Re: **** Topper **** - 's Labs

[Guest guest]

Week TSH Free T4 Total T4 T3

(0.4 - 5.0) (0.7 - 1.85) (5.5 - 12.8)

1 10/26 14.55 1.15

10/29 18.69 1.33

2 11/4 2.86 1.92

3 11/10 ? 1.27

T4 crushed and given through G-tube to stomach

5 11/22 103.29 .89

Changed T4 to IV

8 12/6 114.42 1.18

12/8 125.00

9 12/12 67.27 1.02 7.9 102

12/15 61.00 1.04 119

10 12/19 59.30 1.42 180

11 12/26 49.69 1.19 10.6 137

15 1/23 48.04 6.23

T4 through J-tube to intestine

18 2/7 67.33 1.25

19 2/16 31.49 2.17

21 2/26 32.32 1.68 172

I'll tell you what I see.... First I have questions...

Is the T3 total or free.. .and what is the range??

The G tube to the stomach.. that also is how they get 'food' to his stomach? Is the T4 mixed with food/liquid to get it through the tube? Same question with the J-tube to the intestine...

Assuming that there were using Synthroid or a generic. Putting it into the stomach with food or into the intestine is going to reduce the efficiency at how the body can remove the sodium from the T4... if the sodium isn't pulled off the T4 can't be used by the body.

The tested a LOT... but I wonder if they realize how inaccurate their protocol is....

TSH doesn't show a change immediately after a dosage change.... And T4 doesn't build up in the tissues to affect conversion in a matter of days either... so as much as they messed with dosing procedure, the testing doesn't give an accurate picture of what is going on in his body.

I put in the weeks with the first test being week 1.. and the last test on your list being week 21

I have more questions.

Was the amount of T4 given consistent through the whole 21 weeks or were they also adjusting the amount of T4 given during that time?

See how the Total T4 goes up between week 9 and week 11? Total T4 is the total of free, bound and reverse hormone. How much gland activity does he have? If it's minimal that what we are seeing is that there is an increasing percentage of the T4 that has been given to him that is bound and unusable. Why?

Stomach contents? What are they doing in the way of calcium and iron supplementation? Are they aware that both of them bind with T4 making it unusable??

Ami, I'm not being a smart ass.... you said that the docs are stumped... I'm just trying to share what questions come to my mind... in case it jogs the problem out into the open and they will have a direction to go....

Have they run any labs since week 21, the end of February?

Do they have a specific reason for not trying natural sublingually considering the absorption problems that he's having.. .that part confuses me.. unless they don't understand natural.... (I know, I'm a pro-natural person... but in this case.... )

How was being dosed (thyroid) before they started putting it in through the tube in mid November?

Is he eating solid food, or liquid through the tubes? What is the protein source/base if it is a liquid?

Why are they not concentrating on Free T3 levels to see if he's converting? Thats the number that they need to check now.... He's taking T4 why test T4? TSH lags too far behind what the body is doing with the thyroid hormones..... what they need to see is if his body is able to convert the T4 into usable hormone, T3.... I'm confused... unless they don't get how it works, that that might be why they can't figure it out???

There is a lot of data... but not what needs to be known to figure out the answer to the puzzle..... IMHO of course.

I'll wait for answers and then star at it some more... I feel like the guy on NUMB3RS right now!! hehehehe

Topper ()

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:21:30 -0000 "amifox73" writes:

Here's everything I could dig out of 's immense lab binder sinceOctober that's hormone related.AmiTSH: 0.4 - 5.0fT4: 0.7 - 1.85TT4: 5.5 - 12.810/26 . . . TSH: 14.55 . . . fT4: 1.1510/29 . . . Parathormone (Intact): <3 . . . TSH: 18.69 . . . fT4:1.3311/4 . . . TSH: 2.86 . . . fT4: 1.9211/10 . . . TSH: ?.?? . . . fT4: 1.27Somewhere in this vicinity, his levo began being crushed and giventhrough his G-tube into his stomach. We see how well THAT goes over.11/22 . . . TSH: 103.29 . . . fT4: 0.89Obviously THAT wasn't what we want happening, so they begin IVthyroid instead.12/6 . . . TSH: 114.42 . . . fT4: 1.1812/8 . . . TSH: 125.00 . . . Beta hCG Tumor Marker <3 (<5)12/12 . . . TSH: 67.27 . . . fT4: 1.02 . . . T3: 102 ng/dL . . .TT4: 7.9 . . . Alpha-Subunit Pituitary Glyco-Protein: 0.57 (Males<50 - 0.10 - 0.55) . . . Beta hCG Tumor Marker: <3 (<5) . . .Prolactin: 20 ug/L . . . Adrenal Corticotropin: 20 pg/mL (9 am -<10 - 50 . . . midnight - <10)12/13 . . . Aldosterone: 4.4 (4.0 - 44.0) . . . Renin: 1.7 (Children6 - 10 yrs - 0.5 - 5.9)12/15 . . . TSH: 61.00 . . . fT4: 1.04 . . . T3: 11912/19 . . . TSH: 59.30 . . . fT4: 1.42 . . . T3: 18012/26 . . . TSH: 49.69 . . . fT4: 1.19 . . . T3: 137 . . . TT4: 10.61/23 . . . TSH: 48.04 . . . fT4: 6.23In this range, we begin putting his thyroid med in his tube again,though in the J-tube this time (into his intestine). Obviouslywasn't working QUITE as well as the IV version due to his lack ofproper absorbtion, but he does start coming back down. And his fT4starts coming up. Yet he's still way outside normal. It's nuts.That's all I know.2/7 . . . TSH: 67.33 . . . fT4: 1.252/16 . . . TSH: 31.49 . . . fT4: 2.172/26 . . . TSH: 32.32 . . . fT4: 1.68 . . . T3: 172

[Guest guest]

Ami

He did go to T4 IV, did he not? I hope so, as a J Tube is the worst way to

give this med. Too much interference from other things, plus, if they are

giving several meds at once, it will be virtually null and void. I don't

want to worry you any more than you are, but you need to know that I've had

this argument at work, with nurses being forced by the drug orders (time

given to give certain meds, as in all at once in a certain period of the

morning, afternoon, etc..) to push these meds all at once, depending on what

time the written order says that certain things are supposed to be given.

Investigate this and MAKE the doctor change those orders, if this is true.

In this industry, the push for time is getting terrible, and ashamed to say

that many times many of these meds ARE given at once, even with the

doctor/nurses being aware of what's given alone and what is not. Make

absolutely sure that his T4 is being given totally alone, just as when given

by mouth. As his mother and with your power of attorney, you have a RIGHT

to see those doctors' orders/instructions, particularly the orders or

anything else listed in his chart, nurses' notes, etc.... If nursing

personnel tries to say this isn't true, they're fudging, and simply don't

want you to see those orders, if they have been pushing these meds all at

once, when they're not supposed to. I know that with what's been going on

with on a bigger scale, this can somehow seem more minute, but it is

absolutely crucial to his recovery. IMO, and according to all I've read on

the sbjct, synthetic T4 cannot be translated and broken down properly at

that particular point in the intestine, where it goes in at the J Tube.

This is why giving it in this manner makes it so ridiculous. As Topper

said, the sodium molecule HAS to be pulled off of it by the strong stomach

acids, furnished in the stomach itself or else given directly IV, to be

processed with an iodine molecule being pulled off of it at cellular sites.

ly, I'm not even sure of the latter, but I do know that people get IV

push for large amts of T4, when it can't be done any other way. This is one

thing that makes SYNTHETIC T4 so " iffy " , not the natural T4 found in our

bodies or the natural animal thyroids. Are you standing by watching them

give this med everyday, or not? They are supposed to crush it, but I will

tell you that I've seen nurses fired for sticking WHOLE pills into one of

these tubes. I frankly think that they need to be taken out and beaten to a

pulp for this and lose their licensing, but I've not seen ONE lose their

whole license yet. Grrrrrrr!!!

**** Topper **** - 's Labs

> Here's everything I could dig out of 's immense lab binder since

> October that's hormone related.

>

> Ami

>

> TSH: 0.4 - 5.0

> fT4: 0.7 - 1.85

> TT4: 5.5 - 12.8

>

> 10/26 . . . TSH: 14.55 . . . fT4: 1.15

>

> 10/29 . . . Parathormone (Intact): <3 . . . TSH: 18.69 . . . fT4:

> 1.33

>

> 11/4 . . . TSH: 2.86 . . . fT4: 1.92

>

> 11/10 . . . TSH: ?.?? . . . fT4: 1.27

>

> Somewhere in this vicinity, his levo began being crushed and given

> through his G-tube into his stomach. We see how well THAT goes over.

>

> 11/22 . . . TSH: 103.29 . . . fT4: 0.89

>

> Obviously THAT wasn't what we want happening, so they begin IV

> thyroid instead.

>

> 12/6 . . . TSH: 114.42 . . . fT4: 1.18

>

> 12/8 . . . TSH: 125.00 . . . Beta hCG Tumor Marker <3 (<5)

>

> 12/12 . . . TSH: 67.27 . . . fT4: 1.02 . . . T3: 102 ng/dL . . .

> TT4: 7.9 . . . Alpha-Subunit Pituitary Glyco-Protein: 0.57 (Males

> <50 - 0.10 - 0.55) . . . Beta hCG Tumor Marker: <3 (<5) . . .

> Prolactin: 20 ug/L . . . Adrenal Corticotropin: 20 pg/mL (9 am -

> <10 - 50 . . . midnight - <10)

>

> 12/13 . . . Aldosterone: 4.4 (4.0 - 44.0) . . . Renin: 1.7 (Children

> 6 - 10 yrs - 0.5 - 5.9)

>

> 12/15 . . . TSH: 61.00 . . . fT4: 1.04 . . . T3: 119

>

> 12/19 . . . TSH: 59.30 . . . fT4: 1.42 . . . T3: 180

>

> 12/26 . . . TSH: 49.69 . . . fT4: 1.19 . . . T3: 137 . . . TT4: 10.6

>

> 1/23 . . . TSH: 48.04 . . . fT4: 6.23

>

> In this range, we begin putting his thyroid med in his tube again,

> though in the J-tube this time (into his intestine). Obviously

> wasn't working QUITE as well as the IV version due to his lack of

> proper absorbtion, but he does start coming back down. And his fT4

> starts coming up. Yet he's still way outside normal. It's nuts.

> That's all I know.

>

> 2/7 . . . TSH: 67.33 . . . fT4: 1.25

>

> 2/16 . . . TSH: 31.49 . . . fT4: 2.17

>

> 2/26 . . . TSH: 32.32 . . . fT4: 1.68 . . . T3: 172

[Guest guest]

Ami

Another big afterthought, but important one-----Has he had any antibody

tests run his whole time during this ordeal? Thoughts----Could he have

another type of antibody sitting at the site of his pituitary? Has he been

getting the same amts of T4 during this? Have you questioned the knowledge

of the medical personnel, including the doctor, about how much is supposed

to be given by IV, versus giving by mouth? IV is very direct. I know this

all seems overwhelming at this point, but very important questions.

Also, this aldosterone is very low, right at the cusp. An adrenal

substance, which is run by renin, or can be a primary defect unto itself,

possibly affecting blood pressure and some other things. Has the doctor

said anything about this?

> 12/13 . . . Aldosterone: 4.4 (4.0 - 44.0) . . . Renin: 1.7 (Children

> 6 - 10 yrs - 0.5 - 5.9)

**** Topper **** - 's Labs