Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 If you feel like Benedict Arnold, you are being held captive by your partner. Andy ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done}, and being drunk on duty. I do believe that some people in this business are too quick to cover their own hind ends, in lieu of remembering that we are supposed to be an extended family, and family protects it's own. How quick would you be willing to turn in your own family member? Do we have to draw a line in regards to " what happens on the truck stays on the truck " , common sense says we do. But this just happens to be another rarity in this business. Some parts of our " good ol boys and girls system " should stay in place, like loyalty, honor, and pride in what we do. I'm sure some you grew up in this business just like I did, and know what I mean when I say, times have changed for the worse in some respects and the family is dieing. Question???? Hey Guys, have a question.. One of the guys I work with got some pictures in his Email that were taken in the back of an ambulance .. the pics were graphic and of the patient's injuries and his face. I'm pretty sure the patient didn't consent to having his pic plastered in Emails to this EMT's buddies. who do you report stuff like this to and should I be reporting it after all the E-mail wasn't to me. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision. <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mailbeta/ features_ spam.html> webevents.yahoo. com/mailbeta/ features_ spam.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Perhaps you could explain the difference for those of us who don't understand. And, by the way, there's no such thing as something " staying on the truck. " Somehow, things always get out. Somebody talks, drops a hint, et cetera. People cannot keep their mouths shut. People go out and kill somebody without witnesses, then brag to somebody at a bar about it. So you think you're protecting your partner, then your partner snitches on himself, and suddenly your rear is in the fire. Good luck. Remember the adage " there is no honor among thieves? " Even the Mafia dons fell because the " Code of Silence " breaks sooner or later. Don't be naive. Gene Gandy, JD, LP > > There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done}, and > being drunk on duty. I do believe that some people in this business are too > quick to cover their own hind ends, in lieu of remembering that we are > supposed to be an extended family, and family protects it's own. How quick would > you be willing to turn in your own family member? Do we have to draw a line in > regards to " what happens on the truck stays on the truck " , common sense says > we do. But this just happens to be another rarity in this business. Some > parts of our " good ol boys and girls system " should stay in place, like loyalty, > honor, and pride in what we do. I'm sure some you grew up in this business > just like I did, and know what I mean when I say, times have changed for the > worse in some respects and the family is dieing. > > Question???? > > Hey Guys, > > have a question.. One of the guys I work with got some pictures in his > Email that were taken in the back of an ambulance .. the pics were > graphic and of the patient's injuries and his face. I'm pretty sure > the patient didn't consent to having his pic plastered in Emails to > this EMT's buddies. who do you report stuff like this to and should I > be reporting it after all the E-mail wasn't to me. > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision. > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mailbeta/ features_ spam.html> > webevents.yahoo. com/mailbeta/ features_ spam.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 So how bout them Astros???? > > The 'good ole boy' system needs to be gone. As far as extended 'family', > I would never put my 'extended family' member in a position to have to > cover my a**. > > Times have changed, and we need to change with them. What may have been > an acceptable practice when I started in this business, is no longer > tolerated. I used my clipboard as an attitude adjuster more than once, > we carried guns in our airway bag, and I had absolutely no qualms about > throwing someone out of my ambulance halfway to the hospital (if they > showed some remorse, I let it come to a complete stop). > > So common sense prevails? Where is the common sense in violating HIPPA? > Where is the common sense in putting not only your own financial status > in jeopardy, but your employers as well. > > So where does the line get drawn? What about the partner who steals from > the patient? What if the patient never finds out? Your loyalty to your > partner lets them remain a thief? Or does pride in what you do cause you > to take action? > > Tell me the limits of what stays on the truck. > > Re: Question???? > > There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done}, > and being drunk on duty. I do believe that some people in this business > are too quick to cover their own hind ends, in lieu of remembering that > we are supposed to be an extended family, and family protects it's own. > How quick would you be willing to turn in your own family member? Do we > have to draw a line in regards to " what happens on the truck stays on > the truck " , common sense says we do. But this just happens to be another > rarity in this business. Some parts of our " good ol boys and girls > system " should stay in place, like loyalty, honor, and pride in what we > do. I'm sure some you grew up in this business just like I did, and know > what I mean when I say, times have changed for the worse in some > respects and the family is dieing. > > Question???? > > Hey Guys, > > have a question.. One of the guys I work with got some pictures in his > Email that were taken in the back of an ambulance .. the pics were > graphic and of the patient's injuries and his face. I'm pretty sure > the patient didn't consent to having his pic plastered in Emails to > this EMT's buddies. who do you report stuff like this to and should I > be reporting it after all the E-mail wasn't to me. > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision. > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mailbeta/ features_ spam.html> > webevents.yahoo. com/mailbeta/ features_ spam.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 The 'good ole boy' system needs to be gone. As far as extended 'family', I would never put my 'extended family' member in a position to have to cover my a**. Times have changed, and we need to change with them. What may have been an acceptable practice when I started in this business, is no longer tolerated. I used my clipboard as an attitude adjuster more than once, we carried guns in our airway bag, and I had absolutely no qualms about throwing someone out of my ambulance halfway to the hospital (if they showed some remorse, I let it come to a complete stop). So common sense prevails? Where is the common sense in violating HIPPA? Where is the common sense in putting not only your own financial status in jeopardy, but your employers as well. So where does the line get drawn? What about the partner who steals from the patient? What if the patient never finds out? Your loyalty to your partner lets them remain a thief? Or does pride in what you do cause you to take action? Tell me the limits of what stays on the truck. Re: Question???? There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done}, and being drunk on duty. I do believe that some people in this business are too quick to cover their own hind ends, in lieu of remembering that we are supposed to be an extended family, and family protects it's own. How quick would you be willing to turn in your own family member? Do we have to draw a line in regards to " what happens on the truck stays on the truck " , common sense says we do. But this just happens to be another rarity in this business. Some parts of our " good ol boys and girls system " should stay in place, like loyalty, honor, and pride in what we do. I'm sure some you grew up in this business just like I did, and know what I mean when I say, times have changed for the worse in some respects and the family is dieing. Question???? Hey Guys, have a question.. One of the guys I work with got some pictures in his Email that were taken in the back of an ambulance .. the pics were graphic and of the patient's injuries and his face. I'm pretty sure the patient didn't consent to having his pic plastered in Emails to this EMT's buddies. who do you report stuff like this to and should I be reporting it after all the E-mail wasn't to me. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision. <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mailbeta/ features_ spam.html> webevents.yahoo. com/mailbeta/ features_ spam.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 LMAO..I love ya man.. Re: Question???? > > There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done}, > and being drunk on duty. I do believe that some people in this business > are too quick to cover their own hind ends, in lieu of remembering that > we are supposed to be an extended family, and family protects it's own. > How quick would you be willing to turn in your own family member? Do we > have to draw a line in regards to " what happens on the truck stays on > the truck " , common sense says we do. But this just happens to be another > rarity in this business. Some parts of our " good ol boys and girls > system " should stay in place, like loyalty, honor, and pride in what we > do. I'm sure some you grew up in this business just like I did, and know > what I mean when I say, times have changed for the worse in some > respects and the family is dieing. > > Question???? > > Hey Guys, > > have a question.. One of the guys I work with got some pictures in his > Email that were taken in the back of an ambulance .. the pics were > graphic and of the patient's injuries and his face. I'm pretty sure > the patient didn't consent to having his pic plastered in Emails to > this EMT's buddies. who do you report stuff like this to and should I > be reporting it after all the E-mail wasn't to me. > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision. > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mailbeta/ features_ spam.html> > webevents.yahoo. com/mailbeta/ features_ spam.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 > > There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done} > Neither I nor any partner I have ever worked with has taken a picture of a patient. In fact, the subject has never even come up as a possibility. reeveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Y'all seem to forget that all of our books that we have studied are chock full of patients pics, so get off your holier than thow high horse. I personally do not carry a camera to work, but do know of people who have. What if the patient had donated his/her body to science, would they care if their pic was taken? And for those of you who are pretending that you have never looked at an e-mail with these pictures and thought " damn that looks bad " . Quit trying to save face, and try to be honest with yourself and everyone else. Is it right to take pics of patients without their approval? Probably not but it does happen. Would I turn my partner in for it? Hell no, I still believe in the brotherhood (and sisterhood), even if none of you do. For those of you who don't believe in it, that might explain the downfall of what used to be a great business to work in. I've seen people of all levels working on trucks both in 911 and transfer, and to watch their patient care and knowledge of medicine, makes you wonder how they ever got their cert to start with. If you want to turn your partner in so bad, do it for crappy patient care, but only after you have talked to him/her about it, and tried to teach them the correct way of pt. care to no avail. This profession I love has turned into just a bunch of people who want to put on the t-shirt and say " look at me " . Do they know anything about the heritage and background of EMS, Fire, or Law Enforcement? Chances are, they do not, nor do they care to learn. I was raised in this business, and my father would have kicked my butt for having this " cover my own ass " attitude that some people in this business appear to have. And for what it's worth, even though we appear to disagree on this topic, each and everyone of you in public services are my brothers and sisters, whether you like it or not. LOL Re: Question???? > > There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done} > Neither I nor any partner I have ever worked with has taken a picture of a patient. In fact, the subject has never even come up as a possibility. reeveo ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 This person could be a troll, but heaven help this profession if this piece of work thinks he is better than those challenging his antiquated " brotherhood " position. Heaven help us if he really believes the profession is better served by people burying heads in the sand than behaving ethically. He doesn't even have the gonads to identify himself properly; won't even sign his message. I wonder how long he would maintain his current employment if his identify became known. For whom do you work, Mr. ? What is the name of this father you describe that would " kick your butt " if you actually did the right thing and behaved in an ethical manner? I'd like to ask him if this truly his position or possibly his son's mistaken interpretation. Who is Rick to be lecturing the rest of us? What are your credentials? Step forward and identify yourself Mr. . Roy Strange Silverthorne, Colorado A paramedic who believes in ethics > > > > There is a HUGE difference between taking pics {which we have all done} > > > > Neither I nor any partner I have ever worked with has taken a picture > of a patient. In fact, the subject has never even come up as a > possibility. > > reeveo > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Rick wrote: >>Y'all seem to forget that all of our books that we have studied are chock full of patients pics, so get off your holier than thow high horse. I personally do not carry a camera to work, but do know of people who have. What if the patient had donated his/her body to science, would they care if their pic was taken? And for those of you who are pretending that you have never looked at an e-mail with these pictures and thought " damn that looks bad " . Quit trying to save face, and try to be honest with yourself and everyone else. Is it right to take pics of patients without their approval? Probably not but it does happen. Would I turn my partner in for it? Hell no, I still believe in the brotherhood (and sisterhood), even if none of you do.<< First things first: #1. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, despite the fact that your reply here begs a confrontation. I believe in the brotherhood of public safety every bit as much as you do, Rick. I just don't agree with your interpretation of it. #2. All those EMT textbook photos were either a) staged or given or sold to the publisher by the respective photographers. And all the models signed releases. Whether this is true of the e-mail pics in this situation remains to be seen. Neither you nor I know. In any case, your argument is invalid. #3. This rule of silence you refer to is but one of the reasons this profession has not progressed. Your words " WHAT HAPPENS ON THE TRUCK STAYS ON THE TRUCK " are just wrong. WRONG. Some of the things that happen on the truck don't merit a second chance, and damned well need to be reported when they happen. Your blanket statement has no place in ANY profession, much less EMS, fire or law enforcement. Good partners back eachother up. We both agree on that. Loyalty and trust are important. But a partner who puts you in the position of having to cover up for lies, fraud, theft, breach of confidentiality or whatever offense, is undeserving of such loyalty. #4. You say, " If you want to turn your partner in so bad, do it for crappy patient care, but only after you have talked to him/her about it, and tried to teach them the correct way of pt. care to no avail. " Who said anybody *wants* to turn in their partner so bad, other than the original poster? Most of the replies in this thread advised taking the issue up with the partner *first.* What we took issue with was your assertion that the poster needs to shut up and say nothing. You're sacrificing integrity in favor of loyalty. This profession needs both. So crappy patient care is the only offense that matters? By your example, if my partner worked a code on a cancer patient and worked it flawlessly, but turned around and stole the patient's Oxycontin from the bedside table, he has done nothing to be reported for. HORSESHIT. If my partner did such a thing, I don't give a rat's ass how good a medic he is. Out of loyalty, I'm giving him ONE chance to make it right. Promising never to do it again is NOT good enough. What IS good enough is admitting to management that he has a substance abuse problem ON HIS OWN, and getting help. He's got 23 hours and 59 minutes to do that, or I turn him in. Loyalty buys him a 24 hour window to get help for his problem. If he weren't my partner, he wouldn't even get that. Now that I think about it, he'd only get that window if it were drugs he was taking, because he *might* have a substance abuse problem that the company is required to give him counseling for. If, for example, he was stealing the patient's jewelry, he'd get turned in immediately after the call. I won't work with a thief. But hey, if you have no problem with someone who can lie, steal or can't keep his mouth shut, as long as he's technically competent, more power to you. Give me the number for your HR department and I'll send a number of gifted but morally bankrupt medics your way. You're just the kind of partner they've always wanted. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 OK, My words seem to have been misconstrued. I do NOT believe in theft of any kind, and theft is not the topic of this conversation. I made an earlier post that stated " there had to be a line drawn on, what happens on the truck, stays on the truck " , and I do not believe that taking pics warrants betraying the loyalty that 2 partners are supposed to have to each other. I do however believe that theft, shotty patient care, and drug abuse, among others are a reason to cross that line, but only after giving your partner the same respect that you expect him to give you, and that is a chance to fix the problem his or herself. Without loyalty among the ranks you have nothing, and Lord knows when a call goes downhill, an unloyal partner will not be watching your back while he bolts out of site. I do not think I am better than anyone in this business as previously stated by someone here, fact is I try to learn from those smarter than I everyday. I do however know that in 21 years of being in public service, I've never left anyone behind, no matter how bad it got. Loyalty, conscience, and a strong belief in our extended family are the reasons why. Re: Re: Question???? Rick wrote: >>Y'all seem to forget that all of our books that we have studied are chock full of patients pics, so get off your holier than thow high horse. I personally do not carry a camera to work, but do know of people who have. What if the patient had donated his/her body to science, would they care if their pic was taken? And for those of you who are pretending that you have never looked at an e-mail with these pictures and thought " damn that looks bad " . Quit trying to save face, and try to be honest with yourself and everyone else. Is it right to take pics of patients without their approval? Probably not but it does happen. Would I turn my partner in for it? Hell no, I still believe in the brotherhood (and sisterhood), even if none of you do.<< First things first: #1. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, despite the fact that your reply here begs a confrontation. I believe in the brotherhood of public safety every bit as much as you do, Rick. I just don't agree with your interpretation of it. #2. All those EMT textbook photos were either a) staged or given or sold to the publisher by the respective photographers. And all the models signed releases. Whether this is true of the e-mail pics in this situation remains to be seen. Neither you nor I know. In any case, your argument is invalid. #3. This rule of silence you refer to is but one of the reasons this profession has not progressed. Your words " WHAT HAPPENS ON THE TRUCK STAYS ON THE TRUCK " are just wrong. WRONG. Some of the things that happen on the truck don't merit a second chance, and damned well need to be reported when they happen. Your blanket statement has no place in ANY profession, much less EMS, fire or law enforcement. Good partners back eachother up. We both agree on that. Loyalty and trust are important. But a partner who puts you in the position of having to cover up for lies, fraud, theft, breach of confidentiality or whatever offense, is undeserving of such loyalty. #4. You say, " If you want to turn your partner in so bad, do it for crappy patient care, but only after you have talked to him/her about it, and tried to teach them the correct way of pt. care to no avail. " Who said anybody *wants* to turn in their partner so bad, other than the original poster? Most of the replies in this thread advised taking the issue up with the partner *first.* What we took issue with was your assertion that the poster needs to shut up and say nothing. You're sacrificing integrity in favor of loyalty. This profession needs both. So crappy patient care is the only offense that matters? By your example, if my partner worked a code on a cancer patient and worked it flawlessly, but turned around and stole the patient's Oxycontin from the bedside table, he has done nothing to be reported for. HORSESHIT. If my partner did such a thing, I don't give a rat's ass how good a medic he is. Out of loyalty, I'm giving him ONE chance to make it right. Promising never to do it again is NOT good enough. What IS good enough is admitting to management that he has a substance abuse problem ON HIS OWN, and getting help. He's got 23 hours and 59 minutes to do that, or I turn him in. Loyalty buys him a 24 hour window to get help for his problem. If he weren't my partner, he wouldn't even get that. Now that I think about it, he'd only get that window if it were drugs he was taking, because he *might* have a substance abuse problem that the company is required to give him counseling for. If, for example, he was stealing the patient's jewelry, he'd get turned in immediately after the call. I won't work with a thief. But hey, if you have no problem with someone who can lie, steal or can't keep his mouth shut, as long as he's technically competent, more power to you. Give me the number for your HR department and I'll send a number of gifted but morally bankrupt medics your way. You're just the kind of partner they've always wanted. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 >>I do however believe that theft, shotty patient care, and drug abuse, among others are a reason to cross that line, but only after giving your partner the same respect that you expect him to give you, and that is a chance to fix the problem his or herself. Without loyalty among the ranks you have nothing, and Lord knows when a call goes downhill, an unloyal partner will not be watching your back while he bolts out of site.<< Then we agree 100%. Didn't mean to misconstrue your statements. But I submit to you that this clarifcation is much more reasonable than " what happens on the truck stays on the truck. " The problem is, it's a slippery slope, Rick. Not everyone has the same moral standards, and thus where the line is drawn gets very fuzzy. Grayson ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 I agree, it does get fuzzy. Re: Re: Question???? >>I do however believe that theft, shotty patient care, and drug abuse, among others are a reason to cross that line, but only after giving your partner the same respect that you expect him to give you, and that is a chance to fix the problem his or herself. Without loyalty among the ranks you have nothing, and Lord knows when a call goes downhill, an unloyal partner will not be watching your back while he bolts out of site.<< Then we agree 100%. Didn't mean to misconstrue your statements. But I submit to you that this clarifcation is much more reasonable than " what happens on the truck stays on the truck. " The problem is, it's a slippery slope, Rick. Not everyone has the same moral standards, and thus where the line is drawn gets very fuzzy. Grayson ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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