Re: Regular vs. special needs kindergarten

March 14, 2005

-

We sent our first apraxic son to a regular kindergarten class in our local

public school (full day). He had a 1to1 para and an augmentative device. He

received 3x60 speech outside school and 2x30 speech and OT in school. He did

great and will be moving to our local parochial school in September (for 2nd

grade) without a para and 2x60 speech and 1x60 OT outside school.

His younger apraxic brother is transitioning to kindergarten this coming

September. He will be going straight into a regular kindergarten (full day)

without any support in our local parochial school. He will recieve 2x60 speech

and

1x60 OT outstide school.

Good luck on what you decide.

Lynaugh

March 14, 2005

Hi there is so much on this in the archives I'm going to answer

some here in one archive -and another one to someone else's question

with another archive.

In a sentence -each child is entitled to an appropriate education in

the 'least restrictive environment' What does that mean? Just

because a child isn't speaking well doesn't mean he shouldn't be in

the mainstream. Look at hearing impaired children, or better yet -

kids who are visually impaired! Do they put kids in special needs

classes because they were glasses? Also -when you start a child in

a 'special needs kindergarten class' when do you switch them over to

the mainstream? First, second, third grade? Most don't. Most stay

in the special needs or LD, then to TMR and then MR classes. It's a

huge crack too many kids that are speech impaired fall into. More

below:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:12 pm

Subject: Re: reading and apraxia

I agree with Marina that a reading specialist may be best at times,

but not always. Unlike speech therapy -when it comes to reading,

you may not need to spend the money or take the time with any

outside professional help -that is outside the normal classroom

teaching of the mainstream. When you read on you'll find that

unless a reading specialist is knowledgeable about apraxia -a motor

planning disorder -they may or may not be the best option for your

child. Our kids have at times their own way of learning.

Tanner is at and above age level in reading (math/spelling etc) at 8

years old. There are a number of things our kids may do that may not

fall into the norm. For example I've posted recently how Tanner now

that he's reading long pages of text has to pause to swallow -an

obvious pause which I do relate to motor planning the swallowing

with the speech. He's not used to talking as nonstop as he does

when he reads. I also know the more he practices reading -the less

this will be obvious. The more he's reading -the better his speech

has become too.

Another observation...Tanner can read " obedience school " fine with

no hesitation -but may pronounce a word like " an " right before the

words " obedience school " as " Ane " (just an example) Like apraxia -

makes no sense. But just like working on helping them motor plan

with speech -there are strategies that work for reading. Reminding

them of their incredible memory!

This week Tanner was working on knowing the difference between the

there/their/they're. I was explaining the difference between the

theres, tried twice in different ways and there was just a block.

He didn't get it and didn't want to hear anymore. Tanner got very

mad and shouted " I don't understand! " " There! There! There! " " The

same, there! " " I don't understand! " You know what worked for

Tanner? I didn't argue or try again to explain why they are

different. He was right -they did sound the same -so I agreed with

him. I said " You know what Tanner -you are so smart you are

absolutely right. " " There, their and they're all do sound the same

but somebody decided they all mean different things instead of just

coming up with three different words " " Sometimes the English

language makes no sense like you said...but that's where you amazing

memory comes in. " " You don't have to understand it Tanner -just

remember that if it's location it's there and... " etc. I again

explained the difference -but this time I just said - " just

remember " for each there. I then tested him with sentences and one

of the theres and he knew which one was which -the final test had

him write the sentence - " They're going over there to their house "

and he did it! I found myself in situations like this to be

Tanner's best teacher, and computer reading programs are great

teachers too, as well as closed caption -video games, great self

motivators -but also of course credit each wonderful teacher he's

had in school from preschool up now till second grade.

Below is an archive of a bunch of archives on reading:

Re: reading

I agree with Gin on finding reading is helping Tanner with more

complex speech. Not only that -I agree that multisensory is the way

to go -and do not underestimate our children -they may not just make

it -they may excel above " normal " kids if given the chance (and the

belief in them) And for good reason.

My theory is that because our children don't learn to talk like

everyone else -that in contrast to the popular experience that most

speech impaired children will have learning disabilities -if treated

correctly -our kids may actually in many ways be even better

students than most. As a toy inventor -I'm aware of the basics of

what most kids like -or are like.

There are a few reasons I feel this way -don't have time to go into

all of them now. But for one -most of us have found our children

have these die hard memories! Not a normal memory for a " normal "

child -most kids you can get to forget a point by bringing up

something else that interests them -not many of the children in this

group! (of course you can never say " always " -just more often than

not. Just like the trouble blowing the nose thing that I first

brought up -this is yet another observation you will not read about

in books...yet) When Tanner learns his spelling words -he not only

knows how to spell even hard words -he tells me the word on the list

(of ten each week) and then spells it -like his memory is a picture

he can just look at.

Perhaps -due to using a different pathway and developing such

pathway -they have an edge we don't yet understand. I posted awhile

back that I found Tanner does best for the day if I have him read a

few pages each morning before school -like a warm up. He may start

out sounding each word -then once he is one a roll -he's in the

groove. Just like an apraxic child with words -with reading it's

strange too. Most kids will just read 3 letter words after awhile.

Tanner will whiz through difficult words at times like oxygen -and

have to sound out a word like " pull " Not every time -but enough to

make me take notice. As always -apraxia doesn't make sense in

the " norm " -so don't look at our kids and compare. And if you do -

notice just as well how they excel over others.

I again believe it most important to expose our children to

multisensory ways of learning, and keeping their self esteem high.

This means not exposing these kids to verbal based IQ or receptive

language testing!

Here are some notes on Tanner from an archived message. (again

Tanner is a straight A student in a mainstreamed accelerated

academics first grade class. He is social, has lots of friends -

does not get teased for the way he talks. Other children understand

he has a (now mild for the most part) speech impairment, (more

severe with more complex thoughts) but that he is very bright -and a

fun kid. Tanner is on the chess club, soccer team, and he is a cub

scout. No more therapy outside of speech -and of course

ProEFA/ProEPA and carnosine/carn-aware (the carnosine/carn-aware we

do on and off -the " magic fish oil " -all the time and don't miss a

day...He's doing that well in school -who knows, maybe it is

the " magic fish oil " . funny update -Tanner's teacher asked where she

could buy the fish oil we use for her own family (and self) after

hearing me talk to some other parents about it who also want to know

what we use. Tanner's doing better than some of their children -and

I told them how it helps me with my memory.)

" Here are some of the ways I help Tanner at home with his school

word. I'm sure some of the following examples will apply to any

child -even those who don't have any learning disabilities or speech

problems. It's just that it's the whole picture. Freeze under

pressure -break down the longer the utterance -responds to

multisensory techniques...etc.

( just off the top and not in any order )

Tanner's first grade class was given a " mad minute " math test where

they were given 2 minutes to answer 29 math questions both

subtraction and addition -stuff ranging from 7 + 7 to 11 - 4.

Tanner is a whiz at math -I believe from the Nintendo games and

other computer games such as that they are educational he's learned

much like that in a fun way. But...the first time he was given the

test he mixed up the subtraction and addition signs which he never

does -and got even some easy math questions wrong. When he came

home I just said to him in a really fun animated way (since this was

the first sign of any problem at all) " Tanner -they time you

because we live in Florida now near the Nickelodeon Studios in

Orlando -and just in case we go on Family Double Dare you are going

to have to answer all these questions fast or we'll all

get " SLIMED! " (I said wrinkling up my nose and laughing) BUT -if

you get them all right we'll win really cool prizes! Either way

it's just for fun! " Well the next day the test was given again to

the class and Tanner not only got 100% but was the first one

finished!

Tanner gets 100% on spelling each week, no matter how difficult the

spelling words are. I found the best way to teach him the words is

to use multisensory fun ways. This is just two of them -I'll write

the letters on his back as he says them for each word...but if he

says the wrong letter I don't write it....play game show where we

take turns being the contestant and game show host -jumping up and

down etc. Either Glenn, Dakota or I are the ones who get the

answers spelled wrong (we change our voices and pretend we are

someone else. We'll sound out the word wrong and spell it wrong. I

try to think of how a speech impaired child will say the word and

spell it that way) and Tanner is always the one that is the

contestant to spell it right. If Tanner is the game show host -one

of us will get it right -but the first one will get it wrong.

Tanner always laughs and has to correct us. For the one that won -

he'll have to say what prize they won. We also do " teacher " where

I'm the student and he teaches me the words -warns me about the

silent letters -etc.

I found that even though Tanner will spell each word right if given

one at a time -if he has to put the words in a sentence -he broke

down and spelled words he knows wrong. Once I told him to think of

each word separate - " think game show " -he spells them right.

When Tanner is reading long more complex words such as for example

last night -circulatory (he's learning about blood cells now) he

needs a cue to break it down. For example on his own last night

when I said " Just break it down Tanner and think of it as four

words " Tanner picked up a Jimmy Neutron Mc's toy and for each

syllable he said -as he said it -he turned the toy's head.

Sometimes his apraxia gets in the way of reading certain words at

first. He'll read the word and say the last sound wrong -or the

middle sound wrong. I'll correct him and point to the missed

letter. He'll repeat the word and hesitate at the letter in

question -visibly trying hard to say it right -but again say it

wrong. We'll go over this a few times until I clap my hands -or

give him some other cue to break it down. Once he says it right -

I'll have him repeat it over and over at least three times. I'll

then say the word about ten times over and over until he says " All

right already! " and then we'll move on. If when we get to the word

again he hesitates -I just have to clap or give a cue and he

says " Oh yeah " and says it right very quickly. Then he just gets it

on his own.

Anyone else? "

Lynn -as far as how do you teach a nonverbal child to read...I would

do all the same as above. You may want to read up on Helen Keller.

My son was schooled in preschool in an oral based school for the

hearing impaired/deaf. You don't have to talk to be able to read.

" I knew then that 'w-a-t-e-r' meant the wonderful cool something

that was

flowing over my hand. That living word awakened my soul, gave it

light, hope,

joy, set it free! "

Helen Keller 1880-1968

American writer and lecturer

http://www.theglassceiling.com/biographies/bio20.htm

=====

March 14, 2005

Hi ,

My son, , will be starting kindergarten this fall. I just spoke to the

special education coordinator and we talk about our options for this fall. We

decided, for , it would be best for him to attend regular kindergarten in

the a.m. and then attend a developmental kindergarten class in the afternoon

where he would receive his necessary speech(120 minutes/week), ot and pt.

already knows all of his letters, numbers, shapes, colors, and can spell and

site read many words, so it wasn't a matter of him not being able to keep up

academic wise...of course it will be hard for him with the writing aspect of

it...his fine motor skills need strengthening/work and that is where our

concerns lie along with his severe verbal apraxia of course. He will continue to

use his Dynamyte AC device which has worked out really well for him in his EC

class (he's actually going to receive a big award in April for his

accomplishment in that area) He will also be able to come home to eat lunch

(which is good because he only eats soft foods at the moment...not chewing yet

due to some oral dysphasia). I am hoping he does well and doesn't feel isolated

by the " regular speaking " kids when he does start. My husband and I just want

for him to be happy and to succeed in every aspect of life. Hope that helps,

. Take care and good luck.

colleen

<skatingmary@...> wrote:

Hello everyone. For those of you that have older children with apraxia, did you

send you child to a specail needs kindergarten or to a regular class? If sent to

a regular class, did your child attend half day or full day? Did your child

receive services in school, out of school or both? Thanks. Have a great week.

March 14, 2005

, My son went to special ed kindergarten and first grade. He

received OT, PT and speech. The class had 15 kids- 1/2 frist grade, 1/2

kind. with a teacher and para. He did GREAT in a small class. Our

regular ed classes have between 25 and 29 kids. He would've been lost.

He will be mainstreamed next year and we are all VERY excited!!

Ilene, mom to , age 6

[ ] Regular vs. special needs kindergarten

Hello everyone. For those of you that have older children with apraxia,

did you send you child to a specail needs kindergarten or to a regular

class? If sent to a regular class, did your child attend half day or

full day? Did your child receive services in school, out of school or

both? Thanks. Have a great week.

March 14, 2005

Does anybody know if it's the same in Canada? Go into special ed and

never come out that is? Also, my son has a maturity delay related to

his apraxia, so he is behind his peers. Shouldn't I consider special

services or special classes for him? I don't want him in there for

life, but don't want him feeling lost and losing self esteem in

regular k either.

What are your thoughts? Thanks. Tina

>

> Hi there is so much on this in the archives I'm going to

answer

> some here in one archive -and another one to someone else's

question

> with another archive.

>

> In a sentence -each child is entitled to an appropriate education

in

> the 'least restrictive environment' What does that mean? Just

> because a child isn't speaking well doesn't mean he shouldn't be

in

> the mainstream. Look at hearing impaired children, or better yet -

> kids who are visually impaired! Do they put kids in special needs

> classes because they were glasses? Also -when you start a child

in

> a 'special needs kindergarten class' when do you switch them over

to

> the mainstream? First, second, third grade? Most don't. Most

stay

> in the special needs or LD, then to TMR and then MR classes. It's

a

> huge crack too many kids that are speech impaired fall into. More

> below:

March 14, 2005

I am a Special Education Advisory Committee member for Ontario. That is not

the case here anyway. I have children with special ed support, which is

reviewed yearly. The review is mandatory and the designation and type of

support the child received can be changed if it is no longer appropriate.

It can also be reviewed by request of the parent anytime after 3months into

the new program. The IEP is supposed to change as required and parents can

contact about that at any time. I know of one child in particular, that was

in special education classes only for all major subjects until grade 6 when

his parent decided he needed to be in a regular class with only support.

This occurred and I just spoke to the mother last week. This boy is in

high school now...all regular classes, doing well, lots of friends. It is

important to know your rights under the Education Act and know your SEAC

reps...they are in place for the child..not the Board and are entirely

neutral. They are mandated by the Minister of Education but not paid for

their position so are not afraid of being fired.

Annemarie

Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of

the people.

- Giordano Bruno

[ ] Re: Regular vs. special needs kindergarten

>

> Does anybody know if it's the same in Canada? Go into special ed and

> never come out that is? Also, my son has a maturity delay related to

> his apraxia, so he is behind his peers. Shouldn't I consider special

> services or special classes for him? I don't want him in there for

> life, but don't want him feeling lost and losing self esteem in

> regular k either.

>

> What are your thoughts? Thanks. Tina

>

> >

> > Hi there is so much on this in the archives I'm going to

> answer

> > some here in one archive -and another one to someone else's

> question

> > with another archive.

> >

> > In a sentence -each child is entitled to an appropriate education

> in

> > the 'least restrictive environment' What does that mean? Just

> > because a child isn't speaking well doesn't mean he shouldn't be

> in

> > the mainstream. Look at hearing impaired children, or better yet -

> > kids who are visually impaired! Do they put kids in special needs

> > classes because they were glasses? Also -when you start a child

> in

> > a 'special needs kindergarten class' when do you switch them over

> to

> > the mainstream? First, second, third grade? Most don't. Most

> stay

> > in the special needs or LD, then to TMR and then MR classes. It's

> a

> > huge crack too many kids that are speech impaired fall into. More

> > below:

>

March 14, 2005

Hi,

We just had our IPP meeting for my son. We are in Alberta, Edmonton.

Apparently you, as a parent has a choice where to put your son. In Edmonton it

so much easier to choose a right school for your child because you are not

tied to an area where you live, you can choose any school that has a right

programming for your child.

Our speech therapist suggested enrolling him in a specialised kindergarten for

children with strictly language learning problems. They have a SP and OT

constantly in a room supervising instruction and helping children.

I am considering enrolling my son in the afternoon program and he will stay in

his daycare with regular kids in the morning kindergarten class. I hope that

it helps him to progress more and be ready for the Grade 1 in the mainstream

program. Academically, he knows letters, numbers, colours, shapes etc, started

reading but his speech is severely delayed (but he started as a bilingual

child).

Apparently I don't know about any cases of going into specialised classes and

out, but I realised that there are " spesialised " classes and special needs

classes which are not the same at all.

Tatiana and Edik, 5 years old.

>===== Original Message From " tvs " <tinavels@...> =====

>Does anybody know if it's the same in Canada? Go into special ed and

>never come out that is? Also, my son has a maturity delay related to

>his apraxia, so he is behind his peers. Shouldn't I consider special

>services or special classes for him? I don't want him in there for

>life, but don't want him feeling lost and losing self esteem in

>regular k either.

>

>What are your thoughts? Thanks. Tina

>

>>

>> Hi there is so much on this in the archives I'm going to

>answer

>> some here in one archive -and another one to someone else's

>question

>> with another archive.

>>

>> In a sentence -each child is entitled to an appropriate education

>in

>> the 'least restrictive environment' What does that mean? Just

>> because a child isn't speaking well doesn't mean he shouldn't be

>in

>> the mainstream. Look at hearing impaired children, or better yet -

>> kids who are visually impaired! Do they put kids in special needs

>> classes because they were glasses? Also -when you start a child

>in

>> a 'special needs kindergarten class' when do you switch them over

>to

>> the mainstream? First, second, third grade? Most don't. Most

>stay

>> in the special needs or LD, then to TMR and then MR classes. It's

>a

>> huge crack too many kids that are speech impaired fall into. More

>> below:

>

March 14, 2005

I am in New Jersey but terrified about this whole thing. We will be

making this decision next week at his IEP. I don't want him to be in spec

ed forever, but at this point I can't see him succeeding in a regular

kindergarten class. If it were just speech, maybe I could see it, but his

processing issues are quite severe, he doesn't retain info like

letters/numbers etc, and he also has a slight maturity delay as well....but

i feel if i decide to go the spec ed route now that I am failing him. I

don't know what the best thing to do is; I hate having to be the one that

makes this decision.

-Lis, Brittany and

t 11:45 AM 3/14/2005, you wrote:

>Does anybody know if it's the same in Canada? Go into special ed and

>never come out that is? Also, my son has a maturity delay related to

>his apraxia, so he is behind his peers. Shouldn't I consider special

>services or special classes for him? I don't want him in there for

>life, but don't want him feeling lost and losing self esteem in

>regular k either.

>

>What are your thoughts? Thanks. Tina

March 14, 2005

At 11:45 AM 3/14/2005, you wrote:

>, My son went to special ed kindergarten and first grade. He

>received OT, PT and speech. The class had 15 kids- 1/2 frist grade, 1/2

>kind. with a teacher and para. He did GREAT in a small class. Our

>regular ed classes have between 25 and 29 kids. He would've been lost.

>He will be mainstreamed next year and we are all VERY excited!!

>

>Ilene, mom to , age 6

Oh thank you so much for posting; this is exactly what i hope will happen

for my son someday.....so happy that did so well!!!!

-Lis, Brittany and

March 14, 2005

Why not just delay kindergarten by one year? That's what we're doing for our

son, who'll start K at age 6. He's in regular preschool now and has really

warmed up to the teacher, so next year he'll continue with her but 3 days per

week instead of 2. His fine motor skills would really handicap him in regular

preschool next year, and his receptive skills are better than his expressive

ones

- though improving all the time thanks to Pro-EFA, TMG, folinic, enzymes,

MB12 shots, other supps - so hopefully a year of more of the same will give him

the jump he needs. We plan to spend next year focusing on OT, and moving

forward with his DAN doc - maybe trying out vision therapy and listening therapy

(depends how far we can stretch our budget). I'm hoping all of this will make a

difference next year. He's made some good friends in Pre-K and, interestingly

enough, several of them are also holding off a year - not so much due to motor

skills/other delays, but just because the parents feel that an extra year of m

aturing will be a plus.

I agree with 's post about some of the potential problems with getting

off the special ed freeway. Just seems like once you jump on, no one is going to

be in a hurry (or especially friendly and helpful) if/when you decide that

it's time to get off.

Good luck!

- 5.1, motor dyspraxia

In a message dated 3/14/2005 2:04:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,

christinerome@... writes:

> feel the same way as you do lis. I hate that i have the end all decision.

> my son is going to special ed for kindergarden and i am very weary about

> it. I don't want him to fall more behind, sometimes in special ed they don't

> push children enough.they rather a compliant child doing easy work then trying

> to challange children and maybe having some behavior come of it.

> iknow my boy is not ready for typical kindergarden but i worry about spec

> ed.

> chris

>

> " E. Adelson " <madelson@...> wrote:

>

> I am in New Jersey but terrified about this whole thing. We will be

> making this decision next week at his IEP. I don't want him to be in spec

> ed forever, but at this point I can't see him succeeding in a regular

> kindergarten class. If it were just speech, maybe I could see it, but his

> processing issues are quite severe, he doesn't retain info like

> letters/numbers etc, and he also has a slight maturity delay as well....but

> i feel if i decide to go the spec ed route now that I am failing him. I

> don't know what the best thing to do is; I hate having to be the one that

> makes this decision.

>

> -Lis, Brittany and

>

March 14, 2005

i feel the same way as you do lis. I hate that i have the end all decision. my

son is going to special ed for kindergarden and i am very weary about it. I

don't want him to fall more behind, sometimes in special ed they don't push

children enough.they rather a compliant child doing easy work then trying to

challange children and maybe having some behavior come of it.

iknow my boy is not ready for typical kindergarden but i worry about spec ed.

chris

" E. Adelson " <madelson@...> wrote: