standardized testing

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 5:34:55 PM Central Daylight Time,

dillon@... writes:

> I have a question. Next week in school starts the standardized

> testing. According to what I've been told will be taking

> this test too. The testing is going to be verbal and the aide will

> be darkening in the circles in response to his answers. I've read

> that this testing can be a good thing in regards to holding schools

> accountable for our children's education. What do you guys think?

> Barb Dillon mom to (8ds) and Tyler 5 (nds)

HI

Sara just finished her TCap test here in TN and yes I do agree this will put

accountability on the Reg Ed teacher (Sara's freaked when she found out Sara

was taking this test lol). She had modifications like an aide to help her but

all in all it went great. She loved bubbling the test and never gave her aide

a problem lol really this is the only week she's had this year where she got

a happy faces all week

Kathy mom to Sara 9..............Heehee wait till she finds out she can tree

it lol

[Guest guest]

Hi,

has to take all the standardized tests. On the IEP it says what she

has to get and she doesnt have to really take them because they dont count

for her. And the class spends countless hours on test preparation and I

think it totally stresses her and me out. But, since all special needs kids

are supposed to be held accountable to the standards, but with their

modifications, I guess having them take the tests are OK.

Like she will be taking the math soon and shes in 4th grade but does 2nd

grade math? What sense does that make to have her take the 4th grade test???

But she'll do the best she can and I try not to put too much emphasis on it.

As a teacher, all the special needs kids have to take the tests. The only

ones who are exempt are LEP ( Limited English Proficiency). The special

needs kids have testing modifications- whether it's time and a half or

usually in a smaller group like with the resource teacher.

Well, I think standardized test are here to stay, whether we like them or not!

[Guest guest]

We've lived in Indiana & now Ohio....in both states, Kali has had a waiver

from taking the state standardized tests. It's always been a given that she

would not participate.

The states do not have a separate test for children with spec needs.....so

how can they be held accountable for the material, when it is doubtful ( to

say the VERY least ) that she would ever be proficient enough to score a

passing grade?

The only testing that would even be reasonable for Kali to take IMHO would be

a test of her progress....of what has been accomplished thru her IEP.

Carry on,

~Sandy O.

[Guest guest]

Maverick is exempt from the Stanford tests...they are doing them this week.

During that hour he is going to a kindergarten class to be a " Teachers

Assistant. " The kindergarten was his 1st grade teacher so they'll have fun.

He will take the Aims A test which is the sp ed version of the controversial

Aims test here in AZ.

He will do the DAPS... District assesment...but at the K or 1st grade level.

We use the results of the DAPS for his IEP goals.

[Guest guest]

Mav is exempt because he is a sp ed student. It is discussed at his IEP and

we all feel that it wouldn't be beneficial to him to participate. There is a

section on his IEP that addresses this.

[Guest guest]

Why is Maverick exempt? I was told Caty had to take them.

----------

From: Michdock@...

GWhiz@...;

Subject: Re: Standardized Testing

Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:02 PM

Maverick is exempt from the Stanford tests...they are doing them this week.

During that hour he is going to a kindergarten class to be a " Teachers

Assistant. " The kindergarten was his 1st grade teacher so they'll have

fun.

He will take the Aims A test which is the sp ed version of the

controversial

Aims test here in AZ.

He will do the DAPS... District assesment...but at the K or 1st grade

level.

We use the results of the DAPS for his IEP goals.

[Guest guest]

Here in VA, when standardized testing (assessments) takes place for students

without disabilities, IEP teams are to have addressed what assessments will

take place for the special ed students. EVERYONE gets assessed at the same

time, it is just a matter of what assessments are done. If you do not

participate in the standarized testing, your IEP team was to determine what

assessment you will have take place. Schools should measure the progress of

ALL students.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/02/2001 7:03:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

blat@... writes:

<< For me, there is no need for the portfolio. I'd rather his

teachers be able to spend their time teaching him. >>

The schools will be held accountable for the scores of the VAAP just as they

would for SOL scores. The purpose of this " alternate assessment " is to

measure the progress of the child. No longer are special ed students " exempt "

from assessments, no longer will no one monitor their progress or lack of it.

Schools will have to demonstrate that special education students are

receiving an appropriate education.It is my understanding from the workshops

I have attended that the goals selected come from the IEP, they do not have

to mirror SOL or regular ed goals but they would like to see an integration

of those some of the IEP goals. But the goals have to be of a particular

type, such as Language, Math, etc. There is also a vehicle for parental

input (parental validation letter) in the portfolio (actually, the technical

term is Collection of Evidence) It is a pretty basic simplistic plan to

select four goals, have evidence of work for each goal from four grading

periods, an example of the student's schedule and knowledge of schedule, plus

a few additional pieces of evidence, teacher input, parental input, etc. So

if the language goal is improving spelling skills, four spelling tests, one

from each grading period, are included in the collection, not really a time

consuming difficult feat for teachers to perform! The creativity comes with

how teachers present their evidence of progress of the student. Some are

videotaping kids using communication boards, going to their classes, etc.

Some have asked parents to send in pictures of community activities to

include, etc. It sounds to me from what I have heard that many teachers are

very involved in putting their best foot forward. I think this method will

open up to the VDOE exactly what is going on in classrooms all over the state

and I welcome the opportunity for VDOE to actually take an interest in what

is going on in those classrooms!! I see this as a way to raise the bar for

the quality of education our students will receive. BTW, Virginia Department

of Education expects no more than 2% of its' special ed students to use the

VAAP.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/02/2001 12:02:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

dlneff@... writes:

<< Why is Maverick exempt? I was told Caty had to take them. >>

IDEA Sec. 300.138(a), which sets forth a presumption that children with

disabiities will be included in general State and district-wide assessment

programs, and provided with appropriate accommodations if necessary, Sec.

300.347 (a) (5) requires that the IEP for each student with a disabiity

include: " (i) a statement of any individual modifications in the

administration of State or district-wide assessments of student achieveemnet

that are neede in order for the child to participate in the assessment; and

(ii) if the IEP team determines that the chid WILL NOT participate in a

particular State or district-wide assessment of student achievement ( or part

of an assessment of student achievement), a statement of (A) Why that

assesment is not appropriate for the child; and ( HOW THE CHILD WILL BE

ASSESSED. "

(The capital letters above are mine for emphasis) Your child does not have

to participate in the assessments but your IEP team has to determine if your

child will or will not participate, if not, then why not, and how the child

will then be assessed. EVERYBODY gets assessed at the same time, so they can

MEASURE EVERYBODY's progress!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2001 6:03:25 AM Central Daylight Time, blat@...

writes:

> VA has started an " alternative assessment " program for students that

> don't take the state's standardized test for its Standards of Learning

> objectives. It consists of a portfolio that contains samples of the

>

Ah the old Profiles of learning under a different name, huh? Here in MN they

8th graders have to pass the Basic Skills tests to get a dipolma. It's

really not that hard of a test, just 8th grade level reading and math skilles

that the young people will need out in the real world. and they have 4 yrs

to pass it, and most do, in fact the teachers can tell you which ones will

not.

But on top of the basic skill test, which my graduating senior had to take

(her class was also the first one to have to take the writing proficiency

test in 10th grade to) next years class has to complete The Profiles of

LEarning. I 've seen some of the required stuff and they could just leave

half of the crap out. Yes I do understand that a couple of students may

still need to follow exact plans when writing a term paper in a 10th grade

English class but most have figured it out and find having to do all that

stuff is a waste of time, the fact that they can't even pass the paper unless

all steps are checked in order bascially means that the paper itself doesn't

mean crap. And believe me the way they're written in our school they contain

alot of unnecessary steps. At least unnecessary for the majority of the

students.

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/02/2001 5:15:06 AM US Mountain Standard Time, Wildwards

writes:

<< but your IEP team has to determine if your child will or will not

participate, if not, then why not, and how the child will then be assessed.

>>

Right, and here we have the DAPS.... our district assessment plan that all

children participate in and Maverick participates it. I really like our

DAPS, they are explicit and I feel accurately measure what the child needs to

work on and helps direct us as a team what he needs to work on next, or where

there might be gaps.

Also, here in AZ we have another test called the AIMS test that ALL children

have to take. They have a separate one for the kids who are in sp ed

services. But ALL children do take it.

[Guest guest]

VA has started an " alternative assessment " program for students that

don't take the state's standardized test for its Standards of Learning

objectives. It consists of a portfolio that contains samples of the

student's work for each of his IEP objectives.

The IEP objectives must be written to parallel the general curriculum.

As you can imagine, sometimes a lot of " creativity " is involved to make

things look like they meet the legal criteria.

With all the hoops the teaching staff must go through to write the

objectives and all the time involved in compiling the portfolio, I'm

somewhat skeptical. as to whether this process actually works to the

benefit of the student. I know what my son can and can't do, and I monitor

his work through items he brings home and good communication with his

teachers. For me, there is no need for the portfolio. I'd rather his

teachers be able to spend their time teaching him.

Bev

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/02/2001 9:33:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

<< Yes I do understand that a couple of students may

still need to follow exact plans when writing a term paper in a 10th grade

English class but most have figured it out and find having to do all that

stuff is a waste of time, the fact that they can't even pass the paper

unless

all steps are checked in order bascially means that the paper itself doesn't

mean crap. >>

It's interesting to discuss writing skills of kids today because I see a big

gap in the quality of papers I read from kids I know and samples that were

displayed at school and my contemporaries when we were in school. We have

discussed this and one of the biggest factors we see for the deficiency in

today's students is the lack of following the steps we were forced to do. I

had to turn in rough drafts, notecards and outlines with all my papers,

points off if I didn't!! I think that trained me to think a certain way and

helped point out my poor efforts in a way that forced me to think about how

to correct them.

Kids today do not go through the processes we did for their final result and

I think it shows in the quality of work they produce. My son HATES for me to

review and edit his work and tells me all the time I am pickier than ANY of

his teachers!! When he lets me, he edits one copy while I edit another, then

we compare the red pen notes! That way I hope he is learning from my

comments and will improve with each paper he writes.

BTW, in VA we had a mandatory test taken at 6th grade, the Literacy Passport

Test. Basic skills level for sixth grade. If you did not pass, you did not

get a diploma. That has now been replaced with the much more extensive,

difficult SOLs, which are given at certain grade levels and in high school

for certain courses. If you do not pass the class and pass the SOL test for

that class, you will not receive certified credit for the class and it will

not count towards required graduation credits. Quite possible for a child to

pass a class but not the SOL test, therefore not get credit!!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/01 6:11:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, linman42@...

writes:

> But, since all special needs kids

> are supposed to be held accountable to the standards, but with their

>

We have simply refused permission for all standardized testing on Sheila's

IEP (we live in NY state) and she has not had to take any of them, including

the 4th and 8th grade testing which has become such a big deal in NY.

nancy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/01 11:27:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

wildwards@... writes:

> . We have

> discussed this and one of the biggest factors we see for the deficiency in

> today's students is the lack of following the steps we were forced to do.

> I

> had to turn in rough drafts, notecards and outlines with all my papers,

> points off if I didn't!! I think that trained me to think a certain way

> and

> helped point out my poor efforts in a way that forced me to think about how

>

Our school district still does this. In fact, Colleen, my 4th grader, just

did a paper and had to go through all these steps. This is the first time a

4th grader had to do this. In the past the first time students had to go

through all these steps was in 5th grade, but this past year 6th grade was

moved up to the middle school, so, expectations got shifted down a grade.

was so quick to point out to Colleen that making out the note cards

first would really help her. LOL

nancy

[Guest guest]

We have SAT's in the UK for all kids (mainstream anyway) at 7, 11, 13, 16.

Last year I was told that Tim would be disapplied, ie not have to take them.

this is becoz he has a statement of SEN and therefore doesn't have to take

them. Also it is becoz his results will pull down the school acheivement

levels. All schools are running a constant battle to acheive better and

better results while at the same time being told they have to include kids

with SEN of all types. Unfortunately the " league " tables don't reflect the

acheivements of the progress of the kids with SEN so if (like our school)

you have a lot of kids with SEN and travellers then the results are

artificially low and parents looking at them, withot the info on what level

of SEN the kids have and the relative progress they have made, often decide

not to send their kids to the school. This has a knock on effect becoz the

school is funded by the number of pupils it has, less pupils, less money but

same running costs. Some schols get 100% acheivement at key stage 1 or 2,

ie all kids acheiveing the expected average or better according to the

governments idea of average. Parents like schools like this. Personally

tho I have to ask where are their kids with SEN? If, and its a big IF, they

have several children at stages 1-5 of the SEN register and they still get

100% acheivement then they have good reason to boast. But if they have no

children with SEn then frankly any school should be able to acheive 100% at

the average level and above. the tests are, INMO, a total waste of time of

money. Teachers know where the kids are, they keep copious records on every

childs acheivement that inspectors have access to, why they have to put

pressure on the kids to perform well at SAT's, particularly at 7 and 11

years old is quite beyond me. And believe me, the kids are pressured. tims

classes are streamed this year becoz we have to raise ou standards becoz

last year was a bad year. He's 7 years old. wheres the inclusion in a

class of that age group when they streamed to meet government expectations.

How can the government keep talking about inclusion when it demands higher

and higher acheivement and puts financial pressures and incentives on

schools to acheive?

Anyway, the point of the post originally was to say that I insisted on Tim

taking the tests even tho I know his results are not being recorded becoz he

is part of the class and he is bright enough to realise that he is not doing

the same things everyone else is. besides I was interested in how well he

does, even tho I object to the tests!! (talk abut contrary!) So far he is

getting " W " which is working towards level 1 which is a useless meaningless

mark. On his IEP he works towards the P scales which is " W " broken down

into smaller parts and is a much more useful guide to progress, some kids

stay at " W " all their school lives, but with 8 steps to the P scales at

least they can be seen to progess over time. Tim nearly got a level 1 for

his reading test but fell down on the comprehension, partly becoz he didn't

understand some of te questions, but also partly becoz his teacher does not

understand his speech and doesn't seem to think that one word answers mean

he understands. She hasn't got the knack of digging for more. for instance

the other day he looked at a picture and said smash window. so I asked what

smashed the window, ball window he said. So I asked what happened, why did

the ball smash the window. Dad ball he said. so I asked what did dad do?

dad kick ball smass window he said. So he DID understand, but it took a lot

of direct questions to get the answer. To simply ask what happened and only

accept the first answer is not (IMHO) really testing his comprehension. And

to equate simple language with lack of understanding is to also

underestimate him. But I have rambled enough. Suffice to say Tims scores

on his reading SAt's tho only high enough for a " W " were considerable higher

than 5 other SEN kids (without staements) in his year group, all of whom

will also get a meaningless " W " mark, only their results will be published!

And had it been reading alone, not comprehension as well he would have got a

good level 1 and maybe a low level 2.

Sue Wong

rambling in the UK

[Guest guest]

<< Well, I've been lied to again.........

They've all ready started them this year, >>

File a complaint.

[Guest guest]

has always been exempt. NO they do not have to take them. They

have to have testing done (evaluating) with the same frequency that they do

them for typical kids. That means that they can do an individualized

achievement test (such as the Woodcock-) for Caty and not force her

through those blasted standardized tests.

Elaine

Re: Standardized Testing

> Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:02 PM

>

> Maverick is exempt from the Stanford tests...they are doing them this

week.

>

> During that hour he is going to a kindergarten class to be a " Teachers

> Assistant. " The kindergarten was his 1st grade teacher so they'll have

> fun.

> He will take the Aims A test which is the sp ed version of the

> controversial

> Aims test here in AZ.

> He will do the DAPS... District assesment...but at the K or 1st grade

> level.

> We use the results of the DAPS for his IEP goals.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I've been lied to again........that's all my county knows how to do.

They've all ready started them this year, at least I got every modification

possible......sign language, grade level lower, an adult to fill in the

bubble, more time, etc.

I hate Wetzel County

----------

> From: Wildwards@...

> dlneff@...; GWhiz@...; ;

Michdock@...

> Subject: Re: Standardized Testing

> Date: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:15 AM

>

> In a message dated 04/02/2001 12:02:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dlneff@... writes:

>

> << Why is Maverick exempt? I was told Caty had to take them. >>

>

> IDEA Sec. 300.138(a), which sets forth a presumption that children with

> disabiities will be included in general State and district-wide

assessment

> programs, and provided with appropriate accommodations if necessary, Sec.

> 300.347 (a) (5) requires that the IEP for each student with a disabiity

> include: " (i) a statement of any individual modifications in the

> administration of State or district-wide assessments of student

achieveemnet

> that are neede in order for the child to participate in the assessment;

and

> (ii) if the IEP team determines that the chid WILL NOT participate in a

> particular State or district-wide assessment of student achievement ( or

part

> of an assessment of student achievement), a statement of (A) Why that

> assesment is not appropriate for the child; and ( HOW THE CHILD WILL BE

> ASSESSED. "

>

> (The capital letters above are mine for emphasis) Your child does not

have

> to participate in the assessments but your IEP team has to determine if

your

> child will or will not participate, if not, then why not, and how the

child

> will then be assessed. EVERYBODY gets assessed at the same time, so they

can

> MEASURE EVERYBODY's progress!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/02/2001 9:28:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Bonoratoe001@... writes:

<< has always been exempt >>

No, no Elaine!! is merely assessed in a non-standard manner that

provides more insight into his capabilities! ;-)

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/3/01 10:16:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

macfamily38@... writes:

> I was told recently that they can no longer be exempt from testing also.

> That the district wants to get the " real " picture about what ALL the kids

But did you get this info from your school district or your state ed dept? We

were also told no child could be exempt and my response was 'wanna bet'?

Sheila is still exempt. I'm the parent and I say they are not useful and

appropriate measures of her knowledge and she will not waste her time taking

them.

nancy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/3/01 1:13:17 PM Central Daylight Time,

sbntwong@... writes:

> understands. She hasn't got the knack of digging for more. for instance

> the other day he looked at a picture and said smash window. so I asked what

> smashed the window, ball window he said. So I asked what happened, why did

> the ball smash the window. Dad ball he said. so I asked what did dad do?

> dad kick ball smass window he said. So he DID understand, but it took a lot

> of direct questions to get the answer. To simply ask what happened and only

> accept the first answer is not (IMHO) really testing his comprehension. And

> to equate simple language with lack of understanding is to also

> underestimate him. But I have rambled enough. Suffice to say Tims scores

>

We had some of these problems in school too. One teacher told me that

altho read well it was without comprehension. Then I found she was

asking him questions that required him to formulate a longer answer and he

would say he didn't know. When I worked with him I gave him multiple choice

or true false questions and he did fine. Like Tim, the problem was in orally

giving an answer, not that he didn't know. I also realized that when he

read something funny he laughed, and I thought that must mean he understood.

Again, the problem is the teacher, not the student.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/01 1:26:16 AM, macfamily38@... writes:

>> I was told recently that they can no longer be exempt from testing also.

>> That the district wants to get the " real " picture about what ALL the

>kids

>But did you get this info from your school district or your state ed dept?

>We were also told no child could be exempt and my response was 'wanna bet'?

>Sheila is still exempt. I'm the parent and I say they are not useful and

>appropriate measures of her knowledge and she will not waste her time taking

>them.

right on !

Federal Register/Vol.64. No 48/Friday, March 12, 1999/Rules and Regulations

Participation in State or District-Wide assessments of Student Achievement:

" Consistent with 300.138(a), which sets forth a presumption that children

with disabilities will be included in general State and district-wide

assessment programs, and provided with appropriate accommodations if

necessary, 300.347(a)(5) requires that the IEP for each student with a

disability include: (i)a statement of any individual modifications in the

administration of State or district-wide assessments of student achievement

that are needed in order for the child to participate in the assessment; and

(ii) if the IEP team determines that the child will not participate in a

particular State or district-wide assessment of student achievement (or part

of an assessment of student achievement, a statement of - (A) Why that

assessment is not appropriate for the child; and ( how the child will be

assessed. "

State laws cannot supersede Federal law. IDEA says that if the team

determines that the state test is not appropriate then the child does not

have to take it. What you do need though is to determine by what means you

will assess. This does not have to be a test, it can be one or a combination

of; the students classroom work, classroom tests, progress reports from the

IEP goals or whatever else the team feels is satisfactory.

Green

Mom to /18/ds <--exempt!

[Guest guest]

I meant that he has NEVER had to take the California or Iowa Achievement

Test that is administered to every poor little kid in school in the 4th and

8th grade (or so) . The school systems refer to this as exempt. I have

never believed that 's schools had any evaluation techniques and

therefore had no accountability when they didn't teach. They do the

Woodcock- when I insist.

Elaine

Re: Standardized Testing

> In a message dated 04/02/2001 9:28:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> Bonoratoe001@... writes:

>

> << has always been exempt >>

>

> No, no Elaine!! is merely assessed in a non-standard manner that

> provides more insight into his capabilities! ;-)

>

> Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/2001 8:27:08 PM Central Daylight Time,

Bonoratoe001@... writes:

>

>

> I meant that he has NEVER had to take the California or Iowa Achievement

> Test that is administered to every poor little kid in school in the 4th and

> 8th grade (or so) .

Here they do the Iowa basics every year. Not sure about the state testing

because is exempt.

Joy