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Re: Accredited programs in TX

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I am on the GETAC Education Committee and we are working on some of the issues

that you are discussing on the list serve. We not only meet at regular GETAC

meeting but have decided to meet between those sessions to try and address these

issues. I am not a college based program and have dealt with some of the same

issues that you have brought up. I try to look at all of these issues with an

open mind of what is best for education in Texas not just my program. I believe

that we have to bring all programs forward not just a few. I have not made it

any secret that I am not a fan of National Registry but at the same time realize

that it is the only avenue we currently have. We must work within those

guidelines. It is important that all educators have their voice heard. I would

recommend that if you can not attend the meetings that you contact the committee

members and they will bring your concerns to the table.

>>> Hudson 11/29/2007 8:55 AM >>>

I don't have the time to go down to GETAC meetings or be on a committee. When

I'm out of the classroom, my students are not learning, and their stuck with a

sub. Every minute in class is critical to their learning. It would be great if

GETAC was more responsive to everyone, rather than those who can afford the time

to participate in Austin. Any GETAC member out there - please respond....

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Henry

Barber [hbarber@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:38 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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We had a university based program in La. It was a good program, and we had

positive student outcome - with a 95% first time pass rate!!!!! Check the NR

stats for '87-90 for USL-Lafayette. To break it down for you roughly-----

Consultancy - $9,000

Upgrade to equipment - $15,000

Upgrade to Library - $5,000

Referee - $3,000

Staff Overtime - $10,000

Site Visits Cost - $6,000

Copies, meals, travel. - $3,000

Accredidation is a good idea. I don't like the manner it is being crammed down

our throats. Bottom line, if you want to do this right the first time it WILL

cost you money.

Several have asked over and over and over again on this list for GETAC and

Dishes to chime in and say or do SOMETHING ---- They have not.

NR passing rates have absolutely nothing to do with patient care - anybody can

teach the test. The NR means one can meet minimal competency - nothing more.

The education process is the most important thing to have a sound practitioner.

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of

Miles [scottywmiles@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:57 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Mr. Hudson,

Based on your last post, if the organization had to spend $50,000 then

it would suggest the program was not even close to meeting the

standards, and I challenge you, probably not producing students ready

to meet standards either.

May I ask, with all humility, what would you have the EMS community do

to improve the initial education of our Paramedic? If you have not

looked at the NR rates we are not where we need to be. This means our

students suffer, and in the end patients suffer.

We are better now than we where 20 years ago, at least at testing

sites their are not coordinators, and instructors standing at the

doorway reminding their students what the answer to the Dopamine

question was.

Again, I ask, has anyone actually made contact with an Employee at

TDSHS, or a member of GETAC.

It is amazing the most vocal people on this list are some of the most

experienced and intelligent people within the state, with all of your

concerns and a concerted effort you can make a difference in EMS in

Texas. Unfortunately this list is not going make that difference,

unless you are just trying to blow some steam off.

Respectfully

Miles

n Nov 29, 2007 7:55 AM, Hudson

<mhudson@...<mailto:mhudson%40mesquiteisd.org>> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Consultancy, Equipment, Library Resources, Hiring a Referee, Site Visit

> costs - can add up very quickly - it would all depend on how close a program

> is to meeting the standards already. A program I was affiliated with spent

> about $50,000 for the whole process.

>

> -MH

> ________________________________

> From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of

> Alan Lambert [ajl442@...<mailto:ajl442%40gmail.com>]

> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:26 AM

>

> To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> Where did you get that amount, can you cite your source? $50,000? I

> recently worked with an agency that went through the process and the

> cost was much less, more like $5,000.

>

> AJL

>

> On Nov 28, 2007 1:18 PM, Hudson

>

<mhudson@...<mailto:mhudson%40mesquiteisd.org><mailto:mhudson%40mesq\

uiteisd.org>> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This is already out of hand.... the CoAEMSP process as stated before IS

> NOT

> > easy or cheap. We're talking up to $50,000. Dishes needs to prepare a mail

> > out to all advanced programs and have regional coordinator meetings ASAP

> > with NR and CoAEMSP reps to get timely and factual information on this

> > requirement. My program is well set for this. However, the overwhelming

> > majority are not, and oblivious. Five years is a lot shorter than you

> think

> > in getting prepared. Definitive leadership is needed now!!!

> >

> > -MH

> > ________________________________

> > From:

texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:texasems-\

l%40yahoogroups.com>

>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:texasems\

-l%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf

> Of

> > Miles

[scottywmiles@...<mailto:scottywmiles%40gmail.com><mailto:scottywmiles%40g\

mail.com>]

>

> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:04 PM

> >

> > To:

texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:texasems-\

l%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> > Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

> >

> >

> > Thanks to Maxie for settling this before it gets out of hand!

> >

> > Miles

> >

> >

> > On Nov 28, 2007 9:23 AM,

>

<maxifire@...<mailto:maxifire%40aol.com><mailto:maxifire%40aol.com><mailto:m\

axifire%40aol.com>>

>

>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > CECBEMS

> > >

> > > What are the requirements for organizational accreditation?

> > > Here is a brief summary of the requirements for organizational

> > > accreditation:

> > >

> > > · Provide a written statement approved by its governing body that

> > > supports its EMS continuing education mission.

> > >

> > > · Demonstrate an ongoing needs assessment for specific EMS

> > > educational activities.

> > >

> > > · Submit a letter of recommendation or approval of its state EMS

> > > office.

> > >

> > > · Document resources consistent with its educational mission

> > > relative to EMS continuing education.

> > >

> > > · Submit a current agreement with physician medical director(s) to

> > > provide direction to the EMS and the CECBEMS program committee.

> > >

> > > · Maintain a program committee that reviews and approves all

> > > activities offered by the accredited organization and by cosponsoring

> > > organizations.

> > >

> > > · Comply with CECBEMS policies.

> > >

> > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's

> > hottest

> > > products.

> > >

> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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I am losing track of this thread.

1. Is it the consensus that paramedic programs should in no way be

accredited or regulated? If that is the case, Texas had better forget

reciprocity with other states. Also, third party payers may mandate

providers be graduates of accredited programs.

2. Do you want TDSHS to start accrediting programs? Given their

current budget, they can't afford paper clips.

3. GETAC is an advisory panel (I am on one of the committees). That is

it. We have no power other than the power of recommendation.

Medical schools went through the same issue in the early part of the 20th

century after publication of the Flexner report. Now, medical education is

standardized across the United States and across disciplines (MD and DO).

Everybody seems concerned about the accreditation issue but does not offer

alternative other than TDSHS which will NOT be taking on any

responsibilities in the foreseeable future. When you look at allied health

care (e.g., RTs, nuclear techs, etc) all of these professions participate in

the accreditation of programs.

Interestingly, the only states that don't use the National Registry are:

Utah

New York

North Carolina

Massachusetts

Illinois

Florida and Maine use the National Registry for Basic certification only.

Alaska, Indiana, land, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington

DC, and

Washington use the National Registry for Paramedic certification only.

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>>> By my count, if you count an ISD as a non-college based

program...it is 9 non-college affiliated folks and 8 college

affiliated. <<<

Dudley,

How can we keep a good conspiracy theory going if you are going to

interject facts!!!!

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

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>>> Medical schools went through the same issue in the early part of

the 20th century after publication of the Flexner report. <<<

What is interesting about Flexner's report (in my opinion) is that his

call for standardized education created the exact same objections that

are being posted on this list.

The Medical profession came out of it stronger and the public was

better served by establishing standards for physician education.

I suspect our profession will as well.

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

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I never alleged a conspiracy. I was just asking the makeup, since it's been a

while since I looked at the commitee membership.

Honestly, if I fault anyone, I fault the people who solely complain online. I

complain online as much as anyone, and more than most, but when action is

needed, I still pick up the phone, send an email, or write a letter.

Despite the vast membership of this list, not every leader in EMS subscribes to

this list. That means if you want your opinion heard, you've still got to

contact them directly.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

-Attorney/Licensed Paramedic

-Licensed and sanitized for your protection  ;-)

Re: Accredited programs in TX

>>> By my count, if you count an ISD as a non-college based

program...it is 9 non-college affiliated folks and 8 college

affiliated. <<<

Dudley,

How can we keep a good conspiracy theory going if you are going to

interject facts!!!!

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

________________________________________________________________________

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I will admit that I am lucky that I am supported by my employer to both

attend and participate as a committee member in GETAC. There are just as

many that do not have that support yet are at each and every set of

meetings making sure that their voice is heard. I would guess that none

of us are any less busy or important than you are Mr.. Hudson.

GETAC must adhere to the rules of the open meeting and open records act

and therefore can only conduct business in a certain way. The most

feasible is to hold regularly scheduled meetings in as central location

as possible.

If you don't take the time to invest in the system, then you may very

well find yourself working within a system that you don't care for.

I find it hard to believe that of all the EMS educators in the state

there is not one that could " sub " for you so that you could participate

in GETAC. Maybe you could even bring your students along and they could

participate and have a more well rounded education.

Rick , RN, LP, EMS-I

College Station, Texas

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Hudson

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:56 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I don't have the time to go down to GETAC meetings or be on a committee.

When I'm out of the classroom, my students are not learning, and their

stuck with a sub. Every minute in class is critical to their learning.

It would be great if GETAC was more responsive to everyone, rather than

those who can afford the time to participate in Austin. Any GETAC member

out there - please respond....

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf Of Henry Barber [hbarber@...

<mailto:hbarber%40cableone.net> ]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:38 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding

that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs

who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the

accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through

accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if

the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth

keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't

have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help

with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY

di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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Share on other sites

I suppose you really have to be a high school teacher to fully understand. When

I was EMS Director and coordinator in a paramedic program taking GETAC time was

never a problem. I already spend significant time away in required in-services,

HOSA activities, and sick days(like today). Unless you teach HS students, you

can not understand.... as far as taking 60 HS students to Austin for GETAC - I

don't think so...... You are fortuate that you have time to participate in

GETAC, one day you may not.

As stated before GETAC needs to consider coming out in other parts of the state

1 time a year or so. I have talked to several people who can not get away for

GETAC because of lack of employer support. GETAC members need to decentralize

and get out to their constituents. Hey - I think we call that participative

democracy

As far as investing in " this system " let me assure you that for 27 years I have

done so. I will continue to express my ideas and concerns for the benefit of

this man's EMS as well as I can whether it be on this list, in Austin, or

elsewhere. If GETAC members or others choose not to listen or disagree, that's

peachy with me......

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of

, Rick [rick.moore@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:03 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I will admit that I am lucky that I am supported by my employer to both

attend and participate as a committee member in GETAC. There are just as

many that do not have that support yet are at each and every set of

meetings making sure that their voice is heard. I would guess that none

of us are any less busy or important than you are Mr.. Hudson.

GETAC must adhere to the rules of the open meeting and open records act

and therefore can only conduct business in a certain way. The most

feasible is to hold regularly scheduled meetings in as central location

as possible.

If you don't take the time to invest in the system, then you may very

well find yourself working within a system that you don't care for.

I find it hard to believe that of all the EMS educators in the state

there is not one that could " sub " for you so that you could participate

in GETAC. Maybe you could even bring your students along and they could

participate and have a more well rounded education.

Rick , RN, LP, EMS-I

College Station, Texas

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] On

Behalf Of Hudson

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:56 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I don't have the time to go down to GETAC meetings or be on a committee.

When I'm out of the classroom, my students are not learning, and their

stuck with a sub. Every minute in class is critical to their learning.

It would be great if GETAC was more responsive to everyone, rather than

those who can afford the time to participate in Austin. Any GETAC member

out there - please respond....

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf Of Henry Barber [hbarber@...<mailto:hbarber%40cableone.net>

<mailto:hbarber%40cableone.net> ]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:38 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding

that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs

who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the

accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through

accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if

the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth

keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't

have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help

with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY

di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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I do now understand your situation, I thought you were an instructor in

an EMS program, not a high school. You are right that would be difficult

for you. There are other avenues for your voice to be heard however. As

was pointed out earlier the email addresses of all GETAC and GETAC

committee members are published on the DSHS website. There have been

many instances of committee discussion and action based on a letter or

email sent to a committee member.

GETAC does hold it's November meeting in conjunction with the Texas EMS

Conference which for the last three years has been held in sites other

than Austin and next year will be in Fort Worth.

Rick

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Hudson

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:56 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I suppose you really have to be a high school teacher to fully

understand. When I was EMS Director and coordinator in a paramedic

program taking GETAC time was never a problem. I already spend

significant time away in required in-services, HOSA activities, and sick

days(like today). Unless you teach HS students, you can not

understand.... as far as taking 60 HS students to Austin for GETAC - I

don't think so...... You are fortuate that you have time to participate

in GETAC, one day you may not.

As stated before GETAC needs to consider coming out in other parts of

the state 1 time a year or so. I have talked to several people who can

not get away for GETAC because of lack of employer support. GETAC

members need to decentralize and get out to their constituents. Hey - I

think we call that participative democracy

As far as investing in " this system " let me assure you that for 27 years

I have done so. I will continue to express my ideas and concerns for the

benefit of this man's EMS as well as I can whether it be on this list,

in Austin, or elsewhere. If GETAC members or others choose not to listen

or disagree, that's peachy with me......

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf Of , Rick [rick.moore@...

<mailto:rick.moore%40triadhospitals.com> ]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:03 PM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I will admit that I am lucky that I am supported by my employer to both

attend and participate as a committee member in GETAC. There are just as

many that do not have that support yet are at each and every set of

meetings making sure that their voice is heard. I would guess that none

of us are any less busy or important than you are Mr.. Hudson.

GETAC must adhere to the rules of the open meeting and open records act

and therefore can only conduct business in a certain way. The most

feasible is to hold regularly scheduled meetings in as central location

as possible.

If you don't take the time to invest in the system, then you may very

well find yourself working within a system that you don't care for.

I find it hard to believe that of all the EMS educators in the state

there is not one that could " sub " for you so that you could participate

in GETAC. Maybe you could even bring your students along and they could

participate and have a more well rounded education.

Rick , RN, LP, EMS-I

College Station, Texas

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:texasems-l

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] On

Behalf Of Hudson

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:56 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: Accredited programs in TX

I don't have the time to go down to GETAC meetings or be on a committee.

When I'm out of the classroom, my students are not learning, and their

stuck with a sub. Every minute in class is critical to their learning.

It would be great if GETAC was more responsive to everyone, rather than

those who can afford the time to participate in Austin. Any GETAC member

out there - please respond....

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

Behalf Of Henry Barber [hbarber@...

<mailto:hbarber%40cableone.net> <mailto:hbarber%40cableone.net>

<mailto:hbarber%40cableone.net> ]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:38 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding

that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs

who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the

accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through

accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if

the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth

keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't

have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help

with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY

di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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If you can't make it to the meetings you are welcome to send a letter to any

of the committee members they are listed on DSHS webpage under GETAC.

Maxie Bishop, RN, LP

State EMS Director

_maxie.bishop@..._ (mailto:maxie.bishop@...)

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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§ 773.012. ADVISORY COUNCIL. (a) The governor shall

appoint an advisory council to advise the board regarding matters

related to the responsibilities of the board, commissioner, and

department under this chapter. In making appointments to the

advisory council, the governor shall ensure that approximately

one-half of the members of the advisory council are residents of

rural areas of the state.

(B) The advisory council is composed of the following 15

members appointed by the governor:

(1) a board-certified emergency physician, appointed

from a list of names recommended by a statewide professional

association of emergency physicians;

(2) a licensed physician who is an emergency medical

services medical director, appointed from a list of names

recommended by a statewide professional association of emergency

medical services medical directors;

(3) a fire chief for a municipality that provides

emergency medical services, appointed from a list of names

recommended by a statewide fire chiefs association;

(4) an officer or employee of a private provider of

emergency medical services who is involved with the development of

a Texas Trauma System, appointed from a list of names recommended by

a statewide association of private providers of emergency medical

services;

(5) a volunteer who provides emergency medical

services, appointed from a list of names recommended by a statewide

association of volunteers;

(6) an educator in the field of emergency medical

services;

(7) a member of an emergency medical services air

medical team or unit, appointed from a list of names recommended by

a statewide emergency medical services air medical association;

(8) a representative of a fire department that

provides emergency medical services, appointed from a list of names

recommended by a statewide association of firefighters;

(9) a representative of hospitals who is affiliated

with a hospital that is a designated trauma facility in an urban

community, appointed from a list of names recommended by a

statewide association of hospitals;

(10) a representative of hospitals, who is affiliated

with a hospital that is a designated trauma facility in a rural

community, appointed from a list of names recommended by a

statewide association of hospitals;

(11) a representative of a county provider of

emergency medical services;

(12) one licensed physician who is a pediatrician with

trauma or emergency care expertise;

(13) one trauma surgeon or one registered nurse with

trauma expertise; and

(14) two representatives of the general public who are

not qualified to serve under another subdivision of this

subsection.

© A person may not be a public member of the advisory

council if the person or the person's spouse:

(1) is registered, certified, or licensed by a

regulatory agency in the field of emergency medical services;

(2) is employed by or participates in the management

of a business entity or other organization regulated by or

receiving money from the department;

(3) owns or controls, directly or indirectly, more

than a 10 percent interest in a business entity or other

organization regulated by or receiving money from the department;

or

(4) uses or receives a substantial amount of tangible

goods, services, or money from the department other than

reimbursement authorized by law for advisory council membership,

attendance, or expenses.

(d) In this subsection, " Texas trade association " means a

cooperative and voluntarily joined association of business or

professional competitors in this state designed to assist its

members and its industry or profession in dealing with mutual

business or professional problems and in promoting their common

interest. A person may not be a member of the advisory council if:

(1) the person is an officer, employee, or paid

consultant of a Texas trade association in the field of emergency

medical services; or

(2) the person's spouse is an officer, manager, or paid

consultant of a Texas trade association in the field of emergency

medical services.

(e) A person may not be a member of the advisory council if

the person is required to register as a lobbyist under Chapter 305,

Government Code, because of the person's activities for

compensation on behalf of a profession related to the operation of

the department.

(f) Members of the advisory council serve staggered

six-year terms with the terms of five members expiring January 1 of

each even-numbered year. A vacancy on the advisory council is

filled in the same manner as the original appointment for the

unexpired term.

(g) The governor shall appoint the presiding officer of the

advisory council.

(h) A member of the advisory council serves without

compensation. Chapter 2110, Government Code, does not apply to the

size, composition, or duration of the advisory council.

(i) The advisory council shall meet at least quarterly in

the city of Austin. The advisory council shall meet as provided by

procedural rules adopted by the advisory council or at the call of

the presiding officer. The advisory council may appoint committees

it considers necessary to perform its duties.

(j) The advisory council periodically shall review board

rules relating to this chapter and may recommend changes in those

rules to the board. The board and the commissioner shall ensure

that the advisory council is given adequate time and opportunity to

review and comment on each rule proposed for adoption by the board

under this chapter, including the amendment or repeal of an

existing rule, but not including an emergency rule.

(k) The advisory council shall assess the need for emergency

medical services in the rural areas of the state.

(l) The advisory council shall develop a strategic plan for:

(1) refining the educational requirements for

certification and maintaining certification as emergency medical

services personnel; and

(2) developing emergency medical services and trauma

care systems.

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I do not know the answer to that. Perhaps Dr. Racht or someone from GETAC

could answer that question.

GG

>

> Gene,

>

> " Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

> education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding that

> they

> either furnish it or give up the contract? "

>

> A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

>

> Henry

> RE: Accredited programs in TX

> >

> > I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> > may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the

> accreditation

> > process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> > It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> > program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> > around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> > the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help

> with

> > the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> > mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> > should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

> >

> > -MH

> >

> >

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The website of Continental Testing Service states that they have administered

over 350,000 tests in over 70 professions. If true, that would make them a

major player.

Gene G.

>

> Illinois: They use a local company Continental Testing Service

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********<wbr>*********<wbr>

> *

> products.

> (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp)

>

>

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Let me ask this question. What would it take to go back to a testing system

like Texas had for many years and do away with NR and make it an option again

instead of a have to.

Wayne

Don Royder wrote:

I am on the GETAC Education Committee and we are working on some of

the issues that you are discussing on the list serve. We not only meet at

regular GETAC meeting but have decided to meet between those sessions to try and

address these issues. I am not a college based program and have dealt with some

of the same issues that you have brought up. I try to look at all of these

issues with an open mind of what is best for education in Texas not just my

program. I believe that we have to bring all programs forward not just a few. I

have not made it any secret that I am not a fan of National Registry but at the

same time realize that it is the only avenue we currently have. We must work

within those guidelines. It is important that all educators have their voice

heard. I would recommend that if you can not attend the meetings that you

contact the committee members and they will bring your concerns to the table.

>>> Hudson 11/29/2007 8:55 AM >>>

I don't have the time to go down to GETAC meetings or be on a committee. When

I'm out of the classroom, my students are not learning, and their stuck with a

sub. Every minute in class is critical to their learning. It would be great if

GETAC was more responsive to everyone, rather than those who can afford the time

to participate in Austin. Any GETAC member out there - please respond....

-MH

________________________________

From: texasems-l [texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Henry

Barber [hbarber@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:38 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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O yea are speaking the devils word. We will all pray for you.

henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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Ok Henry, let me rephrase that question then. What would it take to have a

properly working Texas testing system once again?

WD

Henry Barber wrote:

O yea are speaking the devils word. We will all pray for you.

henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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In a message dated 11/30/2007 6:58:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

Louis,

I was referring to the NAEMT. I was under the impression from a few years

back, that EMSAT was the Texas rep for NAEMT.? Is that no longer the case??

State based organizations wouldn't be a part of a national project such as

this...national organizations would have.? That was what I was referring to.

Dudley

Fair enough and Yes EMSAT is the State Affiliate for NAEMT. What I was

saying was that EMSAT in and of itself was not a part of any of the process and

in

fact EMSAT as an organization does not sit on GETAC directly although we do

have members of both EMSAT and the BoD that are part of that process and in

fact at our last meeting we had a long discussion regarding how we (EMSAT need

to move to get more involved with GETAC as a whole. I cannot speak for what

NAEMT's position was on this NR " accreditation " issue but you are correct in

that as a National Organization (I will see what I can about what role NAEMT

played in the process and or it's position on same, and get back to the List

on that point.) I am sure they were involved in the process or have some level

of position on this matter.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 11/30/2007 7:21:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

Like PersonVue no doubt...wonder if they make the test or just administer

it.? When you look at FL, at least when I was there, the testing company they

used administered the test...they didn't create it.

Dudley

A valid and salient observation. Many companies like this are test

administration firms not firms that are made up of psychometric academic

professionals.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Owner and President of LNM Emergency Services Consulting Services (LNMECS)

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/TFW/FSS Fax)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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Good question. I don't know.

GG

>

> Like PersonVue no doubt...wonder if they make the test or just administer

> it.? When you look at FL, at least when I was there, the testing company they

> used administered the test...they didn't create it.

>

> Dudley

>

> Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> The website of Continental Testing Service states that they have

> administered

> over 350,000 tests in over 70 professions. If true, that would make them a

> major player.

>

> Gene G.

>

>

> >

> > Illinois: They use a local company Continental Testing Service

> >

> > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********<<wbr><wbr>****<

> wbr>

> > *

> > products.

> > (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.wbhttp://money.wbhttp:/<wbhttp)

> >

> >

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Mike,

Although I only participate on sub-committees, I would be happy to respond...one

GETAC meeting a year has been held out of Austin for 3 of the last 4 years

during the EMS Conference.? The attendance at these meetings was about average

of what it is when it is in Austin.? There usually are several new faces at the

Conference meetings...unfortunately, when it gets to time for public comments

and action items...like the meeting almost 2 weeks ago, the numbers of those in

attendance is in the teens or twenties...

The Education Committee is now doing day long work sessions in between GETAC

meetings.? They are meeting on January 11, from 0800 to 1700.? This is in

Austin, but often that is because of meeting space and the availability of free

space.? In addition, the main GETAC meeting has to be in Austin due to the

legislation that originated it since it is a Governor's appointed advisory

committee.

All this being said, your issue was one of the ones identified by our task force

and it is being addressed by GETAC as are a whole host of other issues as to how

they operate, at their Strategic Planning Retreat in late January.?Will be good

to see what changes come out of that.

Hope that helps.

Dudley

Re: Accredited programs in TX

Gene,

" Again, why is Texas letting NREMT tell us what we need to do in EMS

education? Why isn't Texas telling NREMT what WE NEED, and demanding that they

either furnish it or give up the contract? "

A better question is why is GETAC not more vocal on this issue?

Henry

RE: Accredited programs in TX

>

> I'm also concerned about some of the college and independent programs who

> may have to drop paramedic programs because of the cost of the accreditation

> process. I have been with 2 programs who have gone through accreditation.

> It's not cheap, and it takes a mountain of support. Some might say if the

> program can't go through accreditation, then they are not worth keeping

> around. However, there are some exceptional programs that just don't have

> the cash to do it. Hopefully, Dishes and GETAC will muster up and help with

> the expenses and provide tech assistance to programs seeking the now

> mandatory accreditation( mandatory accreditation(<wbr>even though THEY di

> should be a top priority for the GETAC Education Committee.

>

> -MH

>

>

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Like PersonVue no doubt...wonder if they make the test or just administer it.?

When you look at FL, at least when I was there, the testing company they used

administered the test...they didn't create it.

Dudley

Re: Accredited programs in TX

The website of Continental Testing Service states that they have administered

over 350,000 tests in over 70 professions. If true, that would make them a

major player.

Gene G.

>

> Illinois: They use a local company Continental Testing Service

>

> ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>*********<wbr>*********<wbr>

> *

> products.

> (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<wbhttp)

>

>

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NR writes and validates the test...Person Vue administers it only.

Jules

Re: Accredited programs in TX

>

> The website of Continental Testing Service states that they have

> administered

> over 350,000 tests in over 70 professions. If true, that would make them a

> major player.

>

> Gene G.

>

>

> >

> > Illinois: They use a local company Continental Testing Service

> >

> > ************ ******** ******** ************<wbr>********<<wbr><wbr>****<

> wbr>

> > *

> > products.

> > (http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.wbhttp://money.wbhttp:/<wbhttp)

> >

> >

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I seem to recall in a conversation thread on this list almost a year ago that

this company writes and administers. But it should be easy enough to find out,

shouldn't it?

Jane Hill

To: texasems-l@...: wegandy1938@...: Fri, 30 Nov 2007

23:32:41 -0500Subject: Re: Accredited programs in TX

Good question. I don't know.GGIn a message dated 11/30/07 6:21:36 PM,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:> > Like PersonVue no doubt...wonder if they make the

test or just administer > it.? When you look at FL, at least when I was there,

the testing company they > used administered the test...they didn't create it.>

> Dudley> > Re:

Accredited programs in TX> > The website of Continental Testing

Service states that they have > administered> over 350,000 tests in over 70

professions. If true, that would make them a> major player.> > Gene G.> In a

message dated 11/29/07 7:56:33 AM, maxifire@... writes:> > >> > Illinois:

They use a local company Continental Testing Service> >> > ************ ********

******** ************<wbr>********<<wbr><wbr>****<> wbr>> > *> > products.> >

(http://money.http://money.<wbhttp://money.wbhttp://money.wbhttp:/<wbhttp)> >> >

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