Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Lance, This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of TEXAS accredited programs. I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved overall 90% pass rate. You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass rates than accredited programs. Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies. Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not insured a high pass rate. Perhaps we should seek to determine why. GG > > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality > programs, there has been one study investigating this link. > Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care, > 2006;10:224–228: > > PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING > EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD, > E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH > > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery > of quality education and training for allied health > providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for > paramedic education programs. This study examined if > there is a relationship between completion of an accredited > paramedic education program and achieving a passing score > on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination. > > Methods. We used data from the National Registry > Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002. > Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined > as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180 > (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual > subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training > programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation > of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services > Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates > reported demographic characteristics including age, > gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer > type. We examined the relationship between passing > the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic > training program. > > Results. A total of 12,773 students completed > the examination. Students who attended an accredited > program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65, > 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program > was independently associated with passing the examination > (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting > for confounding demographic factors. > > Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic > program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national > paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed > to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead > to improved examination success. > > --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1 > > > > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on > NR exams > > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which > programs > > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while > you're > > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I > think > > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation. > > > > Gene Gandy > > > ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I didn't know about Platt, but I certainly view anything with Henry Want's name on it with the utmost suspicion. GG > > Actually, two of them are NREMT staffers - Phil Dickison, and I think Tom > Platt recently went to NREMT. > > And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached. > > Re: Accreditation and NR success rates > > Lance, > > This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of > TEXAS accredited programs. > > I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved > overall 90% pass rate. > > You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass > rates than accredited programs. > > Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an > official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies. > > Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not > insured a high pass rate. > > Perhaps we should seek to determine why. > > GG > > > > > > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality > > programs, there has been one study investigating this link. > > Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care, > > 2006;10:224–228: > > > > PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING > > EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD, > > E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH > > > > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery > > of quality education and training for allied health > > providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for > > paramedic education programs. This study examined if > > there is a relationship between completion of an accredited > > paramedic education program and achieving a passing score > > on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination. > > > > Methods. We used data from the National Registry > > Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002. > > Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined > > as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180 > > (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual > > subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training > > programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation > > of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services > > Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates > > reported demographic characteristics including age, > > gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer > > type. We examined the relationship between passing > > the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic > > training program. > > > > Results. A total of 12,773 students completed > > the examination. Students who attended an accredited > > program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65, > > 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program > > was independently associated with passing the examination > > (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting > > for confounding demographic factors. > > > > Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic > > program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national > > paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed > > to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead > > to improved examination success. > > > > --- In texasems-l@yahoogro --- In texasems-l@ya --- In te > > > > > > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on > > NR exams > > > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which > > programs > > > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while > > you're > > > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I > > think > > > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation. > > > > > > Gene Gandy > > > > > > > > ************ ******** ******** ******* > Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > > (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality programs, there has been one study investigating this link. Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care, 2006;10:224–228: PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD, E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery of quality education and training for allied health providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for paramedic education programs. This study examined if there is a relationship between completion of an accredited paramedic education program and achieving a passing score on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination. Methods. We used data from the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002. Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180 (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates reported demographic characteristics including age, gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer type. We examined the relationship between passing the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic training program. Results. A total of 12,773 students completed the examination. Students who attended an accredited program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65, 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program was independently associated with passing the examination (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting for confounding demographic factors. Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead to improved examination success. > > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on NR exams > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which programs > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while you're > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I think > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation. > > Gene Gandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Actually, two of them are NREMT staffers - Phil Dickison, and I think Tom Platt recently went to NREMT. And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached. Re: Accreditation and NR success rates Lance, This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of TEXAS accredited programs. I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved overall 90% pass rate. You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass rates than accredited programs. Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies. Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not insured a high pass rate. Perhaps we should seek to determine why. GG > > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality > programs, there has been one study investigating this link. > Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care, > 2006;10:224–228: > > PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING > EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD, > E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH > > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery > of quality education and training for allied health > providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for > paramedic education programs. This study examined if > there is a relationship between completion of an accredited > paramedic education program and achieving a passing score > on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination. > > Methods. We used data from the National Registry > Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002. > Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined > as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180 > (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual > subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training > programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation > of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services > Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates > reported demographic characteristics including age, > gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer > type. We examined the relationship between passing > the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic > training program. > > Results. A total of 12,773 students completed > the examination. Students who attended an accredited > program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65, > 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program > was independently associated with passing the examination > (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting > for confounding demographic factors. > > Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic > program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national > paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed > to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead > to improved examination success. > > --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1 > > > > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on > NR exams > > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which > programs > > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while > you're > > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I > think > > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation. > > > > Gene Gandy > > > ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 You all know what is coming next don't you? Accreditation of EMS providers. As Medicare continues to find more difficult ways to pay for services rendered...both quality measures (core measures) and accreditation will be coming to EMS. Back in the late 90's they were already talking about it and as the boomers continue to age and live longer...and money becomes more and more scarce things like this are going to become necessary to obtain M'care and M'caid funding. With a large number of our population at that time being M'care recipients, EMS agencies will have to achieve this bench mark or go unfunded. Remember...the only constant is change...and as Dale Carnegie said: " Change is inevitable...Improvement is optional " . Dudley Re: Accreditation and NR success rates Lance, This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of TEXAS accredited programs. I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved overall 90% pass rate. You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass rates than accredited programs. Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies. Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not insured a high pass rate. Perhaps we should seek to determine why. GG > > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality > programs, there has been one study investigating this link. > Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care, > 2006;10:224–228: > > PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING > EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD, > E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH > > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery > of quality education and training for allied health > providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for > paramedic education programs. This study examined if > there is a relationship between completion of an accredited > paramedic education program and achieving a passing score > on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination. > > Methods. We used data from the National Registry > Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002. > Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined > as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180 > (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual > subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training > programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation > of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services > Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates > reported demographic characteristics including age, > gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer > type. We examined the relationship between passing > the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic > training program. > > Results. A total of 12,773 students completed > the examination. Students who attended an accredited > program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65, > 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program > was independently associated with passing the examination > (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting > for confounding demographic factors. > > Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic > program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national > paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed > to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead > to improved examination success. > > --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1 > > > > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on > NR exams > > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which > programs > > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while > you're > > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I > think > > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation. > > > > Gene Gandy > > > ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Phil Dickison is no longer at NR. He left there almost a year ago. Jane Hill To: texasems-l@...: Grayson902@...: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:12:27 -0500Subject: Re: Accreditation and NR success rates Actually, two of them are NREMT staffers - Phil Dickison, and I think Tom Platt recently went to NREMT.And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached. Re: Accreditation and NR success ratesLance,This is TEXAS! I was and am specifically talking about the pass records of TEXAS accredited programs.I think you will find that accredited programs in Texas have not achieved overall 90% pass rate.You will also find that some non-accredited programs do achieve higher pass rates than accredited programs.Further, I would question the bias of the authors, since one of them is an official of NREMT and another is famous for his other biased studies.Based upon Texas figures, and that's where we live, accreditation has not insured a high pass rate.Perhaps we should seek to determine why. GGIn a message dated 11/28/07 4:20:15 PM, villers@... writes:> > While NR success is only one of multiple variables for quality> programs, there has been one study investigating this link.> Here is the article and abstract from Prehospital Emergency Care,> 2006;10:224–228:> > PROGRAM ACCREDITATION EFFECT ON PARAMEDIC CREDENTIALING> EXAMINATION SUCCESS RATE. Philip Dickison, RN, BBA, Hostler, PhD,> E. Platt, MEd, Henry E. Wang, MD, MPH> > Objectives. Program accreditation is used to ensure the delivery> of quality education and training for allied health> providers. However, accreditation is not mandated for> paramedic education programs. This study examined if> there is a relationship between completion of an accredited> paramedic education program and achieving a passing score> on the National Registry Paramedic Certification Examination.> > Methods. We used data from the National Registry> Paramedic Certification Examination for calendar year 2002.> Successful completion (passing) of the examination was defined> as correctly answering a minimum of 126 out of 180> (70%) of the questions and meeting or exceeding the individual> subtest passing scores. Accredited paramedic training> programs were certified by the Committee on Accreditation> of Educational Programs for the Emergency Medical Services> Professions (CoAEMSP) on or before January 1, 2002. Candidates> reported demographic characteristics including age,> gender, self-reported race and ethnicity, education, and employer> type. We examined the relationship between passing> the examination and attendance at an accredited paramedic> training program.> > Results. A total of 12,773 students completed> the examination. Students who attended an accredited> program were more likely to pass the examination (OR=1.65,> 95% CI: 1.51–1.81). Attendance at an accredited training program> was independently associated with passing the examination> (OR=1.58, 95% CI = 1.43–1.74) even after accounting> for confounding demographic factors.> > Conclusion. Students who attended an accredited paramedic> program were more likely to achieve a passing score on a national> paramedic credentialing examination. Additional studies are needed> to identify the aspects of program accreditation that lead> to improved examination success.> > --- In texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem, wegandy1938@, wegandy1> >> > I have a suggestion: Look up the DSHS data on the success rates on> NR exams> > in every program in Texas (the data is available) and then see which> programs> > with high success rates are accredited and which are not. And while> you're> > at it, look at the success rates of all the accredited programs. I> think> > this will tell you much about the value of accreditation.> >> > Gene Gandy> > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products.(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300000000\ 01)[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]__________________________________________________________More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp0\ 0050000000003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 >>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached. <<< Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because you frequently do not agree with his findings? Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I know Henry Wang pretty well. His intentions, when he began the airway studies, were to show that prehospital intubation makes a difference and was as surprised as the rest of us when the study showed the opposite was true. His methodologies are always sound. You have to look seriously at what he reports. BEB From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Kenny Navarro Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:12 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Accreditation and NR success rates >>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name attached. <<< Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because you frequently do not agree with his findings? Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 >>> I know Henry Wang pretty well. His methodologies are always sound. You have to look seriously at what he reports. <<< I also think his methodologies are sound and I do take his work seriously. I am curious as to why some of the others on this list do not. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I'm not questioning Wang's methodologies, nor am?I suggesting he's biased.?I merely suggest that his findings are not universally applicable to all EMS systems. I know Phil Dickison from his days at NREMT, and I've had the pleasure of being taught by Tom Platt, who whom I have great respect. I merely meant that when it comes to reading research, caveat emptor applies, and I?believe that *every* researcher has some built-in bias. The good ones don't let that bias influence their findings, but?not all researchers are?that scrupulous.? Perhaps the medics Wang studied sucked at intubation, or sucked at confirming tube placement and securing the tube. Perhaps the medics in LA and Orange Counties actually were as deficient at pediatric intubation as nne Gasuche contended. BUT... The fact remains that there *are* EMS systems that do it right. Boston and HCMC EMS come to mind, and i'm sure there are others. Instead of applying Wang's or Gausche's findings to EMS systems nationwide, why aren't we studying Boston or HCMC or their ilk to find out how they're doing it *right*, and then?emulate it?? Re: Accreditation and NR success rates >>> I know Henry Wang pretty well. His methodologies are always sound. You have to look seriously at what he reports. <<< I also think his methodologies are sound and I do take his work seriously. I am curious as to why some of the others on this list do not. Kenny Navarro Dallas ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp0\ 0050000000003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I think he sets up the studies to prove his points. GG In a message dated 11/29/07 7:12:11 AM, kenneth.navarro@... writes: > > >>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name > attached. <<< > > Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because > you frequently do not agree with his findings? > > Kenny Navarro > Dallas > > > ************************************** Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 That's reassuring. I have had the impression that he has set up studies to prove preconceived notions. Perhaps I have been wrong. If you say he's on the up and up, I accept that. Gene G. > > I know Henry Wang pretty well. His intentions, when he began the airway > studies, were to show that prehospital intubation makes a difference and was > as surprised as the rest of us when the study showed the opposite was true. > His methodologies are always sound. You have to look seriously at what he > reports. > > BEB > > From: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem [mailto:texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem] On > Behalf Of Kenny Navarro > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:12 AM > To: texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem > Subject: Re: Accreditation and NR success rates > > >>> And I cast a skeptical eye on any study with Henry Wang's name > attached. <<< > > Are you skeptical because Dr. Wang is a sloppy researcher or because > you frequently do not agree with his findings? > > Kenny Navarro > Dallas > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 In a message dated 11/29/2007 9:54:25 P.M. Central Standard Time, wegandy1938@... writes: I think he sets up the studies to prove his points. Is that not the concept of a hypothesis? From Wikipedia: A hypothesis consists either of a suggested explanation for a _phenomenon_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenon) or of a reasoned proposal suggesting a possible correlation between multiple phenomena. The term derives from the _Greek_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) , hypotithenai meaning " to put under " or " to suppose. " The _scientific method_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) requires that one can _test_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testable) a scientific hypothesis. Scientists generally base such hypotheses on previous _observations_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation) or on extensions of _scientific theories_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory) .of course if you prove your hypotheses wrong you are supposed to be honest about it. Of course when you prove yourself wring your supposed to be honest about it. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS) Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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