Bad reaction to Folinic Acid or B12?

[Guest guest]

My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to

have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After

that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems

like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just

a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic,

too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try

the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the

shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute

worst morning he has had in a long time.

So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12,

what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of

you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad

thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is

supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

Thanks,

Cathy

[Guest guest]

Maybe he doesn't need the folinic anymore?To: mb12valtrex Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 10:17:58 AMSubject: Bad reaction to Folinic Acid or B12?

My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

Thanks,

Cathy

[Guest guest]

Have you tried 5-MTHF?  I've also been reading around that folinic acid can increase histimines (so with 5-MTHF, your problem might not be resolved).  Maybe an anti-histimine would level things off?  It's also allergy season right now (my head feels like it's going to explode without an anti-histimine).   Maybe the folinic increases the histimines but it's also compounded by possible environmental allergies which is making it worse and more noticeable now? 

I would try an anti-histimine before 5-MTHF. 

 

My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

Thanks,

Cathy

[Guest guest]

Cathy,We did not necessarily see a negative reaction but the gains we had seen early on had long since become a part of his reality. After a year on the shots we tested the blood and his levels were so high they were undefinable. I have since cut back to injecting once per week and will soon move to twice a month. We still supplement folinic ( this is not new- he's taken folapro for 5 years) and do other things that appear to help methylation, since that was always the point of the shots. Hope this is useful info,Sent from my iPhone

My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

Thanks,

Cathy

[Guest guest]

After 1 year, my son couldn't do the shots anymore. We tried to add MB12 back (oral, not shots) and it took only 3 months for him to react badly to it. It happens. It's a good thing. Now you don't need to buy MB12. And yes, we were also doing 5MTHF/folapro. We also did HB12 for a while. I'd just let it go if it's starting to be a negative.

~Antiviral Therapy 101~ http://www.gryffins-tail.blogspot.com ~~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

Thanks,

Cathy

[Guest guest]

You may need the other methylation/sulfation supports, like b6/p5p, magnesium, b2/r5p.My son is also double heterozygous but he can't take mb12 daily. When I do give him mb12 (oral) it is with his iron pill and a folinic acid. I am all out of 5-mthf so I have been using the folinic acid. I am looking into getting some hydroxy b12.

But he takes b6, magnesium, r5p (reduced b2), biotin, p5p(reduced b6) two to three times daily.And I give other things to help anxiety like Gaba and NADH (reduced b3 aka niacin) once a day.The B's all like to work together. The Magnesium is important b/c without adequate supply, the B6 can't work right and B6 cannot work properly without B2 also.

Supplementing Bs is a pain in the butt. :-) I guess literally for some ;-)

 

My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

Thanks,

Cathy

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

Yes, definitely take him off it, at least for a while. And try reducing

mb12 to say a 1/3 of what you are giving now. I am hearing that a lot -

kids who do well on it for a while and then just hit the ceiling and

start sliding down. There could be many reasons, but also can be just

too many methylators leading to a pardoxical methylation block

(resulting in lowering cysteine and glutathione)

Our son could never tolerate any folinic in any shape or form, even the

smallest dose would send him bonkers. Mb12 never had any effect, good or

bad.

Natasa

>

> Maybe he doesn't need the folinic anymore?

>

> Bad reaction to Folinic Acid or B12?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He

seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic

acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently

(possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but

I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his

shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday,

Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday

and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I

forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning

he has had in a long time.

>

> So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic

acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your

child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for

awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of

each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the

rest of his life.

>

> Thanks,

> Cathy

>

[Guest guest]

Why dont you have P5P added to the mixture to balance out the other two?

>

> My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to

have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After

that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems

like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just

a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic,

too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try

the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the

shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute

worst morning he has had in a long time.

>

> So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or

mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did

any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a

bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is

supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

>

> Thanks,

> Cathy

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone. We have decide to pull both the shots and the folinic for now.

Then we will try the shots back in without the folinic and see how that goes.

Then we can try folinic again if we feel we need to. The histamine information

was really interesting, too and something to consider. What type of

antihistamine do you give?

Cathy

[Guest guest]

I can't remember if I responded, but you may need folate. -TammyTo: mb12valtrex Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 8:14 AMSubject: Re: Bad reaction to Folinic Acid or B12?

Thanks everyone. We have decide to pull both the shots and the folinic for now. Then we will try the shots back in without the folinic and see how that goes. Then we can try folinic again if we feel we need to. The histamine information was really interesting, too and something to consider. What type of antihistamine do you give?

Cathy

[Guest guest]

I haven't personally hit the histimine problem yet with my daughter, but I've been reading about it happening to a lot of people in the beyondgfcf group.  This was a while ago but I think a number of people may have been trying Benedryl?

 

Thanks everyone. We have decide to pull both the shots and the folinic for now. Then we will try the shots back in without the folinic and see how that goes. Then we can try folinic again if we feel we need to. The histamine information was really interesting, too and something to consider. What type of antihistamine do you give?

Cathy

[Guest guest]

Ketotifen is also worth considering if you can get it (rx only, can be

compounded) as it is also a powerful antiinflammatory. Another otc

antihistamine, apart from benedryl (cetirizine) used by asd docs is

claritin/loratadine.

Natasa

>

> I haven't personally hit the histimine problem yet with my daughter,

but

> I've been reading about it happening to a lot of people in the

beyondgfcf

> group. This was a while ago but I think a number of people may have

been

> trying Benedryl?

>

>

>

> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Callari cathcall@...wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Thanks everyone. We have decide to pull both the shots and the

folinic for

> > now. Then we will try the shots back in without the folinic and see

how that

> > goes. Then we can try folinic again if we feel we need to. The

histamine

> > information was really interesting, too and something to consider.

What type

> > of antihistamine do you give?

> >

> > Cathy

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cathy,

I was also concerned about MB12 shots and 5-MTHF as my son was extremely

hyperactive this summer. He could not even fall asleep easily as he had

uncontrollable movements which almost seemed like tics. I stopped the shot and

5-MTHF for about 10 days and noticed that his hyperactivity improved but he also

lost his focus and he seemed to have lack of energy. I felt that overall he

regressed after discontinuation of shots. So I restarted the shot and mthf and

hyperactivity came back but this time I also started him on curcumin capsule and

for the first time in atleast 6 months, I feel like my son is more aware of

surroundings and is able to express his needs better. So I would also suggest

using some anti-inflammatory or anti-allergy when you restart the shot and

5-MTHF. I so far love curcumin as it is an antioxidant and antiinflammatory

agent and also decreases microbial overgrowth.

is

>s

> My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to

have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After

that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems

like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just

a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic,

too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try

the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the

shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute

worst morning he has had in a long time.

>

> So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or

mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did

any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a

bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is

supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

>

> Thanks,

> Cathy

>

[Guest guest]

Has your son had elevated homocysteine in past lab work? You might consider adding trimethylglycine (betaine). Dr. Jill likes the trio of TMG, folinic acid and B12. I've attached her slide lecture for you to see. Look at slide 25 and slide 45. I have been told the dose could be as high as 1000 mg. We use this product: which is 750

mg. http://www.vitacost.com/allergy-research-group-tmg-trimethylglycine/?csrc=gpf-713947732308 & xve=%2fallergy-research-group-tmg-trimethylglycine & xve=%2fallergy-research-group-tmg-trimethylglycine Hope it helps your son,Alyssa ___________________________________ TMG is an important cofactor in methylation, a process that occurs in every cell of mammals to

synthesize and donate methyl groups (CH3) for other processes in the body. These processes include the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as dopamine, serotonin. Methylation is also required for the biosynthesis of melatonin and the electron transport chain constituent coenzyme Q10. The major step in the methylation cycle is the remethylation of homocysteine, which can occur via either of two pathways. The major pathway involves the enzyme methionine synthase, which requires vitamin B12 as a cofactor, and also depends indirectly on folate and various other B vitamins. The minor pathway involves betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase and requires TMG as a cofactor. Betaine is thus involved in the synthesis of many biologically important molecules, and may be even more important in situations where the major pathway for the regeneration of methionine from homocysteine has been compromised by genetic polymorphisms.To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 11:01 PMSubject: Re: Bad reaction to Folinic Acid or B12?

Hi Cathy,

I was also concerned about MB12 shots and 5-MTHF as my son was extremely hyperactive this summer. He could not even fall asleep easily as he had uncontrollable movements which almost seemed like tics. I stopped the shot and 5-MTHF for about 10 days and noticed that his hyperactivity improved but he also lost his focus and he seemed to have lack of energy. I felt that overall he regressed after discontinuation of shots. So I restarted the shot and mthf and hyperactivity came back but this time I also started him on curcumin capsule and for the first time in atleast 6 months, I feel like my son is

more aware of surroundings and is able to express his needs better. So I would also suggest using some anti-inflammatory or anti-allergy when you restart the shot and 5-MTHF. I so far love curcumin as it is an antioxidant and antiinflammatory agent and also decreases microbial overgrowth.

is

>s

> My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

>

> So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

>

> Thanks,

> Cathy

>

1 of 1 File(s)

Jill - PPT slides, glutathione, TMG, folinic acid and B12.ppt

[Guest guest]

Hi is and Cathy -

I found for my son that high doses of B12 without Magnesium caused

hyperactivity, found when pulled it, same thing as is, he lost energy and

focus. Added Magnesium (Natural Calm) and wha la! Magic!

I had read that Magnesium activates B Vitamins. Since then I have gotten a

B-Complex on board and I also supplement magnesium. As of now, we supplement

once every three days. My son is now recovered, but still needs some

supplements. Magnesium helps 'calm' the body, also leads to more focus. (We

also do Feingold, and somewhat lo-oxalate (more like med oxalate)) He is doing

AWESOME!

My Brother, Rob (27) I did the same for, and I found for him (very high doses of

B Complex and Magnesium) also helped his executive function. He can receive

multiple directions, and not have to get me to repeat them over and over (and

over..) There is more of a 'connect' than ever. While B12 (we did shots and

nasal, and now I am doing capsules) was a amazing step for us, I felt like

something was 'missing' -- this is what it was for us. (Rob is also Feingold

and low oxalate, also works GREAT for him.)

We too do daily 'anti-inflammatory' in the form of juicing (celery, ginger, Holy

Basil, pineapple) and for Rob, green tea. (My husband had picked up at a garage

sale for .25 cents " Beyond Aspirin " Newmark and Schulick, and it's all about

great anti inflammatory foods and herbs, but cautions about using things that

isn't a 'whole' food or herbs, because nature creates these foods perfectly

having all the compounds to solve an issue. Juicing solved this problem.

I hope this helps...

laura:)

ps. yes Toni, we need to chat!

> >s

> > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed

to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After

that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems

like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just

a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic,

too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try

the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the

shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute

worst morning he has had in a long time.

> >

> > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or

mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did

any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a

bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is

supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Cathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think I am just piggybacking what was saying, but basically you need the supporting B vits. For hyperactivity, I would try b6 + magnesium. The magnesium is CRUCIAL. Giving b6 without magnesium is pointless.

My son is on high dose of Bs, except the b12 and 5-mthf because they cause all sorts of issues but I am getting ready to try again,esp now that we have mb12 pops coming in the mail soon. Whhheeeee!Our b regimen currently is:

b2 (twinlabs r5p form, says b2 / riboflavin on the front but has r5p on the back) 100mgnadh 5-10 mg or niacin 50-100 mg (niacin causes flushing unless you get the non-flushable variety)b6 250 mgp5p 50 mgmagnesium citrate 200mg

biotin 5000mcgWe do this in the am and sometimes in the pm. When my son is getting irritable or hyper or " silly " or anxious we just do another dose of these.The amount of calm my son has had on this regimen is amazing. We also use 1/2 sudafed in the am for focus but I don't really know if it's necessary anymore, since he didnt have it this weekend and seemed fine without it. He has been level headed and using his words, even when angry (big thing for him as his old style was dumping bookshelves over, throwing stuff, punching, etc)

I think I am going to try folinic and b12 after school so he doesn't spend all day sucking his fingers there. LOL

 

Hi Cathy,

I was also concerned about MB12 shots and 5-MTHF as my son was extremely hyperactive this summer. He could not even fall asleep easily as he had uncontrollable movements which almost seemed like tics. I stopped the shot and 5-MTHF for about 10 days and noticed that his hyperactivity improved but he also lost his focus and he seemed to have lack of energy. I felt that overall he regressed after discontinuation of shots. So I restarted the shot and mthf and hyperactivity came back but this time I also started him on curcumin capsule and for the first time in atleast 6 months, I feel like my son is more aware of surroundings and is able to express his needs better. So I would also suggest using some anti-inflammatory or anti-allergy when you restart the shot and 5-MTHF. I so far love curcumin as it is an antioxidant and antiinflammatory agent and also decreases microbial overgrowth.

is

>s

> My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

>

> So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

>

> Thanks,

> Cathy

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

- Alek is only doing Feingold in the colors/preservatives kinda way, and trying to introduce more stuff to Gabi as well. Someone told me molybdenum helps the sulfation of phenols??? (correct terminology?) and it may be ringing true here b/c Alek is on Moly and Gabi is not... he is able to eat off Feingold without too much trouble (yellow lollipop did cause him to be quite obnoxious/active) and Gabi still has issues with hyperactivity... she may require more stuff than Alek, but he has gotten more of my attention b/c of his bad behaviors.

The b vitamin combo I am using has done a lot for his speech but I am still using carnosine-molybdenum-zinc too.I need to figure a way to work vit e in there, apparently it is used in combo with carnosine to help the speech stuff too.

 

Hi is and Cathy -

I found for my son that high doses of B12 without Magnesium caused hyperactivity, found when pulled it, same thing as is, he lost energy and focus. Added Magnesium (Natural Calm) and wha la! Magic!

I had read that Magnesium activates B Vitamins. Since then I have gotten a B-Complex on board and I also supplement magnesium. As of now, we supplement once every three days. My son is now recovered, but still needs some supplements. Magnesium helps 'calm' the body, also leads to more focus. (We also do Feingold, and somewhat lo-oxalate (more like med oxalate)) He is doing AWESOME!

My Brother, Rob (27) I did the same for, and I found for him (very high doses of B Complex and Magnesium) also helped his executive function. He can receive multiple directions, and not have to get me to repeat them over and over (and over..) There is more of a 'connect' than ever. While B12 (we did shots and nasal, and now I am doing capsules) was a amazing step for us, I felt like something was 'missing' -- this is what it was for us. (Rob is also Feingold and low oxalate, also works GREAT for him.)

We too do daily 'anti-inflammatory' in the form of juicing (celery, ginger, Holy Basil, pineapple) and for Rob, green tea. (My husband had picked up at a garage sale for .25 cents " Beyond Aspirin " Newmark and Schulick, and it's all about great anti inflammatory foods and herbs, but cautions about using things that isn't a 'whole' food or herbs, because nature creates these foods perfectly having all the compounds to solve an issue. Juicing solved this problem.

I hope this helps...

laura:)

ps. yes Toni, we need to chat!

> >s

> > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> >

> > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Cathy

> >

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Which B complex and magnesium are you using and how much is the magnesium dose?

And when you juice, do you use a specific ratio of the vegetables and pineapple?

Thanks for your help.

is

> > >s

> > > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed

to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After

that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems

like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just

a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic,

too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try

the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the

shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute

worst morning he has had in a long time.

> > >

> > > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or

mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did

any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a

bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is

supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Cathy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

we are week 2 into carnosine. woot!woo! good, good stuff. expressive,complex language, conversation skills much improved. focus. attention. tranquility. from day 1. We haven't had too many instantaneous wows, but this is one for sure.To: mb12valtrex Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 10:27 AMSubject: Re: Re: Bad reaction to Folinic Acid or B12?

- Alek is only doing Feingold in the colors/preservatives kinda way, and trying to introduce more stuff to Gabi as well. Someone told me molybdenum helps the sulfation of phenols??? (correct terminology?) and it may be ringing true here b/c Alek is on Moly and Gabi is not... he is able to eat off Feingold without too much trouble (yellow lollipop did cause him to be quite obnoxious/active) and Gabi still has issues with hyperactivity... she may require more stuff than Alek, but he has gotten more of my attention b/c of his bad behaviors.

The b vitamin combo I am using has done a lot for his speech but I am still using carnosine-molybdenum-zinc too.I need to figure a way to work vit e in there, apparently it is used in combo with carnosine to help the speech stuff too.

Hi is and Cathy -

I found for my son that high doses of B12 without Magnesium caused hyperactivity, found when pulled it, same thing as is, he lost energy and focus. Added Magnesium (Natural Calm) and wha la! Magic!

I had read that Magnesium activates B Vitamins. Since then I have gotten a B-Complex on board and I also supplement magnesium. As of now, we supplement once every three days. My son is now recovered, but still needs some supplements. Magnesium helps 'calm' the body, also leads to more focus. (We also do Feingold, and somewhat lo-oxalate (more like med oxalate)) He is doing AWESOME!

My Brother, Rob (27) I did the same for, and I found for him (very high doses of B Complex and Magnesium) also helped his executive function. He can receive multiple directions, and not have to get me to repeat them over and over (and over..) There is more of a 'connect' than ever. While B12 (we did shots and nasal, and now I am doing capsules) was a amazing step for us, I felt like something was 'missing' -- this is what it was for us. (Rob is also Feingold and low oxalate, also works GREAT for him.)

We too do daily 'anti-inflammatory' in the form of juicing (celery, ginger, Holy Basil, pineapple) and for Rob, green tea. (My husband had picked up at a garage sale for .25 cents "Beyond Aspirin" Newmark and Schulick, and it's all about great anti inflammatory foods and herbs, but cautions about using things that isn't a 'whole' food or herbs, because nature creates these foods perfectly having all the compounds to solve an issue. Juicing solved this problem.

I hope this helps...

laura:)

ps. yes Toni, we need to chat!

> >s

> > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> >

> > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Cathy

> >

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

Hi Toni,

From your posting it seems like you are using all the vitamins separately and

your son is not on multivitamins. I was wondering how you supplement other

vitamins like vitamin A, E, etc. I am currently using vitaspectrum but I read an

article by Dr Woody Mcginnis and the doses he recommends for B vitamins are not

there in vitaspectrum. After reading your post I also am getting inclined

towards using individual supplements. Also you mentioned supplementing both B6

and P5P. Could you please elaborate on that. Can't we just use a bigger dose of

P5P instead of adding vit B6??

Thanks

is

> > >s

> >

> > > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed

> > to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid.

> > After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.)

> > It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if

> > that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and

> > stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.

> > I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic

> > thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now

> > he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> > >

> > > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid

> > or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have?

> > Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then

> > became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR,

> > so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Cathy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

[Guest guest]

I've used many B vitamin brands in the past. I am not loyal to really any.

LOL! However, that being said, right now, we are using 'B-Right by Jarrow

Formulas' - I am taking it myself. I like it a lot. For Magnesium, we use

" Natural Calm " -- I throw it in a drink, it's not bad tasting.

I use whatever is in the frig at this point. My kids will eat anything. This

was not always the case though. For pineapple and the picky kid, use a 1/2 of a

pineapple, throw two quarter size of ginger in there too. They tend to like it

sweet...or try using a 1/4 of a pineapple (use a whole one as the middle is full

of great digestive enzymes) with a granny smith or golden delicious apples or

pears. Pears are also anti inflammatory.

We had terrible yeast issues, but they are completely resolved. So sugar

content wasn't an issue, or at least, I found that I saw the yeast as a side

issue, not the issue itself. (I am hoping that makes sense.)

My son likes vegetable juice with just one granny smith apple or pear. He likes

pineapple, but likes it a little. I juice all green stuff mostly now. He

drinks 12-16 oz per day. When we started, his juice was super sweet (and it was

delicious!) but as we got healthier, he chose healthier things. Once I got the

yeast out, he finds things 'too sweet.' (Syntol, 12 caps a day for about 45

days, is how I got the yeast out.) So, getting the nutrition in them, in my

opinion, is the most important thing...everything else is, well, side issues.

I feed my kids extremely healthy...and very low sugar now. That was not always

possible to do. I'm just glad that we made it a priority, and now we have

resolution. (It took us about 2 years)

laura

> > > >s

> > > > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He

seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid.

After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It

seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is

just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the

folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I

would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would

have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the

absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> > > >

> > > > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid

or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did

any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a

bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is

supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Cathy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Toni -

I never supplemented molybdenum...I wonder if that is the missing link. I will

look into it.

and yes, getting the sulfation to work (for PST deficiency) helps - which is why

Feingold is so effective, Feingold reduces the load, and the addition of certain

vitamins (namely zinc)helps increase those enzymes that provide the detox

pathway. Because phenols are everywhere. The added sulfer ion (I think I am

correct here) helps increase the enzymes, and therefore, able to break down the

phenols. When you use the zinc monomethionine, the monomethionine is an amino

that has extra sulfer ions, and if you do the epsom salts, that too helps. Our

kids seems to always be in arrears, which is why supplementing is imperative to

getting to the end result. (If you have read the cookbook, Special Diets for

Special Kids by , she does a great job of explaining it. - I am

regurgitating it, and not sure if I am doing it accurately. lol!)

Sorry to hear about Alek... I am hoping this finds you both better...

laura

> > > >s

> > > > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He

> > seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic

> > acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently

> > (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I

> > don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on

> > Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and

> > Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the

> > folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last

> > night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> > > >

> > > > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid

> > or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have?

> > Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then

> > became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR,

> > so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Cathy

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

[Guest guest]

I think, , now that we have the right balance of vits, we may be able to work thru the behaviors, as in, developmentally. When he is off the vitamins, he starts slipping. His anxiety is SO BAD outside the house. We have a lot of social story work and social explaining to do, and once we do, I think this kid will be OK. Just have to keep him out of trouble long enough to do that. LOL.

is... I will answer your questions more fully later... killer headache and I need to start dinner and try to lay down while it cooks so I can handle the 6-8p time period with these kiddos LOL

 

Hey Toni -

I never supplemented molybdenum...I wonder if that is the missing link. I will look into it.

and yes, getting the sulfation to work (for PST deficiency) helps - which is why Feingold is so effective, Feingold reduces the load, and the addition of certain vitamins (namely zinc)helps increase those enzymes that provide the detox pathway. Because phenols are everywhere. The added sulfer ion (I think I am correct here) helps increase the enzymes, and therefore, able to break down the phenols. When you use the zinc monomethionine, the monomethionine is an amino that has extra sulfer ions, and if you do the epsom salts, that too helps. Our kids seems to always be in arrears, which is why supplementing is imperative to getting to the end result. (If you have read the cookbook, Special Diets for Special Kids by , she does a great job of explaining it. - I am regurgitating it, and not sure if I am doing it accurately. lol!)

Sorry to hear about Alek... I am hoping this finds you both better...

laura

> > > >s

> > > > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He

> > seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic

> > acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently

> > (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I

> > don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on

> > Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and

> > Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the

> > folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last

> > night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> > > >

> > > > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid

> > or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have?

> > Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then

> > became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR,

> > so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Cathy

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Guest guest]

and Toni,How much mag citrate do you guys use?

 

Hi is and Cathy -

I found for my son that high doses of B12 without Magnesium caused hyperactivity, found when pulled it, same thing as is, he lost energy and focus. Added Magnesium (Natural Calm) and wha la! Magic!

I had read that Magnesium activates B Vitamins. Since then I have gotten a B-Complex on board and I also supplement magnesium. As of now, we supplement once every three days. My son is now recovered, but still needs some supplements. Magnesium helps 'calm' the body, also leads to more focus. (We also do Feingold, and somewhat lo-oxalate (more like med oxalate)) He is doing AWESOME!

My Brother, Rob (27) I did the same for, and I found for him (very high doses of B Complex and Magnesium) also helped his executive function. He can receive multiple directions, and not have to get me to repeat them over and over (and over..) There is more of a 'connect' than ever. While B12 (we did shots and nasal, and now I am doing capsules) was a amazing step for us, I felt like something was 'missing' -- this is what it was for us. (Rob is also Feingold and low oxalate, also works GREAT for him.)

We too do daily 'anti-inflammatory' in the form of juicing (celery, ginger, Holy Basil, pineapple) and for Rob, green tea. (My husband had picked up at a garage sale for .25 cents " Beyond Aspirin " Newmark and Schulick, and it's all about great anti inflammatory foods and herbs, but cautions about using things that isn't a 'whole' food or herbs, because nature creates these foods perfectly having all the compounds to solve an issue. Juicing solved this problem.

I hope this helps...

laura:)

ps. yes Toni, we need to chat!

> >s

> > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> >

> > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Cathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oops, never mind...I missed Toni saying she uses 200 mg.

and Toni,How much mag citrate do you guys use?

 

Hi is and Cathy -

I found for my son that high doses of B12 without Magnesium caused hyperactivity, found when pulled it, same thing as is, he lost energy and focus. Added Magnesium (Natural Calm) and wha la! Magic!

I had read that Magnesium activates B Vitamins. Since then I have gotten a B-Complex on board and I also supplement magnesium. As of now, we supplement once every three days. My son is now recovered, but still needs some supplements. Magnesium helps 'calm' the body, also leads to more focus. (We also do Feingold, and somewhat lo-oxalate (more like med oxalate)) He is doing AWESOME!

My Brother, Rob (27) I did the same for, and I found for him (very high doses of B Complex and Magnesium) also helped his executive function. He can receive multiple directions, and not have to get me to repeat them over and over (and over..) There is more of a 'connect' than ever. While B12 (we did shots and nasal, and now I am doing capsules) was a amazing step for us, I felt like something was 'missing' -- this is what it was for us. (Rob is also Feingold and low oxalate, also works GREAT for him.)

We too do daily 'anti-inflammatory' in the form of juicing (celery, ginger, Holy Basil, pineapple) and for Rob, green tea. (My husband had picked up at a garage sale for .25 cents " Beyond Aspirin " Newmark and Schulick, and it's all about great anti inflammatory foods and herbs, but cautions about using things that isn't a 'whole' food or herbs, because nature creates these foods perfectly having all the compounds to solve an issue. Juicing solved this problem.

I hope this helps...

laura:)

ps. yes Toni, we need to chat!

> >s

> > My son has been on mb12 shots and folinic acid for a long time. He seemed to have trouble with the mb12 at first until we added the folinic acid. After that, I didn't notice a problem with them until recently (possibly.) It seems like he has worse days after having the shots, but I don't know if that is just a coincidence. So I didn't give him his shot on Sunday and stopped the folinic, too. He had a fine day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I thought I would try the shot again yesterday and gave him the folinic thinking he would have the shot at night. I forgot the shot last night. Now he just had the absolute worst morning he has had in a long time.

> >

> > So, for those of you who have had a bad reaction to either folinic acid or mb12, what did it look like? What type of symptoms did your child have? Did any of you find that the shots/folinic were good for awhile and then became a bad thing? My son has a double mutation (one of each type)of MTHFR, so he is supposed to need the mb12 support for the rest of his life.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Cathy

> >

>