Online Refresher Classes

January 29, 2007

The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran across the

following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as there have

been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for renewal.

It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

<http://www.nremt.org/about/article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

on.asp> org/about/article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration Policy

By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

Posted 10/18/2006

With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have called the

Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher programs to

satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of some

on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet NREMT

re-registration guidelines.

As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education (online,

video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10 hours of the

refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you plan on

using distributive education for part of your refresher (or additional

continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT policy AND be

either State or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS approved.

The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part of your

re-registration packet.

Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS to

inquire if the distributive education program you are using is approved.

Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education towards

your refresher requirement.

,_._,___

January 29, 2007

Thanks...excellent article and clarification.

Quinten

Firefighter/NREMT-P

Online Refresher Classes

The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran across the

following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as there have

been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for renewal.

It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

<http://www.nremt.org/about/article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

on.asp> org/about/article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration Policy

By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

Posted 10/18/2006

With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have called the

Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher programs to

satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of some

on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet NREMT

re-registration guidelines.

As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education (online,

video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10 hours of the

refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you plan on

using distributive education for part of your refresher (or additional

continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT policy AND be

either State or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS approved.

The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part of your

re-registration packet.

Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS to

inquire if the distributive education program you are using is approved.

Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education towards

your refresher requirement.

,_._,___

January 30, 2007

Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

the state?

Mike :/

> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> across the

> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> there have

> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for renewal.

>

> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> <http://www.nremt.org/about/

> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

> on.asp> org/about/

> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> ------

> ------------------------------------

>

> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> Policy

> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> Posted 10/18/2006

>

> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> called the

> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> programs to

> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> some

> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> NREMT

> re-registration guidelines.

>

> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> (online,

> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> hours of the

> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> plan on

> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or additional

> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> policy AND be

> either State or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS approved.

>

> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> of your

> re-registration packet.

>

> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.org>

> CECBEMS to

> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> approved.

> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> towards

> your refresher requirement.

>

> ,_._,___

>

January 30, 2007

Does anyone else find it ironic they do not allow all the hours by computer

but accept the test scores from one?

Eddie , EMT-P

Director of Clinical Services

4100 Ed Bluestein Blvd., Suite 100

Austin, TX 78721

ext. 110

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Mike

Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:35 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Online Refresher Classes

Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

the state?

Mike :/

> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> across the

> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> there have

> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for renewal.

>

> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> <http://www.nremt. <http://www.nremt.org/about/> org/about/

> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

> on.asp> org/about/

> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> ------

> ------------------------------------

>

> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> Policy

> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> Posted 10/18/2006

>

> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> called the

> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> programs to

> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> some

> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> NREMT

> re-registration guidelines.

>

> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> (online,

> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> hours of the

> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> plan on

> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or additional

> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> policy AND be

> either State or <http://www.cecbems. <http://www.cecbems.org> org> CECBEMS

approved.

>

> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> of your

> re-registration packet.

>

> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.

<http://www.cecbems.org> org>

> CECBEMS to

> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> approved.

> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> towards

> your refresher requirement.

>

> ,_._,___

>

January 30, 2007

Maybe they don't like computers. If you send them an e-mail, they won't

answer it. Every other re-certifiying body I know of will take

unlimited on-line CE hours. On-line course abound in universities. We

have EMS certification courses on-line. Why can't we see the NR policy

statement/rationale for this and have a reasonable discussion with them?

NR - if anybody's home, let us know why...... my guess is nobody's

home. The NR likes to keep all the lights off and the shades pulled

down.

-MH

>>> Mike 1/30/2007 12:34 pm >>>

Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

the state?

Mike :/

> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> across the

> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> there have

> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

renewal.

>

> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> <http://www.nremt.org/about/

> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

> on.asp> org/about/

> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

> ------

> ------------------------------------

>

> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> Policy

> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> Posted 10/18/2006

>

> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> called the

> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> programs to

> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> some

> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> NREMT

> re-registration guidelines.

>

> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> (online,

> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> hours of the

> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> plan on

> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

additional

> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> policy AND be

> either State or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS approved.

>

> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> of your

> re-registration packet.

>

> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.org>

> CECBEMS to

> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> approved.

> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> towards

> your refresher requirement.

>

> ,_._,___

>

January 30, 2007

The National Registry has for too long refused to recognize distance learning

as being an acceptable way to gain continuing education credits. There is

absolutely NO research data to support its position. Yet it obstinately

refuses to allow what is being done almost universally in other professional

fields.

For example, I can get all my law CE credits online. I can even get 1/3 of

them by doing self study.

Some myths that the NR seems to promulgate need to be busted:

1. That the student sitting in a face-to-face CE class will learn more than

one doing an online course.

Those of you who teach certainly know that lots of medics will be sleeping,

reading a magazine, playing with their palm pilots, sending text messages on

their cellphones, or just disconnected during CE presentations. Distance

education, on the other hand, DEMANDS involvement.

2. That person-to-person CE will somehow be more relevant than distance CE.

While the NR hasn't said that specifically, it is implicit in their

position.

3. That allowing distance learning would somehow result in less qualified

medics.

All these positions are pure crap. For the most part, the way CE is done

stinks, and there is little evidence that mandatory CE has much positive impact

on patient care. I'll go further. Show me ANY study that shows that CE has

any impact on patient care whatsoever. The notion that mandatory CE does

good needs to be examined closely. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but

we know that it's generally worthless.

The people who would do a distance learning program are the ones that are

self-motivated and the ones that will possibly improve from CE. To say that

those who are professional enough to become self learners and who would use

distance learning are not fit to recertify through that sort of CE is a denial

of

reality. We should be encouraging self-study, not refusing to recognize it.

The study that Dr. Bledsoe posted a little while ago is interesting. It

seems to show that few report using distance learning for CE to the NR. There

may be good reasons for this. Some may be reluctant to report it, for fear of

being denied recertification; others may be discouraged from using it because

of the NR's prohibitions against more than a small portion of the required

credits being from distance learning.

Now is the time for people to stand up to the NR and DEMAND that it join the

21st Century in recognition of learning styles and education delivery methods.

Those who are NR certified are CUSTOMERS of NR. Some of the managers at NR

are aware of this and doing what they can to change the Neanderthal culture of

the NR in this respect, but they need to hear from the masses.

Of course it's hard to reach them when it takes the equivalent of an FBI

investigation to figure out how to reach them by email. It is obvious that

they

don't want to hear from hoi polloi such as their customers.

But they do have a phone number and a fax number listed in their website.

Why not call and say hello? I'm sure that Bill Brown would love to hear from

you.

Further, Maxie, and Steve and Kathy: Please take notice. You have a

tremendous club that you can wield to get NR to change its policies. After

all,

we now know that there are other viable alternatives to NR for examinations.

Illinois has just fired the NR and gone with another provider. Texas is a

huge source of revenue for the NR, and if we don't exploit our position to the

maximum, we're missing a great opportunity to push the NR to reform.

The NR says that it's trying to become a better, more customer friendly

organization. I accept the assurances of those who tell me that. I have no

reason to doubt their good intentions. But they're taking too long on the

issue

of CE. They must change, and they must change NOW.

Gene Gandy,JD, LP

Not NREMT certified because I don't want to mess with their recert

requirements and their bureaucracy.

>

> My guess (while not trying to sound as an apologist) is the NR views

> the two as separate animals, so to speak. They have " control " over

> the CBT registration exam since it's taken under strict, timed

> conditions. However, the opposite is true for computer-based CE.

> Granted, my computer-based CE experience is limited, however I'm

> speaking from my experiences to date.

>

> -Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

> > >

> > >> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> > >> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> > >> across the

> > >> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> > >> there have

> > >> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> > > renewal.

> > >>

> > >> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> > >> <http://www.nremt.http://www

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 articl

> > >> on.asp> org/about/

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 article_0 ar

> > >>

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> > >> ------

> > >> ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >>

> > >> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> > >> Policy

> > >> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> > >> Posted 10/18/2006

> > >>

> > >> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> > >> called the

> > >> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> > >> programs to

> > >> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> > >

> > >> some

> > >> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> > >> NREMT

> > >> re-registration guidelines.

> > >>

> > >> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> > >> (online,

> > >> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> > >> hours of the

> > >> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> > >> plan on

> > >> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> > > additional

> > >> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> > >> policy AND be

> > >> either State or <http://www.cecbems.htt> CECBEMS approved.

> > >>

> > >> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> > >> of your

> > >> re-registration packet.

> > >>

> > >> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.htt>

> > >> CECBEMS to

> > >> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> > >> approved.

> > >> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> > >

> > >> towards

> > >> your refresher requirement.

> > >>

> > >> ,_._,___

> > >>

January 30, 2007

So we need to demand an answer from DSHS, who represents us to NR. I

know that DSHS and GETAC monitor this list - I'd like to see this

added as an agenda item at the next GETAC meeting - a proposal that

GETAC formally request that NR accept computer-based education for

*all* CE requirements for Texas-based certificants.

Is there a formal process I need to go through to present that to

GETAC as a request?

Mike

> Maybe they don't like computers. If you send them an e-mail, they

> won't

> answer it. Every other re-certifiying body I know of will take

> unlimited on-line CE hours. On-line course abound in

> universities. We

> have EMS certification courses on-line. Why can't we see the NR

> policy

> statement/rationale for this and have a reasonable discussion with

> them?

>

> NR - if anybody's home, let us know why...... my guess is nobody's

> home. The NR likes to keep all the lights off and the shades pulled

> down.

>

> -MH

>

>>>> Mike 1/30/2007 12:34 pm >>>

> Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

> distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

>

> Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

> the state?

>

> Mike :/

>

>> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

>> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

>> across the

>> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

>> there have

>> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> renewal.

>>

>> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

>> <http://www.nremt.org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

>> on.asp> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> ------

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

>> Policy

>> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

>> Posted 10/18/2006

>>

>> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

>> called the

>> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

>> programs to

>> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

>

>> some

>> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

>> NREMT

>> re-registration guidelines.

>>

>> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

>> (online,

>> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

>> hours of the

>> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

>> plan on

>> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> additional

>> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

>> policy AND be

>> either State or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS approved.

>>

>> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

>> of your

>> re-registration packet.

>>

>> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.org>

>> CECBEMS to

>> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

>> approved.

>> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

>

>> towards

>> your refresher requirement.

>>

>> ,_._,___

>>

January 30, 2007

My guess (while not trying to sound as an apologist) is the NR views

the two as separate animals, so to speak. They have " control " over

the CBT registration exam since it's taken under strict, timed

conditions. However, the opposite is true for computer-based CE.

Granted, my computer-based CE experience is limited, however I'm

speaking from my experiences to date.

-Alfonso R. Ochoa

> >

> >> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> >> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> >> across the

> >> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> >> there have

> >> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> > renewal.

> >>

> >> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> >> <http://www.nremt.org/about/

> >> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

> >> on.asp> org/about/

> >> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

> >>

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> ------

> >> ------------------------------------

> >>

> >> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> >> Policy

> >> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> >> Posted 10/18/2006

> >>

> >> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> >> called the

> >> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> >> programs to

> >> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> >

> >> some

> >> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> >> NREMT

> >> re-registration guidelines.

> >>

> >> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> >> (online,

> >> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> >> hours of the

> >> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> >> plan on

> >> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> > additional

> >> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> >> policy AND be

> >> either State or <http://www.cecbems.org> CECBEMS approved.

> >>

> >> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> >> of your

> >> re-registration packet.

> >>

> >> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.org>

> >> CECBEMS to

> >> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> >> approved.

> >> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> >

> >> towards

> >> your refresher requirement.

> >>

> >> ,_._,___

> >>

January 30, 2007

From this month's PEC:

47. Utilization of Distributive Education to Fulfill National Registry

Reregistration Requirements Jon R. Studnek, R. Fernandez, National

Registry of EMTs, Columbus, Ohio

Introduction: To maintain national registration, EMS providers are required

to obtain a total of 72 hours of continuing medical education in a 2-year

period. This training is broken up into two sections. Section one; refresher

training, requires 24 hours for EMT-Basics and 48 hours for Paramedics.

Section two, EMS-related continuing education (CE), requires 48 hours for

EMT-Basics and 24 hours for Paramedics. The NREMT will accept up to 50% of

section two CE as distributive education (DE). This project was conducted to

determine what proportion of nationally registered EMTs and Paramedics

report using DE to fulfill their section two re-registration requirements.

Methods: The NREMT accepts between 45,000 and 55,000 applications for

reregistration annually. A sample of approximately 1%-2% of all nonmilitary

EMT-Basics and Paramedics reregistering in 2004 and 2006 were reviewed. Any

application received between the months of December and May 2004 and 2006

was eligible for review. Processed forms were pulled at random to facilitate

data collection. Data gathered included registration level, state of

residence, use of DE, hours of DE reported, and total hours of CE reported.

The following key words were used to determine utilization of DE: online,

computer, Internet, web, distributive, video, CBT or DE. Results: Data were

collected from 348 applications from 2004 and 649 from 2006. DE was used by

19.3% (67/348) of applicants in 2004 and 20.5% (133/649) in 2006. In both

years EMT-Basics were significantly more likely than Paramedics to report

using DE (26.4% vs. 12.1%, p le0.001 and 23.4% vs. 16.8%, p le0.038,

respectively). Although DE can account for 50% of yearly section two CE,

among those who used DE in 2004 and 2006, on average only 20.4% and 27.4% of

CE were accounted for through DE. Conclusions: In this review of NREMT

re-registration applications from 2004 and 2006, approximately 20% of

EMT-Basics and Paramedics reported using any DE to fulfill their section two

requirements. Of specific interest, of DE has not changed over use that

2-year time period. Of those who did use DE, on average, it was not used to

its maximum allowable amounts

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Mike

Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:59 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Online Refresher Classes

So we need to demand an answer from DSHS, who represents us to NR. I

know that DSHS and GETAC monitor this list - I'd like to see this

added as an agenda item at the next GETAC meeting - a proposal that

GETAC formally request that NR accept computer-based education for

*all* CE requirements for Texas-based certificants.

Is there a formal process I need to go through to present that to

GETAC as a request?

Mike

> Maybe they don't like computers. If you send them an e-mail, they

> won't

> answer it. Every other re-certifiying body I know of will take

> unlimited on-line CE hours. On-line course abound in

> universities. We

> have EMS certification courses on-line. Why can't we see the NR

> policy

> statement/rationale for this and have a reasonable discussion with

> them?

>

> NR - if anybody's home, let us know why...... my guess is nobody's

> home. The NR likes to keep all the lights off and the shades pulled

> down.

>

> -MH

>

>>>> Mike <paramedicop@ <mailto:paramedicop%40gmail.com> gmail.com>

1/30/2007 12:34 pm >>>

> Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

> distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

>

> Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

> the state?

>

> Mike :/

>

>> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

>> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

>> across the

>> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

>> there have

>> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> renewal.

>>

>> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

>> <http://www.nremt. <http://www.nremt.org/about/> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

>> on.asp> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>> ------

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

>> Policy

>> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

>> Posted 10/18/2006

>>

>> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

>> called the

>> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

>> programs to

>> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

>

>> some

>> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

>> NREMT

>> re-registration guidelines.

>>

>> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

>> (online,

>> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

>> hours of the

>> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

>> plan on

>> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> additional

>> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

>> policy AND be

>> either State or <http://www.cecbems. <http://www.cecbems.org> org>

CECBEMS approved.

>>

>> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

>> of your

>> re-registration packet.

>>

>> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.

<http://www.cecbems.org> org>

>> CECBEMS to

>> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

>> approved.

>> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

>

>> towards

>> your refresher requirement.

>>

>> ,_._,___

>>

January 31, 2007

I hate to say it but I prefer to do face-to-face CE time. My department

provides us CE solution access which I use from time to time just to occupy time

on shift, but I don't get as much out of it as I do class-time. You don't have

that interaction nor do you get the opportunity to learn from other medics when

you are simply scanning an article for test answers.

As far as medics sleeping or otherwise distracted when you are teaching: that

is more of a problem with your organization. I would hope that is not common

among those that call themselves professionals.

Well there is my 2 cents...have to finish dressing now to get to shift change...

Quinten

Firefighter/NREMT-P

Re: Re: Online Refresher Classes

The National Registry has for too long refused to recognize distance learning

as being an acceptable way to gain continuing education credits. There is

absolutely NO research data to support its position. Yet it obstinately

refuses to allow what is being done almost universally in other professional

fields.

For example, I can get all my law CE credits online. I can even get 1/3 of

them by doing self study.

Some myths that the NR seems to promulgate need to be busted:

1. That the student sitting in a face-to-face CE class will learn more than

one doing an online course.

Those of you who teach certainly know that lots of medics will be sleeping,

reading a magazine, playing with their palm pilots, sending text messages on

their cellphones, or just disconnected during CE presentations. Distance

education, on the other hand, DEMANDS involvement.

2. That person-to-person CE will somehow be more relevant than distance CE.

While the NR hasn't said that specifically, it is implicit in their

position.

3. That allowing distance learning would somehow result in less qualified

medics.

All these positions are pure crap. For the most part, the way CE is done

stinks, and there is little evidence that mandatory CE has much positive impact

on patient care. I'll go further. Show me ANY study that shows that CE has

any impact on patient care whatsoever. The notion that mandatory CE does

good needs to be examined closely. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but

we know that it's generally worthless.

The people who would do a distance learning program are the ones that are

self-motivated and the ones that will possibly improve from CE. To say that

those who are professional enough to become self learners and who would use

distance learning are not fit to recertify through that sort of CE is a denial

of

reality. We should be encouraging self-study, not refusing to recognize it.

The study that Dr. Bledsoe posted a little while ago is interesting. It

seems to show that few report using distance learning for CE to the NR. There

may be good reasons for this. Some may be reluctant to report it, for fear of

being denied recertification; others may be discouraged from using it because

of the NR's prohibitions against more than a small portion of the required

credits being from distance learning.

Now is the time for people to stand up to the NR and DEMAND that it join the

21st Century in recognition of learning styles and education delivery methods.

Those who are NR certified are CUSTOMERS of NR. Some of the managers at NR

are aware of this and doing what they can to change the Neanderthal culture of

the NR in this respect, but they need to hear from the masses.

Of course it's hard to reach them when it takes the equivalent of an FBI

investigation to figure out how to reach them by email. It is obvious that

they

don't want to hear from hoi polloi such as their customers.

But they do have a phone number and a fax number listed in their website.

Why not call and say hello? I'm sure that Bill Brown would love to hear from

you.

Further, Maxie, and Steve and Kathy: Please take notice. You have a

tremendous club that you can wield to get NR to change its policies. After

all,

we now know that there are other viable alternatives to NR for examinations.

Illinois has just fired the NR and gone with another provider. Texas is a

huge source of revenue for the NR, and if we don't exploit our position to the

maximum, we're missing a great opportunity to push the NR to reform.

The NR says that it's trying to become a better, more customer friendly

organization. I accept the assurances of those who tell me that. I have no

reason to doubt their good intentions. But they're taking too long on the

issue

of CE. They must change, and they must change NOW.

Gene Gandy,JD, LP

Not NREMT certified because I don't want to mess with their recert

requirements and their bureaucracy.

>

> My guess (while not trying to sound as an apologist) is the NR views

> the two as separate animals, so to speak. They have " control " over

> the CBT registration exam since it's taken under strict, timed

> conditions. However, the opposite is true for computer-based CE.

> Granted, my computer-based CE experience is limited, however I'm

> speaking from my experiences to date.

>

> -Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

> > >

> > >> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> > >> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> > >> across the

> > >> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> > >> there have

> > >> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> > > renewal.

> > >>

> > >> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> > >> <http://www.nremt.http://www

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 articl

> > >> on.asp> org/about/

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 article_0 ar

> > >>

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> > >> ------

> > >> ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >>

> > >> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> > >> Policy

> > >> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> > >> Posted 10/18/2006

> > >>

> > >> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> > >> called the

> > >> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> > >> programs to

> > >> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> > >

> > >> some

> > >> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> > >> NREMT

> > >> re-registration guidelines.

> > >>

> > >> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> > >> (online,

> > >> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> > >> hours of the

> > >> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> > >> plan on

> > >> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> > > additional

> > >> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> > >> policy AND be

> > >> either State or <http://www.cecbems.htt> CECBEMS approved.

> > >>

> > >> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> > >> of your

> > >> re-registration packet.

> > >>

> > >> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.htt>

> > >> CECBEMS to

> > >> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> > >> approved.

> > >> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> > >

> > >> towards

> > >> your refresher requirement.

> > >>

> > >> ,_._,___

> > >>

January 31, 2007

The NR SHOULD allow more DE and we should demand it. Renewal

requirements (esp. for the medic) are too loaded with " live "

requirements. But there's a lack of common sense going on here if one

believes that there's much quality in many of distributive education

programs out here. And this applies to some of the refresher courses

that are being " taught " by take home CDs and websites also.

Who can argue against Quinten's points? - Most people have a better

learning experience with others around them. There's so many positives

in good live education that can never be replaced by reading

individually. But both methods are important however. there has to be

individual learning. A combination of the two is the way to do it. I

just want to see NR allow more DE. If anyone believes DE/distance

learning should be the ONLY method used for renewal requirements - then

they're either fooling themselves or making money selling it. And some

are selling junk.

Don, Tyler

>>> " Quinten " 01/31/07 6:01 AM >>>

I hate to say it but I prefer to do face-to-face CE time. My

department provides us CE solution access which I use from time to time

just to occupy time on shift, but I don't get as much out of it as I do

class-time. You don't have that interaction nor do you get the

opportunity to learn from other medics when you are simply scanning an

article for test answers.

As far as medics sleeping or otherwise distracted when you are

teaching: that is more of a problem with your organization. I would

hope that is not common among those that call themselves professionals.

Well there is my 2 cents...have to finish dressing now to get to shift

change...

Quinten

Firefighter/NREMT-P

Re: Re: Online Refresher Classes

The National Registry has for too long refused to recognize distance

learning

as being an acceptable way to gain continuing education credits.

There is

absolutely NO research data to support its position. Yet it

obstinately

refuses to allow what is being done almost universally in other

professional

fields.

For example, I can get all my law CE credits online. I can even get

1/3 of

them by doing self study.

Some myths that the NR seems to promulgate need to be busted:

1. That the student sitting in a face-to-face CE class will learn

more than

one doing an online course.

Those of you who teach certainly know that lots of medics will be

sleeping,

reading a magazine, playing with their palm pilots, sending text

messages on

their cellphones, or just disconnected during CE presentations.

Distance

education, on the other hand, DEMANDS involvement.

2. That person-to-person CE will somehow be more relevant than

distance CE.

While the NR hasn't said that specifically, it is implicit in their

position.

3. That allowing distance learning would somehow result in less

qualified

medics.

All these positions are pure crap. For the most part, the way CE is

done

stinks, and there is little evidence that mandatory CE has much

positive impact

on patient care. I'll go further. Show me ANY study that shows that

CE has

any impact on patient care whatsoever. The notion that mandatory CE

does

good needs to be examined closely. It seemed like a good idea at the

time, but

we know that it's generally worthless.

The people who would do a distance learning program are the ones that

are

self-motivated and the ones that will possibly improve from CE. To

say that

those who are professional enough to become self learners and who would

use

distance learning are not fit to recertify through that sort of CE is a

denial of

reality. We should be encouraging self-study, not refusing to

recognize it.

The study that Dr. Bledsoe posted a little while ago is interesting.

It

seems to show that few report using distance learning for CE to the NR.

There

may be good reasons for this. Some may be reluctant to report it, for

fear of

being denied recertification; others may be discouraged from using it

because

of the NR's prohibitions against more than a small portion of the

required

credits being from distance learning.

Now is the time for people to stand up to the NR and DEMAND that it

join the

21st Century in recognition of learning styles and education delivery

methods.

Those who are NR certified are CUSTOMERS of NR. Some of the managers

at NR

are aware of this and doing what they can to change the Neanderthal

culture of

the NR in this respect, but they need to hear from the masses.

Of course it's hard to reach them when it takes the equivalent of an

FBI

investigation to figure out how to reach them by email. It is obvious

that they

don't want to hear from hoi polloi such as their customers.

But they do have a phone number and a fax number listed in their

website.

Why not call and say hello? I'm sure that Bill Brown would love to

hear from

you.

Further, Maxie, and Steve and Kathy: Please take notice. You have a

tremendous club that you can wield to get NR to change its policies.

After all,

we now know that there are other viable alternatives to NR for

examinations.

Illinois has just fired the NR and gone with another provider. Texas

is a

huge source of revenue for the NR, and if we don't exploit our position

to the

maximum, we're missing a great opportunity to push the NR to reform.

The NR says that it's trying to become a better, more customer friendly

organization. I accept the assurances of those who tell me that. I

have no

reason to doubt their good intentions. But they're taking too long on

the issue

of CE. They must change, and they must change NOW.

Gene Gandy,JD, LP

Not NREMT certified because I don't want to mess with their recert

requirements and their bureaucracy.

>

> My guess (while not trying to sound as an apologist) is the NR views

> the two as separate animals, so to speak. They have " control " over

> the CBT registration exam since it's taken under strict, timed

> conditions. However, the opposite is true for computer-based CE.

> Granted, my computer-based CE experience is limited, however I'm

> speaking from my experiences to date.

>

> -Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

> > >

> > >> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions

regarding

> > >> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I

ran

> > >> across the

> > >> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> > >> there have

> > >> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> > > renewal.

> > >>

> > >> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> > >> <http://www.nremt.http://www

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 articl

> > >> on.asp> org/about/

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 article_0 ar

> > >>

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> > >> ------

> > >> ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >>

> > >> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for

Re-registration

> > >> Policy

> > >> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> > >> Posted 10/18/2006

> > >>

> > >> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people

have

> > >> called the

> > >> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> > >> programs to

> > >> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware

of

> > >

> > >> some

> > >> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to

meet

> > >> NREMT

> > >> re-registration guidelines.

> > >>

> > >> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive

education

> > >> (online,

> > >> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> > >> hours of the

> > >> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If

you

> > >> plan on

> > >> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> > > additional

> > >> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> > >> policy AND be

> > >> either State or <http://www.cecbems.htt> CECBEMS approved.

> > >>

> > >> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as

part

> > >> of your

> > >> re-registration packet.

> > >>

> > >> Please contact your State EMS Office or

<http://www.cecbems.htt>

> > >> CECBEMS to

> > >> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> > >> approved.

> > >> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive

education

> > >

> > >> towards

> > >> your refresher requirement.

> > >>

> > >> ,_._,___

> > >>

January 31, 2007

Am I missing something here? This " project " shows absolutely no reason as to

the WHY of National Registry's edicts about Distance Education? It only shows

how many admit to using it. Since folks are afraid to admit to using it since

National says they will only accept a limited amount, this project doesn't

appear to say anything or mean really anything. Nor does it support their edit

about not accepting it accept in limited amounts as other agencies do such as

nursing and other professional organizations.

Just my observation....

Jane Hill

--------- Re: Online Refresher Classes

So we need to demand an answer from DSHS, who represents us to NR. I

know that DSHS and GETAC monitor this list - I'd like to see this

added as an agenda item at the next GETAC meeting - a proposal that

GETAC formally request that NR accept computer-based education for

*all* CE requirements for Texas-based certificants.

Is there a formal process I need to go through to present that to

GETAC as a request?

Mike

> Maybe they don't like computers. If you send them an e-mail, they

> won't

> answer it. Every other re-certifiying body I know of will take

> unlimited on-line CE hours. On-line course abound in

> universities. We

> have EMS certification courses on-line. Why can't we see the NR

> policy

> statement/rationale for this and have a reasonable discussion with

> them?

>

> NR - if anybody's home, let us know why...... my guess is nobody's

> home. The NR likes to keep all the lights off and the shades pulled

> down.

>

> -MH

>

>>>> Mike <paramedicop@ <mailto:paramedicop%40gmail.com> gmail.com>

1/30/2007 12:34 pm >>>

> Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

> distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

>

> Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

> the state?

>

> Mike :/

>

>> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

>> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

>> across the

>> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

>> there have

>> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> renewal.

>>

>> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

>> <http://www.nremt. <http://www.nremt.org/about/> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

>> on.asp> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>> ------

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

>> Policy

>> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

>> Posted 10/18/2006

>>

>> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

>> called the

>> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

>> programs to

>> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

>

>> some

>> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

>> NREMT

>> re-registration guidelines.

>>

>> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

>> (online,

>> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

>> hours of the

>> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

>> plan on

>> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> additional

>> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

>> policy AND be

>> either State or <http://www.cecbems. <http://www.cecbems.org> org>

CECBEMS approved.

>>

>> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

>> of your

>> re-registration packet.

>>

>> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.

<http://www.cecbems.org> org>

>> CECBEMS to

>> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

>> approved.

>> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

>

>> towards

>> your refresher requirement.

>>

>> ,_._,___

>>

January 31, 2007

Again, an example of why we need to be able to critically examine research

without blindly accepting just because it was published somewhere.

-Wes Ogilvie

RE: Online Refresher Classes

Am I missing something here? This " project " shows absolutely no reason as to the

WHY of National Registry's edicts about Distance Education? It only shows how

many admit to using it. Since folks are afraid to admit to using it since

National says they will only accept a limited amount, this project doesn't

appear to say anything or mean really anything. Nor does it support their edit

about not accepting it accept in limited amounts as other agencies do such as

nursing and other professional organizations.

Just my observation....

Jane Hill

--------- Re: Online Refresher Classes

So we need to demand an answer from DSHS, who represents us to NR. I

know that DSHS and GETAC monitor this list - I'd like to see this

added as an agenda item at the next GETAC meeting - a proposal that

GETAC formally request that NR accept computer-based education for

*all* CE requirements for Texas-based certificants.

Is there a formal process I need to go through to present that to

GETAC as a request?

Mike

> Maybe they don't like computers. If you send them an e-mail, they

> won't

> answer it. Every other re-certifiying body I know of will take

> unlimited on-line CE hours. On-line course abound in

> universities. We

> have EMS certification courses on-line. Why can't we see the NR

> policy

> statement/rationale for this and have a reasonable discussion with

> them?

>

> NR - if anybody's home, let us know why...... my guess is nobody's

> home. The NR likes to keep all the lights off and the shades pulled

> down.

>

> -MH

>

>>>> Mike <paramedicop@ <mailto:paramedicop%40gmail.com> gmail.com>

1/30/2007 12:34 pm >>>

> Why doesn't NR come around and allow more than 10 hours through

> distance ed (okay, " distributed ed " by their-sepak)?

>

> Why doesn't Texas require them to accept this to continue to service

> the state?

>

> Mike :/

>

>> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

>> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

>> across the

>> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

>> there have

>> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> renewal.

>>

>> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

>> <http://www.nremt. <http://www.nremt.org/about/> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Educati

>> on.asp> org/about/

>> article_00037_Clarification_Distributive_Education.asp

>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>> ------

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

>> Policy

>> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

>> Posted 10/18/2006

>>

>> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

>> called the

>> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

>> programs to

>> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

>

>> some

>> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

>> NREMT

>> re-registration guidelines.

>>

>> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

>> (online,

>> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

>> hours of the

>> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

>> plan on

>> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> additional

>> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

>> policy AND be

>> either State or <http://www.cecbems. <http://www.cecbems.org> org>

CECBEMS approved.

>>

>> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

>> of your

>> re-registration packet.

>>

>> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.

<http://www.cecbems.org> org>

>> CECBEMS to

>> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

>> approved.

>> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

>

>> towards

>> your refresher requirement.

>>

>> ,_._,___

>>

January 31, 2007

I am going to say one more thing here to expand on something in Gene's post.

Texas is a HUGE volume of business for NR. I don't know for sure if we are

their LARGEST state contract, but I suspect we are pretty close to it. I know

when Texas came on board, NR had to add staff and do some other things to handle

the extreme volume of business Texas provides for them. That means, ladies and

gentlemen, that WE have the capability as a state to drive this boat any where

we want it. They do NOT want to lose Texas's business and, if they are the

professional company they want to be, they will take heed and start making

changes quickly in customer service, distance education issues, etc. The

archaic mindset has got to go and has no business anymore in EMS education

whether initial or continuing education. Texas has been a leader in making

strides in many of these areas and are far ahead of most other states especially

in the realm of distance education. National needs to catch up an

d catch up fast or we CAN drive that boat. We have the power because we have

the VOLUME of business that they now depend on. Kathy? Maxie? GETAC members?

You are the primary voice for us with NR, and many of us think it is time for

you to take the driver's seat in this issue and force some changes here or let's

go play with someone else.

Don't get me wrong; I think that we have made huge strides in a lot of ways in

certification processes. I don't disagree with everything NR does - I think

portions of it are very good. But it can ALL be better.....

Jane Hill

-------------- Original message from wegandy1938@...: --------------

The National Registry has for too long refused to recognize distance learning

as being an acceptable way to gain continuing education credits. There is

absolutely NO research data to support its position. Yet it obstinately

refuses to allow what is being done almost universally in other professional

fields.

For example, I can get all my law CE credits online. I can even get 1/3 of

them by doing self study.

Some myths that the NR seems to promulgate need to be busted:

1. That the student sitting in a face-to-face CE class will learn more than

one doing an online course.

Those of you who teach certainly know that lots of medics will be sleeping,

reading a magazine, playing with their palm pilots, sending text messages on

their cellphones, or just disconnected during CE presentations. Distance

education, on the other hand, DEMANDS involvement.

2. That person-to-person CE will somehow be more relevant than distance CE.

While the NR hasn't said that specifically, it is implicit in their

position.

3. That allowing distance learning would somehow result in less qualified

medics.

All these positions are pure crap. For the most part, the way CE is done

stinks, and there is little evidence that mandatory CE has much positive impact

on patient care. I'll go further. Show me ANY study that shows that CE has

any impact on patient care whatsoever. The notion that mandatory CE does

good needs to be examined closely. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but

we know that it's generally worthless.

The people who would do a distance learning program are the ones that are

self-motivated and the ones that will possibly improve from CE. To say that

those who are professional enough to become self learners and who would use

distance learning are not fit to recertify through that sort of CE is a denial

of

reality. We should be encouraging self-study, not refusing to recognize it.

The study that Dr. Bledsoe posted a little while ago is interesting. It

seems to show that few report using distance learning for CE to the NR. There

may be good reasons for this. Some may be reluctant to report it, for fear of

being denied recertification; others may be discouraged from using it because

of the NR's prohibitions against more than a small portion of the required

credits being from distance learning.

Now is the time for people to stand up to the NR and DEMAND that it join the

21st Century in recognition of learning styles and education delivery methods.

Those who are NR certified are CUSTOMERS of NR. Some of the managers at NR

are aware of this and doing what they can to change the Neanderthal culture of

the NR in this respect, but they need to hear from the masses.

Of course it's hard to reach them when it takes the equivalent of an FBI

investigation to figure out how to reach them by email. It is obvious that they

don't want to hear from hoi polloi such as their customers.

But they do have a phone number and a fax number listed in their website.

Why not call and say hello? I'm sure that Bill Brown would love to hear from

you.

Further, Maxie, and Steve and Kathy: Please take notice. You have a

tremendous club that you can wield to get NR to change its policies. After all,

we now know that there are other viable alternatives to NR for examinations.

Illinois has just fired the NR and gone with another provider. Texas is a

huge source of revenue for the NR, and if we don't exploit our position to the

maximum, we're missing a great opportunity to push the NR to reform.

The NR says that it's trying to become a better, more customer friendly

organization. I accept the assurances of those who tell me that. I have no

reason to doubt their good intentions. But they're taking too long on the issue

of CE. They must change, and they must change NOW.

Gene Gandy,JD, LP

Not NREMT certified because I don't want to mess with their recert

requirements and their bureaucracy.

>

> My guess (while not trying to sound as an apologist) is the NR views

> the two as separate animals, so to speak. They have " control " over

> the CBT registration exam since it's taken under strict, timed

> conditions. However, the opposite is true for computer-based CE.

> Granted, my computer-based CE experience is limited, however I'm

> speaking from my experiences to date.

>

> -Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

> > >

> > >> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions regarding

> > >> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I ran

> > >> across the

> > >> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> > >> there have

> > >> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> > > renewal.

> > >>

> > >> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> > >> <http://www.nremt.http://www

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 articl

> > >> on.asp> org/about/

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 article_0 ar

> > >>

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> > >> ------

> > >> ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >>

> > >> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for Re-registration

> > >> Policy

> > >> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> > >> Posted 10/18/2006

> > >>

> > >> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people have

> > >> called the

> > >> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> > >> programs to

> > >> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware of

> > >

> > >> some

> > >> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to meet

> > >> NREMT

> > >> re-registration guidelines.

> > >>

> > >> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive education

> > >> (online,

> > >> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> > >> hours of the

> > >> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If you

> > >> plan on

> > >> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> > > additional

> > >> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> > >> policy AND be

> > >> either State or <http://www.cecbems.htt> CECBEMS approved.

> > >>

> > >> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as part

> > >> of your

> > >> re-registration packet.

> > >>

> > >> Please contact your State EMS Office or <http://www.cecbems.htt>

> > >> CECBEMS to

> > >> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> > >> approved.

> > >> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive education

> > >

> > >> towards

> > >> your refresher requirement.

> > >>

> > >> ,_._,___

> > >>

January 31, 2007

You are correct in your statement, Don, about " some are selling junk. " I agree

wholeheartedly. I pride myself on my courses. I have an extremely high first

time pass rate on all my online courses - well over 90% for all levels in my

online courses initial and otherwise. I track individual students who take DE

from me as a refresher/remediation for NR, and the last check I had (and most of

these folks had failed NR THREE times already) was right at 100% after they took

my course. Hmmmmm..... That means it CAN work. The problem lies in that we

need the regulatory folks to look closely at distance education programs and

holding them up to the bar. I don't mind setting the bar. I also don't mind

coming up to someone else's bar. But I DO mind having folks think that DE

doesn't work well because we don't hold up all DE programs to a set bar or they

are not allowed to teach it or they are not allowed to maintain the program.

I am MORE than willing to help DSHS in establishing a better method of

evaluating these online programs. I have been doing it since 1998 with huge

success, and I feel that while I have more to learn, I KNOW what quality is and

how to get there.

Many students/candidates/renewals cannot complete live education programs for

various reasons and should not be restricted. Many have lives that do not allow

them to sit in classes. Many live in areas of the state or nation where they

have no access to classes without driving even hundreds of miles. Many are

contractors who work out of the country. The world is very small in many ways

now thanks to electronic information - the internet.

I have proven that it works. Students who WANT to learn can achieve their goals

using good DE programs because it shifts the burden of responsibility of

learning to them. If they don't learn it, they just don't pass. Most of those

who don't have the motivation just disappear from my classes and that is fine

with me too. I don't spoon feed them - they have to work to get it.

Jane Hill

--------- Re: Re: Online Refresher Classes

The National Registry has for too long refused to recognize distance

learning

as being an acceptable way to gain continuing education credits.

There is

absolutely NO research data to support its position. Yet it

obstinately

refuses to allow what is being done almost universally in other

professional

fields.

For example, I can get all my law CE credits online. I can even get

1/3 of

them by doing self study.

Some myths that the NR seems to promulgate need to be busted:

1. That the student sitting in a face-to-face CE class will learn

more than

one doing an online course.

Those of you who teach certainly know that lots of medics will be

sleeping,

reading a magazine, playing with their palm pilots, sending text

messages on

their cellphones, or just disconnected during CE presentations.

Distance

education, on the other hand, DEMANDS involvement.

2. That person-to-person CE will somehow be more relevant than

distance CE.

While the NR hasn't said that specifically, it is implicit in their

position.

3. That allowing distance learning would somehow result in less

qualified

medics.

All these positions are pure crap. For the most part, the way CE is

done

stinks, and there is little evidence that mandatory CE has much

positive impact

on patient care. I'll go further. Show me ANY study that shows that

CE has

any impact on patient care whatsoever. The notion that mandatory CE

does

good needs to be examined closely. It seemed like a good idea at the

time, but

we know that it's generally worthless.

The people who would do a distance learning program are the ones that

are

self-motivated and the ones that will possibly improve from CE. To

say that

those who are professional enough to become self learners and who would

use

distance learning are not fit to recertify through that sort of CE is a

denial of

reality. We should be encouraging self-study, not refusing to

recognize it.

The study that Dr. Bledsoe posted a little while ago is interesting.

It

seems to show that few report using distance learning for CE to the NR.

There

may be good reasons for this. Some may be reluctant to report it, for

fear of

being denied recertification; others may be discouraged from using it

because

of the NR's prohibitions against more than a small portion of the

required

credits being from distance learning.

Now is the time for people to stand up to the NR and DEMAND that it

join the

21st Century in recognition of learning styles and education delivery

methods.

Those who are NR certified are CUSTOMERS of NR. Some of the managers

at NR

are aware of this and doing what they can to change the Neanderthal

culture of

the NR in this respect, but they need to hear from the masses.

Of course it's hard to reach them when it takes the equivalent of an

FBI

investigation to figure out how to reach them by email. It is obvious

that they

don't want to hear from hoi polloi such as their customers.

But they do have a phone number and a fax number listed in their

website.

Why not call and say hello? I'm sure that Bill Brown would love to

hear from

you.

Further, Maxie, and Steve and Kathy: Please take notice. You have a

tremendous club that you can wield to get NR to change its policies.

After all,

we now know that there are other viable alternatives to NR for

examinations.

Illinois has just fired the NR and gone with another provider. Texas

is a

huge source of revenue for the NR, and if we don't exploit our position

to the

maximum, we're missing a great opportunity to push the NR to reform.

The NR says that it's trying to become a better, more customer friendly

organization. I accept the assurances of those who tell me that. I

have no

reason to doubt their good intentions. But they're taking too long on

the issue

of CE. They must change, and they must change NOW.

Gene Gandy,JD, LP

Not NREMT certified because I don't want to mess with their recert

requirements and their bureaucracy.

>

> My guess (while not trying to sound as an apologist) is the NR views

> the two as separate animals, so to speak. They have " control " over

> the CBT registration exam since it's taken under strict, timed

> conditions. However, the opposite is true for computer-based CE.

> Granted, my computer-based CE experience is limited, however I'm

> speaking from my experiences to date.

>

> -Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

> > >

> > >> The beginning of each year is always filled with questions

regarding

> > >> registry renewal. While pursuing their site this afternoon I

ran

> > >> across the

> > >> following announcement. I thought it may be helpful to many as

> > >> there have

> > >> been several questions regarding the use of on line hours for

> > > renewal.

> > >>

> > >> It can also be found at http://www.nremt.

> > >> <http://www.nremt.http://www

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 articl

> > >> on.asp> org/about/

> > >> article_00037_ article_00037 article_0003 article_0 ar

> > >>

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -------- -------- --------

> > >> ------

> > >> ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >>

> > >> Clarification on NREMT Distributive Education for

Re-registration

> > >> Policy

> > >> By K. , MBA, NREMT-P

> > >> Posted 10/18/2006

> > >>

> > >> With re-registration season quickly approaching, many people

have

> > >> called the

> > >> Re-registration Department inquiring about " online " refresher

> > >> programs to

> > >> satisfy their re-registration requirements. We have become aware

of

> > >

> > >> some

> > >> on-line refresher classes that imply that they can be used to

meet

> > >> NREMT

> > >> re-registration guidelines.

> > >>

> > >> As a reminder, the NREMT's policy regarding distributive

education

> > >> (online,

> > >> video, or magazine based education) allows for a maximum of 10

> > >> hours of the

> > >> refresher course to be completed by distributive education. If

you

> > >> plan on

> > >> using distributive education for part of your refresher (or

> > > additional

> > >> continuing education section), that course MUST meet the NREMT

> > >> policy AND be

> > >> either State or <http://www.cecbems.htt> CECBEMS approved.

> > >>

> > >> The NREMT will not accept an ALL on-line refresher course as

part

> > >> of your

> > >> re-registration packet.

> > >>

> > >> Please contact your State EMS Office or

<http://www.cecbems.htt>

> > >> CECBEMS to

> > >> inquire if the distributive education program you are using is

> > >> approved.

> > >> Remember, you can ONLY use up to 10 hours of distributive

education

> > >

> > >> towards

> > >> your refresher requirement.

> > >>

> > >> ,_._,___

> > >>

January 31, 2007

To get my degree I used " live " , online, telecourses and audio courses. Most of

the courses I used for the degree were not " live " . The easiest were the " live "

courses. All of the other courses were significantly more difficult since I did

not have the immediate feedback from other students and the professors. I do

not think that I learned more from one method than the others, since all of the

courses had their good and bad points. I can only imagine that NR's thinking is

that if all is done through DE that there will be more cheating since there is

not an instructor onsite. I can only say if the student has a mindset to cheat

- that person will.

Peggy

je.hill@... wrote:

I am going to say one more thing here to expand on something in Gene's

post. Texas is a HUGE volume of business for NR. I don't know for sure if we are

their LARGEST state contract, but I suspect we are pretty close to it. I know

when Texas came on board, NR had to add staff and do some other things to handle

the extreme volume of business Texas provides for them. That means, ladies and

gentlemen, that WE have the capability as a state to drive this boat any where

we want it. They do NOT want to lose Texas's business and, if they are the

professional company they want to be, they will take heed and start making

changes quickly in customer service, distance education issues, etc. The archaic

mindset has got to go and has no business anymore in EMS education whether

initial or continuing education. Texas has been a leader in making strides in

many of these areas and are far ahead of most other states especially in the

realm of distance education. National needs to

catch up an

d catch up fast or we CAN drive that boat. We have the power because we have the

VOLUME of business that they now depend on. Kathy? Maxie? GETAC members? You are

the primary voice for us with NR, and many of us think it is time for you to

take the driver's seat in this issue and force some changes here or let's go

play with someone else.