Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 > I haven't seen any discussion on this yet. Anyone out there seen > these in person? For you non-police folks, thoughts on carrying > them (and for EMS, on/off duty?)? Now that they're civilian owned, > do you have your protocols in place for responding to such > incidents? Prong removal? Evidence collection? > > <http://www.taser.com/ctwo/index.htm> > > Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 In a message dated 1/11/2007 11:27:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, paramedicop@... writes: > I haven't seen any discussion on this yet. Anyone out there seen these in person? Nope just saw this now. For you non-police folks, thoughts on carrying them (and for EMS, on/off duty?)? On EMS duty no, off duty maybe (Houston has a few areas I could use this in) Now that they're civilian owned, do you have your protocols in place for responding to such > incidents? No Prong removal? I thought TASER prongs were just pulled out as they have no barbs? Evidence collection? I'm not even concerned about this. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Buddhist philosopher at-large LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 We do have protocols on removal and evidence collection. No, our medics do not carry them nor will they ever. Police call us to the scene that they used it, and we remove them, place antibiotic ointment and a band-aid to avoid anyone requesting hospital transport. Andy Foote Re: Fwd: Taser C2 In a message dated 1/11/2007 11:27:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, paramedicop@... writes: > I haven't seen any discussion on this yet. Anyone out there seen these in person? Nope just saw this now. For you non-police folks, thoughts on carrying them (and for EMS, on/off duty?)? On EMS duty no, off duty maybe (Houston has a few areas I could use this in) Now that they're civilian owned, do you have your protocols in place for responding to such > incidents? No Prong removal? I thought TASER prongs were just pulled out as they have no barbs? Evidence collection? I'm not even concerned about this. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Buddhist philosopher at-large LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 And by the way we bag them for evidence and give them to the police department. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Believe me it is addressed in our protocols and police on the scene never leave the scene without them. This protocol was written in conjunction with our BPD. It is great when you can work together. I was contacted this past week by another service that stated that they never had any contact with their PD's taser barbs until they were asked to come on scene and remove them, because they were sending all of their tased prisoners to the ER. Boy dont you know they were happy in the ER when that changed. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 You know I could be really crude on this one, but I won't. We have not had that occur and we would more than likely remove from the breast, genitals and face, but transport the eye. After all we are medics and not perverts. Those area's are just another part of the body we so often have to expose. If I am going to defibrillate a female, I do not take her to the ER and ask a female nurse to do it. In a message dated 1/11/2007 10:03:29 PM Central Standard Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: Andy, Do you remove them if they are in the eye, face, breast or genitals? That is our " transport to the ED " requirements. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Mike, We already have a protocol for Taser dart removal...we may take a look at it....but " Evidence collection " ??? From what I have been reading the last few days...that isn't an EMS funciton...why wouldn't I possible address that in our protocols??? Dudley Fwd: Taser C2 > I haven't seen any discussion on this yet. Anyone out there seen > these in person? For you non-police folks, thoughts on carrying > them (and for EMS, on/off duty?)? Now that they're civilian owned, > do you have your protocols in place for responding to such > incidents? Prong removal? Evidence collection? > > <http://www.taser.com/ctwo/index.htm> > > Mike ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 This is one of the few cases where you might have a tasered subject, but no police on scene (yet). Much like preserving clothing in shootings and stabbings, etc. where possible. Honestly, there's no reason to keep the darts, but some agencies like to have them. The " confetti " that comes out is more than enough to identify the cartridge (and owner/user). Just a thought or two... Mike > Mike, > > We already have a protocol for Taser dart removal...we may take a > look at it....but " Evidence collection " ??? From what I have been > reading the last few days...that isn't an EMS funciton...why > wouldn't I possible address that in our protocols??? > > Dudley > > > Fwd: Taser C2 > > > I haven't seen any discussion on this yet. Anyone out there seen > > these in person? For you non-police folks, thoughts on carrying > > them (and for EMS, on/off duty?)? Now that they're civilian owned, > > do you have your protocols in place for responding to such > > incidents? Prong removal? Evidence collection? > > > > <http://www.taser.com/ctwo/index.htm> > > > > Mike > > __________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and > security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from > across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Andy, I think you misread Dudley's question. The reason I see the need for this question was that those areas can cause a problem from the medical perspective. For example we all know that an imbedded foreign body in the eye can cause the lose of the vitreous humor which is irreplaceable and the loss of which leads to inevitable blindness. All of the other areas he mentions have similar issues related to them. I am very much in agreement with you regarding Medics doing what needs to be done when it need to be done medically, regardless of gender of the Medic compared to the victim (with the usual caveats to certain procedures etc.) but in this case I feel Dudley is asking a legitimate question that needs to be address in a TASER protocol. In a message dated 1/12/2007 12:33:44 A.M. Central Standard Time, rachfoote@... writes: You know I could be really crude on this one, but I won't. We have not had that occur and we would more than likely remove from the breast, genitals and face, but transport the eye. After all we are medics and not perverts. Those area's are just another part of the body we so often have to expose. If I am going to defibrillate a female, I do not take her to the ER and ask a female nurse to do it. In a message dated 1/11/2007 10:03:29 PM Central Standard Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: Andy, Do you remove them if they are in the eye, face, breast or genitals? That is our " transport to the ED " requirements. Dudley Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Buddhist philosopher at-large LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I can see where you thought I messed up, but really my answer remains as is. We would definately transport the patient if something was imbedded in his eye, but we would remove the others. Our protocols are specific. If you have ever dealth with tasers there is a barb. We are aware and professional enough that no hospital transport or bill would be necessary. Is anybody as busy as we are. Since the week before Christmas, it has been non-stop. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 In a message dated 1/13/2007 8:18:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, rachfoote@... writes: If you have ever dealth with tasers there is a barb. And there lies the issue with those body areas. A shot to the face even could leave a patient disfigured hence in some ED's back east where I once worked the MD's would NOT remove anything from a face until the plastics guys were in on the consult unless they needed to do so for the express purpose of stabilization of the patient. I can see where a service practicing defensible EMS as it's often called might elect not to remove TASER barbs from those areas. As far as saving the PERP a hospital bill well if they deserved to be TASED oh well is my response to that Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Buddhist philosopher at-large LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I guess I could say then that if he deserved to be tased he deserved a scar. Actually he could get hit in the face with all of the taser barbs and not leave a scar. I am tired of explaining ever possiblity that could ever happen, but may happen if the sun comes out of the clouds at 4am, or if a tree falls in Brooklyn, or what if what if what if. If you havent dealt with tasers then dont make a protocol until you do. Then write a 22 page protocol if it ever hits any one of those 22 places on a rainy night in the mojave dessert before sunrise on a full moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Andy, Glad to see you are as grouchy as I am tonight -- Re: Fwd: Taser C2 I guess I could say then that if he deserved to be tased he deserved a scar. Actually he could get hit in the face with all of the taser barbs and not leave a scar. I am tired of explaining ever possiblity that could ever happen, but may happen if the sun comes out of the clouds at 4am, or if a tree falls in Brooklyn, or what if what if what if. If you havent dealt with tasers then dont make a protocol until you do. Then write a 22 page protocol if it ever hits any one of those 22 places on a rainy night in the mojave dessert before sunrise on a full moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Reply to those overly concerned about taser barbs. I will send the protocol via texasems-I this Tuesday. As we always agree, protocols are guidelines. Depending on the gene pool of our medics each week, we re-evaluate all of our protocols on a weekly basis. Sometimes even on a daily basis. Come on guys, it is a taser barb, not a harpoon. We are smart enough to use our good judgement on each removal call. Anyone that cannot make that judgement usually doesn't work for me that long. I wear a size 8 on Monday and it goes down to a 7 1/4 by Friday. Thanks for asking Dudley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Andy do they specifically dictate the evaluation to do pre and post removal to make sure no neuro deficits exist? Also, in your Taser protocol, what patients does your protocol mandate being transported to the hospital? Besides the barb in the eye? Dudley PS: Until you brought it up, I had never thought about not providing treatment because of an injury to a " private " area...it is the potential of complications and other significant issues of concern by our medical director desires an ER physician evaluation when the dart is embedded in these sensitive areas. Re: Fwd: Taser C2 I can see where you thought I messed up, but really my answer remains as is. We would definately transport the patient if something was imbedded in his eye, but we would remove the others. Our protocols are specific. If you have ever dealth with tasers there is a barb. We are aware and professional enough that no hospital transport or bill would be necessary. Is anybody as busy as we are. Since the week before Christmas, it has been non-stop. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Andy, Please forgive me here...but what size cowboy hat do you wear??? Couldn't resist... Dudley Re: Fwd: Taser C2 I guess I could say then that if he deserved to be tased he deserved a scar. Actually he could get hit in the face with all of the taser barbs and not leave a scar. I am tired of explaining ever possiblity that could ever happen, but may happen if the sun comes out of the clouds at 4am, or if a tree falls in Brooklyn, or what if what if what if. If you havent dealt with tasers then dont make a protocol until you do. Then write a 22 page protocol if it ever hits any one of those 22 places on a rainy night in the mojave dessert before sunrise on a full moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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