Re: On the subject of Epi Pens w/o a 'script

[Guest guest]

> I have never heard of a law that allows an EMT basic to but an Epi-pen

> without a script. Please direct me to some proof of this law.

>

You don't need a law to allow it. We do not have regulated scope of

practice in Texas. All you need is medical director authorization.

The proposed law would REQUIRE epi pens on BLS units. It is already

" allowed " .

I've heard this sort of thing said many times... " the State does (or does not)

allow EMT's to do x " or paramedics to do y. Simply NOT true. There is no

limit to what EMS personnel can do in Texas, except the independant practice

of medicine (e.g., we must operate under physician direction, and there are

legal limits to how " open " SDO's can be).

Within that framework, an EMT can do anything that his/her medical director

authorizes him/her to do.

, BS, LP

President

Central Texas Regional EMS

office

www.centraltexasems.com

Faculty, Temple College EMS Professions

Member, Air Medical Committee, GETAC

**************************************

See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

HEALTH & SAFETY CODE

CHAPTER 773. EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES

SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

§ 773.014. ADMINISTRATION OF EPINEPHRINE. (a) An

emergency medical services provider and a first responder

organization may acquire and possess epinephrine auto-injector

devices in accordance with this section. Emergency medical

services personnel certified as emergency medical technicians or at

a higher level of training may carry and administer epinephrine

auto-injector devices in accordance with this section.

( The department shall adopt rules designed to protect the

public health and safety to implement this section. The rules must

provide that emergency medical services personnel certified as

emergency medical technicians or at a higher level of training may

administer an epinephrine auto-injector device to another only if

the person has successfully completed a training course, approved

by the department, in the use of the device that is consistent with

the national standard training curriculum for emergency medical

technicians.

© An emergency medical services provider or first

responder organization may acquire, possess, maintain, and dispose

of epinephrine auto-injector devices, and emergency medical

services personnel certified as emergency medical technicians or at

a higher level of training may carry, maintain, administer, and

dispose of epinephrine auto-injector devices, only in accordance

with:

(1) rules adopted by the department under this

section; and

(2) a delegated practice agreement that provides for

medical supervision by a licensed physician who either:

(A) acts as a medical director for an emergency

medical services system or a licensed hospital; or

( has knowledge and experience in the delivery

of emergency care.

(d) Emergency medical services personnel who administer

epinephrine auto-injector devices to others shall immediately

report the use to the physician supervising the activities of the

emergency medical services personnel.

(e) The administration of an epinephrine auto-injector

device to another under this section is considered to be the

administration of emergency care for the purposes of any statute

relating to liability for the provision of emergency care. The

administration of an epinephrine auto-injector device to another in

accordance with the requirements of this section does not

constitute the unlawful practice of any health care profession.

(f) A person otherwise authorized to sell or provide an

epinephrine auto-injector device to another may sell or provide the

devices to an emergency medical services provider or a first

responder organization authorized to acquire and possess the

devices under this section.

(g) This section does not prevent emergency medical

services personnel who are also licensed health care professionals

under another health care licensing law and who are authorized to

acquire, possess, and administer an epinephrine auto-injector

device under the other health care licensing law from acting under

the other law.

(h) This section does not impose a standard of care not

otherwise required by law.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 874, § 4, eff. Jan. 1, 2002;

Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1131, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 2002.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

EMT's are only allowed to administer the Patient's Epi-Pen provided it is

prescribed to the patient not the EMT, and this is only after consulting medical

control, whether on line or standing order. I have never heard of a law that

allows an EMT basic to but an Epi-pen without a script. Please direct me to

some proof of this law.

________________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

see that's what I thought the law was. I work for a transport company here in

the dallas area. TDH came in and told us that we had to carry an epi pen but I

wondered what good it would do since it was not prescribed for any patient

" bdaley4@... " wrote: EMT's are only allowed to

administer the Patient's Epi-Pen provided it is prescribed to the patient not

the EMT, and this is only after consulting medical control, whether on line or

standing order. I have never heard of a law that allows an EMT basic to but an

Epi-pen without a script. Please direct me to some proof of this law.

__________________________________________________________

Interested in getting caught up on today's news?

Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954 & u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm?csp\

=24

[Guest guest]

BD,

The medical director can allow anybody to administer an Epi-Pen from the

ambulance's stock by protocol and standing order in Texas. The regs allow

that.

There is no specific law authorizing that, but it is within the power of the

medical director to do it. In fact, the medical director can authorize

almost anything short of brain surgery to be done by any level of certificant.

Physicians teach their office assistants to give injections, draw blood, and

all sorts of other things without nearly as much training as a Basic EMT has.

That's not true in many other states. We are very fortunate in Texas to

have medical director driven scope of practice rather than a set state-wide

scope

of practice like the Feds would like for us to have.

Let's be sure we don't let that happen to us. Can you imagine having to get

the Legislature to change the law every time a new drug came out or a new

device, like the EZ-IO came out, before we could implement it? We would still

be doing the EGTA in Texas rather than intubating if we had to rely on the Lege

to implement the changes.

What you have stated is probably your service's policy. Policy and law are

two different things. Now, I am not able to find the supposed law that

allows an EMT to purchase an Epi-Pen without a prescription. All drugs carried

on

the ambulances in Texas are obtained from the medical director's

prescription. So if there is such a law, I cannot find it after a search of

the Texas

Statutes. If it exists and somebody knows the citation to it, please present

it. I would appreciate that.

Bottom line: If your medical director wishes to allow Basic EMTs to

administer an Epi--Pen from your ambulance's drug box, all he or she has to do

is

write the protocol, identify those persons who are allowed to carry out the

protocol, write a standing order and sign it, write a prescription for the

Epi-Pens, order them, and it's done.

This new bill would force all medical directors to authorize the service to

carry Epi-Pens and make them train Basic EMTs to give them.

I have mixed emotions about it. I can't understand why any medical director

hasn't already done that. Thus, I don't know why the law is needed. But

maybe there are some services that do as you described, only allow Basic EMTs to

administer the patient's own Epi-Pen. That doesn't make a lot of sense,

does it? If the patient runs to the store for some bread, gets stung by a bee,

goes into anaphylaxis, and lives or dies depending on whether or not she

remembered to bring her Epi-Pen with her, that makes no sense at all. Every

ambulance ought to have epi available for administration by all levels of

provider

from the ambulance's own stock.

Some will argue that Epi is a dangerous drug and that basic EMTs should not

be able to give it except when the patient has it already prescribed.

Try telling that to a jury when you get sued for failure to exercise standard

of care in the treatment of a critically ill patient with an allergic

reaction. It won't fly. You and your medical director will all be getting

out

your checkbooks and cleaning out your bank accounts to pay the deductable from

your malpractice policy, if you are lucky enough to have bought one.

Basic EMTs can and should be taught to recognize situations where Epi is

called for and to administer it.

Gene G.

>

> EMT's are only allowed to administer the Patient's Epi-Pen provided it is

> prescribed to the patient not the EMT, and this is only after consulting

> medical control, whether on line or standing order. I have never heard of a

law

> that allows an EMT basic to but an Epi-pen without a script. Please direct me

to

> some proof of this law.

>

> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________

> Interested in getting caught up on today's news?

> Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

> http://track.http://trhttp://track. & <wbr>u=ht<wbr>u=http:/<wbr>u=ht<wbr>

> u=htt<wbr>u

>

>

[Guest guest]

's " Da Man! " He knows whereof he speaks. Thank you .

GG

>

>

>

>

> > I have never heard of a law that allows an EMT basic to but an Epi-pen

> > without a script. Please direct me to some proof of this law.

> >

>

> You don't need a law to allow it. We do not have regulated scope of

> practice in Texas. All you need is medical director authorization.

>

> The proposed law would REQUIRE epi pens on BLS units. It is already

> " allowed " .

>

> I've heard this sort of thing said many times... " the State does (or does

> not)

> allow EMT's to do x " or paramedics to do y. Simply NOT true. There is no

> limit to what EMS personnel can do in Texas, except the independant practice

> of medicine (e.g., we must operate under physician direction, and there are

> legal limits to how " open " SDO's can be).

>

> Within that framework, an EMT can do anything that his/her medical director

> authorizes him/her to do.

>

>

>

> , BS, LP

> President

> Central Texas Regional EMS

> office

> www.centraltexasems www

> Faculty, Temple College EMS Professions

> Member, Air Medical Committee, GETAC

>

> ************ ******** ******** *******

> See what's free at http://www.aol.http

>

>

[Guest guest]

There appears to be some confusion.

One poster stated that a law was on the books that would allow an EMT to

purchase from a pharmacy, an Epi Pen.

Someone asked for proof of such a law.

This is completely seperate from what DSHS would requires, or allows.

So the original questions still stands.

If there is a law on the books that would allow an EMT to purchase, from

apharmacy, an Epi pen without a prescription, can anyone show proof of that law?

Mike

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

www.canyonlakefire-ems.org

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: DPEMS500@...

Reply-To: texasems-l

Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 20:50:04 EDT

>

>

>

>

>> I have never heard of a law that allows an EMT basic to but an Epi-pen

>> without a script. Please direct me to some proof of this law.

>>

>

>You don't need a law to allow it. We do not have regulated scope of

>practice in Texas. All you need is medical director authorization.

>

>The proposed law would REQUIRE epi pens on BLS units. It is already

> " allowed " .

>

>I've heard this sort of thing said many times... " the State does (or does not)

>allow EMT's to do x " or paramedics to do y. Simply NOT true. There is no

>limit to what EMS personnel can do in Texas, except the independant practice

>of medicine (e.g., we must operate under physician direction, and there are

>legal limits to how " open " SDO's can be).

>

>Within that framework, an EMT can do anything that his/her medical director

>authorizes him/her to do.

>

>

>

>

>

> , BS, LP

>President

>Central Texas Regional EMS

>office

>www.centraltexasems.com

>Faculty, Temple College EMS Professions

>Member, Air Medical Committee, GETAC

>

>

>

>**************************************

> See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>TDH came in

Who?!?!?

Please accept the token hand slap, and for further reference, they are 'DSHS'

(pronounced DISHES).....

Kidding Maxie...just kidding.....

________________________________________________________________

Sent via the WebMail system at Neopolis.net

[Guest guest]

Sorry Texas Department of Health

Hatfield wrote:

>>TDH came in

Who?!?!?

Please accept the token hand slap, and for further reference, they are 'DSHS'

(pronounced DISHES).....

Kidding Maxie...just kidding.....

__________________________________________________________

Sent via the WebMail system at Neopolis.net

There are lots of potholes in the road of life

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[Guest guest]

Whoever keeps changing the name of TDH is

electroencephalographically-challenged.

In my tenure:

Texas Department of Health (TDH)

Texas Department of Health Resources (TDHR)

Texas Department of Health and Human Services (THHHS)

Texas Department of State Health Services (TDSHS)

Perhaps we should return to the old names:

Texas free VD clinic (where love is blind and has no sense of smell)

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of shannon beltran

Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:54 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: On the subject of Epi Pens w/o a 'script

Sorry Texas Department of Health

Hatfield <hatfield@... <mailto:hatfield%40neopolis.net> >

wrote:

From: shannon beltran <angelzwings2000@...

<mailto:angelzwings2000%40yahoo.com> >

>>TDH came in

Who?!?!?

Please accept the token hand slap, and for further reference, they are

'DSHS' (pronounced DISHES).....

Kidding Maxie...just kidding.....

__________________________________________________________

Sent via the WebMail system at Neopolis.net

There are lots of potholes in the road of life

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