Holiday Pay Question

[Guest guest]

Without having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone tell me if a

company is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work Thanksgiving or

Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

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[Guest guest]

There is no " holiday pay " in any federal law that I am aware of nor am I

aware of any state laws that provide for that. FSLA only requires

overtime for non exempt employees after a certain number of hours have

been worked. Additional pay during holidays is strictly a voluntary

benefit provided by the employer.

AJL

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Wayne D

Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:09 AM

To: Texas EMS list

Subject: Holiday Pay Question

Without having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone tell

me if a company is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work

Thanksgiving or Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

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[Guest guest]

That is correct. According Texas Association of Counties says that Holiday

pay is optional, it does not fall under Fair Labor.

Debbie

Holiday Pay Question

Without having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone tell

me if a company is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work

Thanksgiving or Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

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[Guest guest]

And, if the holiday was their regular shift day, then a normal workweek

payday law would apply, so there may not even be any overtime attached...

Steve Mc

_____

From: Debbie Fishbeck

Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:39 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Holiday Pay Question

That is correct. According Texas Association of Counties says that Holiday

pay is optional, it does not fall under Fair Labor.

Debbie

Holiday Pay Question

Without having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone tell

me if a company is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work

Thanksgiving or Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

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[Guest guest]

NO. Sorry for the abruptness. I'v been there.

I've even worked for a company in the past that no Christmas bonus was even

given--- BUT-

I have come to realize that many companies are doing away with bonuses to cut

costs.

I now work for an organization that does give a Christmas bonus, and it is

much appreciated.

I wish you a safe and prosperous holiday and New Year !

Learning medic

Wayne D wrote:

Without having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone

tell me if a company is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work

Thanksgiving or Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

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[Guest guest]

That is a good question because our department only pays straight time and no

overtime such as time and a half or double time. I was asked to work Christmas

Day and I refused. What is the incentive to work holidays for straight time?

Larry D.

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[Guest guest]

I attended a two week class in at the National Fire Academy Emmittsburg land

a yr ago in October and the discussion of overtime came up. The class was full

of personnel from fire departments all over the country and I asked which

departments got overtime pay and everyone in there raised their hand except me.

Our department doesn't pay overtime, just straight time.

L.

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[Guest guest]

no unless it's required by a contract or some collective bargaining agreement.

employers pay holiday pay to be nice.

jim davis

Wayne D wrote: Without

having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone tell me if a company

is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work Thanksgiving or

Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

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[Guest guest]

>

> That is a good question because our department only pays straight

time and no overtime such as time and a half or double time. I was

asked to work Christmas Day and I refused. What is the incentive to

work holidays for straight time?

> Larry D.

>

> WOW!!!! THATS IMPRESSIVE...IM SURE YOUR EMPLOYER WAS PROUD!!! That

is

why some employers dont give expensive (if any) Christmas

parties,bonuses, and incentives to work Holidays because of people

like

you!! Thank God I have GREATFUL Employees and I think they know they

are appreciated.Sorry I dont know you, and am not bashing you but

your

employer does not owe you anything extra to work on a Holiday, just

be thankful you

have a job! And before you ask I have kick ass Christmas parties for

my

guys and take care of them when they work Christmas...Something to

think about.....Mike

>

>

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do what??

Yes you are trying to bash me and every Paramedic on this list. You ought to be

ashamed of yourself thinking a Kick Ass Christmas Party is all that is needed as

incentive to work on holidays. Give me a break!

I don't have to work holidays so yes my employer does have to offer me extra to

work. Your right, some people should be thankful they have a job. Guess what? I

don't have to work!

The reason why Paramedics are so underpaid is because people have your attitude

and they should be grateful to have a job. Wrong answer, this isn't the 30's and

we are not in a depression.

To all Paramedics who work for a company like this I encourage you to call in

sick on Christmas Day and find another job. You are a Paramedic and you are in

demand. Your credentials can get you a good paying job anywhere you want as long

as you are competent.

Good luck and Merry Christmas.

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[Guest guest]

No you are not...you are required to pay minimum wage for all hours and if the

employee works more than 40 a week, than 1.5 times their regular rate of

pay....some other caveats...but that is all you are required to pay.

Vactaion, sick, holiday, bonus, cert pay, etc are all things employers do to

attract employees in a capitalistic society....there is certainly no requirement

to pay such things.

Matter of fact, I heard of an agency near us in SA that promised to pay their

paramedics $44,000 a year....but when you looked at it, this included no

benefits or time off. So if you worked all your scheduled hours in a year you

would make $44K but if you took any time off you made less....

Dudley

Holiday Pay Question

Without having to go and read all of the US DOL rules, can someone tell me if a

company is required to pay employee's holiday pay if they work Thanksgiving or

Christmas?

Thanks,

Wayne

__________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Larry,

What happens if you work more than 40 hours in a week? If you work longer than

40, they owe you some more money....

Dudley

Re: Holiday Pay Question

That is a good question because our department only pays straight time and no

overtime such as time and a half or double time. I was asked to work Christmas

Day and I refused. What is the incentive to work holidays for straight time?

Larry D.

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[Guest guest]

They only pay straight time, no time and a half and it is difficult to get

anyone to work overtime or should I say past their regular shifts. They would

rather work at a smaller department pt and run a fraction of the calls for the

same hourly wage. Can't say I blame them.

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[Guest guest]

What is an average annual salary at that company if you don't mind me asking?

By the way, I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with anyone.

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[Guest guest]

So you are saying that this employer of yours does not pay overtime (1.5 times

your regular rate of pay) no matter how many hours you work? So, if you work 72

hours one week, you get paid no overtime? Do you work for a fire department?

Unless you do, it appears on the minimum details you are sharing, that your

employer is violating the FLSA and owes you and the rest of your compadres some

money (even if you do work for an FD, you are still owed OT, just at a different

cut-off)....might want to look into it....

Dudley

Re: Holiday Pay Question

They only pay straight time, no time and a half and it is difficult to get

anyone to work overtime or should I say past their regular shifts. They would

rather work at a smaller department pt and run a fraction of the calls for the

same hourly wage. Can't say I blame them.

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[Guest guest]

This website lists the majority of the exemptions from the FLSA laws:

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.asp

Medics are not exempt from FLSA unless they are considered management and

are employed as " salaried " and not paid by the hour, or are with

organizations that have less than 5 employees. Management is not explicitly

defined but has been accepted as being a supervisor of 3 or more employees -

being the person those employees report directly to and being the one who

handles any performance reviews or disciplinary actions of those employees.

If you are paid by the number of hours you work, your employer must have on

local policy defining when the work week begins and ends - must be 7

complete days, i.e. Monday thru Sunday or Friday thru Thursday. From that

definition, if you work more than 40 hours within the defined work week, you

must be compensated by a multiplier of 1.5. Some employers opt to give time

off instead of pay, but this is defined by company local policy.

Another point to clear is that FLSA spells out that everything must be

handled on a work-week by work-week basis.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs23.htm This means that

employers cannot look at a two week or pay-period frame. Perfect example to

use is that on a 2 week payroll, if you work 50 hours the first week and 30

hours on the second, you must be compensated with 70 hours regular pay and

10 hours of OT. If you are being paid as 80 hours straight pay, it is

against the FLSA laws.

There is only one exemption I could find to the 40 hour / 7 days that can

affect EMS: if the employer is a Fire Department or Law Enforcement Agency,

section 7(k). Under this exemption, there is a work period definition that

can be as little as a 7 day period or a maximum of 28 days - the Fire

Department factor being 212 hours during the maximum 28 day time frame of

the work period. This works to ~ 7.5 hours per each and every day in the

work period should it be less than 28 days. Example would be if the work

period is three weeks (21 days), then you would earn OT compensation if you

exceed 157.5 hours within that three week period. If you work a 24/48

shift, you work 7 days during this 21 day period, = 168 hours, = 157.5 hours

regular time and 10.5 hours OT. I don't know who does payroll on 3 weeks,

but that is the easiest and clearest way to show this example. By the way,

the Law Enforcement section of this exemption allows for 171 hours per 28

days. More information about this can be found at:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs8.htm

Wier

[Guest guest]

>

> Wow, that came out of nowhere.

No, it was in direct response to someone posting as Mike West.

Perhaps it was Mike West, perhaps not - with this list, you never

know.

> I personally know Mike West, have worked for him for over a year, and

> will continue to work for him, covering holidays if I can. Ashamed? Of

> what? Of taking care of his employees beyond what most others do?

>

> People who know me know I really don't take crap from worthless

> employers and have no patience with idiotic administration. That's why I

> work for Mike, he is neither.

>

> I urge you and anyone else on the list to know the facts before voicing

> your 'assumptions'.

You and I must know two different Mike West's then. The Mike West I

worked with/for did not meet the above description. Note: I am not

the original poster, and I don't care to share Mike West stories

either way... just saying that there may be more than one. There's

more than one Mike in EMS, and I'm sure the other ones may not

always want to be mistaken for me...

> My full time job tells me that I work 24 on and 48 off, nothing in that

> deal about holidays, so I don't have a choice about working the

> holidays. That's just the way it goes, and as a rule, I take one for the

> team by letting someone else take Christmas off as I celebrate Hannukah

> and don't need the 25th of December off, but I digress.

Most cities give holiday pay in one form or another. A friend of mine

works for an agency, though, that doesn't value its employees and

gives crappy benefits and poor time off policies (sick, vacation or

otherwise), so employees generally aren't as happy as well-incented

employees (friends) that work in other places are. That's probably

another whole discussion, though... whether employees are assets to be

protected or resources to be used and discarded...

I will note that since my daughter will be spending Christmas with her

mom this year, I'm going to be covering a shift at my volunteer job so

a paid person can be home with their family. I do this because on

those times that I'm scheduled to work, I appreciate it when someone

does the same for me. I've noticed that in the fire service this is

very, very common. EMS? Not so much... some places.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Wow, that came out of nowhere.

I personally know Mike West, have worked for him for over a year, and

will continue to work for him, covering holidays if I can. Ashamed? Of

what? Of taking care of his employees beyond what most others do?

People who know me know I really don't take crap from worthless

employers and have no patience with idiotic administration. That's why I

work for Mike, he is neither.

I urge you and anyone else on the list to know the facts before voicing

your 'assumptions'.

Mike never assumes that a mere 'kick ass; Christmas party is all he owes

his employees, nor is it the only incentive he gives to cover the

holidays. I have seen him work and outwork most of his employees, and

consider him a personal friend.

My full time job tells me that I work 24 on and 48 off, nothing in that

deal about holidays, so I don't have a choice about working the

holidays. That's just the way it goes, and as a rule, I take one for the

team by letting someone else take Christmas off as I celebrate Hannukah

and don't need the 25th of December off, but I digress.

Underpaid? Working for Mike West? Not hardly, you obviously have no idea

what you are talking about.

The fact is that holidays are benefits, not requirements, and if you

feel that having to work on a holiday is reason enough to leave your

current employer, that's your prerogative, wonder what this world would

be like if all of us called in sick on Christmas until we got a

bonus....

That's has to rank up there as one of the most ridiculous things I have

ever heard.

W. Hatfield FF/EMT-P

www.canyonlakefire-ems.org

" Ubi concordia, ibi victoria "

Re: Re: Holiday Pay Question

Do what??

Yes you are trying to bash me and every Paramedic on this list. You

ought to be ashamed of yourself thinking a Kick Ass Christmas Party is

all that is needed as incentive to work on holidays. Give me a break!

I don't have to work holidays so yes my employer does have to offer me

extra to work. Your right, some people should be thankful they have a

job. Guess what? I don't have to work!

The reason why Paramedics are so underpaid is because people have your

attitude and they should be grateful to have a job. Wrong answer, this

isn't the 30's and we are not in a depression.

To all Paramedics who work for a company like this I encourage you to

call in sick on Christmas Day and find another job. You are a Paramedic

and you are in demand. Your credentials can get you a good paying job

anywhere you want as long as you are competent.

Good luck and Merry Christmas.

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[Guest guest]

7k exemption is the only reason you wouldn't make time and a half over

40.

W. Hatfield FF/EMT-P

www.canyonlakefire-ems.org

" Ubi concordia, ibi victoria "

Re: Holiday Pay Question

That is a good question because our department only pays straight time

and no overtime such as time and a half or double time. I was asked to

work Christmas Day and I refused. What is the incentive to work holidays

for straight time?

Larry D.

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[Guest guest]

Working 40 hours a week, no OT and not counting benefit time, it's about

30k

W. Hatfield FF/EMT-P

www.canyonlakefire-ems.org

" Ubi concordia, ibi victoria "

RE: Re: Holiday Pay Question

What is an average annual salary at that company if you don't mind me

asking?

By the way, I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with anyone.

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for giving me that information, but it certainly isn't good pay for a

Paramedic. I still maintain that Paramedics are underpaid and we need to unite

and fight for better pay. That is why there is a nationwide Paramedic shortage.

Now is the time to do something about it, but no one can agree on where to

start.

There was a time that I didn't care what I got paid and it took me a long time

to realize that we as a profession are underpaid and treated like second class

citizens. I still admire those volunteers that love to do this job for free, but

they are few and far between these days.

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[Guest guest]

Larry,

We agree that medics are still now, and will continue to be underpaid as a

whole until we muster together and do something about it. THERE is the

underlying problem, for whatever reasons we cannot seem to agree on what we

want, let alone how to get it. That'll take time to work out. Difficult, but

not impossible.

There are services out there that truly take advantage of their employees,

those are the ones that need to be rooted out and exposed. On the flip side,

there are those that truly do what is best for the employees while at the

same time continuing to make a profit, which is the main reason they are in

existence.

While I do agree that it takes a special person to volunteer (most of us

older ones started out as such), so long as they volunteer, their entity

will never advance to hiring paid staff. That is not a slam on volunteers,

merely an observation. I understand why they do it, and in some places I

certainly understand the budget constraints. That's a whole different

thread...

30k for a private service running non emergent transfers, for around here,

is not bad. Not sure what part of the world you hail from, so I don't know

what to compare it to. Then again, 30k in Austin is about what a fry guy

trainee is making....

Mike

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

www.canyonlakefire-ems.org <http://www.canyonlakefire-ems.org/>

" Ubi concordia, ibi victoria "

RE: Re: Holiday Pay Question

Thanks for giving me that information, but it certainly isn't good pay for a

Paramedic. I still maintain that Paramedics are underpaid and we need to

unite and fight for better pay. That is why there is a nationwide Paramedic

shortage. Now is the time to do something about it, but no one can agree on

where to start.

There was a time that I didn't care what I got paid and it took me a long

time to realize that we as a profession are underpaid and treated like

second class citizens. I still admire those volunteers that love to do this

job for free, but they are few and far between these days.

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[Guest guest]

My Friend, If I may.. I am a Paramedic and have been for several

years and have worked numerous Holidays for a lot of Companies that

gave nothing. Not even a Thank You. I think I mentioned in my post I

take care of my Medics that work on Christmas, not a said bonus but

one of those when you get your check ..hhmmmm well kinda like pulling

your jeans out of the dryer and finding a few extra couple of hundred

bucks. THE BEST KIND in my book, the power of suprise works wonders,

maybe you will learn that one day. Sorry if I upset you. Just to let

you know when I started our Company I made sure that I would NEVER

treat any of our guys like I had been treated in the past by other

Companies, we actually care about our employees maybe that is why

they are not as harsh as you are towards your employers.

May you have a Blessed Christmas!!

Mike West

>

> Do what??

> Yes you are trying to bash me and every Paramedic on this list. You

ought to be ashamed of yourself thinking a Kick Ass Christmas Party

is all that is needed as incentive to work on holidays. Give me a

break!

> I don't have to work holidays so yes my employer does have to offer

me extra to work. Your right, some people should be thankful they

have a job. Guess what? I don't have to work!

> The reason why Paramedics are so underpaid is because people have

your attitude and they should be grateful to have a job. Wrong

answer, this isn't the 30's and we are not in a depression.

> To all Paramedics who work for a company like this I encourage you

to call in sick on Christmas Day and find another job. You are a

Paramedic and you are in demand. Your credentials can get you a good

paying job anywhere you want as long as you are competent.

> Good luck and Merry Christmas.

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

__

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> Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I was " low man " at a County Radio dispatch job I had 2 kids under 2 and

another on the way. One of the Bosses had this thing he did on his own. He

was an Administrative lieutenant and had no wife nor kids just him and his Mom

and of course a few siblings and the like. So on Thanksgiving and on

Christmas he'd come in on his own time on an MXT (MXT = Mutual Exchange of

Time) and

work 4 hours on thanksgiving for a guy with a big family that was on that day

(effectively the last 4 hours of his 12- hour day) and then he'd come in for

the last 4 hours of the overnight shift for one guy and stay for the first

4-hours of the day shift for another guy. He'd work the boards as he did when

he was a line dispatcher. The MXT part was the gift you see as the rules for

what we called " Free MXT's " made the how and when you paid the other guy back

between you and him so the guy on the schedule got paid for his time (under

the Union contract we got 1.5 the normal rate for the 8 hours holiday pay and

regular time for the other 4 hours of the tour).

The thing was of course that as a Dispatcher I could never pay back the time

as his rank and grade were about 3 levels above me and I was unqualified to

do so (at the time).

it was a gift from the Boss to that guy or gal he covered. No one else at

that job did anything close to it but this LT did that for now going on 25 years

to include now where he is the Director of the County Department that runs

Dispatch!

That taught me a lesson I took with me up the ladder.

the other life's lesson I learned years ago from a fire chief of mine was

the power of two words, Thank you.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(Home Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

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[Guest guest]

I have to say that in 9 years in EMS I have worked for

1 employer, yes 1, that gave a christmas bonus based

on 1% of the year end salary to all employees. Even

though the employer paid well below the local average,

they take care of the employee and the director backs

his employees 100%. The Christmas bonus was very much

appreciated. It was nice to recieve the bonus. And

you are right the employer owes us nothing for working

a holiday, BUT...we don't have to work a holiday when

asked either if there is no incentive. If you are

scheduled then oh well. Some employers nowadays take

full advantage of the employee milking him for all

they can and all the employee has and in return the

employee screws up once and they hang him out to dry.

The employer never looks at how the employee came in

everytime he was asked to or how he stayed everytime

he was asked to. Too many employers nowadays take

advantage of the employee. Alot of employers are

making alot of money, yet they only pay the employee

pennies on the dollar and yet they expect the employee

to give them all he's got. I worked for one employer

who was going to withhold checks over the Thanksgiving

holiday. As a supervisor I stood up for my guys and

even threatened to quit. Needless to say the DO came

in and issued out checks as he did not share the same

ideals as the owners. You take care of me I take care

of you. That is how it works. Anyway, if you take

care of your guys then kudos, not many are doing that

nowadays.

Salvasor Caouchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> >

> > That is a good question because our department

> only pays straight

> time and no overtime such as time and a half or

> double time. I was

> asked to work Christmas Day and I refused. What is

> the incentive to

> work holidays for straight time?

> > Larry D.

> >

> > WOW!!!! THATS IMPRESSIVE...IM SURE YOUR EMPLOYER

> WAS PROUD!!! That

> is

> why some employers dont give expensive (if any)

> Christmas

> parties,bonuses, and incentives to work Holidays

> because of people

> like

> you!! Thank God I have GREATFUL Employees and I

> think they know they

> are appreciated.Sorry I dont know you, and am not

> bashing you but

> your

> employer does not owe you anything extra to work on

> a Holiday, just

> be thankful you

> have a job! And before you ask I have kick ass

> Christmas parties for

> my

> guys and take care of them when they work

> Christmas...Something to

> think about.....Mike

> >

> >

>

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