Oops3

[Guest guest]

It was about 9:30 a.m. Wednesday when a mayday distress call alerted

County emergency workers to the possibility of a downed helicopter in the

area.

Immediately, 911 dispatchers, paramedics, police and fire company volunteers

scrambled into action to locate the STAT MedEvac chopper - the type of

helicopter that transports critically ill or injured patients to the nearest

hospital capable of handling the emergency.

Volunteer firefighters abandoned work to search for the chopper. Medic units

left from Hanover Hospital. State police were notified in Gettysburg.

Even another STAT MedEvac helicopter in nearby Hagerstown, Md., prepared to

launch.

Within 10 minutes of beginning to search, volunteers from Hampton Fire Co.

located the chopper on a farm near Browns Dam Road.

The chopper had landed, and its pilot was safe.

But the relief that came from finding the helicopter was quickly replaced

with an equal dose of frustration.

" It was just a drill, and we didn't know it, " said County 911

coordinator Donna Powers.

According to Powers, the short-lived chaos all boils down to a

miscommunication, and the parties responsible are likely as far away as

Pittsburgh - the location of STAT MedEvac headquarters.

STAT MedEvac's own dispatchers - who initiated the mayday call - apparently

did not know about the planned training mission designed to test whether the

agency could locate its helicopters if they travel off radar.

Because they didn't know about the drill, the dispatchers in Pittsburgh

alerted local authorities in County when the chopper - which was

supposed to be traveling from ville to Shippensburg - disappeared

somewhere near Green Ridge Road in Hamilton Township, Powers said.

Only the higher-ups at STAT MedEvac and the pilot were apparently aware of

the training mission, Powers said.

" They didn't want their own center to know, " she said. " But unfortunately

they forgot to tell us. "

STAT MedEvac periodically holds drills throughout the state similar to

disaster drills fire and emergency personnel run, said spokesman Dan Nakles.

" We fly a lot of missions, and there ... are specific safety requirements, "

Nakles said. " We try to review them. "

Nakles confirmed that the STAT MedEvac supervisor at the dispatch center did

not know about the drill, although he should have in order to oversee

operations, Nakles said.

STAT MedEvac last held a drill about six or seven months ago in Armstrong

County near Pittsburgh, but the supervisor at the dispatch center was aware

of that drill so dispatchers calling the 911 center identified it as a

drill, Nakles said. Personnel could then go through the appropriate steps

" on paper, " he said, which is STAT MedEvac's intention.

Nakles said the drill was STAT MedEvac's first in the middle of the state,

which could have been a reason for the miscommunication. But Nakles stressed

the 911 center and other emergency personnel " did a great job " nevertheless.

" I can't tell you how well they responded, " Nakles said. " It went the way

you would want it to go. "

The incident had a happy ending, although Hampton Fire Co. President Rodney

Heagey said such mishaps are nothing to laugh at.

" We're talking millions of dollars of equipment on the road for a false

alarm, " Heagey said.

When the call came in that a chopper had disappeared around Green Ridge

Road, Heagey said it crossed his mind that a local man was a STAT MedEvac

pilot who lives on a farm off of Browns Dam Road - located less than a mile

from Green Ridge Road.

While most personnel raced to Green Ridge Road, Heagey said he gave in to

his hunch and sent a few private individuals to Browns Dam Road - where they

found the chopper and its pilot.

" It really helps to know who lives around you, " Heagey said.

Powers said she intends to discuss the matter with STAT MedEvac officials to

ensure that a similar incident does not happen again.

" It tied up my dispatch center, " she said.

STAT MedEvac will reevaluate the situation Monday and see what it could have

done better, Nakles said.

" I understand their concerns, " Nakles said. " The question is, do you really

want emergency vehicles responding when it's a drill? "

[Guest guest]

So how do you know how the resources will respond when it is not a drill???

" Bledsoe, DO " wrote:

It was about 9:30 a.m. Wednesday when a mayday distress call alerted

County emergency workers to the possibility of a downed helicopter in the

area.

Immediately, 911 dispatchers, paramedics, police and fire company volunteers

scrambled into action to locate the STAT MedEvac chopper - the type of

helicopter that transports critically ill or injured patients to the nearest

hospital capable of handling the emergency.

Volunteer firefighters abandoned work to search for the chopper. Medic units

left from Hanover Hospital. State police were notified in Gettysburg.

Even another STAT MedEvac helicopter in nearby Hagerstown, Md., prepared to

launch.

Within 10 minutes of beginning to search, volunteers from Hampton Fire Co.

located the chopper on a farm near Browns Dam Road.

The chopper had landed, and its pilot was safe.

But the relief that came from finding the helicopter was quickly replaced

with an equal dose of frustration.

" It was just a drill, and we didn't know it, " said County 911

coordinator Donna Powers.

According to Powers, the short-lived chaos all boils down to a

miscommunication, and the parties responsible are likely as far away as

Pittsburgh - the location of STAT MedEvac headquarters.

STAT MedEvac's own dispatchers - who initiated the mayday call - apparently

did not know about the planned training mission designed to test whether the

agency could locate its helicopters if they travel off radar.

Because they didn't know about the drill, the dispatchers in Pittsburgh

alerted local authorities in County when the chopper - which was

supposed to be traveling from ville to Shippensburg - disappeared

somewhere near Green Ridge Road in Hamilton Township, Powers said.

Only the higher-ups at STAT MedEvac and the pilot were apparently aware of

the training mission, Powers said.

" They didn't want their own center to know, " she said. " But unfortunately

they forgot to tell us. "

STAT MedEvac periodically holds drills throughout the state similar to

disaster drills fire and emergency personnel run, said spokesman Dan Nakles.

" We fly a lot of missions, and there ... are specific safety requirements, "

Nakles said. " We try to review them. "

Nakles confirmed that the STAT MedEvac supervisor at the dispatch center did

not know about the drill, although he should have in order to oversee

operations, Nakles said.

STAT MedEvac last held a drill about six or seven months ago in Armstrong

County near Pittsburgh, but the supervisor at the dispatch center was aware

of that drill so dispatchers calling the 911 center identified it as a

drill, Nakles said. Personnel could then go through the appropriate steps

" on paper, " he said, which is STAT MedEvac's intention.

Nakles said the drill was STAT MedEvac's first in the middle of the state,

which could have been a reason for the miscommunication. But Nakles stressed

the 911 center and other emergency personnel " did a great job " nevertheless.

" I can't tell you how well they responded, " Nakles said. " It went the way

you would want it to go. "

The incident had a happy ending, although Hampton Fire Co. President Rodney

Heagey said such mishaps are nothing to laugh at.

" We're talking millions of dollars of equipment on the road for a false

alarm, " Heagey said.

When the call came in that a chopper had disappeared around Green Ridge

Road, Heagey said it crossed his mind that a local man was a STAT MedEvac

pilot who lives on a farm off of Browns Dam Road - located less than a mile

from Green Ridge Road.

While most personnel raced to Green Ridge Road, Heagey said he gave in to

his hunch and sent a few private individuals to Browns Dam Road - where they

found the chopper and its pilot.

" It really helps to know who lives around you, " Heagey said.

Powers said she intends to discuss the matter with STAT MedEvac officials to

ensure that a similar incident does not happen again.

" It tied up my dispatch center, " she said.

STAT MedEvac will reevaluate the situation Monday and see what it could have

done better, Nakles said.

" I understand their concerns, " Nakles said. " The question is, do you really

want emergency vehicles responding when it's a drill? "

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

PETSAR INC.

(Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

Because its in the nature of those of us involved with emergency services to

respond when the call for help is made.

Kirk

EMT-B

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/25/2007 1:06:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... writes:

So how do you know how the resources will respond when it is not a drill???

That's likely the oldest and lamest excuse for such incidents on the planet.

There is NO excuse for these kinds of things, they invite disaster.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/25/2007 5:24:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... writes:

Ok, please explain. If it was not going to cause disaster if it were a real

situation how would it cause disaster in this case.

By not informing people maybe someone was left out of the loop (I'll give you

a tissue and perhaps I will let you know next time). Perhaps resources were

used that may not have had to be used if it were considered a drill.

If there were a major disaster in this case what is going to happen if or

when the real event happens. Is it not better to find out now instead of losing

personnel later?

Have you ever planned a large scale exercise or drill?

I have and frankly if I did so for any of my previous employers within the

Federal and state systems I worked for and I pulled a no notice stunt like this

I'd have been fired in about 30 minutes.

The two main reasons you do not do this is 1) allocation of resources that

may well be needed to respond to a REAL emergency but then you have this thing

called RESPONDER SAFETY.

You do not set people out on missions where the risk is for nothing. Yes

that means you may well do things differently but if you are trained right and

you exercise right (with the recognition of the artificialities that are

inbred in a well designed exercise, you will respond well to the real thing if

you take the time to learn fro your mistakes made both in the real world and in

the exercise world.

It's OK to risk lives to save live it is a part of the job but to send folks

out on a mission where they may do something that gets them killed while

they are responding to a drill is again inviting disaster.

if you were killed while you responded to this you would get one hell of a

funeral (about the ONLY thing that the fire and EMS world does with ANY

consistency) but in about 3 weeks your loved ones attorney would be filing a

lawsuit (rightfully so) against some entity.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/25/2007 5:24:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... writes:

Were any personnel lost? Were any damages done? Just please let me know

what the train of thought is, I ain't catchin " it.

Yea I see that and here is why.

If you do something and don't get hurt, don't have damages, etc you assume

it will always be that way. Well firefighters, EMT's, Medics and cops die

everyday in training accidents. Everyone of those are presentable and some of

them happen in these kinds of events.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes

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[Guest guest]

I'm going to play the role of the safety nazi here. Accidents imply that

nothing can be done to prevent them. There is no reason why sufficient

preparation can't prevent a training injury or death.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

-Attorney/Licensed Paramedic

-Austin, Texas

In a message dated 12/25/2007 6:18:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

In a message dated 12/25/2007 5:24:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,

_petsardlj@sbcglobalpets_ (mailto:petsardlj@...) writes:

Were any personnel lost? Were any damages done? Just please let me know

what the train of thought is, I ain't catchin " it.

Yea I see that and here is why.

If you do something and don't get hurt, don't have damages, etc you assume

it will always be that way. Well firefighters, EMT's, Medics and cops die

everyday in training accidents. Everyone of those are presentable and some

of

them happen in these kinds of events.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/FF/N

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Freelance CoFreelance Consultant/Trainer

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

There are many things I'll doubt and second-guess Louis on, but operations

and planning are not among them. (Cardiology may be a different story,

though. I'm sure Louis will always second-guess me on pediatric alternative

vascular access, likewise.)

Seriously, though, even the drills with the least notice have some notice.

At the very least, there's enough notice to say, " We're having some sort of

drill today. "

While there's great value to the statement, " You train like you play and you

play like you train, " TRAINING should not involve necessarily the same risks

involved with an actual response. The training should limit outside risks.

Just my $0.02. But I'm not the operations guru. Louis actually is.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

-Attorney/Licensed Paramedic

-Austin, Texas

In a message dated 12/25/2007 6:15:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

In a message dated 12/25/2007 5:24:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,

_petsardlj@sbcglobalpets_ (mailto:petsardlj@...) writes:

Ok, please explain. If it was not going to cause disaster if it were a real

situation how would it cause disaster in this case.

By not informing people maybe someone was left out of the loop (I'll give

you

a tissue and perhaps I will let you know next time). Perhaps resources were

used that may not have had to be used if it were considered a drill.

If there were a major disaster in this case what is going to happen if or

when the real event happens. Is it not better to find out now instead of

losing

personnel later?

Have you ever planned a large scale exercise or drill?

I have and frankly if I did so for any of my previous employers within the

Federal and state systems I worked for and I pulled a no notice stunt like

this

I'd have been fired in about 30 minutes.

The two main reasons you do not do this is 1) allocation of resources that

may well be needed to respond to a REAL emergency but then you have this

thing

called RESPONDER SAFETY.

You do not set people out on missions where the risk is for nothing. Yes

that means you may well do things differently but if you are trained right

and

you exercise right (with the recognition of the artificialities that are

inbred in a well designed exercise, you will respond well to the real thing

if

you take the time to learn fro your mistakes made both in the real world and

in

the exercise world.

It's OK to risk lives to save live it is a part of the job but to send folks

out on a mission where they may do something that gets them killed while

they are responding to a drill is again inviting disaster.

if you were killed while you responded to this you would get one hell of a

funeral (about the ONLY thing that the fire and EMS world does with ANY

consistency) but in about 3 weeks your loved ones attorney would be filing a

lawsuit (rightfully so) against some entity.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/FF/N

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Freelance CoFreelance Consultant/Trainer

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

I believe that the others have made my points for me.

Every run/drill/exercise has a risk period and to add to that risk is just

plain DUMB.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/In-The-Line-Of-Duty/Four-German-Fire

fighters-Killed-in-Crash/39$49873

Four German Firefighters Killed in Crash

Four German firemen were killed when their fire engine crashed as they

rushed to what turned out be a training exercise, police said Tuesday.

The firemen from the small town of Wolmirstedt, near the eastern city of

Magdeburg, were alerted Monday evening that a fire had broken out at a

kindergarten in a nearby town. They were not told that it was an

exercise, police said.

The fire truck, with eight firefighters on board, collided with a van at

a crossroads and turned over.

Four firemen, ranging in age from 20 to 22, were killed and the other

four, along with their driver and the driver of the van, seriously

injured.

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:05 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Oops3

Very well said...thank you.

Go look in Firehouse magazine about 15 months ago about an engine

company of 4 was killed in a traffic accident enroute to an unannounced

exercise. How do we explain that one to their families...

Dudley

Re: Oops3

In a message dated 12/25/2007 5:24:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... <mailto:petsardlj%40sbcglobal.net> writes:

Ok, please explain. If it was not going to cause disaster if it were a

real

situation how would it cause disaster in this case.

By not informing people maybe someone was left out of the loop (I'll

give you

a tissue and perhaps I will let you know next time). Perhaps resources

were

used that may not have had to be used if it were considered a drill.

If there were a major disaster in this case what is going to happen if

or

when the real event happens. Is it not better to find out now instead of

losing

personnel later?

Have you ever planned a large scale exercise or drill?

I have and frankly if I did so for any of my previous employers within

the

Federal and state systems I worked for and I pulled a no notice stunt

like this

I'd have been fired in about 30 minutes.

The two main reasons you do not do this is 1) allocation of resources

that

may well be needed to respond to a REAL emergency but then you have this

thing

called RESPONDER SAFETY.

You do not set people out on missions where the risk is for nothing. Yes

that means you may well do things differently but if you are trained

right and

you exercise right (with the recognition of the artificialities that are

inbred in a well designed exercise, you will respond well to the real

thing if

you take the time to learn fro your mistakes made both in the real world

and in

the exercise world.

It's OK to risk lives to save live it is a part of the job but to send

folks

out on a mission where they may do something that gets them killed while

they are responding to a drill is again inviting disaster.

if you were killed while you responded to this you would get one hell of

a

funeral (about the ONLY thing that the fire and EMS world does with ANY

consistency) but in about 3 weeks your loved ones attorney would be

filing a

lawsuit (rightfully so) against some entity.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services

(LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@... <mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com>

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

THEDUDMAN@... wrote:

" ...It amazes me that people will buy bullet proof vests, stage on violent

scenes, etc when that only accounts for a small percentage of EMS deaths...yet

we will run emergency for any old stupid reason ... "

The low percentage from violence is due to awareness, usually introduced the

first night of the first ECA/EMT classes and continuously repeated in classes

throughout the career. Vehicle safety, because it is also part of our non-career

lives, is given less diligent a discussion and as the saying goes " familiarity

breeds contempt " .

" A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the

simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. " Proverbs 22:3

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/25/2007 6:28:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

I'm sure Louis will always second-guess me on pediatric alternative

vascular access, likewise.)

I might lean over your shoulder and whisper " are you sure you want to put

that there? " , but it would be between us only.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes

(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)