Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Just seemed too intriguing not to pass along. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Parenting/tb/3098 -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 " Researchers asked participants to commit suicide, then gathered data on CISM effectiveness from those whose attempt(s) failed. " You're a sick man, Wes... <grin> Mike > Just seemed too intriguing not to pass along. > > http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Parenting/tb/3098 > > -Wes > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 In a message dated 17-Apr-06 13:03:24 Central Daylight Time, ExLngHrn@... writes: Just seemed too intriguing not to pass along. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Parenting/tb/3098 -Wes Actually, having read the paper (and I'll go ahead and register to take the 'post test'...), I noticed two things... First, the 'self mutilation' of both the Goth and Punk subcultures might better be classified as 'self decoration'...I've treated Goths, and Punks and Cutters...and most of the Cutters I've treated have been neither Goths nor Punks, but 'nice white' teen girls who had some other stressor in their life that they were trying to make go away.... Most of these girls could not, for what ever reason, express what was wrong with their lives[1]...and many of them that I have seen came from strongly religious backgrounds. Second, most of the kids who do " Go Goth " are already under stress at school, and I suspect, feel more comfortable with other kids who are under similar stress...you might notice that no one popular enough or athletic enough to be a 'BMOC' or " PGOC " [2] ever goes Goth...or punk... Third: from the paper: <block quote> Even after adjusting for other known predictors such as being female, having divorced or separated parents, smoking, drug use, and depression, Goth identification remained the single strongest predictor of self-harm or suicide attempt, the study found. </block quote> What is the ONE factor that they don't mention in their list of adjustments? [3] Fourth: I suspect that we are seeing the Goth world through the filters of an upper middle class Brit attitude...maybe Stephan could assist in picking some more of the details out... ck S. Krin, DO FAAFP [1] Nonconsensual sexual activity...a fair number of the Cutters that I have worked with in the past eventually admitted that they had been subjected to non consensual sexual activity at or from a young age... [2] Big Man On Campus, AKA " JOCK " , Popular Gal On Campus, AKA " Cheerleader " ... [3] See #1 above...many of the popular kids are sexually active, but it is much more 'consensual' than the cutters...or at least as consensual as it can be when it involves a 250 pound football player and a 90 pound cheerleader... ck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Dr. Krin's post notes several factors clincially significant in dealing with " Goth " kids . . . from the epidemiologist's view (reaosnably well acquainted with suicide epi over the past quarter century), there's another concern that has to taken soberly: The commonality that draws kids into the " Goth " typing is alienation; alienation is a manifestation of social angst. Angst is an element of pathos rather than pathology. Just as Dr. Kirn describes cutters as creating a physical " decoration " --not unlike the piercings and tattoos that also express membership among the disaffected--suicidal gestures are the performance art of alienation and angst. You just ain't nobody in that realm if you've never done something to off yourself. This is absolutely *not* to minimize the levels of depression and hopelessness associated with accepted the identity of outcast, nor does it clarify in the least the causal direction (to wit, whether one is alientated becasue one is Goth or Goth because one is alientated). But as Bandura posited a few decades back, social learning involves reciprocal determination . . . in plainer language, this is a spiral not an arrow. The models for social angst have become darker over the years, fueled in aprt by the Oprahization of deviance--look at what parades across the promos for Sally, Oprah, Ricki, and Montel every morning and ask yourself this: If I want deviance as my identity these days, how far have I got to go to reach the second standard deviation to the South? For literary and musical hints, revisit Oliver Stone's film " Natural Born Killers " and/or go to Napster and dig up the Butthole Surfers'classic " Pepper " . This ain't news--except that it's Springtime in the land of Angst, when suicides and acting out actually hit their peaks (no, it's not Christmas or holidays--those have tended to be the valleys). Just yesterday in our area here (the celebrated " Here in the Middle " of McMurtry fame), two kids were busted in a plot to plant explosives in the gymnasium of their semirural high school, take their assistant principal hostage, use the PA to assemble all students in the gym for their purported safety, and blow 'em all into eternity . . . all this, it seems, to commemorate the anniversary of Columbine--and, it would seem, to try to up the ante from that one. To get the drift of that plot, revisit the best black comedy of the 80s, " s " . This may not be fresh, but it's far from simple. R. > > > > > > In a message dated 17-Apr-06 13:03:24 Central Daylight Time, > ExLngHrn@... writes: > > Just seemed too intriguing not to pass along. > > http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Parenting/tb/3098 > > -Wes > > > > > Actually, having read the paper (and I'll go ahead and register to take the > 'post test'...), I noticed two things... > > First, the 'self mutilation' of both the Goth and Punk subcultures might > better be classified as 'self decoration'...I've treated Goths, and Punks and > Cutters...and most of the Cutters I've treated have been neither Goths nor > Punks, but 'nice white' teen girls who had some other stressor in their life that > they were trying to make go away.... > > Most of these girls could not, for what ever reason, express what was wrong > with their lives[1]...and many of them that I have seen came from strongly > religious backgrounds. > > Second, most of the kids who do " Go Goth " are already under stress at > school, and I suspect, feel more comfortable with other kids who are under similar > stress...you might notice that no one popular enough or athletic enough to be > a 'BMOC' or " PGOC " [2] ever goes Goth...or punk... > > Third: from the paper: > > <block quote> > Even after adjusting for other known predictors such as being female, having > divorced or separated parents, smoking, drug use, and depression, Goth > identification remained the single strongest predictor of self- harm or suicide > attempt, the study found. > </block quote> > > What is the ONE factor that they don't mention in their list of adjustments? > [3] > > Fourth: I suspect that we are seeing the Goth world through the filters of > an upper middle class Brit attitude...maybe Stephan could assist in picking > some more of the details out... > > ck > > S. Krin, DO FAAFP > > [1] Nonconsensual sexual activity...a fair number of the Cutters that I have > worked with in the past eventually admitted that they had been subjected to > non consensual sexual activity at or from a young age... > > [2] Big Man On Campus, AKA " JOCK " , Popular Gal On Campus, AKA > " Cheerleader " ... > > [3] See #1 above...many of the popular kids are sexually active, but it is > much more 'consensual' than the cutters...or at least as consensual as it can > be when it involves a 250 pound football player and a 90 pound cheerleader... > ck > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Dr. Gist makes a point in the association with dates: Tomorrow is April 19th; Branch ian siege ends (1993), Murrah building Terrorist Attack (OKC) in 1995. April 20th is the anniversary of the Columbine Massacre and Hitler's birthday. For all their alienation, the perpetrators cling to dates as a means of validation and association. Larry , RN LP Houston Texas " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3 --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 FWIW, April 20 is the Columbine Massacre, Hitler's birthday--and my mother's. Just a passing nod to Sigmund . . . R. > > Dr. Gist makes a point in the association with dates: Tomorrow is April 19th; Branch ian siege ends (1993), Murrah building Terrorist Attack (OKC) in 1995. April 20th is the anniversary of the Columbine Massacre and Hitler's birthday. > > For all their alienation, the perpetrators cling to dates as a means of validation and association. > > > Larry , RN LP > Houston Texas > > > > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3 > > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 My birthday too (April 20, 1955)! Bledsoe Re: Suicide study FWIW, April 20 is the Columbine Massacre, Hitler's birthday--and my mother's. Just a passing nod to Sigmund . . . R. > > Dr. Gist makes a point in the association with dates: Tomorrow is April 19th; Branch ian siege ends (1993), Murrah building Terrorist Attack (OKC) in 1995. April 20th is the anniversary of the Columbine Massacre and Hitler's birthday. > > For all their alienation, the perpetrators cling to dates as a means of validation and association. > > > Larry , RN LP > Houston Texas > > > > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3 > > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 So many questions suddenly become so clear! R. > > > > Dr. Gist makes a point in the association with dates: Tomorrow is > April 19th; Branch ian siege ends (1993), Murrah building > Terrorist Attack (OKC) in 1995. April 20th is the anniversary of the > Columbine Massacre and Hitler's birthday. > > > > For all their alienation, the perpetrators cling to dates as a > means of validation and association. > > > > > > Larry , RN LP > > Houston Texas > > > > > > > > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for > them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " > Proverbs 22:3 > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Mine is today. (sometime after 1955 :-) ) Mark Hinson, RN, LP T-System ________________________________ From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Bledsoe, DO Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:52 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Re: Suicide study My birthday too (April 20, 1955)! Bledsoe Re: Suicide study FWIW, April 20 is the Columbine Massacre, Hitler's birthday--and my mother's. Just a passing nod to Sigmund . . . R. > > Dr. Gist makes a point in the association with dates: Tomorrow is April 19th; Branch ian siege ends (1993), Murrah building Terrorist Attack (OKC) in 1995. April 20th is the anniversary of the Columbine Massacre and Hitler's birthday. > > For all their alienation, the perpetrators cling to dates as a means of validation and association. > > > Larry , RN LP > Houston Texas > > > > " A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3 > > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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