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Lance,

This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of

TEXAS accredited programs.

I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved

overall 90% pass rate.

You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass

rates than accredited programs.

Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an

official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies.

Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not

insured a high pass rate.

Perhaps we should seek to determine why.

GG

>

> While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality

> programs, there has been one study investigating this link.

> Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,

> 2006;10:224–228:

>

> PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING

> EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,

> E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH

>

> Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery

> of quality education and training for allied health

> providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for

> paramedic education programs. This study examined if

> there is a relationship between completion of an accredited

> paramedic education program and achieving a passing score

> on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.

>

> Methods. We used data from the National Registry

> Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.

> Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined

> as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180

> (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual

> subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training

> programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation

> of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services

> Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates

> reported demographic characteristics including age,

> gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer

> type. We examined the relationship between passing

> the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic

> training program.

>

> Results. A total of 12,773 students completed

> the examination. Students who attended an accredited

> program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,

> 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program

> was independently associated with passing the examination

> (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting

> for confounding demographic factors.

>

> Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic

> program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national

> paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed

> to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead

> to improved examination success.

>

> --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1

> >

> > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on

> NR exams

> > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which

> programs

> > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while

> you're

> > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I

> think

> > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

> >

> > Gene Gandy

>

>

>

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I didn't know about Platt, but I certainly view anything with Henry Want's

name on it with the utmost suspicion.

GG

>

> Actually, two of them are NREMT staffers - Phil Dickison, and I think Tom

> Platt recently went to NREMT.

>

> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached.

>

> Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

>

> Lance,

>

> This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of

> TEXAS accredited programs.

>

> I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved

> overall 90% pass rate.

>

> You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass

> rates than accredited programs.

>

> Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an

> official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies.

>

> Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not

> insured a high pass rate.

>

> Perhaps we should seek to determine why.

>

> GG

>

>

> >

> > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality

> > programs, there has been one study investigating this link.

> > Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,

> > 2006;10:224–228:

> >

> > PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING

> > EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,

> > E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH

> >

> > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery

> > of quality education and training for allied health

> > providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for

> > paramedic education programs. This study examined if

> > there is a relationship between completion of an accredited

> > paramedic education program and achieving a passing score

> > on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.

> >

> > Methods. We used data from the National Registry

> > Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.

> > Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined

> > as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180

> > (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual

> > subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training

> > programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation

> > of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services

> > Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates

> > reported demographic characteristics including age,

> > gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer

> > type. We examined the relationship between passing

> > the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic

> > training program.

> >

> > Results. A total of 12,773 students completed

> > the examination. Students who attended an accredited

> > program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,

> > 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program

> > was independently associated with passing the examination

> > (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting

> > for confounding demographic factors.

> >

> > Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic

> > program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national

> > paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed

> > to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead

> > to improved examination success.

> >

> > --- In texasems-l@yahoogro --- In texasems-l@ya --- In te

> > >

> > > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on

> > NR exams

> > > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which

> > programs

> > > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while

> > you're

> > > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I

> > think

> > > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

> > >

> > > Gene Gandy

> >

> >

> >

>

> ************ ******** ******** *******

> Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

> products.

>

> (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp)

>

>

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While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality

programs, there has been one study investigating this link.

Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,

2006;10:224–228:

PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING

EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,

E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH

Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery

of quality education and training for allied health

providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for

paramedic education programs. This study examined if

there is a relationship between completion of an accredited

paramedic education program and achieving a passing score

on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.

Methods. We used data from the National Registry

Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.

Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined

as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180

(70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual

subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training

programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation

of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services

Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates

reported demographic characteristics including age,

gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer

type. We examined the relationship between passing

the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic

training program.

Results. A total of 12,773 students completed

the examination. Students who attended an accredited

program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,

95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program

was independently associated with passing the examination

(OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting

for confounding demographic factors.

Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic

program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national

paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed

to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead

to improved examination success.

>

> I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on

NR exams

> in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which

programs

> with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while

you're

> at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I

think

> this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

>

> Gene Gandy

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Actually, two of them are NREMT staffers - Phil Dickison, and I think Tom Platt

recently went to NREMT.

And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached.

Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

Lance,

This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of

TEXAS accredited programs.

I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved

overall 90% pass rate.

You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass

rates than accredited programs.

Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an

official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies.

Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not

insured a high pass rate.

Perhaps we should seek to determine why.

GG

>

> While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality

> programs, there has been one study investigating this link.

> Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,

> 2006;10:224–228:

>

> PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING

> EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,

> E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH

>

> Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery

> of quality education and training for allied health

> providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for

> paramedic education programs. This study examined if

> there is a relationship between completion of an accredited

> paramedic education program and achieving a passing score

> on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.

>

> Methods. We used data from the National Registry

> Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.

> Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined

> as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180

> (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual

> subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training

> programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation

> of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services

> Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates

> reported demographic characteristics including age,

> gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer

> type. We examined the relationship between passing

> the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic

> training program.

>

> Results. A total of 12,773 students completed

> the examination. Students who attended an accredited

> program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,

> 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program

> was independently associated with passing the examination

> (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting

> for confounding demographic factors.

>

> Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic

> program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national

> paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed

> to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead

> to improved examination success.

>

> --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1

> >

> > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on

> NR exams

> > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which

> programs

> > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while

> you're

> > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I

> think

> > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

> >

> > Gene Gandy

>

>

>

**************************************

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You all know what is coming next don't you? Accreditation of EMS providers.Â

As Medicare continues to find more difficult ways to pay for services

rendered...both quality measures (core measures) and accreditation will be

coming to EMS. Back in the late 90's they were already talking about it and as

the boomers continue to age and live longer...and money becomes more and more

scarce things like this are going to become necessary to obtain M'care and

M'caid funding. With a large number of our population at that time being

M'care recipients, EMS agencies will have to achieve this bench mark or go

unfunded.

Remember...the only constant is change...and as Dale Carnegie said: " Change is

inevitable...Improvement is optional " .

Dudley

Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

Lance,

This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of

TEXAS accredited programs.

I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved

overall 90% pass rate.

You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass

rates than accredited programs.

Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an

official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies.

Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not

insured a high pass rate.

Perhaps we should seek to determine why.

GG

>

> While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality

> programs, there has been one study investigating this link.

> Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,

> 2006;10:224–228:

>

> PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING

> EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,

> E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH

>

> Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery

> of quality education and training for allied health

> providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for

> paramedic education programs. This study examined if

> there is a relationship between completion of an accredited

> paramedic education program and achieving a passing score

> on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.

>

> Methods. We used data from the National Registry

> Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.

> Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined

> as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180

> (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual

> subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training

> programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation

> of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services

> Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates

> reported demographic characteristics including age,

> gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer

> type. We examined the relationship between passing

> the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic

> training program.

>

> Results. A total of 12,773 students completed

> the examination. Students who attended an accredited

> program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,

> 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program

> was independently associated with passing the examination

> (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting

> for confounding demographic factors.

>

> Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic

> program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national

> paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed

> to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead

> to improved examination success.

>

> --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1

> >

> > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on

> NR exams

> > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which

> programs

> > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while

> you're

> > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I

> think

> > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.

> >

> > Gene Gandy

>

>

>

**************************************

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Phil Dickison is no longer at NR. He left there almost a year ago.

Jane Hill

To: texasems-l@...: Grayson902@...: Wed, 28 Nov 2007

21:12:27 -0500Subject: Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

Actually, two of them are NREMT staffers - Phil Dickison, and I think Tom Platt

recently went to NREMT.And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's

name attached. Re:

Accreditation and NR success ratesLance,This is TEXAS! I was and am

specifically talking about the pass records of TEXAS accredited programs.I think

you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved overall 90%

pass rate.You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher

pass rates than accredited programs.Further, I would question the bias of the

authors, since one of them is an official of NREMT and another is famous for his

other biased studies.Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live,

accreditation has not insured a high pass rate.Perhaps we should seek to

determine why. GGIn a message dated 11/28/07 4:20:15 PM, villers@...

writes:> > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality>

programs, there has been one study investigating this link.> Here is the article

and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,> 2006;10:224–228:> > PROGRAM

ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING> EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE.

Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,> E. Platt, MEd, Henry E.

Wang, MD, MPH> > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the

delivery> of quality education and training for allied health> providers.

However, accreditation is not mandated for> paramedic education programs. This

study examined if> there is a relationship between completion of an accredited>

paramedic education program and achieving a passing score> on the National

Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.> > Methods. We used data from the

National Registry> Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.>

Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined> as correctly

answering a minimum of 126 out of 180> (70%) of the questions and meeting or

exceeding the individual> subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training>

programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation> of Educational

Programs for the Emergency Medical Services> Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before

January 1, 2002. Candidates> reported demographic characteristics including

age,> gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer> type.

We examined the relationship between passing> the examination and attendance at

an accredited paramedic> training program.> > Results. A total of 12,773

students completed> the examination. Students who attended an accredited>

program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,> 95% CI: 1.51–1.81).

Attendance at an accredited training program> was independently associated with

passing the examination> (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting>

for confounding demographic factors.> > Conclusion. Students who attended an

accredited paramedic> program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a

national> paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed> to

identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead> to improved examination

success.> > --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1> >> > I

have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on> NR exams> > in

every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which> programs> >

with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while> you're> >

at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I> think> >

this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.> >> > Gene Gandy> > >

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>>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name

attached. <<<

Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because

you frequently do not agree with his findings?

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

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I know Henry Wang pretty well. His intentions, when he began the airway

studies, were to show that prehospital intubation makes a difference and was

as surprised as the rest of us when the study showed the opposite was true.

His methodologies are always sound. You have to look seriously at what he

reports.

BEB

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Kenny Navarro

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:12 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

>>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name

attached. <<<

Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because

you frequently do not agree with his findings?

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

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>>> I know Henry Wang pretty well. His methodologies are always sound.

You have to look seriously at what he reports. <<<

I also think his methodologies are sound and I do take his work

seriously. I am curious as to why some of the others on this list do

not.

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

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I'm not questioning Wang's methodologies, nor am?I suggesting he's biased.?I

merely suggest that his findings are not universally applicable to all EMS

systems. I know Phil Dickison from his days at NREMT, and I've had the pleasure

of being taught by Tom Platt, who whom I have great respect.

I merely meant that when it comes to reading research, caveat emptor applies,

and I?believe that *every* researcher has some built-in bias. The good ones

don't let that bias influence their findings, but?not all researchers are?that

scrupulous.?

Perhaps the medics Wang studied sucked at intubation, or sucked at confirming

tube placement and securing the tube. Perhaps the medics in LA and Orange

Counties actually were as deficient at pediatric intubation as nne Gasuche

contended.

BUT...

The fact remains that there *are* EMS systems that do it right. Boston and HCMC

EMS come to mind, and i'm sure there are others. Instead of applying Wang's or

Gausche's findings to EMS systems nationwide, why aren't we studying Boston or

HCMC or their ilk to find out how they're doing it *right*, and then?emulate

it??

Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

>>> I know Henry Wang pretty well. His methodologies are always sound.

You have to look seriously at what he reports. <<<

I also think his methodologies are sound and I do take his work

seriously. I am curious as to why some of the others on this list do

not.

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

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I think he sets up the studies to prove his points.

GG

In a message dated 11/29/07 7:12:11 AM, kenneth.navarro@...

writes:

>

> >>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name

> attached. <<<

>

> Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because

> you frequently do not agree with his findings?

>

> Kenny Navarro

> Dallas

>

>

>

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That's reassuring. I have had the impression that he has set up studies to

prove preconceived notions. Perhaps I have been wrong. If you say he's on

the up and up, I accept that.

Gene G.

>

> I know Henry Wang pretty well. His intentions, when he began the airway

> studies, were to show that prehospital intubation makes a difference and was

> as surprised as the rest of us when the study showed the opposite was true.

> His methodologies are always sound. You have to look seriously at what he

> reports.

>

> BEB

>

> From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On

> Behalf Of Kenny Navarro

> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:12 AM

> To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem

> Subject: Re: Accreditation and NR success rates

>

> >>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name

> attached. <<<

>

> Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because

> you frequently do not agree with his findings?

>

> Kenny Navarro

> Dallas

>

>

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In a message dated 11/29/2007 9:54:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

I think he sets up the studies to prove his points.

Is that not the concept of a hypothesis?

From Wikipedia:

A hypothesis consists either of a suggested explanation for a _phenomenon_

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenon) or of a reasoned proposal suggesting

a possible correlation between multiple phenomena. The term derives from the

_Greek_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) , hypotithenai meaning

" to put under " or " to suppose. " The _scientific method_

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) requires that one can _test_

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testable) a scientific hypothesis. Scientists

generally base such

hypotheses on previous _observations_

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation) or on extensions of _scientific

theories_

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory) .of course if you prove your hypotheses

wrong you are supposed to be

honest about it.

Of course when you prove yourself wring your supposed to be honest about it.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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