Mic autism apraxia

[Guest guest]

I have been bothered by this for along time, awhile back I wrote

about Mic being ds/asd many of you wrote me back to inform well Mic

is apraxic,mis is hypotonic, mic has sever sensory desfunction mic

has sever communication problems.Mic does not play with toys allot

of self stim cant handle change.He stopped eating table food and

speaking at 2 years old. What do some of you people think make up

autism all these symptons put together.I was highly insulted at all

these people from this group telling me hes not autistic just all

the other problems.Well if some of you did some reaserch on autistim

you might find that allot of you children fit the autistic spectrum

disorder Heres a link I would love some of you who question my

doctors to read this and maybe take a look at your own children. so

here it is www.disabilitysolutions.org/pdf/3-5-6..PDF maybe some of

you will " GET IT " This has burning my stomach for along time.Thank

you for letting me vent. Laurie Drago

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurie:

I wasn't part of the thread you're referring to where people were debating

the differences between autism and apraxia, but I am sorry you found it so

frustrating. These issues are so difficult and I am sure no one meant to

insult you (or your doctors!).

I was wondering if you've been able to start any bio-medical interventions

for your son, or whether any of your doctors can help you to follow the DAN!

protocol. I belong to a couple of other lists where more if not most of the

children have the ASD diagnosis. I am constantly overwhelmed and

impressed.and often moved. by the improvements these families are seeing, in

many cases improving enough to reverse a diagnosis of autism. I have also

read that some of these therapies benefit DS kids as well.

There is one woman right now who posts regularly on the

www. list who has an ADULT son who is

severely autistic. She only recently discovered some of these biomedical

interventions and has begun to see amazing improvements in her son. One of

her posts from last week probably had hundreds of us (the enzymes group has

something like 3000 members if I have my numbers right) close to tears, it

was so inspiring. And it is amazing to hear from a mom who has been

fighting for her son for so very many years, and who has so much

experience.and after seeing so many different doctors and trying so many

different interventions.is finally finding some that are making a

difference, even at this late date in his life.

Also, you may already know about all this other stuff, but if you haven't

had a chance (and can find the time; I know most of us are scrambling for

time), I think you would really really enjoy:

Dr. Cave's - What Your Doctor may Not Tell You About Childhood

Vaccines (it covers a lot more than vaccines when it talks about autism and

toxicity and the immune system and other things)

Dr. Jacquelyn McCandless's - Children With Starving Brains

De Felice's - Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions;

also www.enzymestuff.com <http://www.enzymestuff.com/>

From everything I have read (but I am no expert) it seems that DS folks

often struggle with some very similar digestive/nutritional absorption

problems and (often undiagnosed) food allergies that ASD people do.

Have a great day!

Josie

[ ] Mic autism apraxia

I have been bothered by this for along time, awhile back I wrote

about Mic being ds/asd many of you wrote me back to inform well Mic

is apraxic,mis is hypotonic, mic has sever sensory desfunction mic

has sever communication problems.Mic does not play with toys allot

of self stim cant handle change.He stopped eating table food and

speaking at 2 years old. What do some of you people think make up

autism all these symptons put together.I was highly insulted at all

these people from this group telling me hes not autistic just all

the other problems.Well if some of you did some reaserch on autistim

you might find that allot of you children fit the autistic spectrum

disorder Heres a link I would love some of you who question my

doctors to read this and maybe take a look at your own children. so

here it is www.disabilitysolutions.org/pdf/3-5-6..PDF maybe some of

you will " GET IT " This has burning my stomach for along time.Thank

you for letting me vent. Laurie Drago

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurie,

I don't recall this discussion about Mic -my apologies.

I posted both of your messages, even though I was not sure if you

wanted both posted. You are upset that some here questioned Mic's

diagnosis of autism? You are his mom, and it's apparent you are

doing all you can for him and have taken him to numerous

neurodevelopmental professionals who confirm his diagnosis and his

treatment. You in your heart know his diagnosis and therapies are

correct. Imagine for a moment however the pain of those parents who

had a diagnosis and didn't seek second opinions as you did, and

learned years later that their child was misdiagnosed and lost

precious years of appropriate therapy -like

http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

Autism and apraxia are two unique diagnosis that can stand alone.

It is possible to have a child with " just " autism, or " just "

apraxia. Being that both autism and apraxia are multifaceted

neurologically based communication impairments however, it's rare to

only have one aspect. But, while many children with autism have

apraxia, very few children with apraxia have autism.

To clarify, there are far less

children misdiagnosed as apraxic or who actually autistic, then

those children misdiagnosed as autistic or who actually apraxic.

While there was a 4 fold increase in autism in the US, the same 10

year period showed a 30 fold rise in speech and language disorders.

http://www.cherab.org/information/geiermd.html

Due to this, there are many in this group like you who have a child

with both autism as well as apraxia and again both autism and apraxia

are multifaceted impairments. There are even a few parents in this

group such as Jeannie Buesser who have one child with apraxia (and

ADHD) and one child with autism, and many professionals who are

fully aware that this is not just possible, but probable. In my

opinion, these families who have one child with autism and one with

apraxia should be involved in clinical studies to help prevent and

treat these impairments, as well as to answer so many of the

questions raised. Such as the autism vs. apraxia question for some

children.

Many preschool apraxic children can pass all developmental

milestones on time or early outside of speech, even though there are

subtle signs. Many apraxic children present as " just " late talkers

to the untrained eye. This is not typically the case for many

children with autism. " Autism is characterized by impaired social

interaction, problems with verbal and nonverbal communication, and

unusual, repetitive, or severely limited activities and interests. "

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm

Both apraxia and autism are multifaceted communication impairments

that are neurologically based, but while apraxia is a motor planning

disorder and appropriate therapy for an apraxic child will include

intensive and appropriate speech, occupational and multisensory

therapies to help improve motor planning as well as strengthening

for those who have co existing weakness (hypotonia) or sensory

therapies for those who have DSI, therapy for a child who has a

diagnosis of autism or PDD typically involves a type of behavioral

therapy. As one parent who has one child with autism and one child

with apraxia said " there is a difference between a child who doesn't

talk, and one who wants to talk, desperately, but just can't. " And as

Jeannie said " No matter how much speech therapy I give Josh my

autistic son, it's not going to help him to talk, he needs ABA,

while no matter how much ABA therapy I give Adam my apraxic (and

ADHD) son, it's not going to help him talk, and it's going to

frustrate him more, he needs speech therapy. "

Sensory integration dysfunction (DSI) just like hypotonia are

themselves diagnosis that like apraxia and autism can stand alone as

a diagnosis, or co exist with other diagnosis. Hypotonia for

example could be a sign of/caused by

Common Causes:

Down syndrome

myasthenia gravis

Prader-Willi syndrome

Kernicterus

cerebellar ataxia, congenital

Werdnig- Hoffman

myotonic dystrophy

infant botulism

familial dysautonomia (Riley-Day syndrome)

Marfan's syndrome

muscular dystrophy

achondroplasia

trisomy 13

sepsis

Aicardi syndrome

Canavan disease

congenital hypothyroidism

hypervitaminosis D

Krabbe disease

Menkes syndrome

metachromatic leukodystrophy

methylmalonic acidemia

rickets

spinal muscular atrophy type 1

Tay-Sachs disease

vaccine reaction

http://health.allrefer.com/health/hypotonia-causes.html

And here are some possible signs of or causes of sensory integration

dysfunction:

" While research indicates that sensory integrative problems are

found in up to 70% of children who are considered learning disabled

by schools, the problems of sensory integration are not confined to

children with learning disabilities. SID transfers through all age

groups, as well as intellectual levels and socioeconomic groups.

Factors that contribute to SID include: premature birth; autism and

other developmental disorders; learning disabilities; delinquency

and substance abuse due to learning disabilities; stress-related

disorders; and brain injury. Two of the biggest contributing

conditions are autism and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

(ADHD). "

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/sensory_integration_disorder.jsp

Or say a car accident for any one of us God forbid -that too could

cause DSI

" Diagnosis:SCI (spinal cord injury)

With SCI, the spinal cord gets injured by some kind of a trauma,

resulting in sensory and/or motor deficit, autonomic dysfunction and

bladder/bowel dysfunction "

http://www.jmk.su.se/global99/access/physical/medphys.html

You are upset that anyone would question your child's autism

diagnosis, one of my bones to pick as they say is that a " late

talker " child who has sensory integration dysfunction (DSI) today

is far too frequently just autodiagnosed PDD and the parents are told that

child requires ABA. That, comes up much in this group. Those

children who are unlike Mic -misdiagnosed with autism or PDD. ABA

is appropriate if needed, but unlike speech therapy we now know it's

not a benign therapy. Only use if needed.

Diagnosis of apraxia is just that. Not " parent in denial of autism "

As you know I don't care if others disagree with what I have to say,

and I'll post criticisms personally about what I have to say. I

like everyone else am not perfect. We are all here because

either we love or care for a child with a communication impairment,

and while we are looking to help the child with care for, we take

the time to reach out to help others. Just like I was one of those

strange parents in the minority who was not upset when everyone told

me that Tanner was " Just a late talker " and that if I just left him

alone and gave him some time he would " talk just fine " I know

people told us that because they were trying in their own way to

help, with lack of knowledge of the full picture. To be upset with

what anyone posts to you here is the same thing. Nobody knows your

child like you do, and absolutely nobody can diagnose your child

over a grouplist! At the same time, I would not have a problem if

anyone considers apraxia part of the autism spectrum if they didn't

auto assume the behavioral therapies is the end all therapy that is

needed. The CDC and others would also have to change the stats of

percentages of incidence of MR in the autism spectrum. Again, the

average child with a speech and language impairment like apraxia

has -normal to above normal IQ. And it's not just stats from the

CDC -it's from autism groups as well: (and if you have been a member

for awhile you know my belief on the " students rise to the level of

expectations " theory!)

" Seventy-five to 80 percent of people with autism are mentally

retarded to some extent. Fifteen to 20 percent are considered

severely retarded, with IQs below 35.

But autism does not necessarily correspond with mental impairment.

More than 10 percent of people with autism have an average or above

average IQ. A few show exceptional intelligence. "

http://www.autisticsociety.org/dic20.html

And here is an archive I found on " apraxia or PDD " I wrote to a

parent who received the two diagnosis from the same team:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:58 pm

Subject: Re: apraxia or PDD-NOS

Hi Patti,

The two diagnosis from the same team? " Different treatment,

prognosis " is this what they said, or you are not sure? We don't

know your child, any of the history or symptoms...or even age -so

your guess is better than any of ours at this point what this

means. Actually better yet -if you want to know you'll have to ask

the professionals (MD? SLP? OT?) that gave these two diagnosis, but

I do have a few observations.

Since apraxia is one of the diagnosis and insurance is so needed to

help cover the years of intensive therapy costs if private therapy

is also done -probably whomever you took your child to either didn't

read The Late Talker book that I co wrote with neurodevelopmental MD

and Medical Director of NYC EI Marilyn Agin MD, or didn't get up to

page 87 of the book if they included both of these diagnosis on your

child's report.

The " developmental " codes which include 315.31, the code used for

developmental expressive language disorder, is under the " codes to

avoid " in our book The Late Talker -and we state " Use them at your

peril, as you may not be reimbursed. " What codes did they use for

insurance reasons?

" Some speech disorders can overlap, or be misdiagnosed. For

example, " Verbal apraxia, a disorder of central nervous system (CNS)

processing, and dysarthria, a disorder of output, are commonly

confused " , says Dr. , chief of child development at the

Chicago College of Medicine. " Experts are able to differentiate

between these two disorders by listening carefully to a child's

speech and by identifying certain physical clues " , says Dr. ,

but adds, " These disorders are poorly understood by physicians and

by a lot of speech therapists as well. " It is possible for

phonological disorders, apraxia and dysarthria to all occur together

in the same child. Speech Language Impairments, which is connected

to language based learning difficulties may also be present. And the

severity of each may vary. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/latetalkerhandout.html

Yes speech impairments can overlap and coexist together with other

disorders -however children are typically diagnosed as having a

developmental expressive language disorder when they rule out motor

deficits (apraxia is a motor planning disorder), sensory deficits

(most children with apraxia also have mild sensory deficits) and the

other multifaceted impairment of communication that most children

with apraxia have.

Sign of developmental expressive language disorder from the American

Psychiatric Association, 1994, pp. 60-61

" If Mental Retardation, a speech-motor or sensory deficit, or

environmental deprivation is present, the language difficulties are

in excess of those usually associated with these problems. "

If your child is preschool age and has symptoms of apraxia then I

understand the diagnosis of suspected apraxia. With oral apraxia

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/oralapraxia.html

the diagnosis can made as young as 18 months. Apraxia therapy won't

hurt and can help stimulate language in any late talker. What I

don't get is since most children with developmental expressive

language disorder don't have motor or sensory deficits - if your

child is nonverbal or essentially nonverbal, how did they know your

child has both diagnosis -or is your child talking?

Most of the children with apraxia also have mild (subtle) soft signs

of neurological damage even though some children can have more

severe symptoms -not as typical of this group

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/parentfriendlysoftsi

gns.html

such as mild low tone, mild motor planning issues in other

areas of the body, mild sensory issues, (and can I add to this stuff

nobody talks about yet like -problems blowing their nose on command,

late potty training and then once they finally do -constipation?!)

Children with

apraxia, a motor planning disorder, want desperately to talk -and

need to be taught how to. There is a big difference between a child

who only has severe apraxia and one who has severe autism -there

isn't as much of a difference between PDD and severe apraxia in some

ways -but for those of us in areas where there are lots of children

with both -or for parents who have more than one child who has one

of each, the difference is not hard to spot.

While most children with less severe disorders of speech can get

away with just speech therapy -most of us with apraxic children have

our children in speech and occupational therapy -as well as other

multisensory therapies to help. While the therapy for apraxia won't

hurt and most likely will benefit a child who even has just a mild

delay of speech -therapy for a child with a developmental expressive

language disorder will not be appropriate for a child with apraxia

for multiple reasons.

Even though almost all of us with apraxic children thought our

children were " just " late talkers when they are two or three -as

they grow older (and in hindsight) the symptoms are there and just

overlooked, or excused away. Like our calling Tanner " the serious

baby " because he had almost no facial expressions -ever. This is

the reason to see a neurodevelopmental MD if apraxia is suspected so

early intervention can begin. Since this came up recently I just

want to add that it's not uncommon for any child with communication

frustrations to either withdraw or lash out. You can tell the

difference of these behaviors from frustration rather than from

another underlying cause including autism by providing your child

with alternative ways to communicate and observing to see if and

when the behaviors fade or become worse. I know for my son Tanner

he was social in one on one situations and withdrew in groups which

is why during preschool years we didn't enroll him in a " normal "

preschool. Tanner even though " deprived " of normal preschool is now

hugely social with no self esteem damage which the frustration can

lead to in cases.

As parents at times with communication impairments it's important

for us to explain and/or videotape our children when not in clinical

settings where they may be stressed and " not themselves " to share

with the professionals.

My questions are:

Does your child have any soft signs?

How old is your child and how is he or she talking/communicating now?

Does your child have any social deficits? Play appropriate with

others, toys etc.

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