Another element in the HR puzzler

[Guest guest]

After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer and the

company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the problem.

Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is a system

status management company, for being responsible for the employee's weight gain

by, among other things, (1) providing a workplace that denies the employee the

opportunity to eat properly, (2) forces the employee to purchase unhealthy

foods to eat, (3) prevents eating at regular times, (4) prevents the employee

from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty, (5) disrupts the

employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, " (6) prevents the

employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination and defecation

when needed, (7) caused the employee to develop clinical depression, and (8)

inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to provide a safe

and stable workplace.

It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

Gene,

Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

picking for a good HR attorney:

1. We do not prevent our employees from eating healthy. As a matter of

fact, our employees have designed our posting plan and they have

strategically placed posts near areas where there is ample opportunity

for food...good or bad.

2. We do not control nor prevent what our employees eat...healthy or

unhealthy (BTW, last time I ate at the FD in the heavenly

station....more grease, fat, and batter than you usually see at the

County Fair). The choices are there...Also, we have ample provisions

for our employees to be able to bring their own food so they could

control their diet to their hearts desire if they so choose. Also, one

more...we have provided nutritional advice and a dietician at CE's and

company functions to help our employees to have a healthy life style

both on and off work.

3. This is a problem with emergency services...no matter station,

squad car or " SSM " you eat when the calls are not occurring. Again,

food with you or choosing to eat when you can...helps this issue.

4. You want my real answer to this or the mean " SSM " guy answer?

Real...geesh...give me a break...you can't force exercise...minimum or

not... " Evil SSM Guy " answer... " All them there calls...theys exercising

on them ain't they???? "

5. I currently have a static post SSM system (That means stations) and

my employees sit for longer periods of time there in the ole Lazy-Boys

than anyone would in the front seat of an ambulance...

6. See #3. You go when you gotta go and AS SOON as you gotta go...do

you permit your crews to go to the bathroom at the station after the

tones have dropped?

7. I would truly need to see the cause and effect relationship

here...and if so...why has there not been a report to the supervisor so

that our EAP and work comp can assist?

8. Safe and stable has nothing to do with being posted and not setting

in a station. It has everything to do with management and operations.

Posting systems are no less safe or stable than station systems...never

in 10 years of posting in one of the busiest systems in the country did

I ever work a shooting in front of my ambulance...but twice while doing

paramedic rotations with HFD I did...on the ramp of the station...seems

that is a little less safe and unstable...

Nice try...see if he meets the BFOQ's on the job description...if no,

either send him on his way for inability to perform the job or send him

to EAP to see if he can come back in some reasonable time and try it

again....

Dudley " Evil SSM Guy " Wait

Another element in the HR puzzler

After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer and the

company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the

problem.

Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is a

system

status management company, for being responsible for the employee's

weight gain

by, among other things, (1) providing a workplace that denies the

employee the

opportunity to eat properly, (2) forces the employee to purchase

unhealthy

foods to eat, (3) prevents eating at regular times, (4) prevents the

employee

from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty, (5) disrupts

the

employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, " (6)

prevents the

employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination and

defecation

when needed, (7) caused the employee to develop clinical depression,

and (8)

inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to provide

a safe

and stable workplace.

It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Could it be because the public sector has an adequate amount of resources

because it is not focused on profit thus not having to " guess where the next

call is likely to be " ?

Lee

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

When does personal responsiblity come into play? Is the employee totally

faultless in his becoming a lard ass? This is similiar to spilling hot coffee

in your lap and suing the resteraunt. I gained weight after I left a SSM EMS and

it was of my own doing.

Ken

wegandy1938@... wrote:

After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer and the

company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the problem.

Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is a system

status management company, for being responsible for the employee's weight gain

by, among other things, (1) providing a workplace that denies the employee the

opportunity to eat properly, (2) forces the employee to purchase unhealthy

foods to eat, (3) prevents eating at regular times, (4) prevents the employee

from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty, (5) disrupts the

employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, " (6) prevents the

employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination and defecation

when needed, (7) caused the employee to develop clinical depression, and (8)

inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to provide a safe

and stable workplace.

It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

Amen! When does personal responsibility come into play? If gaining

wieght due to your employment can be an actual viable lawsuit and

one you can win then I'm suing too! I weighed 120 lbs at 5'7 " when I

got into EMS, I weigh 180 lbs now almost 10 yrs later. Did working

EMS help...No probably not BUT did my lack of good choices and lack

of use of a gym come into play. YES! Probably more than my working

EMS. I have started to force myself to work out due to now working

in a desert environment behind a desk as a clinic medic who doubles

as an ambulance medic. Personal responsibility? LOL take a look at

our patients...no one ever takes the blame for their own mistakes

these days. Doesn't make it right though.

But that's just my two cents worth on the subject.

> After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer

and the

> company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the

problem.

>

> Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is

a system

> status management company, for being responsible for the

employee's weight gain

> by, among other things, (1) providing a workplace that denies the

employee the

> opportunity to eat properly, (2) forces the employee to purchase

unhealthy

> foods to eat, (3) prevents eating at regular times, (4) prevents

the employee

> from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty, (5)

disrupts the

> employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, " (6)

prevents the

> employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination

and defecation

> when needed, (7) caused the employee to develop clinical

depression, and (8)

> inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to

provide a safe

> and stable workplace.

>

> It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

>

> Gene G.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gene, and those following this:

I worked in a busy SSM for over 5 years, and during that time went from

just over 225 to close to 300lbs. Now, that being said, I would have a hard time

not purjuring myself on the stand trying to win this case. I've put some

thoughts on each of your points below.

wegandy1938@... wrote:

After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer and the

company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the problem.

Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is a system

status management company, for being responsible for the employee's weight gain

by, among other things,

(1) providing a workplace that denies the employee the

opportunity to eat properly,

(2) forces the employee to purchase unhealthy

foods to eat,

(3) prevents eating at regular times,

I'm going to bundle these three together. There was nothing that prevented me

from going to the grocery store the day prior to, or of my shift. Even in the

smallest of mini-mods, there is ample room for a small cooler behind, or beside

the seats in the cab. At 250+ and especially at 500, we all know that you should

be eating several small meals throughout the day. In between calls, while at

post, as long as you dont waste too much time socializing, there really is ample

time for a sandwich, or a piece of fruit or two. Having the ability to do these,

and actually doing them is a matter of choice, that the individual has to make.

(4) prevents the employee

from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty,

I worked with an individual frequently who, as soon as we were at post, was

out of the truck, and going for a brisk walk, even if it was a few hot-laps

around the unit. Again, thats an available option. Unfortunately, most of us

choose to lean the seat back, and try to catch a few minutes of sleep. Another

flaw in this is that there are hundreds of careers out there that do not allow

employees to exercise properly on the clock.

(5) disrupts the

employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, "

Unless you're with a hardline dictatorship organization, I cant imagine a

company having a policy preventing you from at least getting out and stretching

your legs while at post.

(6) prevents the

employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination and defecation

when needed

The average big city SSM organization usually wants an hour turn around time

from dispatch to available. If transporting, the hospital has a restroom, and if

you are at post, there was usually a place in the post area to go. Now, I have

had a few occasions where my eyeballs were floating, but I haven't noticed any

long term issues.

(7) caused the employee to develop clinical depression, and

Depression happens, but it's up to the individual to find an outlet, through

talking with peers, or through other recommended methods, such as hobbies,

and/or excersise. There was more than one occasion where, while working 6 12's a

week, I hit burnout, and did not want to go back to work. This, to me, is a form

of depression, and I treated it by taking a few days off. Recognition is the

key, and the company I worked also had a number that employees could call to

talk with someone if they felt it warranted.

(8) inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to provide a

safe

and stable workplace.

I'll buy this one, sitting in a truck full of meds in a bad part of town at 3

in the morning is not always safe, but, I dont feel it's the companies sole

responsibility to alleviate my stress.

It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

These are all a matter of choice, as I see it, and I must admit, most of the

time I chose the nap, the fast food, and the bigger pant size. However, I would

never blame it on the company. The medic depicted here, in my opinion, is

looking for a scapegoat, and if he's willing to try and push the responsibility

of his health off on the company, and not bear it himself, whose he going to try

and blame when a call goes bad, his partner? No thanks, I'd rather not be on the

same truck with this guy.

Just my thoughts,

Jeff

[Guest guest]

SSM was never meant for the fire service...because the fire service responds to

a multitude of different requests with different apparatus...no matter what

someone needs when they call EMS...they get an ambulance....the don't get a

Cardiac Ambulance or a CVA Ambulance or an OB/GYN Ambulance...just an ambulance.

Dudley

PS: Mike, surely you can come up with a better arguement than why doesn't the

big red trucks do it.... if stations were such a great idea...why don't cops

have them and respond from there?

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

70-80% of the activities of FD's that provide EMS transports are EMS not

Fire or other stuff. I find it interesting that in the Dallas area for

example the FD based EMS system runs well over 200,000 calls per year with

no SSM. In fact, I am not aware of any municipal EMS agency that uses SSM,

wonder why that is?

Lee

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Don't fire departments do station " move-ups " ? I know Arlington does, so in

effect they DO SSM.

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT) <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com <THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT)

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com> wrote:

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

I know safd/ems; austin-travis county; Ft. Worth in Texas...plus probably tyler,

waco and pasadena. Out of this state, OKC, Tulsa, San Diego, Reno, Richmond VA.

I would watch closely too because some of these may be making major changes...

Now, before you all jump on me, I will continue to argue that ALL EMS systems

use SSM...but for those who use the term incorrectly, that is why I listed just

these locations who use units outside the 24 hour shift and moves units to

" posts " to cover call demand.

Lastly, if we want to look at major metropolitan EMS systems I would also argue

that the majority of them would not be considered the most advanced, progressive

EMS agencies anyway...

Gene, sorry for turning this into a SSM topic...my bad.

Dudley

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

There is a huge difference between SSM and fill-in or move ups. Again, SAFD

and ATCEMS do not do SSM, the rest you mention are private agencies (PUM was

created by the same idiot that created SSM). Before you make assertions

about the level of care provided in areas you are not familiar with I would

probably do some research prior to opening my mouth or listening to the

rumor mill.

Lee

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

how many hours does said fat ass employee work a week?

i know alot of medics that sit on their asses all shift but are in excellent

shape because they exercise on their own time!!!!!!

said fatass could do the same, the company dosent have to provide exercise.

Another element in the HR puzzler

After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer and the

company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the problem.

Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is a system

status management company, for being responsible for the employee's weight

gain

by, among other things, (1) providing a workplace that denies the employee the

opportunity to eat properly, (2) forces the employee to purchase unhealthy

foods to eat, (3) prevents eating at regular times, (4) prevents the employee

from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty, (5) disrupts the

employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, " (6) prevents the

employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination and

defecation

when needed, (7) caused the employee to develop clinical depression, and (8)

inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to provide a safe

and stable workplace.

It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

Dudley,

If you were answering Lee's question of, " …I am not aware of any municipal EMS

agency that uses SSM…. " , I have to inject that most of the service areas you

named are not Municipal EMS Agencies.

Fort Worth is a Public Utility model. Tyler, Waco, and Pasadena are all East

Texas Medical Center EMS, a Private Company. Oklahoma City / Tulsa is a PUM

operated under the name Emergency Medical Services Authority (EMSA) and is

contracted with Paramedics Plus (a company owned by ETMC-EMS).

I know nothing about San Diego, Reno, or Richmond.

If you were just naming companies, forgive my intrusion.

What “major changes” should we expect? I’d like to know more.

Tater

THEDUDMAN@... wrote:

I know safd/ems; austin-travis county; Ft. Worth in Texas...plus

probably tyler, waco and pasadena. Out of this state, OKC, Tulsa, San Diego,

Reno, Richmond VA.

I would watch closely too because some of these may be making major changes...

Now, before you all jump on me, I will continue to argue that ALL EMS systems

use SSM...but for those who use the term incorrectly, that is why I listed just

these locations who use units outside the 24 hour shift and moves units to

" posts " to cover call demand.

Lastly, if we want to look at major metropolitan EMS systems I would also argue

that the majority of them would not be considered the most advanced, progressive

EMS agencies anyway...

Gene, sorry for turning this into a SSM topic...my bad.

Dudley

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

*Sorry if this duplicates, I send a copy well over an hour ago and

my message never posted to the list*

Dudley,

If you were answering Lee's question of, " …I am not aware of any

municipal EMS agency that uses SSM…. " , I have to inject that most of

the service areas you named are not Municipal EMS Agencies.

Fort Worth is a Public Utility model. Tyler, Waco, and Pasadena are

all East Texas Medical Center EMS, a Private Company. Oklahoma

City / Tulsa is a PUM operated under the name Emergency Medical

Services Authority (EMSA) and is contracted with Paramedics Plus (a

company owned by ETMC-EMS).

I know nothing about San Diego, Reno, or Richmond.

If you were just naming companies, forgive my intrusion.

What " major changes " should we expect? I'd like to know more.

Tater

> >

> > Gene,

> >

> > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would

be easy

> > picking for a good HR attorney:

> >

>

> If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots

everywhere,

> idling with 4 firefighters inside?

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

Reno and Richmond are also PUM's, San Diego is unique - a fire dept

based PUM is the best way that I would describe it.

However there are a few municipal systems that use SSM type

characteristics (mostly central station dynamic posting or posting after

crew change in smaller stations) but I don't know of any that use the

full 20 week system.

They are: New Orleans, Denver, Baton Rouge, Gaston County (NC), and

Montreal.

I would also be interested in hearing about these " major changes " .

AJL

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of E. Tate

Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:58 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

*Sorry if this duplicates, I send a copy well over an hour ago and

my message never posted to the list*

Dudley,

If you were answering Lee's question of, " ...I am not aware of any

municipal EMS agency that uses SSM.... " , I have to inject that most of

the service areas you named are not Municipal EMS Agencies.

Fort Worth is a Public Utility model. Tyler, Waco, and Pasadena are

all East Texas Medical Center EMS, a Private Company. Oklahoma

City / Tulsa is a PUM operated under the name Emergency Medical

Services Authority (EMSA) and is contracted with Paramedics Plus (a

company owned by ETMC-EMS).

I know nothing about San Diego, Reno, or Richmond.

If you were just naming companies, forgive my intrusion.

What " major changes " should we expect? I'd like to know more.

Tater

> >

> > Gene,

> >

> > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would

be easy

> > picking for a good HR attorney:

> >

>

> If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots

everywhere,

> idling with 4 firefighters inside?

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting MRDUDMAN, that you know so much about EMSA

in OKC/Tulsa. But to say that we are not a major metro

EMS system that is progressive would be as very

foolish statement. I hope that you did not intend to

include all the services you used in your statement.

Last year EMSA was ranked number 3 and 4(OKC/Tulsa) in

the nation in cardiac arrest saves, slightly below

Boston EMS and of course Seattle. Maybe you should

look a little deeper into things. Obviously you

researched enough about PUMs to find out about EMSA,

try looking a little bit more into things other than

what you want to use for your argument...

--- " E. Tate " wrote:

> *Sorry if this duplicates, I send a copy well over

> an hour ago and

> my message never posted to the list*

>

>

> Dudley,

>

> If you were answering Lee's question of, " …I am not

> aware of any

> municipal EMS agency that uses SSM…. " , I have to

> inject that most of

> the service areas you named are not Municipal EMS

> Agencies.

>

> Fort Worth is a Public Utility model. Tyler, Waco,

> and Pasadena are

> all East Texas Medical Center EMS, a Private

> Company. Oklahoma

> City / Tulsa is a PUM operated under the name

> Emergency Medical

> Services Authority (EMSA) and is contracted with

> Paramedics Plus (a

> company owned by ETMC-EMS).

>

> I know nothing about San Diego, Reno, or Richmond.

>

> If you were just naming companies, forgive my

> intrusion.

>

> What " major changes " should we expect? I'd like to

> know more.

>

>

> Tater

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Gene,

> > >

> > > Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay

> and this would

> be easy

> > > picking for a good HR attorney:

> > >

> >

> > If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks

> in parking lots

> everywhere,

> > idling with 4 firefighters inside?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

>

__________________________________________________________

> > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video

> search, pictures,

> email and

> > IM. All on demand. Always Free.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I have a solution, get another job, quit eating your weight in cheese burgers,

get regular excercise during your off duty time. If nothing else quit and get

another job.

wegandy1938@... wrote:

After some talks back and forth between the employee's lawyer and the

company's lawyer, there has been no progress in resolution of the problem.

Now, the employee's lawyer threatens to sue the company, which is a system

status management company, for being responsible for the employee's weight gain

by, among other things, (1) providing a workplace that denies the employee the

opportunity to eat properly, (2) forces the employee to purchase unhealthy

foods to eat, (3) prevents eating at regular times, (4) prevents the employee

from getting a minimum amount of exercise while on duty, (5) disrupts the

employee's circulation through prolonged sitting at " posts, " (6) prevents the

employee from exercising normal body functions such as urination and defecation

when needed, (7) caused the employee to develop clinical depression, and (8)

inflicted unreasonable stress upon the employee by failing to provide a safe

and stable workplace.

It looks like a federal lawsuit is eminent. Plan your defense.

Gene G.

[Guest guest]

TATER,

You are going to offend Jack Stout by not including KC Mo in the SSM bunch

MAST used to run on the KS and MO side but KC KS fire took it back for that side

of the state line over a year ago. I am not sure who the contrated staff is at

this point. I am thinking that it is still EPI but i may be wrong.

Mike

" E. Tate " wrote:

Dudley,

If you were answering Lee's question of, " …I am not aware of any municipal EMS

agency that uses SSM…. " , I have to inject that most of the service areas you

named are not Municipal EMS Agencies.

Fort Worth is a Public Utility model. Tyler, Waco, and Pasadena are all East

Texas Medical Center EMS, a Private Company. Oklahoma City / Tulsa is a PUM

operated under the name Emergency Medical Services Authority (EMSA) and is

contracted with Paramedics Plus (a company owned by ETMC-EMS).

I know nothing about San Diego, Reno, or Richmond.

If you were just naming companies, forgive my intrusion.

What “major changes” should we expect? I’d like to know more.

Tater

THEDUDMAN@... wrote:

I know safd/ems; austin-travis county; Ft. Worth in Texas...plus probably tyler,

waco and pasadena. Out of this state, OKC, Tulsa, San Diego, Reno, Richmond VA.

I would watch closely too because some of these may be making major changes...

Now, before you all jump on me, I will continue to argue that ALL EMS systems

use SSM...but for those who use the term incorrectly, that is why I listed just

these locations who use units outside the 24 hour shift and moves units to

" posts " to cover call demand.

Lastly, if we want to look at major metropolitan EMS systems I would also argue

that the majority of them would not be considered the most advanced, progressive

EMS agencies anyway...

Gene, sorry for turning this into a SSM topic...my bad.

Dudley

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

No it is not the same as SSM.

Lee

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT) <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com <THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT)

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com> wrote:

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Lee,

Please...SSM does not mean units sitting on street corners...it is System Status

Management...the method used to staff EMS vehicles to properly respond to

expected demand. It has three basic models:

1. Static: All assets in fixed stations

2. Flexible: All assets in flexible locations (posts)

3. Combination: A combination of fixed stations and flexible locations

(posts).

So, to answer Mr. 's question...yes...it could meet the definition of

SSM...but SSM is usually a term reserved for ambulance resources. Many

municipal systems move units to street corner posts or other static posts when

some or all ambulances are tied up on calls. Despite the " Anti-SSM " folks

attempts...this is a model of SSM that was designed and described by the evil

one (Jack Stout).

Also, municipal systems that bring in extra ambulances at varying times of the

day to meet demand expectations are practicing SSM as well...even if they put

those 6, 8, or 10 hour trucks in static posts (stations).

Saying that moving from station to station on " move-ups " is not SSM is like

saying a non-ST segment elevation MI is not an Acute Coronary Syndrome....ACS

covers both types of MI's....just like SSM covers all three types of deployment

models.

Dudley

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT) <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com <THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT)

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com> wrote:

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Lee,

I am intimately familiar with SAFD/EMS as we border their district and respond

to some calls along with them...Chief Guerra and his staff are great folks doing

a heck of a job...and they do practice SSM techniques...BTW, in EMS...SSM

includes move-ups or post moves or station moves...and the rest I mentioned

(especially the PUM's) are governmental agencies....

BTW, I have a new municipal agency to add to the SSM field...FDNY/EMS...

http://www.nydailynews.com/06-04-2006/news/local/story/423588p-357350c.html

Does this count as research?

I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM's are operating

successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS experts

around the country as some of the best systems going...

Don't listen to texasems-l propaganda...go take a look for yourself.

BTW, the mention of KC's MAST system is another good one...

Enjoy,

Dudley " big mouthed rumor monger " Wait

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Like many SSM advocates, Dudley is splitting rhetorical hairs. SSM is a

very detailed deployment model detailed by Stout in several issues of JEMS.

It is not simply moving assets. I'll pull the cite when I get back to the

States. In terms of PUMs, none are doing great. MAST (KC) had the PUM take

over service after they were nearly bankrupt, Fort Worth still has

compliance and turnover issues, EMSA is doing pretty well with poor pay.

Reno is doing OK. Many cities would like to get rid of the PUMs but cannot

because of the legalese. FDNY is not going to SSM based on what I was told.

For a good time, see Mike Taigman and I debate SSM at the Pinnacle

conference in Tampa. I'll feel like I will be preaching evolution at a

Pentecostal convention but it should be fun.

BEB

_____

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:55 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

Lee,

I am intimately familiar with SAFD/EMS as we border their district and

respond to some calls along with them...Chief Guerra and his staff are great

folks doing a heck of a job...and they do practice SSM techniques...BTW, in

EMS...SSM includes move-ups or post moves or station moves...and the rest I

mentioned (especially the PUM's) are governmental agencies....

BTW, I have a new municipal agency to add to the SSM field...FDNY/EMS...

http://www.nydailyn

<http://www.nydailynews.com/06-04-2006/news/local/story/423588p-357350c.html

> ews.com/06-04-2006/news/local/story/423588p-357350c.html

Does this count as research?

I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM's are operating

successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS

experts around the country as some of the best systems going...

Don't listen to texasems-l propaganda...go take a look for yourself.

BTW, the mention of KC's MAST system is another good one...

Enjoy,

Dudley " big mouthed rumor monger " Wait

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT) <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com <THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT)

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com> wrote:

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

A quote take from the Richmond Ambulance Authority's website…..“The key to SSM

is the precise analysis of historical data. At regular intervals, members of the

Authority use a technologically-advanced, computer-aided system to examine the

previous 20 weeks worth of call data generating a temporal demand analysis. This

report predicts, with more than 95 percent accuracy, exactly where and when

calls will come in.”

(TONES) Need units to respond to a future structure fire! 6250 Troup Highway,

Rear of the Steer BBQ, the computer predicts a structure fire within the next 10

minutes. Attention Engine 8, Engine 7, Engine 9, Ladder 2, DC1, and Safety 2.

Units responding acknowledge………..

Fire service uses nothing like SSM in any way, form or fashion. It doesn’t

take a brain surgeon or any highly skilled individual, much less some cracker

“Jack” computer model to tell fire officers that if 4 stations in the same area

of town are out on a structure fire that some other station needs to “move-up”

to fill in the gap. Heck I’m just a dumb ‘ol firefighter and I am usually half

way to the Engine before my captain says we need to move. From time to time my

rookie beats me to the Engine. Not SSM, just more than 2 brain cells that

operate together.

Coming soon! Tater’s SSM for Dummies. Synopsis: Hol n cuverage area

baaaaad. C hol? Send Lurch & Ogg 2 fill hol. Mak response tim better. Make

people happy. When truck go bak n service & hol no longer present, let Lurch &

Ogg return 2 station 2 debrief and relax. That way Lurch & Ogg think str8ter &

don’t give wrong shot 2 patient, cause patient 2 die. This reduce law suit and

burn ‘em out. Lurch & Ogg 2 old 2 go 2 work at Rear of Steer. Lurch & Ogg gud

medics.

If this helps your service to increase care, profit, or anything eles positive

(by any person’s standard) Please send $19.95 to:

Tater - EMS Guru

123 W. Main

Whitehouse, Texas 00000

Tater

THEDUDMAN@... wrote:

Lee,

Please...SSM does not mean units sitting on street corners...it is System Status

Management...the method used to staff EMS vehicles to properly respond to

expected demand. It has three basic models:

1. Static: All assets in fixed stations

2. Flexible: All assets in flexible locations (posts)

3. Combination: A combination of fixed stations and flexible locations (posts).

So, to answer Mr. 's question...yes...it could meet the definition of

SSM...but SSM is usually a term reserved for ambulance resources. Many municipal

systems move units to street corner posts or other static posts when some or all

ambulances are tied up on calls. Despite the " Anti-SSM " folks attempts...this is

a model of SSM that was designed and described by the evil one (Jack Stout).

Also, municipal systems that bring in extra ambulances at varying times of the

day to meet demand expectations are practicing SSM as well...even if they put

those 6, 8, or 10 hour trucks in static posts (stations).

Saying that moving from station to station on " move-ups " is not SSM is like

saying a non-ST segment elevation MI is not an Acute Coronary Syndrome....ACS

covers both types of MI's....just like SSM covers all three types of deployment

models.

Dudley

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

On 6/11/06, THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT) <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com <THEDUDMAN (AT) aol (DOT)

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com> com> wrote:

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike

[Guest guest]

What did that link have to do with SSM? I guess I missed it?

Tater

THEDUDMAN@... wrote:

Lee,

I am intimately familiar with SAFD/EMS as we border their district and respond

to some calls along with them...Chief Guerra and his staff are great folks doing

a heck of a job...and they do practice SSM techniques...BTW, in EMS...SSM

includes move-ups or post moves or station moves...and the rest I mentioned

(especially the PUM's) are governmental agencies....

BTW, I have a new municipal agency to add to the SSM field...FDNY/EMS...

http://www.nydailynews.com/06-04-2006/news/local/story/423588p-357350c.html

Does this count as research?

I would also encourage you to take your own advice...PUM's are operating

successfully in many markets in the USofA....and are viewed by many EMS experts

around the country as some of the best systems going...

Don't listen to texasems-l propaganda...go take a look for yourself.

BTW, the mention of KC's MAST system is another good one...

Enjoy,

Dudley " big mouthed rumor monger " Wait

Re: Another element in the HR puzzler

>

> Gene,

>

> Give it up man...SSM done right is here to stay and this would be easy

> picking for a good HR attorney:

>

If SSM is so great, why don't we see fire trucks in parking lots everywhere,

idling with 4 firefighters inside?

Mike