RE: ...muscle pain is back

[Guest guest]

Last time I did the saliva test, was late Sept...and it said I was in

stage 4 or 5.

I want to repeat soon to see if I've gotten worse.

I feel I've gotten worse from the supplements, but how the heck do

you tell. Why would the doc say to retest the saliva being on the

supplements, maybe he wants to see what they are doing for me, while

on them?

huh? Im so frustrated, and just want some relief.

Also...how do you help the adreniline rush??

> Most of those are good things but the problem is without knowing

the state

> of your adrenals in advance your really don't know if it is helping

or

> hurting. The " Adrenal Concentrate (Bovine) " you don't really know

what is in

> there, how much cortisol or whatever. Bovine also doesn't mimic the

human

> body the way porcine does (Armour is from porcine too). If you do

the

> saliva test, I would get off that for 2 weeks before and also get

off the

> licorice if you want to get more accurate results.

>

> Yes, your symptoms could get worse while on them. That is why you

really

> need to do the saliva test and see where you are at to know what is

really

> going on with the adrenals.

>

> Cheri

> RE: muscle pain is back

>

>

> THe only thing I take right now is Synthroid 75mcg (Im waiting to

start

> armour after repeating the saliva test to see if my adrenals have

helped).

> And Adren-All vitamins...made by Ortho Molecular Products.

> They contain....

> Vit A

> Vit C

> Vit E

> Niacin USP

> Vit b6

> Vit b12

> Pantothenic Acid

> Adrenal Concentrate (Bovine)

> Eleuthero (siberian ginseng) root extract

> Rhodiola Rosea Root Extract

> Schizandra Berry Extract

> Licorice Root Extract

>

> This is all I take, for the moment.

> Weird huh?

> Do you think these could be hurting me? or helping and Im not

getting

> quite enough of them? Im going to repeat the saliva test when funds

come in,

> doc said to repeat it when on the supplements.

> ADreniline rush? How can I fix it, and make it not as intense?

what could

> be causing this?

> Some say the muscle pains could be hypoT symtoms? I think its

somehting to

> do with these supplements, I've gotten worse since I began them....

> Please advise, thanks, feel free to email me thyroidsupport@...,

> these forums are so confusing, I cant always get back to my orginal

message

> when Im getting tons of emails in my inbox a day.

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Most of those are good things but the problem is without knowing the state

of your adrenals in advance your really don't know if it is helping or

hurting. The " Adrenal Concentrate (Bovine) " you don't really know what is in

there, how much cortisol or whatever. Bovine also doesn't mimic the human

body the way porcine does (Armour is from porcine too). If you do the

saliva test, I would get off that for 2 weeks before and also get off the

licorice if you want to get more accurate results.

Yes, your symptoms could get worse while on them. That is why you really

need to do the saliva test and see where you are at to know what is really

going on with the adrenals.

Cheri

RE: muscle pain is back

THe only thing I take right now is Synthroid 75mcg (Im waiting to start

armour after repeating the saliva test to see if my adrenals have helped).

And Adren-All vitamins...made by Ortho Molecular Products.

They contain....

Vit A

Vit C

Vit E

Niacin USP

Vit b6

Vit b12

Pantothenic Acid

Adrenal Concentrate (Bovine)

Eleuthero (siberian ginseng) root extract

Rhodiola Rosea Root Extract

Schizandra Berry Extract

Licorice Root Extract

This is all I take, for the moment.

Weird huh?

Do you think these could be hurting me? or helping and Im not getting

quite enough of them? Im going to repeat the saliva test when funds come in,

doc said to repeat it when on the supplements.

ADreniline rush? How can I fix it, and make it not as intense? what could

be causing this?

Some say the muscle pains could be hypoT symtoms? I think its somehting to

do with these supplements, I've gotten worse since I began them....

Please advise, thanks, feel free to email me thyroidsupport@...,

these forums are so confusing, I cant always get back to my orginal message

when Im getting tons of emails in my inbox a day.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

>>I feel I've gotten worse from the supplements, but how the heck do

you tell. Why would the doc say to retest the saliva being on the

supplements, maybe he wants to see what they are doing for me, while

on them?

huh? Im so frustrated, and just want some relief.

Also...how do you help the adreniline rush??<<

If you have taken or increased thyroid wihtotu PROPER adrenal suppoort it is

likely your adrenals HAVE gotten worse. MOST doctors do nto have a clue about

testign cortisol! They do nto understand the feedback loop and the fact that it

responds differently to oral meds than to our own cortisol. The adrenaline can

only be stopped by taking enough cortisol.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Bovine also doesn't mimic the human body the way porcine does (Armour

is from porcine too). > -----

Really? Is that proven? Why aren't all glandulars etc porcine then I

wonder?

[Guest guest]

I havent changed my thyroid dose at all. I've been on synthroid 75mcg

forever, am waiting to start armour until adrenals are better.

It's gotta be something in the supplements, the question is...do I

take more of them, or stop them completely for a while? I dont want

withdrawl symptoms...

Thanks

>

> >>I feel I've gotten worse from the supplements, but how the heck

do

> you tell. Why would the doc say to retest the saliva being on the

> supplements, maybe he wants to see what they are doing for me,

while

> on them?

> huh? Im so frustrated, and just want some relief.

> Also...how do you help the adreniline rush??<<

>

> If you have taken or increased thyroid wihtotu PROPER adrenal

suppoort it is likely your adrenals HAVE gotten worse. MOST doctors

do nto have a clue about testign cortisol! They do nto understand the

feedback loop and the fact that it responds differently to oral meds

than to our own cortisol. The adrenaline can only be stopped by

taking enough cortisol.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I think you are probably getting worse because you need cortisol in

the form of HC or Isocort and lack of cortisol will cause adrenaline rush.

Not sure the thoughts on your doctor but do you do temperature graphing

three times a day? Any reason you haven't tried at least Isocort?

The licorice helps aldosterone issues but I don't believe it is enough to

help cortisol deficiency. I took the things you are taking and they seemed

to help for awhile then I got worse. It took me a long time to figure out I

needed cortisol.

Where was your cortisol the lowest (i.e. " depressed " ) on your last tests?

Can you post your last test results?

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

Last time I did the saliva test, was late Sept...and it said I was in

stage 4 or 5.

I want to repeat soon to see if I've gotten worse.

I feel I've gotten worse from the supplements, but how the heck do

you tell. Why would the doc say to retest the saliva being on the

supplements, maybe he wants to see what they are doing for me, while

on them?

huh? Im so frustrated, and just want some relief.

Also...how do you help the adreniline rush??

.

[Guest guest]

I would say it is from the stress of haivng to convert all your T3 from

the T4 meds. THAT alone is a stress on the adrenals to not have any

direct T3 in the system, btu it would not be wise to start anything with

T3 with your adrenals pumping out adrenaline already. You should be able

to wean off these supplements pretty painlessly. I would just go slowly

and lower one at a time.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Yeah, there are studies on it which you can google and likely find. I read

them a few years ago. The reason so many use bovine is because it is a lot

cheaper to produce. That is why I was using Dr. 's formula because it

was porcine instead of bovine and organic fed pigs...but it is also a lot,

lot more expensive than most bovine. However, I have seen companies selling

bovine for a lot of $$ which I think is disgusting because it costs them

very little to produce.

That is also why Armour works much better in a lot of people versus

synthetics because of the added Ts in it and the pig thyroid is close to the

human thyroid.

Plus with pig you don't have to worry about mad cow disease.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

Bovine also doesn't mimic the human body the way porcine does (Armour

is from porcine too). > -----

Really? Is that proven? Why aren't all glandulars etc porcine then I

wonder?

.

[Guest guest]

Hey, I just noticed that with my supplements it says it contains 220mg

of adrenal concentrate (bovine)...but sicne Im only taking them once a

day, it would be 110mg that I getting.

Is this a lot? or too little?

I rememeber you saying how we cant tell how much is in them.

THanks...

[Guest guest]

Cheri-

My cortisol was

low, normal low,normal....at 4pm it was the lowest at the bottom of

the chart. They say Im in stage 4 or 5.

The supplements contain 220mg of adrenal bovine concentrate, but I've

only been taking 110mg. Is this a lot??

Ever since I started them, the muscle pains have started in every

other day or so, and the afternoon crashes seem more intense with

this HUGE inside rushy feeling late evening that lasts a few hours. I

take them between 1 and 4 each day.

>

> Well, I think you are probably getting worse because you need

cortisol in

> the form of HC or Isocort and lack of cortisol will cause

adrenaline rush.

> Not sure the thoughts on your doctor but do you do temperature

graphing

> three times a day? Any reason you haven't tried at least Isocort?

>

> The licorice helps aldosterone issues but I don't believe it is

enough to

> help cortisol deficiency. I took the things you are taking and they

seemed

> to help for awhile then I got worse. It took me a long time to

figure out I

> needed cortisol.

>

> Where was your cortisol the lowest (i.e. " depressed " ) on your last

tests?

> Can you post your last test results?

>

> Cheri

>

>

> Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

> Last time I did the saliva test, was late Sept...and it said I

was in

> stage 4 or 5.

> I want to repeat soon to see if I've gotten worse.

> I feel I've gotten worse from the supplements, but how the heck do

> you tell. Why would the doc say to retest the saliva being on the

> supplements, maybe he wants to see what they are doing for me,

while

> on them?

> huh? Im so frustrated, and just want some relief.

> Also...how do you help the adreniline rush??

>

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I only take these once a day.

How can I ween off them that way...just stop?

Then what? Try HC?

Im waiting to get my adosterone and renin drawn and to get the ATCH

Stim test....

Should i stick with the supplements until then?

they contain 220mg of adrenal concentrate bovine, I take 110mg a day

then only.

THanks

>

> I would say it is from the stress of haivng to convert all your T3

from

> the T4 meds. THAT alone is a stress on the adrenals to not have any

> direct T3 in the system, btu it would not be wise to start anything

with

> T3 with your adrenals pumping out adrenaline already. You should be

able

> to wean off these supplements pretty painlessly. I would just go

slowly

> and lower one at a time.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

O, Ok, I see.

ARG! That makes me upset. There should be a law against that.

KAtie

>

> It might be 110 mg of the concentrate, but how much cortisol is in

the

> concentrate? And what part of the adrenals is used, all, some? See,

that

> doesn't tell you enough about what your body is getting. Dr.

's at

> least lists the actual organs in there, but his doesn't give

quantities of

> cortisol, thyroid t3, t4, etc. either. So, you really don't know

what you

> are getting from the concentrate, you only know you are getting 110

mg of

> the concentrate.

>

> Cheri

> Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

> Hey, I just noticed that with my supplements it says it contains

220mg

> of adrenal concentrate (bovine)...but sicne Im only taking them

once a

> day, it would be 110mg that I getting.

> Is this a lot? or too little?

> I rememeber you saying how we cant tell how much is in them.

> THanks...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

just plain stopping them??

no weaning period??

I dont want to have withdrawals or anything?

THanks

>

> I would try stopping them for 2 weeks, seeing if you feel better,

and doing

> a new saliva lab. I really think you need Isocort or HC to get

better.

>

> Cheri

> Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

> Cheri-

> My cortisol was

> low, normal low,normal....at 4pm it was the lowest at the bottom

of

> the chart. They say Im in stage 4 or 5.

>

> The supplements contain 220mg of adrenal bovine concentrate, but

I've

> only been taking 110mg. Is this a lot??

>

> Ever since I started them, the muscle pains have started in every

> other day or so, and the afternoon crashes seem more intense with

> this HUGE inside rushy feeling late evening that lasts a few

hours. I

> take them between 1 and 4 each day.

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It might be 110 mg of the concentrate, but how much cortisol is in the

concentrate? And what part of the adrenals is used, all, some? See, that

doesn't tell you enough about what your body is getting. Dr. 's at

least lists the actual organs in there, but his doesn't give quantities of

cortisol, thyroid t3, t4, etc. either. So, you really don't know what you

are getting from the concentrate, you only know you are getting 110 mg of

the concentrate.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

Hey, I just noticed that with my supplements it says it contains 220mg

of adrenal concentrate (bovine)...but sicne Im only taking them once a

day, it would be 110mg that I getting.

Is this a lot? or too little?

I rememeber you saying how we cant tell how much is in them.

THanks...

[Guest guest]

I would try stopping them for 2 weeks, seeing if you feel better, and doing

a new saliva lab. I really think you need Isocort or HC to get better.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

Cheri-

My cortisol was

low, normal low,normal....at 4pm it was the lowest at the bottom of

the chart. They say Im in stage 4 or 5.

The supplements contain 220mg of adrenal bovine concentrate, but I've

only been taking 110mg. Is this a lot??

Ever since I started them, the muscle pains have started in every

other day or so, and the afternoon crashes seem more intense with

this HUGE inside rushy feeling late evening that lasts a few hours. I

take them between 1 and 4 each day.

.

[Guest guest]

I only take them once a day.SO it makes it hard to ramp down, they

are capsules.

Did they help you? WHen you took it so much?

KAtie

>

> Well, I would reduce dosage for a few days if you are taking a lot,

then

> ramp down further. As for the bovine specifically, 110 is very low

( I was

> on over 1000 several times a day) so I don't think you will have

withdrawal

> from 110. However, you know your body best and it is always safer

to ramp

> down slowly with anything just in case.

>

> You just have to be off the licorice and bovine concentrate

completely for

> at least 2 weeks to get the most accurate labs.

>

> Cheri

> Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

> just plain stopping them??

> no weaning period??

> I dont want to have withdrawals or anything?

> THanks

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I would reduce dosage for a few days if you are taking a lot, then

ramp down further. As for the bovine specifically, 110 is very low ( I was

on over 1000 several times a day) so I don't think you will have withdrawal

from 110. However, you know your body best and it is always safer to ramp

down slowly with anything just in case.

You just have to be off the licorice and bovine concentrate completely for

at least 2 weeks to get the most accurate labs.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

just plain stopping them??

no weaning period??

I dont want to have withdrawals or anything?

THanks

.

[Guest guest]

Val can answer on the ATCH test and whether the supplements will throw that

off as I am not as familiar with that but I would get off them before

testing with saliva.

Wait to go on HC or Isocort until you get all your test results back,

including saliva ones, because that would tell you where you are at and how

to dose. Before that you are really just guessing.

If you only take once a day, I would stop the licorice first (you need to

for your aldosterone tests anyway) and then after about 3 days go off the

bovine. The rest of your stuff I don't think it matters if you take them so

those you should be able to continue taking.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

I only take these once a day.

How can I ween off them that way...just stop?

Then what? Try HC?

Im waiting to get my adosterone and renin drawn and to get the ATCH

Stim test....

Should i stick with the supplements until then?

they contain 220mg of adrenal concentrate bovine, I take 110mg a day

then only.

THanks

>

> I would say it is from the stress of haivng to convert all your T3

from

> the T4 meds. THAT alone is a stress on the adrenals to not have any

> direct T3 in the system, btu it would not be wise to start anything

with

> T3 with your adrenals pumping out adrenaline already. You should be

able

> to wean off these supplements pretty painlessly. I would just go

slowly

> and lower one at a time.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, read my other note on stopping. Regarding if they helped me, yes,

after the first pill I notice my body temps coming up. They helped a lot for

the first year because I was at death's door at that time and then they

didn't seem to help as much...I only noticed if I missed a few days I really

got worse. Then by year three I was getting worse again so I think I needed

more adrenal support and because mine also contained thyroid, I probably

built up some T4 that I needed to get rid of that wasn't converting.

Really, I am just guessing by body reactions but since I don't know enough

about what is in the supplements I can't tell for sure how it was affecting

me on a cellular level. Plus I was taking other herbs and things to support

my thyroid and body.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

I only take them once a day.SO it makes it hard to ramp down, they

are capsules.

Did they help you? WHen you took it so much?

KAtie

.

[Guest guest]

Weird. I just don't get it.

Maybe I won't get better from these and will have to opt for a

different treatment. I have never felt better on these. I've only

been taking them a month and a half, and only the half recommended

dose. I thought about trying more, but since started them, im

progressivly getting worse.

THis is all so hard.

>

> Okay, read my other note on stopping. Regarding if they helped me,

yes,

> after the first pill I notice my body temps coming up. They helped

a lot for

> the first year because I was at death's door at that time and then

they

> didn't seem to help as much...I only noticed if I missed a few days

I really

> got worse. Then by year three I was getting worse again so I think

I needed

> more adrenal support and because mine also contained thyroid, I

probably

> built up some T4 that I needed to get rid of that wasn't converting.

>

> Really, I am just guessing by body reactions but since I don't know

enough

> about what is in the supplements I can't tell for sure how it was

affecting

> me on a cellular level. Plus I was taking other herbs and things to

support

> my thyroid and body.

>

> Cheri

> Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

>

>

> I only take them once a day.SO it makes it hard to ramp down, they

> are capsules.

> Did they help you? WHen you took it so much?

> KAtie

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>Hey, I just noticed that with my supplements it says it contains 220mg

of adrenal concentrate (bovine)...but sicne Im only taking them once a

day, it would be 110mg that I getting.

Is this a lot? or too little?

I rememeber you saying how we cant tell how much is in them.

THanks...<<

Exactly.. no way to tell how much of anything you are gettign in that,.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>I only take these once a day.

How can I ween off them that way...just stop?

Then what? Try HC?<<

Every other day for a week, thne everythird day for a week then stop. I wouod

get cortils saliva labs done before moving to HC.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

O, no...thats all the things in the Adren-All tablets I take. Thats

all in one capsule a day.

> Val can answer on the ATCH test and whether the supplements will

throw that

> off as I am not as familiar with that but I would get off them

before

> testing with saliva.

>

> Wait to go on HC or Isocort until you get all your test results

back,

> including saliva ones, because that would tell you where you are at

and how

> to dose. Before that you are really just guessing.

>

> If you only take once a day, I would stop the licorice first (you

need to

> for your aldosterone tests anyway) and then after about 3 days go

off the

> bovine. The rest of your stuff I don't think it matters if you take

them so

> those you should be able to continue taking.

>

> Cheri

>

> Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

> I only take these once a day.

> How can I ween off them that way...just stop?

> Then what? Try HC?

> Im waiting to get my adosterone and renin drawn and to get the

ATCH

> Stim test....

> Should i stick with the supplements until then?

> they contain 220mg of adrenal concentrate bovine, I take 110mg a

day

> then only.

> THanks

>

>

>

> >

> > I would say it is from the stress of haivng to convert all your

T3

> from

> > the T4 meds. THAT alone is a stress on the adrenals to not have

any

> > direct T3 in the system, btu it would not be wise to start

anything

> with

> > T3 with your adrenals pumping out adrenaline already. You

should be

> able

> > to wean off these supplements pretty painlessly. I would just go

> slowly

> > and lower one at a time.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I think you are going to have to stop the two, get tested, and will

end up on Isocort or HC treatment. I know so far I feel a lot better on

Isocort than I ever did on the adrenal glandulars.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

Weird. I just don't get it.

Maybe I won't get better from these and will have to opt for a

different treatment. I have never felt better on these. I've only

been taking them a month and a half, and only the half recommended

dose. I thought about trying more, but since started them, im

progressivly getting worse.

THis is all so hard.

.

[Guest guest]

Okay, I misunderstood. If all of that is in one capsule, then I say stop

completely. For me, it is always better to get things split versus in a

combo. That way you can take away one and test for reactions. When they are

all combined, it is really, really hard to figure out what is helping or

making you worse. Especially when it comes to adrenal and thyroid treatment.

Cheri

Re: ...muscle pain is back

>

>

> I only take these once a day.

> How can I ween off them that way...just stop?

> Then what? Try HC?

> Im waiting to get my adosterone and renin drawn and to get the

ATCH

> Stim test....

> Should i stick with the supplements until then?

> they contain 220mg of adrenal concentrate bovine, I take 110mg a

day

> then only.

> THanks

>

>

>

> >

> > I would say it is from the stress of haivng to convert all your

T3

> from

> > the T4 meds. THAT alone is a stress on the adrenals to not have

any

> > direct T3 in the system, btu it would not be wise to start

anything

> with

> > T3 with your adrenals pumping out adrenaline already. You

should be

> able

> > to wean off these supplements pretty painlessly. I would just go

> slowly

> > and lower one at a time.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>