worried 3 months after ablation

January 19, 2005

Hi there:

Ablation was performed early in October (PVI plus a couple of linear

lesions). Until three weeks ago, things were steadily improving (there were

skipped and premature beats, and once a week a short breakthrough of

something like flutter but my energy and mood barometers were rising. I

thought I made it.

Then two weeks ago, things turned badly. Almost daily I have experienced a

breakthrough with my heart racing to steady but high rates, around 125-135.

I have been using atenolol only (2 x 25mg/day). If in the past, these

episodes were relatively short (1-2 hours), this time most of them would

start a night and last 12-16 hours.

Obviously I am terribly disappointed. Many questions cross my mind, and I

would most grateful to hear from anybody who has had similar experience.

The questions that come to mind are:

1. Given that 3 months have elapsed since the ablation, a period of

time regarded as meaningful, does it all mean that the process of healing

has been completed

and we may conclude that the ablation did not achieve the expected results?

Is it possible that the heart is still healing and there might be a pleasant

surprise later?

2. It may be presumed that the healing process left a flaw or a

defect (in the linear barriers, for example) which give rise to a new

disturbance, in the form of a flutter?

The possibility of these episodes becoming longer is

frightening.

3. We have all read a great deal that in circumstances such as these,

a second " touch up " ablation may be useful or required. This raises a couple

of key questions:

a. The words " touch up " suggest a simpler and shorter procedure. Is it

really so? Or, could the second procedure be as long and as involved as the

first?

b. What are the chances of success of the second procedure? I realize

that this would depend on individual circumstances. Hence, I appeal to

those who have had similar experience or those who are familiar with similar

circumstances, to send me their views.

c. Other than a second ablation, is there any other way except to go

back to those hated medicines? In the past two days, I switched from

atenolol to sotalol. It seems that it helped some, but some of the familiar

side effects of sotalol are already felt.

Thanks for taking your time to read this note (almost SOS).I would be most

grateful for your views and suggestions.

Joe

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January 19, 2005

I also had an PVA in October and I cannot say that everything has

gone smoothly but I have learnt enough about this thing to realise

that no two cases are alike and there are no fixed rules. I am on

Sotolol which seems to work for me in those shaky moments . With the

Doctors permission I sometimes take an extra tablet to get me back in

rythmn. Maybe this could work for you too.

As far as I understand it the healing process can take upto 6 months

and in this time it is worthwhile making some sacrifice and take any

drug (even amiodorine) that can keep you in rythmm so that the

elctrical circuit can align correctly.

After 3 months I do not think you can draw a conclusion and talk

about a second ablation , I know it is difficult but try to relax

and maybe stop measuring your pulse until you feel better.

best of luck

Jon

>

> Hi there:

>

> Ablation was performed early in October (PVI plus a couple of linear

> lesions). Until three weeks ago, things were steadily improving

(there were

> skipped and premature beats, and once a week a short breakthrough of

> something like flutter but my energy and mood barometers were

rising. I

> thought I made it.

> Then two weeks ago, things turned badly. Almost daily I have

experienced a

> breakthrough with my heart racing to steady but high rates, around

125-135.

> I have been using atenolol only (2 x 25mg/day). If in the past,

these

> episodes were relatively short (1-2 hours), this time most of them

would

> start a night and last 12-16 hours.

>

> Obviously I am terribly disappointed. Many questions cross my mind,

and I

> would most grateful to hear from anybody who has had similar

experience.

> The questions that come to mind are:

>

> 1. Given that 3 months have elapsed since the ablation, a period

of

> time regarded as meaningful, does it all mean that the process of

healing

> has been completed

> and we may conclude that the ablation did not achieve the expected

results?

> Is it possible that the heart is still healing and there might be a

pleasant

> surprise later?

>

> 2. It may be presumed that the healing process left a flaw

or a

> defect (in the linear barriers, for example) which give rise to a

new

> disturbance, in the form of a flutter?

> The possibility of these episodes becoming longer is

> frightening.

>

> 3. We have all read a great deal that in circumstances such as

these,

> a second " touch up " ablation may be useful or required. This raises

a couple

> of key questions:

>

> a. The words " touch up " suggest a simpler and shorter procedure.

Is it

> really so? Or, could the second procedure be as long and as

involved as the

> first?

>

> b. What are the chances of success of the second procedure? I

realize

> that this would depend on individual circumstances. Hence, I

appeal to

> those who have had similar experience or those who are familiar

with similar

> circumstances, to send me their views.

>

> c. Other than a second ablation, is there any other way except

to go

> back to those hated medicines? In the past two days, I switched from

> atenolol to sotalol. It seems that it helped some, but some of the

familiar

> side effects of sotalol are already felt.

>

> Thanks for taking your time to read this note (almost SOS).I would

be most

> grateful for your views and suggestions.

>

> Joe

>

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System.

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>

______________________________________________________________________

>

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>

January 19, 2005

I had my ablation done in October 2004 at UCLA with the best EPs in southern

California. My doctor says heart can do crazy things after ablation, one month

after the ablation i went for a follow up, i was feeling flutter in my chest,

the EKG showed NSR, i still feel flutter once in a while & i ignore them, but

nothing close to afib symptoms (Shotness of breath, light headed etc). They did

the right ablation on me for my flutter at the same time, but they warned me

that the flutter could stay because of a scar from a surgery 10 years ago. I am

on Flacinide & metoprolol which i hope i will be out of it in few months. My EP

told me for the final result give it six months & if then no afib without meds

it will be a success. I guess the touch up is the same as the first ablation. If

you don't feel the afib, give your EP & surgen a big credit, because there is

lot of people that have gone through this & still fibbing.

Alfred

Yossi Yerushalmi wrote:

Hi there:

Ablation was performed early in October (PVI plus a couple of linear

lesions). Until three weeks ago, things were steadily improving (there were

skipped and premature beats, and once a week a short breakthrough of

something like flutter but my energy and mood barometers were rising. I

thought I made it.

Then two weeks ago, things turned badly. Almost daily I have experienced a

breakthrough with my heart racing to steady but high rates, around 125-135.

I have been using atenolol only (2 x 25mg/day). If in the past, these

episodes were relatively short (1-2 hours), this time most of them would

start a night and last 12-16 hours.

Obviously I am terribly disappointed. Many questions cross my mind, and I

would most grateful to hear from anybody who has had similar experience.

The questions that come to mind are:

1. Given that 3 months have elapsed since the ablation, a period of

time regarded as meaningful, does it all mean that the process of healing

has been completed

and we may conclude that the ablation did not achieve the expected results?

Is it possible that the heart is still healing and there might be a pleasant

surprise later?

2. It may be presumed that the healing process left a flaw or a

defect (in the linear barriers, for example) which give rise to a new

disturbance, in the form of a flutter?

The possibility of these episodes becoming longer is

frightening.

3. We have all read a great deal that in circumstances such as these,

a second " touch up " ablation may be useful or required. This raises a couple

of key questions:

a. The words " touch up " suggest a simpler and shorter procedure. Is it

really so? Or, could the second procedure be as long and as involved as the

first?

b. What are the chances of success of the second procedure? I realize

that this would depend on individual circumstances. Hence, I appeal to

those who have had similar experience or those who are familiar with similar

circumstances, to send me their views.

c. Other than a second ablation, is there any other way except to go

back to those hated medicines? In the past two days, I switched from

atenolol to sotalol. It seems that it helped some, but some of the familiar

side effects of sotalol are already felt.

Thanks for taking your time to read this note (almost SOS).I would be most

grateful for your views and suggestions.

Joe

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January 21, 2005

on Wed, 19 Jan 2005 at 10:09:48, Yossi Yerushalmi wrote

:

>I would most grateful to hear from anybody who has had similar

>experience.

Yossi,

I had to have two ablations. This is not uncommon - I think the figures

are something like 35% have to. The first one failed after 1 month

(flutter) and I was booked straight back in 2 months from the first one.

The 2nd one re-did the flutter ablation, and they found some gaps

(presumably healed too well) in the original lesions around the veins,

so those were re-done as well. In my case the 2nd one (1hr+) was much

quicker than the first (3hrs+).

So far so good, though I am troubled with ectopics that come and go -

usually suppressed OK by Flecainide in my case. Again, others I have

talked to have this experience.

Good luck, and I feel sure if you have another ablation it will finish

the job.

Those of us with successful ablations know we have had our lives given

back.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

January 21, 2005

Vicky:

Thanks. I am good and ready for a second round if necessary. In the

meantime, I am on sotalol trying to control those ectopics which some

regard as harmless but which for me are a " pain in the ... " and

precursors of worse disturbances particularly after some exertion.

Best Regards

Yossi (Joe)

Re: worried 3 months after ablation

on Wed, 19 Jan 2005 at 10:09:48, Yossi Yerushalmi wrote

:

>I would most grateful to hear from anybody who has had similar

>experience.

Yossi,

I had to have two ablations. This is not uncommon - I think the figures

are something like 35% have to. The first one failed after 1 month

(flutter) and I was booked straight back in 2 months from the first one.

The 2nd one re-did the flutter ablation, and they found some gaps

(presumably healed too well) in the original lesions around the veins,

so those were re-done as well. In my case the 2nd one (1hr+) was much

quicker than the first (3hrs+).

So far so good, though I am troubled with ectopics that come and go -

usually suppressed OK by Flecainide in my case. Again, others I have

talked to have this experience.

Good luck, and I feel sure if you have another ablation it will finish

the job.

Those of us with successful ablations know we have had our lives given

back.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

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January 30, 2005

Alfred:

Thanks for your note. I generally agree with your assessment. But both

of us are still on meds. You on Flecanide and I am on sotalol. What

would happened if we stop taking them?? I dare not try. The trouble is

that none of these meds agree with me (fatigue being the most notable

side effect). Did you have only PVI or were linear lesions also required

as in my case?

Best wishes for all,

Joe Y.

Re: worried 3 months after ablation

I had my ablation done in October 2004 at UCLA with the best EPs in

southern California. My doctor says heart can do crazy things after

ablation, one month after the ablation i went for a follow up, i was

feeling flutter in my chest, the EKG showed NSR, i still feel flutter

once in a while & i ignore them, but nothing close to afib symptoms

(Shotness of breath, light headed etc). They did the right ablation on

me for my flutter at the same time, but they warned me that the flutter

could stay because of a scar from a surgery 10 years ago. I am on

Flacinide & metoprolol which i hope i will be out of it in few months.

My EP told me for the final result give it six months & if then no afib

without meds it will be a success. I guess the touch up is the same as

the first ablation. If you don't feel the afib, give your EP & surgen a

big credit, because there is lot of people that have gone through this &

still fibbing.

Alfred

Yossi Yerushalmi wrote:

Hi there:

Ablation was performed early in October (PVI plus a couple of linear

lesions). Until three weeks ago, things were steadily improving (there

were

skipped and premature beats, and once a week a short breakthrough of

something like flutter but my energy and mood barometers were rising. I

thought I made it.

Then two weeks ago, things turned badly. Almost daily I have

experienced a

breakthrough with my heart racing to steady but high rates, around

125-135.

I have been using atenolol only (2 x 25mg/day). If in the past, these

episodes were relatively short (1-2 hours), this time most of them would

start a night and last 12-16 hours.

Obviously I am terribly disappointed. Many questions cross my mind, and

I

would most grateful to hear from anybody who has had similar experience.

The questions that come to mind are:

1. Given that 3 months have elapsed since the ablation, a period of

time regarded as meaningful, does it all mean that the process of

healing

has been completed

and we may conclude that the ablation did not achieve the expected

results?

Is it possible that the heart is still healing and there might be a

pleasant

surprise later?

2. It may be presumed that the healing process left a flaw or a

defect (in the linear barriers, for example) which give rise to a new

disturbance, in the form of a flutter?

The possibility of these episodes becoming longer is

frightening.

3. We have all read a great deal that in circumstances such as

these,

a second " touch up " ablation may be useful or required. This raises a

couple

of key questions:

a. The words " touch up " suggest a simpler and shorter procedure. Is

it

really so? Or, could the second procedure be as long and as involved as

the

first?

b. What are the chances of success of the second procedure? I

realize

that this would depend on individual circumstances. Hence, I appeal to

those who have had similar experience or those who are familiar with

similar

circumstances, to send me their views.

c. Other than a second ablation, is there any other way except to

go

back to those hated medicines? In the past two days, I switched from

atenolol to sotalol. It seems that it helped some, but some of the

familiar

side effects of sotalol are already felt.

Thanks for taking your time to read this note (almost SOS).I would be

most

grateful for your views and suggestions.

Joe

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January 31, 2005

Dear Joe: I am very pleased with the results, although i am still on Flec. but i

don't care much. I am thankfull that i am out of afib. Premature bits & once in

a while heart racing or skipping doesn't bother me much. Please do not forget

that the ablation technics are still relatively new & still far from perfect. I

had the linear (I guess) as well as PVI. I have to see my EP next week & i am

excited to hear from him.

Take it easy.