Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I'm currently updating protocols for our first responders. I'm trying to remain consistent with state statutes regarding 'DNR'. No where in Texas Health & Safety Code can I find mention of 'DNAR'; only 'DNR'. To better reflect state code, I feel that in protocols I should reflect the term 'DNR' instead of 'DNAR'. Thought please...Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe " DNAR " is " DO NOT ATTEMPT RESUSCITATION " and is a term used overseas---- as in the UK. Now, my question: If someone from another country produces a " DNR " from their country, in whatever language--- even if we can't interpret it in English, but a family member tells us what it says, do we honor it? OK, I'll call the ER DOC and ask him------ (I heard someone say that in the background). and " DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY " -------- ( I HEARD THAT ON LETHAL WEAPON- 2 ? ) All kidding aside. Mark Sastre wrote: I'm currently updating protocols for our first responders. I'm trying to remain consistent with state statutes regarding 'DNR'. No where in Texas Health & Safety Code can I find mention of 'DNAR'; only 'DNR'. To better reflect state code, I feel that in protocols I should reflect the term 'DNR' instead of 'DNAR'. Thought please...Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/9/2007 7:54:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, airmedic51@... writes: Now, my question: If someone from another country produces a " DNR " from their country, in whatever language--- even if we can't interpret it in English, but a family member tells us what it says, do we honor it? My gut says nope. But it's been wrong a few times in life. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/10/2007 11:30:05 AM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: In a message dated 1/9/2007 7:54:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, _airmedic51@sbcglobaairme_ (mailto:airmedic51@...) writes: Now, my question: If someone from another country produces a " DNR " from their country, in whatever language--- even if we can't interpret it in English, but a family member tells us what it says, do we honor it? My gut says nope. But it's been wrong a few times in life. speaking as a medical control physician, if the family is telling me that that patient has a terminal condition and that they have a valid DNR/DNAR in hand, I'll feel obliged to honor it in the situation where the patient is already clinically dead...It's when part of the family is insisting on 'doing everything' in the face of an apparently valid Living Will/DNR that things get sticky. ck S. Krin, DO FAAFP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/10/2007 12:04:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, krin135@... writes: speaking as a medical control physician, Hey if I'm telling you this via OLMC and you say DNR so be that. I was answering in the " field " no OLMC aspect. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/10/2007 2:45:40 PM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: In a message dated 1/10/2007 12:04:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, _krin135@..._ (mailto:krin135@...) writes: speaking as a medical control physician, Hey if I'm telling you this via OLMC and you say DNR so be that. I was answering in the " field " no OLMC aspect. Understood...what I was pointing out was that if the family is supporting the DNR/DNAR form, then the chances of having a bad outcome, either medically or legally, are very slim. ck S. Krin, DO FAAFP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/10/2007 3:33:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, krin135@... writes: then the chances of having a bad outcome, either medically or legally, are very slim. Well yea but the outcome of the patient with CPR in progress is a fairly safe bet and it ain't good <VBG in a sarcastic way>. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Buddhist philosopher at-large LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/10/2007 4:07:05 PM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: In a message dated 1/10/2007 3:33:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, _krin135@..._ (mailto:krin135@...) writes: then the chances of having a bad outcome, either medically or legally, are very slim. Well yea but the outcome of the patient with CPR in progress is a fairly safe bet and it ain't good <VBG in a sarcastic way>. mmm...was thinking more on the order of having to explain to one half the family why there is a rutabaga with a vent attached because the other half the family insisted that dear 99 yo blind deaf and demented tube fed but breathing on her own granny stopped breathing and got intubated...and now can't be weaned off the vent without a court order.... ck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 In a message dated 1/10/2007 4:15:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, krin135@... writes: mmm...was thinking more on the order of having to explain to one half the family why there is a rutabaga with a vent attached because the other half the family insisted that dear 99 yo blind deaf and demented tube fed but breathing on her own granny stopped breathing and got intubated...and now can't be weaned off the vent without a court order.... Hence why I prefer EMS to MD level issues but I hear YA. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Buddhist philosopher at-large LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Home Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 We got a little off topic here.......Back to the original question please.....I appreciate your feedback. > > I'm currently updating protocols for our first responders. I'm trying > to remain consistent with state statutes regarding 'DNR'. No where in > Texas Health & Safety Code can I find mention of 'DNAR'; only 'DNR'. > To better reflect state code, I feel that in protocols I should > reflect the term 'DNR' instead of 'DNAR'. Thought please...Mark. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 The very first out of hospital DNR was exactly what you were asking for. Simply put a DNR order that applied to all reas up to an including a hospital ED. Rinard ESTI WMD EMS Program Supervisor (office) (NEW CELL NUMBER) (fax) john.rinard@... >>> " Mark Sastre " 01/13/07 6:00 PM >>> We got a little off topic here.......Back to the original question please.....I appreciate your feedback. > > I'm currently updating protocols for our first responders. I'm trying > to remain consistent with state statutes regarding 'DNR'. No where in > Texas Health & Safety Code can I find mention of 'DNAR'; only 'DNR'. > To better reflect state code, I feel that in protocols I should > reflect the term 'DNR' instead of 'DNAR'. Thought please...Mark. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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