Natural Blood thinner

[Guest guest]

I know a lot of afibbers wish they did not have to take coumadin. And I

don't know what your specific situation with afib is... but going to the website

for this product, I noted it says:

<

>

You do realize this kind of study is really no study at all; it would take a

great deal more people - with double blind studies and over a defined period

of time - and preferably not " healthy " people but those with heart/afib

issues, to determine if this is a good substitute for blood thinners. I am not

a

doctor and don't play one on TV, either, but substituting something like this

for coumadin sounds to me like playing with fire.

Lil

[Guest guest]

That's a pretty strong opinion, there. If it were indeed backed up with

scientific data and proof from studies, why would anyone be on coumadin? Latest

data on Vitamin E has been negative, in fact; I was told to stop my Vitamin E a

year ago.

Lil

In a message dated 4/16/2006 8:44:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

jshowker@... writes:

Vitamin E is probly the most powerful natural blood thinner.16-2400 IU per

day will usually do anything that warfarin will do.

[Guest guest]

Some people expressed an interest in Natural Blood thinners a while

ago.

I am now taking this and thought you might be interested.

http://www.sircoheart.com/html/index.htm

[Guest guest]

Is this a US Approved product?

best, manda

susan andrews wrote:

> Some people expressed an interest in Natural Blood thinners a while

> ago.

> I am now taking this and thought you might be interested.

>

> http://www.sircoheart.com/html/index.htm

> http://www.sircoheart.com/html/index.htm%5B/url%5D>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > Some people expressed an interest in Natural Blood thinners a while

> > ago.

The URL says it " prevents excessive platlet aggregation " , whatever

that means. I wonder if the results how up with an increased INR.

There are many things that " thin " the blood; i.e,, gingko, aspirin,

NSAIDS, antibiotics, Plavix, Natto, etc., and now Sirco. Natto seems

to have the most data available for a food based thinner. I suspect

one would still need regular INR blood tests using this as other

things we ingest also affect our blood. Given that supposedly some of

the above substances only affect the action of Coumadin so maybe they

wouldn't afffect what Sirco does.

It says that Sirco is a tomato based product. I didn't realize that

tomatoes were among the substances with blood thinning properties.

Being a supplement I doubt that there's any approval process involved

for sale in the US.

Bottom line for me is that I don't want to be a test vehicle for

something as crucial as an insurance policy for stroke prevention.

Coumadin - hate it but use it.

Gordon

[Guest guest]

Vitamin E is probly the most powerful natural blood thinner.16-2400 IU per

day will usually do anything that warfarin will do.

Jim showker

[Guest guest]

As someone who has suffered a TIA I would not want to take the risk.

ine

Re: Natural Blood thinner

I know a lot of afibbers wish they did not have to take coumadin. And I

don't know what your specific situation with afib is... but going to the

website

for this product, I noted it says:

<

>

You do realize this kind of study is really no study at all; it would

take a

great deal more people - with double blind studies and over a defined

period

of time - and preferably not " healthy " people but those with heart/afib

issues, to determine if this is a good substitute for blood thinners. I

am not a

doctor and don't play one on TV, either, but substituting something

like this

for coumadin sounds to me like playing with fire.

Lil

[Guest guest]

> That's a pretty strong opinion, there. If it were indeed backed up with

> scientific data and proof from studies, why would anyone be on coumadin?

I don't know, it's a well known fact that most doctors prefer natural

remedies over drugs. (sarcasm) ) Really, I'm just trying to be funny

here.

Drs. Wilfrid and Evan Shute of London, Ontario, in Canada pioneered such use

of the vitamin back in the 1940's. Their medical society went berserk,

blacklisted them from meetings, and expelled any doctor that even attended a

lecture by the Shute brothers. Sometimes it would seem that you'd be better

off with a bargain bunk on death row than to advocate vitamin therapy in the

face of the bunker mentality of our drug-and-surgery health establishment.

If you want to try it, essentailly doing your own study on you, just start

adding Vitamin E to your diet. Tell your doctor what you want to do. He

shouldn't care how you get your blood thinned, just so you do. Once could

start at 200 iu per day and increase by 200 each week. At some point your

weekly protime test with the doctor will increase and he will cut you back

on the warfarin. continue to increase the Vitamin E until the doctor takes

you completely off the Warfarin. Voila! you have then replaced a dangerous

drug with two pages of side effects in the PDR with a natural, safe

alternative.

> Latest

> data on Vitamin E has been negative, in fact; I was told to stop my

Vitamin E a

> year ago.

> Lil

Probly by one of those doctors who prefers natural remedies over drugs?

)

Vitamin E is vastly safer than warfarin, the generic name of Coumadin.

Warfarin is the active ingredient in rat poison. Rats are pretty smart, by

the way. They must be poisoned subtly and long-term, like patients. A

cumulative moderate overdose of Coumadin causes their blood to be too thin,

and the little bastards hemorrhage and die. A cumulative overdose of

vitamin E, even extreme megadosing, has never killed anybody. Check the US

Poison Control Centers data, or the DAWN statistical series if you don't

believe me. So vitamin E has a Coumadin-like effect without a Coumadin-like

danger.

http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/answers54.htm

Best,

Jim Showker

[Guest guest]

I would echo Lil's thoughts. Without a double-blind study, it's

not a study at all, it's a testimonial. I can't imagine anyone

dumping their coumadin (even despite its drawbacks) and blindly

substituting this product. Even if it might be helpful in low-risk

healthy people, it may be completely useless for afibbers.

Their explanation of the mechanism by which Fruitflow works is less

than helpful. I haven't seen any reference to what they refer to

as " spiky platelets " in the scientific literature. And I really

don't know if this is how coumadin works to prevent clots.

Mike in Minnesota

>

> I know a lot of afibbers wish they did not have to take coumadin.

And I

> don't know what your specific situation with afib is... but going

to the website

> for this product, I noted it says:

>

> <

studies.>>

>

> You do realize this kind of study is really no study at all; it

would take a

> great deal more people - with double blind studies and over a

defined period

> of time - and preferably not " healthy " people but those with

heart/afib

> issues, to determine if this is a good substitute for blood

thinners. I am not a

> doctor and don't play one on TV, either, but substituting

something like this

> for coumadin sounds to me like playing with fire.

> Lil

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have read about Vitamin E. The point at which Vitamin E

acts as a blood thinner, is the point at which it is considered

to be an amount that is too much.....There are many good articles

on the web about this.

best, manda

cnetwork@... wrote:

>

>

> That's a pretty strong opinion, there. If it were indeed backed up with

> scientific data and proof from studies, why would anyone be on

> coumadin? Latest

> data on Vitamin E has been negative, in fact; I was told to stop my

> Vitamin E a

> year ago.

> Lil

>

> In a message dated 4/16/2006 8:44:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> jshowker@... writes:

>

> Vitamin E is probly the most powerful natural blood thinner.16-2400

> IU per

> day will usually do anything that warfarin will do.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I have read about Vitamin E. The point at which Vitamin E

> acts as a blood thinner, is the point at which it is considered

> to be an amount that is too much.....There are many good articles

> on the web about this.

And the reason that it is considered to be too much is because at that level

it begins thinning the blood, and most health conscious people who take

vitamin E without a need for thinning of the blood should not take that

much. But, if you have a need to thin your blood and you could choose a

natural, safe product that does not cause death under any circumstances, or,

choose rat poison. . . . Well, it's a pretty easy choice for me. )

Best,

Jim

>

>

> best, manda

>

> cnetwork@... wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Vitamin E is probly the most powerful natural blood thinner.16-2400

IU per

> day will usually do anything that warfarin will do.

>

> Jim showker

>

Jim- here....

I have significant natural remedy credentials but...While natural

blood thinners may do great things for non AF folks they are not equal

to the task of preventing clots formed inside the large pocket of low

valosity blood in the fibrillating atria. No where in the body does

the blood ever go slow. when a clot forms there, one can only get very

lucky to avoid a stroke or heart attack . the other famous spot for

slow blood is in cramped legs on long airplane flights i would not

trust it for that problem either but there are other solutions to that.

NSR whole food lifestyle

[Guest guest]

> Jim- here....

> I have significant natural remedy credentials but...While natural

> blood thinners may do great things for non AF folks they are not equal

> to the task of preventing clots formed inside the large pocket of low

> valosity blood in the fibrillating atria. No where in the body does

> the blood ever go slow. when a clot forms there, one can only get very

> lucky to avoid a stroke or heart attack .

,

Interesting. But why would vitamin E not do the trick when warfarin

would, especially if the blood measured the same on the protime test?

Jim

[Guest guest]

snip> ,

> Interesting. But why would vitamin E not do the trick when

warfarin

> would, especially if the blood measured the same on the protime test?

>

> Jim

>

here

for my part i am on thin ice here but my guess is that you can not get

a true INR 2+,using only vitamin e , garlic and ginco biobla . if you

could it may not be stable (therefore may be risky) .heprin is also

used but is not a common solution.

Coumadin acts by causing the liver to not produce fibrin . I am not

sure what the respective " natural thiners " are doing.As some other

poster observed , platelet aggration is a different function.

This is not a core area of my study. sorry for speaking without proper

investigation.

[Guest guest]

I discussed the same subject a couple of years ago with a Coumadin

spokes person. Vitaman E cannot be measured in the same way as

Coumadin since it does inhibit clotting in a different way, it needs to

be measured differently. So far there is no reliable way of

monitoring it. Besides, I added Vitamin E to my Coumadin over a trial

period, it did not affect my INR and for safety reason discontinued.

Its just not as easy as you make it sound.

> ,

> Interesting. But why would vitamin E not do the trick when warfarin

> would, especially if the blood measured the same on the protime test?

>

> Jim

>

[Guest guest]

That is the way I understood it, Warfarin not only thins the blood but

it treats the clots that will pool in the Atrium with afib, there are

many things that thin the blood including alcohol but I would not

advocate using them for stroke prevention with afib.

Warfarin is a high maintenance medication with constant INR check and

doctors do not put people on in unnecessarily.

ine

Re: Natural Blood thinner

I discussed the same subject a couple of years ago with a Coumadin

spokes person. Vitaman E cannot be measured in the same way as

Coumadin since it does inhibit clotting in a different way, it needs to

be measured differently. So far there is no reliable way of

monitoring it. Besides, I added Vitamin E to my Coumadin over a trial

period, it did not affect my INR and for safety reason discontinued.

Its just not as easy as you make it sound.

> ,

> Interesting. But why would vitamin E not do the trick when warfarin

> would, especially if the blood measured the same on the protime test?

>

> Jim

>

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[Guest guest]

If your blood is thin, it's thin, and if you get into a situations where the

fact that it's thin kills you, it's not going to matter how it got there.

******************************

Vitamin E is vastly safer than warfarin, the generic name of Coumadin. Warfarin

is the active ingredient in rat poison. Rats are pretty smart, by the way.

They must be poisoned subtly and long-term, like patients. A cumulative

moderate overdose of Coumadin causes their blood to be too thin, and the little

bastards hemorrhage and die. A cumulative overdose of vitamin E, even extreme

megadosing, has never killed anybody. Check the US Poison Control Centers data,

or the DAWN statistical series if you don't believe me. So vitamin E has a

Coumadin-like effect without a Coumadin-like

danger.