W

Aubrie's mom 8 yrs

[Guest guest]

I think you could definitely get through academics much quicker with five

and be doing other things and STILL get a proper education. Glad to hear

you are still happy with the placement!

Hugs,

>

> Hi!

> I visited Aubrie's new classroom at ISD this week. There are so many

> wonderful things happening! The only concern the aide and I have is around

> academics. It just seems like they don't get much done in one day. But

> it's like comparing apples to oranges. In the regular classroom we are

> both

> used to, there are 25 kids and the day is kept constantly moving from

> lesson

> to lesson. With only 5 kids, the structure of it is so different. You know

> when your kid is sick, they can get thru a day of school work in an hour?

> So is it the same - can the academics take less time in the day when there

> are less kids and the instruction can be more focused? It's not that they

> aren't doing it. It's just much less pressured (good for Aubrie) and it

> feels like there is less time spent and they are moving along on the

> content

> more slowly. But are they really or is it just my impression? Any ideas

> from folks who've seen both sides: regular ed and smaller classrooms/spec

> ed?

>

> Aubrie seems to be doing so well. Even if they are moving more slowly thru

> the content, it could be good. It'd be better to go slowly and be sure she

> gets it than to move along swiftly leaving her in the dust. However, I

> just

> need to know how the academic content and progress compares to regular ed.

> It should be compatible since these kids are expected to get a full

> education, right?

>

> Michele W

> Aubrie's mom 8 yrs

>

>

[Guest guest]

michele, I know that tim spends more time on an issue/subject than keegan does

maybe two weeks for t were k only spends a week. but t needs that--k doesn't.

it takes t longer to " get it " and the more reenforcement the better cause once

he has it, it's in the steel vault and doesn't come out!!! I also know t get it

visually, and auditory--several times in several ways--which is good sometimes

more is better.

hope she loves school and is doing great!

academics in smaller classrooms

Hi!

I visited Aubrie's new classroom at ISD this week. There are so many

wonderful things happening! The only concern the aide and I have is around

academics. It just seems like they don't get much done in one day. But

it's like comparing apples to oranges. In the regular classroom we are both

used to, there are 25 kids and the day is kept constantly moving from lesson

to lesson. With only 5 kids, the structure of it is so different. You know

when your kid is sick, they can get thru a day of school work in an hour?

So is it the same - can the academics take less time in the day when there

are less kids and the instruction can be more focused? It's not that they

aren't doing it. It's just much less pressured (good for Aubrie) and it

feels like there is less time spent and they are moving along on the content

more slowly. But are they really or is it just my impression? Any ideas

from folks who've seen both sides: regular ed and smaller classrooms/spec

ed?

Aubrie seems to be doing so well. Even if they are moving more slowly thru

the content, it could be good. It'd be better to go slowly and be sure she

gets it than to move along swiftly leaving her in the dust. However, I just

need to know how the academic content and progress compares to regular ed.

It should be compatible since these kids are expected to get a full

education, right?

Michele W

Aubrie's mom 8 yrs

[Guest guest]

We are having some issues at this time. Garland has been in the Day School for

the Deaf for three years now. He has had as many as 10 children in his class.

This year they are using a new system inclusion. Yes, it is good for those who

are ready and when the teachers are there. Garland's teacher who is responsible

for 2 children is now responsible for 15, because the regular ed. teacher is not

there. First 6 weeks the teacher was there for about 1 week. Garland and the

other student isn't getting time with their teacher to work on IEP goals. My

son is not participating in class. I am always being told that he did

participate and was a class clown. He is BORED! I can't scold my child for

that!

Sorry Michele, as you can tell I am not happy with the situation. I do believe

that when and if the child is ready for a larger class then yes, move them. You

have nailed it. When it is a smaller class there is less pressure and yes they

cover the material. This way it gives the children a chance to answer in a

timely manner rather than being rushed!

, Randy & Garland Goodwin

P.S. - Michele I had my second surgery and the right side had NO cancer in it!!!

:-)

---- Michele Westmaas wrote:

=============

Hi!

I visited Aubrie's new classroom at ISD this week. There are so many

wonderful things happening! The only concern the aide and I have is around

academics. It just seems like they don't get much done in one day. But

it's like comparing apples to oranges. In the regular classroom we are both

used to, there are 25 kids and the day is kept constantly moving from lesson

to lesson. With only 5 kids, the structure of it is so different. You know

when your kid is sick, they can get thru a day of school work in an hour?

So is it the same - can the academics take less time in the day when there

are less kids and the instruction can be more focused? It's not that they

aren't doing it. It's just much less pressured (good for Aubrie) and it

feels like there is less time spent and they are moving along on the content

more slowly. But are they really or is it just my impression? Any ideas

from folks who've seen both sides: regular ed and smaller classrooms/spec

ed?

Aubrie seems to be doing so well. Even if they are moving more slowly thru

the content, it could be good. It'd be better to go slowly and be sure she

gets it than to move along swiftly leaving her in the dust. However, I just

need to know how the academic content and progress compares to regular ed.

It should be compatible since these kids are expected to get a full

education, right?

Michele W

Aubrie's mom 8 yrs

[Guest guest]

Michele,

I don't have a specific suggestion other than to go with your gut

feeling about the pace and perhaps speak up about it. I would think

moving so slow would cause the kids to lose interest but it sounds like

Aubrie doesn't mind.

Our son Cameron is in a typical deaf/hh preschool class but there are

several kids like Cameron with issues beyond a hearing loss. Right now

they have six kids and three of them have nurses. However, the pace it

pretty brisk - just to say that they do move things along and pack in a

lot of activities. But preschool is still more play based with some sit

down learning opportunities like story time, art time, snack and circle

time. It's different than learning more difficult concepts like math,

reading and writing.

Mom to Cameron, 4 (CHARGE) and , 6.

http://cameronandrew.blogspot.com/

[Guest guest]

for soem it is good for others it isnt thats my opion and we all need to

find wats best for each person

>

> Michele,

>

> I don't have a specific suggestion other than to go with your gut

> feeling about the pace and perhaps speak up about it. I would think

> moving so slow would cause the kids to lose interest but it sounds like

> Aubrie doesn't mind.

>

> Our son Cameron is in a typical deaf/hh preschool class but there are

> several kids like Cameron with issues beyond a hearing loss. Right now

> they have six kids and three of them have nurses. However, the pace it

> pretty brisk - just to say that they do move things along and pack in a

> lot of activities. But preschool is still more play based with some sit

> down learning opportunities like story time, art time, snack and circle

> time. It's different than learning more difficult concepts like math,

> reading and writing.

>

>

> Mom to Cameron, 4 (CHARGE) and , 6.

> http://cameronandrew.blogspot.com/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michele

I am a day late and a dollar short here given the comments you have already

received (computer issues, groan). But... I just want to say that the

slower/smaller seems just right. For Aubrie, I am sure that if she seems to

be doing well, she probably is and she will get all that she is supposed.

This may be just the thing she needed to get on track and to be able to

learn without stress, get her sign skills going, and make friends in the

comfort of a small, manageable group.

pam

> Hi!

> I visited Aubrie's new classroom at ISD this week. There are so many

> wonderful things happening! The only concern the aide and I have is around

> academics. It just seems like they don't get much done in one day. But

> it's like comparing apples to oranges. In the regular classroom we are both

> used to, there are 25 kids and the day is kept constantly moving from lesson

> to lesson. With only 5 kids, the structure of it is so different. You know

> when your kid is sick, they can get thru a day of school work in an hour?

> So is it the same - can the academics take less time in the day when there

> are less kids and the instruction can be more focused? It's not that they

> aren't doing it. It's just much less pressured (good for Aubrie) and it

> feels like there is less time spent and they are moving along on the content

> more slowly. But are they really or is it just my impression? Any ideas

> from folks who've seen both sides: regular ed and smaller classrooms/spec

> ed?

>

>

>

> Aubrie seems to be doing so well. Even if they are moving more slowly thru

> the content, it could be good. It'd be better to go slowly and be sure she

> gets it than to move along swiftly leaving her in the dust. However, I just

> need to know how the academic content and progress compares to regular ed.

> It should be compatible since these kids are expected to get a full

> education, right?

>

>

>

> Michele W

> Aubrie's mom 8 yrs

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

To all who answered my question-

Thanks. You've given me lots of feedback to think about and to help me

relax a bit about the whole thing.

Michele W

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Class size has a huge impact especially for children who have special needs.

I was in a class last year that had 24 students. Not one received the one on

one instruction they could have if the class had been smaller. Even 20 would

have made a huge difference.

As for going slower, yea! You want the child to understand the why and the

how and not just spurt information. Learning has to be meaningful.

It's all good.

Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

We have always made sure had water available at all times too. Even

now, well after the trach is gone-it makes a big positive all-around difference

for her.

in Ma. (, 21 yrs)

[Guest guest]

bonnie i agree when i was in the main stream i was in classes of 30 poeple

and soem of these classes were noisy disruptive and all this i found i

couldtn learn with my hearing difficulty my english teacher at blamain didnt

help shed b yelling to yelling at them to shut up then in year eleven i glot

a great teacher for english mainstream calsses were still nosisy but the

teacher understood me he would try to keep the noise down then i moved to

the senior campus the english lady there was great she still told the clas

of 15 to b quiet and stuff but she wasnt as loud about it eather and she

made sure that the hearing part of the ear was closer to her and not so

close to the noise which helped and she had me have water and stuff to keep

concentration levals up we weretn allowed to have water in the mainschool

but she allowed it she knew i needed it dont know hwo maybe soemone told her

or maybe she just knew LOL

>

> Michele,

>

> Class size has a huge impact especially for children who have special

> needs.

> I was in a class last year that had 24 students. Not one received the one

> on

> one instruction they could have if the class had been smaller. Even 20

> would

> have made a huge difference.

>

> As for going slower, yea! You want the child to understand the why and the

>

> how and not just spurt information. Learning has to be meaningful.

>

> It's all good.

>

> Bonnie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michele,

I agree totally with Bonnie about what she said about smaller classes.

Small classes have so much potential to offer meaningful opportunities for

learning and growth. It's always my preference that Kendra be in a small

class and was my preference for our older two kids when they were in

school, too.

I am also wondering a little bit about the pace of the class Aubrie is

attending in another way, though. Many children who attend schools for the

deaf may have delayed language in general. Perhaps they were not identified

early as having a hearing loss or weren't in programs that had adequate

curriculum or language access. I noticed at Kendra's school that even some

children enter the high school with no language! Previously they had not

been in a setting with language support for a deaf child.

Aubrie has had GREAT language input both from the standpoint of hearing much

of it and also in the language-rich environment you provide for her. It's

possible the class is moving slower to allow students with less language

familiarity to catch up. This may not be true at all for your situation,

but it is true in conditions I have observed over and over again. The other

kids may still be catching up with grade level expectations.

In fact, ramifications of the lack of early language acquisition and some

other factors contribute to the fact that deaf children are not succeeding

at the state of California 'exit' exam at the same rate as their hearing

peers. This means that a potential exists to not receive a regular diploma.

Many states are instituting or have instituted a similar high school 'exit'

exam which must be passed before graduation.

You may wish to check Illinois data for children passing the exit exam from

the school for the deaf compared with other schools. To me, it may be

irrelevant though, as Aubrie will in most likelihood return to her home

school and more vigorous academics next year. The year will have been

beneficial in so many ways by allowing her to forge friendships with other

kids and by allowing immersion in sign language for Aubrie and her aide.

I have known many deaf children, though, who previously attended deaf

programs who then transferred to local schools, with interpreters, in order

to access advanced placement classes. At many deaf schools parents are

complaining in droves about the lack of high academic expectations from the

elementary school on up. This, of course, is not true at all deaf schools

and may not be true at all at Aubrie's school, but I thought I'd mention

that there are a large number of people out there advocating for stringent

academics at such schools. There may even be a group of parents at the

school Aubrie attends who are pushing to see the academic bar raised.

What I have said may not apply, in any way, to why you mentioned what you

did about the progress being made in Aubrie's class. But, I thought I'd

throw out some observations made over many years in many different settings.

Re: academics in smaller classrooms

> Michele,

> Class size has a huge impact especially for children who have special

> needs.

> I was in a class last year that had 24 students. Not one received the one

> on

> one instruction they could have if the class had been smaller. Even 20

> would

> have made a huge difference.

>

> As for going slower, yea! You want the child to understand the why and

> the

> how and not just spurt information. Learning has to be meaningful.

>

> It's all good.

>

> Bonnie

> CHARGE SYNDROME LISTSERV PHOTO PAGE:

> http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2117043995

>

> Membership of this email support group does not constitute membership in

> the CHARGE Syndrome Foundation; for information about the CHARGE Syndrome

> Foundation or to become a member (and get the newsletter),

> please contact marion@... or visit

> the web site at http://www.chargesyndrome.org

>

> 8th International

> CHARGE Syndrome Conference, July, 2007. Information will be available at

> www.chargesyndrome.org or by calling 1-.

>

[Guest guest]

-

This is exactly what my concern is. I just don't know how to compare the

academics in her current setting with her old setting because it's like

apples and oranges. And if I ask the folks at the deaf school if they're

keeping up, of course they'll say yes. Either because they truly are,

because they think they are, or because they want me to think they are. So

how to figure it out for myself? I may contact the parent of the boy who

recently switched from there to our local district as a high school

freshman. She'd know how he was academically. And she has another child

who was educated always in public school (not hearing impaired) so she has a

good yardstick for measuring.

To make matters worse, I don't really know where Aubrie should be

academically. Perhaps it's not in her best interest to keep up with the

regular curriculum and pace. Maybe she really does need it slower. But

maybe not. I don't know. Her grades only began to slip last year. I don't

know if it's the content or the pace that is a problem for her. I know

there are things she really doesn't understand in a way that I expect her to

at her age.

And, I had thought she'd return to our home school next year. But the

services are so much better at ISD, that maybe it'd be silly to move her

back. But we went to ISD's homecoming on Friday and realized how very

different the culture is. Does it do her a better service to let her become

a part of that or not? I don't know if she really fits in there - since

she's not Deaf. But she doesn't totally fit in with our neighborhood kids

either - but at least that's the culture of her family. I don't know. I'm

very confused right now and just gathering info and thinking and pondering

and watching and waiting for the best idea to show itself. I think it'll

all become more apparent over time. But it may be one of those things that

remains confusing!

Michele

[Guest guest]

Michele,

I am not sure I have anything spectacular to add to this, but I am thinking that

at the end of one full academic year, you may have your answer. Give it the

full year and at the end you (because you are YOU and so smart) will be able to

evaluate if Aubrie has gained/loss any of the things you are worried about.

That is my pithy comment for the day--

pam

RE: academics in smaller classrooms

-

This is exactly what my concern is. I just don't know how to compare the

academics in her current setting with her old setting because it's like

apples and oranges. And if I ask the folks at the deaf school if they're

keeping up, of course they'll say yes. Either because they truly are,

because they think they are, or because they want me to think they are. So

how to figure it out for myself? I may contact the parent of the boy who

recently switched from there to our local district as a high school

freshman. She'd know how he was academically. And she has another child

who was educated always in public school (not hearing impaired) so she has a

good yardstick for measuring.

To make matters worse, I don't really know where Aubrie should be

academically. Perhaps it's not in her best interest to keep up with the

regular curriculum and pace. Maybe she really does need it slower. But

maybe not. I don't know. Her grades only began to slip last year. I don't

know if it's the content or the pace that is a problem for her. I know

there are things she really doesn't understand in a way that I expect her to

at her age.

And, I had thought she'd return to our home school next year. But the

services are so much better at ISD, that maybe it'd be silly to move her

back. But we went to ISD's homecoming on Friday and realized how very

different the culture is. Does it do her a better service to let her become

a part of that or not? I don't know if she really fits in there - since

she's not Deaf. But she doesn't totally fit in with our neighborhood kids

either - but at least that's the culture of her family. I don't know. I'm

very confused right now and just gathering info and thinking and pondering

and watching and waiting for the best idea to show itself. I think it'll

all become more apparent over time. But it may be one of those things that

remains confusing!

Michele

[Guest guest]

aubrie was a bit like me i never fitted into a totaly special school and

never fited into mainstream but the sepeical unit supprot calsses i did

>

> Michele,

> I am not sure I have anything spectacular to add to this, but I am

> thinking that at the end of one full academic year, you may have your

> answer. Give it the full year and at the end you (because you are YOU and so

> smart) will be able to evaluate if Aubrie has gained/loss any of the things

> you are worried about. That is my pithy comment for the day--

> pam

>

> RE: academics in smaller classrooms

>

> -

>

> This is exactly what my concern is. I just don't know how to compare the

> academics in her current setting with her old setting because it's like

> apples and oranges. And if I ask the folks at the deaf school if they're

> keeping up, of course they'll say yes. Either because they truly are,

> because they think they are, or because they want me to think they are. So

> how to figure it out for myself? I may contact the parent of the boy who

> recently switched from there to our local district as a high school

> freshman. She'd know how he was academically. And she has another child

> who was educated always in public school (not hearing impaired) so she has

> a

> good yardstick for measuring.

>

> To make matters worse, I don't really know where Aubrie should be

> academically. Perhaps it's not in her best interest to keep up with the

> regular curriculum and pace. Maybe she really does need it slower. But

> maybe not. I don't know. Her grades only began to slip last year. I don't

> know if it's the content or the pace that is a problem for her. I know

> there are things she really doesn't understand in a way that I expect her

> to

> at her age.

>

> And, I had thought she'd return to our home school next year. But the

> services are so much better at ISD, that maybe it'd be silly to move her

> back. But we went to ISD's homecoming on Friday and realized how very

> different the culture is. Does it do her a better service to let her

> become

> a part of that or not? I don't know if she really fits in there - since

> she's not Deaf. But she doesn't totally fit in with our neighborhood kids

> either - but at least that's the culture of her family. I don't know. I'm

> very confused right now and just gathering info and thinking and pondering

> and watching and waiting for the best idea to show itself. I think it'll

> all become more apparent over time. But it may be one of those things that

> remains confusing!

>

> Michele

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pam - I think you're right. But you know me; I don't like having to wait

a whole year for an answer. I want it to show itself now <<whine>>.

Michele

_____

From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of

pamela.ryan@...

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 4:02 PM

To: CHARGE

Subject: RE: academics in smaller classrooms

Michele,

I am not sure I have anything spectacular to add to this, but I am thinking

that at the end of one full academic year, you may have your answer. Give it

the full year and at the end you (because you are YOU and so smart) will be

able to evaluate if Aubrie has gained/loss any of the things you are worried

about. That is my pithy comment for the day--

pam

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

What were the special unit support classes like?

Michele

_____

From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of

ellen howe

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 7:47 PM

To: CHARGE

Subject: Re: academics in smaller classrooms

aubrie was a bit like me i never fitted into a totaly special school and

never fited into mainstream but the sepeical unit supprot calsses i did

[Guest guest]

i hate wating im allwasy wating for soemthing help LOL we all r arent we

>

> Pam - I think you're right. But you know me; I don't like having to wait

> a whole year for an answer. I want it to show itself now <<whine>>.

>

> Michele

>

> _____

>

> From: CHARGE <CHARGE%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:

> CHARGE <CHARGE%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of

> pamela.ryan@... <pamela.ryan%40perkins.org>

> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 4:02 PM

> To: CHARGE <CHARGE%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: RE: academics in smaller classrooms

>

> Michele,

> I am not sure I have anything spectacular to add to this, but I am

> thinking

> that at the end of one full academic year, you may have your answer. Give

> it

> the full year and at the end you (because you are YOU and so smart) will

> be

> able to evaluate if Aubrie has gained/loss any of the things you are

> worried

> about. That is my pithy comment for the day--

> pam

>

>

[Guest guest]

they were kinda liek aubries i guess classes of up to seven people with an

aid and teacher and there would b an aid or teachers to help with mainschool

to for people who did tat it was great they knew everyones indevidual needs

and met them all my bestest friendes r from the speical unit at bamain i

made soem ones in mainschool to who i talk to they al understood me and

everyone else the teachers would allow me to do eather the class work or any

mainstream work i needed to catch up on and theyd help me if they needed to

i had hearing and vision teachers who were the best they were one on one

with me and they would concentrate on study skills and stuff they allwasy

helped me and they allwasy helped everyone else we had three classes im the

unit it was the best and i loved it

>

> Ellen-

>

> What were the special unit support classes like?

>

> Michele

>

> _____

>

> From: CHARGE <CHARGE%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:

> CHARGE <CHARGE%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of

> ellen howe

> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 7:47 PM

> To: CHARGE <CHARGE%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: academics in smaller classrooms

>

> aubrie was a bit like me i never fitted into a totaly special school and

> never fited into mainstream but the sepeical unit supprot calsses i did

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michele,

you made me smile: I can hear it, feel it, and totally whine with you-waiting is

sooo hard.

pam

RE: academics in smaller classrooms

Michele,

I am not sure I have anything spectacular to add to this, but I am thinking

that at the end of one full academic year, you may have your answer. Give it

the full year and at the end you (because you are YOU and so smart) will be

able to evaluate if Aubrie has gained/loss any of the things you are worried

about. That is my pithy comment for the day--

pam

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

Yes, it does sound a bit like Aubrie's class now. There are so many good

things happening for her - I just wish those things could happen in our home

school. But, wishing won't do anything, will it? So, I guess I'll wait and

see how things develop and then make a decision for next year.

Have a good week!

Michele

_____

From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of

ellen howe

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:35 PM

To: CHARGE

Subject: Re: academics in smaller classrooms

they were kinda liek aubries i guess classes of up to seven people with an

aid and teacher and there would b an aid or teachers to help with mainschool

to for people who did tat it was great they knew everyones indevidual needs

and met them all my bestest friendes r from the speical unit at bamain i

made soem ones in mainschool to who i talk to they al understood me and

everyone else the teachers would allow me to do eather the class work or any

mainstream work i needed to catch up on and theyd help me if they needed to

i had hearing and vision teachers who were the best they were one on one

with me and they would concentrate on study skills and stuff they allwasy

helped me and they allwasy helped everyone else we had three classes im the

unit it was the best and i loved it