Boundary violation.....who's to blame?

March 25, 2011

Ok, I'm extremely upset right now, so this may sound like a rambling rant, but

I'm really stuck right now, and I don't know where to go from here. I posted a

message last week about my need to take a break from seeing nada for a while

until I can work through some anger and other issues. I've been going through

some pretty intensive therapy with a T, and on my own through reading, etc.

Right now, I'm going through a stage where I can't even stand to be in the same

room with her. Just being around her or even hearing the sound of her voice on

the phone triggers me so badly that it takes every ounce of energy I have to

control my anger. So, my T and I agreed that I needed to be NC with her for a

while so I could work on things in peace.

I talked to nada about a week and 1/2 ago and told her that I was working on

some things in my life and I needed space. She wasn't happy, but she seemed to

accept it ok with no raging, or anything. I should have listened to the little

voice that told me " that was too easy " . I waited for the tsunami that usually

follows anytime I set a boundary, but a week went by an nothing happened.

Even though I was anxious, the week without her calling or e-mailing was like a

little peace of heaven for me. I was just beginning to let go of the anxiety

about what her next move might be. Then, out of the blue this afternoon, you

guessed it - I was AMBUSHED by a sneaky, surprise attack call. I had just picked

up my daughter from school and my cell phone rang. I didn't recognize the

number, but I answered it anyway because I have been looking for a job, and I

thought it may be a call from someone who had seen my resume online or

something. But, SURPRISE, it was nada. She knows that I won't answer the phone

if I see either her home or her cell # come up. I always let her calls go to

voicemail because she loves to catch me off guard, and I HATE that! So, she

called me from her dentist's office phone. I was so pissed that she tried to

circumvent my boundaries like that. She sounded really surprised that I

answered, and she was being over the top nice again. I figured out that this is

her latest hoovering technique. I call it her " kill them with kindness "

maneuver. She figures that if she is really, really nice to me, that I will feel

too guilty to refuse her request.

So she's like, " Oh, hi baby! How are you? " , and before I could say anything, she

said, " I just finished getting my teeth cleaned here at the dentist's office,

and was wondering if I could stop by and see you. " I told her that we would not

be home, as we were on our way to my daughter's art class that she has every

Friday afternoon (nada knows this). Nada continued, " Well, I just wanted to see

you and I can't wait to share with you all of the wonderful things that are

happening in my life " . She asked me if she could call me back later this

weekend. I reluctantly agreed because I didn't want to get into a big discussion

with her while I had DD in the car with me. I just wanted to end the call and be

done with it. But, it was not to be because before I could say, " Well, gotta go

now " , she blurted out that she wanted to pick DD up next weekend for her to

spend the night with her and then take her shopping the next day. She pressured

me for an answer right away, (another favorite tactic) hoping that I would say

" yes " before I had a chance to even think about it. But, I didn't fall for that

one. Instead, I told her that DH and I would have to discuss it, and I would

have to let her know.

DH and I decided some time back that we are not comfortable with DD spending

unsupervised time with nada, and we also decided that DD spending the night was

totally off limits at least for the time being. Again, I put her off because I

really didn't want to get into that discussion with her while I was driving and

with DD in the back seat.

When I finally got off of the phone with her, I was so upset and angry I was

literally shaking. Luckily, my DD did not notice. I dropped her off at her art

lesson and then called DH at work. He could tell I was upset and kept trying to

tell me to calm down. I got upset with HIM because he kinda invalidated my

feelings. I don't remember his exact words, but basically he didn't see why I

was so angry over her calling because it " wasn't a big deal " - so she called, so

what? I defended myself by saying, " but she violated my boundary! " Then he said

something like, " well, not really because you never explained it to her " . Then

he added, " and she did give you some space, even if it was only a week. You

didn't tell her how long you needed it. " True, I didn't go into details about

what I meant by needing some " space " . I didn't define " space " for her. I didn't

put a time limit on it or any conditions on it like, " don't call, don't e-mail,

don't come by my house " , or anything like that. I guess I incorrectly assumed

that she would know that me asking for space would mean her leaving me the HELL

alone for a while. What was I thinking? Since when can you assume that BP's

understand ANYTHING about boundaries or anyone else's needs except for their

own?

So now I'm stuck. I feel like I royally screwed up, but I'm new at this boundary

thing. I didn't grow up knowing what boundaries were, much less that I actually

had a RIGHT and an obligation to myself to set them. Now I've gone and gotten

into a situation where I feel like I have to have another conversation with her

to restate my need to be left alone for a while, and NO I don't have to tell her

why or how long - which she is not going to take well. Plus, I have the added

stress of having to tell her that DD cannot spend the night with her, which she

is also not going to understand or be happy about. I'm not afraid of her anger,

I think maybe it's more about guilt than anything. It's so much easier to set

boundaries and stick to them when she's acting like a total bitch. Why does she

have to be so F***ING NICE to me all of a sudden???? Am I wrong???

March 25, 2011

You did NOT screw up. You were ambushed! Big difference:)

Anger is understandable, but don't panic-you are just seeing how far she

will go to show you what she thinks of your boundaries. Looking at what

boundaries you have set up, and where you need to stand your ground or

adjust your defenses accordingly seems reasonable to me. I think she caught

you off guard, but she also revealed herself somewhat.

My nm and dad did the same thing when I went LC-blatant and covert attempts

to 'get me' back where they wanted. I went NC after that because they went

so far as to endanger my family in their attempts to flaunt the boundaries

and force us to submit so they would stop.

All that to say, if her initial attempts to get to you don't get her what

she wants, it might get worse. N's don't exactly give up. You are doing

fine. Just hold your boundaries:)

Ok, I'm extremely upset right now, so this may sound like a rambling rant,

but I'm really stuck right now, and I don't know where to go from here. I

posted a message last week about my need to take a break from seeing nada

for a while until I can work through some anger and other issues. I've been

going through some pretty intensive therapy with a T, and on my own through

reading, etc. Right now, I'm going through a stage where I can't even stand

to be in the same room with her. Just being around her or even hearing the

sound of her voice on the phone triggers me so badly that it takes every

ounce of energy I have to control my anger. So, my T and I agreed that I

needed to be NC with her for a while so I could work on things in peace.

I talked to nada about a week and 1/2 ago and told her that I was working on

some things in my life and I needed space. She wasn't happy, but she seemed

to accept it ok with no raging, or anything. I should have listened to the

little voice that told me " that was too easy " . I waited for the tsunami that

usually follows anytime I set a boundary, but a week went by an nothing

happened.

Even though I was anxious, the week without her calling or e-mailing was

like a little peace of heaven for me. I was just beginning to let go of the

anxiety about what her next move might be. Then, out of the blue this

afternoon, you guessed it - I was AMBUSHED by a sneaky, surprise attack

call. I had just picked up my daughter from school and my cell phone rang. I

didn't recognize the number, but I answered it anyway because I have been

looking for a job, and I thought it may be a call from someone who had seen

my resume online or something. But, SURPRISE, it was nada. She knows that I

won't answer the phone if I see either her home or her cell # come up. I

always let her calls go to voicemail because she loves to catch me off

guard, and I HATE that! So, she called me from her dentist's office phone. I

was so pissed that she tried to circumvent my boundaries like that. She

sounded really surprised that I answered, and she was being over the top

nice again. I figured out that this is her latest hoovering technique. I

call it her " kill them with kindness " maneuver. She figures that if she is

really, really nice to me, that I will feel too guilty to refuse her

request.

So she's like, " Oh, hi baby! How are you? " , and before I could say anything,

she said, " I just finished getting my teeth cleaned here at the dentist's

office, and was wondering if I could stop by and see you. " I told her that

we would not be home, as we were on our way to my daughter's art class that

she has every Friday afternoon (nada knows this). Nada continued, " Well, I

just wanted to see you and I can't wait to share with you all of the

wonderful things that are happening in my life " . She asked me if she could

call me back later this weekend. I reluctantly agreed because I didn't want

to get into a big discussion with her while I had DD in the car with me. I

just wanted to end the call and be done with it. But, it was not to be

because before I could say, " Well, gotta go now " , she blurted out that she

wanted to pick DD up next weekend for her to spend the night with her and

then take her shopping the next day. She pressured me for an answer right

away, (another favorite tactic) hoping that I would say " yes " before I had a

chance to even think about it. But, I didn't fall for that one. Instead, I

told her that DH and I would have to discuss it, and I would have to let her

know.

DH and I decided some time back that we are not comfortable with DD spending

unsupervised time with nada, and we also decided that DD spending the night

was totally off limits at least for the time being. Again, I put her off

because I really didn't want to get into that discussion with her while I

was driving and with DD in the back seat.

When I finally got off of the phone with her, I was so upset and angry I was

literally shaking. Luckily, my DD did not notice. I dropped her off at her

art lesson and then called DH at work. He could tell I was upset and kept

trying to tell me to calm down. I got upset with HIM because he kinda

invalidated my feelings. I don't remember his exact words, but basically he

didn't see why I was so angry over her calling because it " wasn't a big

deal " - so she called, so what? I defended myself by saying, " but she

violated my boundary! " Then he said something like, " well, not really

because you never explained it to her " . Then he added, " and she did give you

some space, even if it was only a week. You didn't tell her how long you

needed it. " True, I didn't go into details about what I meant by needing

some " space " . I didn't define " space " for her. I didn't put a time limit on

it or any conditions on it like, " don't call, don't e-mail, don't come by my

house " , or anything like that. I guess I incorrectly assumed that she would

know that me asking for space would mean her leaving me the HELL alone for a

while. What was I thinking? Since when can you assume that BP's understand

ANYTHING about boundaries or anyone else's needs except for their own?

So now I'm stuck. I feel like I royally screwed up, but I'm new at this

boundary thing. I didn't grow up knowing what boundaries were, much less

that I actually had a RIGHT and an obligation to myself to set them. Now

I've gone and gotten into a situation where I feel like I have to have

another conversation with her to restate my need to be left alone for a

while, and NO I don't have to tell her why or how long - which she is not

going to take well. Plus, I have the added stress of having to tell her that

DD cannot spend the night with her, which she is also not going to

understand or be happy about. I'm not afraid of her anger, I think maybe

it's more about guilt than anything. It's so much easier to set boundaries

and stick to them when she's acting like a total bitch. Why does she have to

be so F***ING NICE to me all of a sudden???? Am I wrong???

March 25, 2011

As Doug says, " Be gentle with yourself. " You got ambushed. You weren't

mentally or emotionally prepared to deal with a nada ambush.

I suggest you use this as a learning experience.

Although its true that you didn't clarify how long your " time out " needed to be

or what the rules are RE phoning, texting, etc. that's OK, its something to

take into consideration for the future. On the other hand you were strong

enough to not automatically say " OK " when nada wanted your daughter to spend the

night and go shopping. Good for you for holding your ground there!

I suggest practicing, like with role-playing with a friend or your therapist,

how you would handle an ambush call in the future.

" I can't talk to you now, mother, I'm driving / this isn't a good time. I have

to hang up now, 'bye. "

" I'm sorry mom but I'm not ready to resume contact with you. You surprised me

when I was driving, and I'm not used to being assertive with you. I need to

tell you that Husband and I talked it over and decided not to let Daughter do

the sleep-over with you. I'll let you know when it would be a good time for

Husband to bring her over to see you for a couple of hours, and if that's a

convenient time for you, then, you can have a visit with her and Husband.

That's the best I can do for now. "

That sort of thing.

I don't see anything wrong with saying things like, " I'm sorry, but on

reconsidering this / now that I've had some time to think about this, I don't

think its a good idea. "

You don't have to be perfect. What, nobody on the whole planet ever changed her

mind about anything before? Stuff happens. You're new at being assertive.

So, please don't be too hard on yourself (or your husband). This isn't easy to

get used to (being assertive, setting boundaries), but I think you're doing

well.

And yes, like you I have experienced the " cycle of domestic abuse " (in a way)

with my nada, over and over, pretty much my whole life. The volcanic blow up

with nada spewing toxic fumes of verbal abuse, then the remorse/apology, promise

to not do that again, then the " honeymoon period " where she is uber-sweet, then

the gradual build-up of irritation, criticism, complaining, picking at me or

spoiling for a fight, then the volcanic eruption again. There are variations.

Sometimes there is no warning and she'll just blow, trigger into a rage for

little or no apparent reason. Sometimes there is no remorse or apology or

promise, and she acts like nothing just happened; she may even be cheerful and

perky after a rage. So, yes, I know what you mean by the over-the-top niceness.

I don't trust it, and stopped trusting it decades ago.

-Annie

>

> Ok, I'm extremely upset right now, so this may sound like a rambling rant, but