FRO Question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/12/2007 8:22:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,

mhudson@... writes:

Retinal Detachment, Acute Anterior Ischemic Optic Neuropathy, Cilliary

Retinal Artery Occlusion, Giant Arteritis????

And how does a BLS Level provider diagnose the above?

How are these ABSOLUTE Contraindications for BLS Level providers?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/12/2007 9:01:37 A.M. Central Standard Time,

krin135@... writes:

and if the patient is otherwise hypoxic and symptomatic, you will withhold

supplemental oxygen from those patients because?

Another way to put my question (and a better way I must say).

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes

(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Guest guest]

Henry,

FRO's answer to

1. local government -

I have seen local Volunteer Fire Departments disbanded by the city due

to inappropriate actions. I have seen county government cut funds to a fire

department for mismanagement and give territories to other local volunteers.

2. General Public -

Any Q public can through freedom of information act get many

details and hold them to standards through various legal and public forms. Ex:

Civil Court, Newspaper articles, Editorials, complaints through DSHS, or other

agencies.

3. Patient -

The client can hold the care giver who first responds to the

standards through various forums as well.

4. Written agreements with Local EMS - Depends on what is on paper.

I believe that FRO's should be held to a higher standard than bubba who stops

his truck on the side of the road to help Q Drunk who hit the tree. Any

person who responds in my mind should at least be first Aid CPR trained and

taught about privacy and respect. If Q Public is not educated in how help

arrives, then maybe its time for the FRO and local EMS transporting agency to

get the word out.

Henry Said " Pretty extreme but it does happen. First Responder gets on scene

(could

be certified, may not be) speaks with patient and ask if the patient is

Ok and patient says I think so, first reponder cancels EMS. Four or

five minutes later patient looks worse or is complaining and first

reponder calls us back. Heck of a response time right. "

The FRO's that I have been affiliated were not allowed to cancel an

ambulance, but could reduce the priority from lights and siren to no

lights no siren. But the ambulance all ways made the scene.

Henry Said " First Responder arrives at a house call, not certified go into the

house, talks to patient, patient gives out all kinds of personal health

information to non certified First Responder because he/she thinks they

are medical personnel because she did indeed call for an ambulance. "

FRO's I have worked with in the past - made a written report and listed PMH,

Allergies etc and gave that list to me when I was on the Transporting EMS

agency.

Henry said " What exactly do you believe First Responder stands for? And I am

only

speaking to Medical First Response. Who are they first responding for?

The transporting agency, thats who. "

FRO " First Responder Organization " - They show up to help transporting EMS

agency do their job.

Henry Said " In the patients mind they are part of us so if they are in

appropriate or not responsible we get lumped in with that thought. "

When patients see different colored uniforms and names, they will quickly figure

out there are two differnt agencies. Then the question comes... I called the

ambulance, why are you here?

Henry Said " We have first responder groups here that do a good job and we work

as a

team. Its the non team players that cause and issue. And once again if

you are the transporting agency or anyone else including public

officials, you have no control. "

It seems it is allways about control... An individual should be held

responsible for his or her actions. An FRO should be and can be held

responsible for their actions. Just takes time and effort by Q Public, or

Transporting EMS agency to do it. (See above)

Henry Said " So lets be clear are you stating that First Responder agencies or

responders do not have to answer to anyone that they respond for? "

See above. I answered this first.

Tom & Marsha LeNeveu

Paramedic, Future RN; & RN

Fort Worth Texas

Email: TomMarshaLeNeveu@...

PS. Henry - I am enjoying this discussion. Thanks for making me think.... Hope

to have coffee with you sometime soon.

[Guest guest]

Ok Tom you win.

Henry

FRO Question

Henry,

FRO's answer to

1. local government -

I have seen local Volunteer Fire Departments disbanded by the city due to

inappropriate actions. I have seen county government cut funds to a fire

department for mismanagement and give territories to other local volunteers.

2. General Public -

Any Q public can through freedom of information act get many details and

hold them to standards through various legal and public forms. Ex: Civil Court,

Newspaper articles, Editorials, complaints through DSHS, or other agencies.

3. Patient -

The client can hold the care giver who first responds to the standards through

various forums as well.

4. Written agreements with Local EMS - Depends on what is on paper.

I believe that FRO's should be held to a higher standard than bubba who stops

his truck on the side of the road to help Q Drunk who hit the tree. Any

person who responds in my mind should at least be first Aid CPR trained and

taught about privacy and respect. If Q Public is not educated in how help

arrives, then maybe its time for the FRO and local EMS transporting agency to

get the word out.

Henry Said " Pretty extreme but it does happen. First Responder gets on scene

(could

be certified, may not be) speaks with patient and ask if the patient is

Ok and patient says I think so, first reponder cancels EMS. Four or

five minutes later patient looks worse or is complaining and first

reponder calls us back. Heck of a response time right. "

The FRO's that I have been affiliated were not allowed to cancel an

ambulance, but could reduce the priority from lights and siren to no

lights no siren. But the ambulance all ways made the scene.

Henry Said " First Responder arrives at a house call, not certified go into the

house, talks to patient, patient gives out all kinds of personal health

information to non certified First Responder because he/she thinks they

are medical personnel because she did indeed call for an ambulance. "

FRO's I have worked with in the past - made a written report and listed PMH,

Allergies etc and gave that list to me when I was on the Transporting EMS

agency.

Henry said " What exactly do you believe First Responder stands for? And I am

only

speaking to Medical First Response. Who are they first responding for?

The transporting agency, thats who. "

FRO " First Responder Organization " - They show up to help transporting EMS

agency do their job.

Henry Said " In the patients mind they are part of us so if they are in

appropriate or not responsible we get lumped in with that thought. "

When patients see different colored uniforms and names, they will quickly

figure out there are two differnt agencies. Then the question comes... I called

the ambulance, why are you here?

Henry Said " We have first responder groups here that do a good job and we work

as a

team. Its the non team players that cause and issue. And once again if

you are the transporting agency or anyone else including public

officials, you have no control. "

It seems it is allways about control... An individual should be held

responsible for his or her actions. An FRO should be and can be held responsible

for their actions. Just takes time and effort by Q Public, or Transporting

EMS agency to do it. (See above)

Henry Said " So lets be clear are you stating that First Responder agencies or

responders do not have to answer to anyone that they respond for? "

See above. I answered this first.

Tom & Marsha LeNeveu

Paramedic, Future RN; & RN

Fort Worth Texas

Email: TomMarshaLeNeveu@...

PS. Henry - I am enjoying this discussion. Thanks for making me think.... Hope

to have coffee with you sometime soon.