Another element in the HR puzzler

[Guest guest]

I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM's are operating

successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS

experts around the country as some of the best systems going...

Excuse me; please provide concrete examples of this?? I am not aware of any

Public Utility or SSM systems for that matter operating successfully any

where in the US.

Jim<

[Guest guest]

DUDMAN,

What's your definition of successful operation?

What information do you have that would lead you to identify Richmond and

Pinellas as " successful " operations either as PUMs or SSM systems?

I can't access the financial information that would tell me that unless I

file requests for open records disclosures, and I expect that the information

would not be forthcoming without a fight. If I obtained that information, it

would take me and a CPA and possibly some lawyers familiar with the landscape in

Virginia and Florida a long time to come to a conclusion about the viability

of those operations.

Have you obtained that information? Or are you just stating a conclusion?

Isn't it a fact that your statement is nothing but a conclusion, based upon

your often stated position that SSM and PUM systems are great, and not

supported by any facts whatsoever?

Gene G.

>

> Two easy ones...Richmond VA and Pinellas County FL

>

> Dudley

>

> RE: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM' I would also e

> successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS

> experts around the country as some of the best systems going...

>

> Excuse me; please provide concrete examples of this?? I am not aware of any

> Public Utility or SSM systems for that matter operating successfully any

> where in the US.

>

> Jim<

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/14/06 1:02:33 AM, THE DUDMAN writes:

> If we want to talk financially, both of these systems are financially

> solvent and the Pinellas system actually provides funds for both the transport

> function and a large percentage of the first responder function. 

>

What's your evidence for this conclusion? You have none.

> Both of these systems provide a high level of patient care at levels most

> municipal systems can only dream of, both in aggressive, well monitored and

> reviewed patient interaction and care as well as response time reliability in

> both emergency and non-emergency performance.  

>

Again, what's your evidence? Anecdotal evidence? Who has monitored the

patient care and determined that a high level of care is given? What's the

criteria you're using? Where's the research? There isn't any, is there?

This is your opinion, nothing more.

I have my biases and you have yours, and my reaction to your statements about

these two systems is that you're just stating your biases. Again, where's

the BEEF? Give me some evidence. Conclusions are a dime a dozen.

>  

>  

> What is your definition Gene? 

>

What are YOUR definitions? I'm asking what you mean by a successful system.

You tell me what you mean by that. And tell me how you arrived at your

conclusions.

> If you are curious about either of these systems you can contact me off

> list and I will give you names and numbers of who to call to get the info you

> seek.

>

I know who to call about the Pinellas system, and I know in advance the pap I

would receive. I wouldn't believe anything that anybody from that system,

from Jack Stout to Tony Myers on down said. They are good at spreading

propaganda. They are EMS politicians, and very good ones. But what they say

has

little to do with the truth.

I'm interested in patient oriented systems, but I'm more interested in

employee oriented sytems, because unless we are soon able to develop some

employee

oriented systems, there won't be any patient oriented systems left.

I have been to Florida, and I haven't found anything there that would make me

want to go back. I couldn't care less about Disney or any of the other

crapola that Orlando offers, and I have been to Busch Gardens once, and that was

enough.

I want some hard evidence that supports your conclusions that these systems

are so good. I doubt that you can supply it. But I'll read it if you supply

it, and I'll fairly evaluate it. It is not my desire to spend any time

gathering evidence about the workings of any system. You have stated that

these

systems are better than Chocolate Fudge, so prove it.

You cannot, because the evidence is not there. And even if it is, you don't

have it in hand.

GG.

>  

> You want to see two well run, efficient, and patient oriented

> systems...these two would be a couple of the first ones I would suggest you go

visit. 

> While in FL you can go to Disney and then head up to Busch Gardens in VA

before

> you spend a day or two at the Richmond Ambulance Authority.

>  

> Dudley

>

>  

> RE: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM' I would also e

> successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS

> experts around the country as some of the best systems going...

>

> Excuse me; please provide concrete examples of this?? I am not aware of any

> Public Utility or SSM systems for that matter operating successfully any

> where in the US.

>

> Jim<

>

>

[Guest guest]

Two easy ones...Richmond VA and Pinellas County FL

Dudley

RE: Another element in the HR puzzler

I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM's are operating

successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS

experts around the country as some of the best systems going...

Excuse me; please provide concrete examples of this?? I am not aware of any

Public Utility or SSM systems for that matter operating successfully any

where in the US.

Jim<

[Guest guest]

If we want to talk financially, both of these systems are financially solvent

and the Pinellas system actually provides funds for both the transport function

and a large percentage of the first responder function. Both of these systems

provide a high level of patient care at levels most municipal systems can only

dream of, both in aggressive, well monitored and reviewed patient interaction

and care as well as response time reliability in both emergency and

non-emergency performance.

What is your definition Gene? If you are curious about either of these systems

you can contact me off list and I will give you names and numbers of who to call

to get the info you seek.

You want to see two well run, efficient, and patient oriented systems...these

two would be a couple of the first ones I would suggest you go visit. While in

FL you can go to Disney and then head up to Busch Gardens in VA before you spend

a day or two at the Richmond Ambulance Authority.

Dudley

RE: Another element in the HR puzzler

I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM' I would also e

successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS

experts around the country as some of the best systems going...

Excuse me; please provide concrete examples of this?? I am not aware of any

Public Utility or SSM systems for that matter operating successfully any

where in the US.

Jim<

[Guest guest]

I surely didn't mean to imply anything but that EMSA is an operation that is

progressive. I think you may have gotten me mixed up with the folks who were

speaking against that statement. I am intimately aware of EMSA, have a few

friends and former co-workers who work there, and was on my way there in 1992 as

an employee myself prior to landing in another location.

I wish y'all all the luck...BTW, let the statements on here about systems such

as yours wash off your back...continue doing the work you do everyday.

Stay safe,

Dudley

Re: Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

Interesting MRDUDMAN, that you know so much about EMSA

in OKC/Tulsa. But to say that we are not a major metro

EMS system that is progressive would be as very

foolish statement. I hope that you did not intend to

include all the services you used in your statement.

Last year EMSA was ranked number 3 and 4(OKC/Tulsa) in

the nation in cardiac arrest saves, slightly below

Boston EMS and of course Seattle. Maybe you should

look a little deeper into things. Obviously you

researched enough about PUMs to find out about EMSA,

try looking a little bit more into things other than

what you want to use for your argument...

--- " E. Tate " wrote:

> *Sorry if this duplicates, I send a copy well over

> an hour ago and

> my message never posted to the list*

>

>

> Dudley,

>

> If you were answering Lee's question of, " …I am not

> aware of any

> municipal EMS agency that uses SSM…. " , I have to

> inject that most of

> the service areas you named are not Municipal EMS

> Agencies.

>

> Fort Worth is a Public Utility model. Tyler, Waco,

> and Pasadena are

> all East Texas Medical Center EMS, a Private

> Company. Oklahoma

> City / Tulsa is a PUM operated under the name

> Emergency Medical

> Services Authority (EMSA) and is contracted with

> Paramedics Plus (a

> company owned by ETMC-EMS).

>

> I know nothing about San Diego, Reno, or Richmond.

>

> If you were just naming companies, forgive my

> intrusion.

>

> What " major changes " should we expect? I'd like to

> know more.

>

>

> Tater

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Gene,

> > >

> > > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay

> and this would

> be easy

> > > picking for a good HR attorney:

> > >

> >

> > If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks

> in parking lots

> everywhere,

> > idling with 4 firefighters inside?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

>

__________________________________________________________

> > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video

> search, pictures,

> email and

> > IM. All on demand. Always Free.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

ATCEMS does in fact do SSM. They have told units over the radio to " hold up

at the hospital " and post there until other units clear, rather than

allowing them to fill in at stations .5 to 1 mile away until other units

clear.

ATCEMS may not advertise it, but they are beginning to use posted SSM.

Mike

>

> There is a huge difference between SSM and fill-in or move ups. Again,

> SAFD

> and ATCEMS do not do SSM, the rest you mention are private agencies (PUM

> was

> created by the same idiot that created SSM). Before you make assertions

> about the level of care provided in areas you are not familiar with I

> would

> probably do some research prior to opening my mouth or listening to the

> rumor mill.

>

>

> Lee

>

> Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN@... <THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

<THEDUDMAN@...<THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > Gene,

> >

> > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> > picking for a good HR attorney:

> >

>

> If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots

> everywhere,

> idling with 4 firefighters inside?

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

ATCEMS also posts units at intersections, in addition to hospitals, depending on

call volume and unit availability.

-Wes

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN@... <THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

<THEDUDMAN@...<THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > Gene,

> >

> > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> > picking for a good HR attorney:

> >

>

> If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots

> everywhere,

> idling with 4 firefighters inside?

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dudley

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN@... <THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

<THEDUDMAN@...<THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > Gene,

> >

> > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> > picking for a good HR attorney:

> >

>

> If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots

> everywhere,

> idling with 4 firefighters inside?

>

> Mike

>

>