Re: New Labs,,,,,need help Val

[Guest guest]

>

I need your advice on what

> to do about the high T3 and find out what I may have to do about T4

> as it is at top of range. I still do not feel like I am at my

> optimal as I still have headaches and joint pain alot yet.My temps

> have been stable since Nov 24 also and seem to be good yet today.

>

Since Val's out, I'll ask a couple of questions she might need

answers to before advising you, since you need an answer quickly.

You say your temps are stable. What are the averages for the past 4

days?

Your high FT3 and FT4 could be several things: too much Armour, too

much HC causing a reverse T3 problem, too little HC causing T3 to

pool in blood, etc. So I would ask, what are your other physical

symptoms and complaints? Do you feel anxious or depressed or

nauseous or having weight problems or anything else?

Barb

[Guest guest]

> >

> I need your advice on what

> > to do about the high T3 and find out what I may have to do about

T4

> > as it is at top of range. I still do not feel like I am at my

> > optimal as I still have headaches and joint pain alot yet.My

temps

> > have been stable since Nov 24 also and seem to be good yet today.

> >

> Since Val's out, I'll ask a couple of questions she might need

> answers to before advising you, since you need an answer quickly.

>

> You say your temps are stable. What are the averages for the past

4

> days?

>

> Your high FT3 and FT4 could be several things: too much Armour,

too

> much HC causing a reverse T3 problem, too little HC causing T3 to

> pool in blood, etc. So I would ask, what are your other physical

> symptoms and complaints? Do you feel anxious or depressed or

> nauseous or having weight problems or anything else?

>

> Barb

>

Sorry didn't get back quicker, had prayer at Church.

My last temps are as follows:

Dec 2: 98.4

Dec 1: 98.5(only 1 temp today)

Nov 30: 98.2

Nov 29: 98.4

Nov 28: 98.3

My added symptoms are:

tired, need nap

light headache around eyes

Notice i feel nervous when sitting, moving feet & leg some

My joints still bother me, have pain getting up

Sometimes body aches at nite, especially neck and legs

After I got the pooled up thyroid out of my blood, I felt really good

for two weeks when started HC, then I crashed cause my tissues quit

getting hormone to them. My headaches and low back pain, neck pain,

plus getting stiff and sore again like I use to be. I do know now

what optimal feels because of that good two weeks, it did not hurt to

get up and down, didn't get sore bowling which I do each Friday

nite. But now I get get stiff and sore again while bowling again.

Do you think I should take 5mg HC before starting bowling?

Can't think of lanything else at the moment, other than I am still

tired when I first get up, do better by noon or so.

Oh the doc did a blood cortisol test also at 8am Nov 28, it was 4.3

and I had not taken HC or Armour before test.

[Guest guest]

>>Nov 28 Labs:

Free T4...1.2.....0.6-1.2

Free T3...4.4.....2.4-3.9

TSH....0.02.....0.40-5.80

Cholesterol.....178....132-240

HDL....47.....35-80

Triglicerides......195.....40-210

LDL....92.....<101<<

You have had some great improvements! But the fact that you do nto feel

optimized tells me you may be workign an on RT3 poroblem. BUT what I would try

firts is lowering HC. You may be able to lower Armoru just a tad and lower the

HC and get even better results. When T4 gets that high something is not right.

Your Free T3 is good where it is, btu that T4 tells me it is not converting

properly and that can be caused by high cortisol.

--

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[Guest guest]

>>Can't think of lanything else at the moment, other than I am still

tired when I first get up, do better by noon or so.

Oh the doc did a blood cortisol test also at 8am Nov 28, it was 4.3

and I had not taken HC or Armour before test.<<

I still think you need RT3 tested. Also lower the HC! Being tired in the AM and

your low AM cortisl is telling me it is supressed during the day and the 2.5 at

bedtime is not making it to AM to help you then. By now you should have some

reserves adn your blood levels and symptoms are nto showing that.

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[Guest guest]

>

> >>Can't think of lanything else at the moment, other than I am

still

> tired when I first get up, do better by noon or so.

> Oh the doc did a blood cortisol test also at 8am Nov 28, it was 4.3

> and I had not taken HC or Armour before test.<<

>

> I still think you need RT3 tested. Also lower the HC! Being tired

in the AM and your low AM cortisl is telling me it is supressed

during the day and the 2.5 at bedtime is not making it to AM to help

you then. By now you should have some reserves adn your blood levels

and symptoms are nto showing that.

>

> Okay I will lower HC, but where do I lower it and how much? Should

I lower the noon or 4pm one, 2.5 or 5.0? Should I leave Armour alone

for now or should I lower to 3 grains instead of 3.5???

I will ask the doc to take a RT3 test tomorrow....I will explain that

you think high T4 shows that I may have RT3 which is caused by high

cortisol. Do I need to be fasting for that test?

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

How are you dosing th HC again? No fasting necessary for any thyroid tests.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Val hate to bother you again. But I wanted to tell you how I

regulated my HC and Armour as you suggested.

HC 10,5,7.5,2.5...I was at 10,7.5,7.5,2.5

Armour 3 grains instead of 3.5

That is how I took it today beings you didn't specify exactly how

much and where to do it. Hope this is okay. I got some material on

RT3 to study and show my doc if she wants it. I am showing her what

you felt should be done.....I will ask to her to refill my

prescrilptions by my latest changes.

> >>Nov 28 Labs:

> Free T4...1.2.....0.6-1.2

> Free T3...4.4.....2.4-3.9

> TSH....0.02.....0.40-5.80

> Cholesterol.....178....132-240

> HDL....47.....35-80

> Triglicerides......195.....40-210

> LDL....92.....<101<<

>

> You have had some great improvements! But the fact that you do nto

feel optimized tells me you may be workign an on RT3 poroblem. BUT

what I would try firts is lowering HC. You may be able to lower

Armoru just a tad and lower the HC and get even better results. When

T4 gets that high something is not right. Your Free T3 is good where

it is, btu that T4 tells me it is not converting properly and that

can be caused by high cortisol.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

I went to Doc this morning, showed her that you thought I may have an

RT3 problem and needed tested. She gave me the test, should have

results in couple days. I told her how much HC and Armour I am

taking and what I had cut back from. She was okay with all of that.

Read a little article I took on RT3. If the test is positive, what

should be done Val?

But Val I do not feel good today, my headache is worse and I do not

feel good all over, sort of weak I guess, don't want to do anything.

Just since I cut back 2.5 HC and 30mg Armour......do you think this

will go away???

> Hi Val hate to bother you again. But I wanted to tell you how I

> regulated my HC and Armour as you suggested.

> HC 10,5,7.5,2.5...I was at 10,7.5,7.5,2.5

> Armour 3 grains instead of 3.5

> That is how I took it today beings you didn't specify exactly how

> much and where to do it. Hope this is okay. I got some material

on

> RT3 to study and show my doc if she wants it. I am showing her

what

> you felt should be done.....I will ask to her to refill my

> prescrilptions by my latest changes.

>

> > >>Nov 28 Labs:

> > Free T4...1.2.....0.6-1.2

> > Free T3...4.4.....2.4-3.9

> > TSH....0.02.....0.40-5.80

> > Cholesterol.....178....132-240

> > HDL....47.....35-80

> > Triglicerides......195.....40-210

> > LDL....92.....<101<<

> >

> > You have had some great improvements! But the fact that you do

nto

> feel optimized tells me you may be workign an on RT3 poroblem. BUT

> what I would try firts is lowering HC. You may be able to lower

> Armoru just a tad and lower the HC and get even better results.

When

> T4 gets that high something is not right. Your Free T3 is good

where

> it is, btu that T4 tells me it is not converting properly and that

> can be caused by high cortisol.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If your body is fighting RT3 ANY Armour can cuase you to not feel good

btu it is not a good idea to just stop it until you have T3 tyo replace

wiht. Changes in steroid can also cause temporary symtpoms that may go

away in a few days. Give it some time and get your labs back.

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[Guest guest]

Hi again. Don't have my RT3 lab back yet, hope tomorrow. But I had

an episode tonite. I was walking in the house from the car and all

of a sudden my heart just started pounding and I hurt, especially

when I would breathe. Sat down thought it would stop, it did not. I

took my blood pressure which wasn't too bad at the time but my heart

rate was 103, I'm very seldom over 70 now since I've been on HC and

Armour. I thought maybe it was a thyroid dump, is what it seemed

like, could that happen if rt3 is better since I downed HC & Armour.

I did not take my Armour at four when it happened in case, and did

not take HC till six. I'm fine now, my heart rate is good again and

I do not feel too bad, but I could not sleep last night so thought I

felt a little rough because of that. I took 10 mg lisinipril at

about 4:30 instead of at six. Doc upped it to twice a day cause of

higher BP since started HC.

What are palpitations like? I wasn't sure if it was that or a racing

heart. I took BP and it has an irregular heartbeat on it. It showed

that during this episode. I'm on 25HC and 3gr Armour right now but

only took 2 today. Can you help me?

>

> If your body is fighting RT3 ANY Armour can cuase you to not feel

good

> btu it is not a good idea to just stop it until you have T3 tyo

replace

> wiht. Changes in steroid can also cause temporary symtpoms that may

go

> away in a few days. Give it some time and get your labs back.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>I took 10 mg lisinipril at

about 4:30 instead of at six. Doc upped it to twice a day cause of

higher BP since started HC. <<

How high ids your BP? Lisinopril WILL make you more HYPOTHYROID. It did me, and

that can cause these palpa on exertion, even walking form car to house. HYPO is

what is causing your heart palps not taking too much thyroid and 109 is not a

high pulse, particularly if oyu just walked anywhere.

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[Guest guest]

I took the lisinipril after the pallps I had, thats why 4:30 instead

of six. Okay, then it is not unusual for these kind of palps to

happen because of hypo....never had them before, thought it was

thyroid dump causing hyper.....I really felt good when I first got up

this morning, better than a long time. I guess then I should keep

taking the Armour until I get results on my rt3 test, should get that

today. They said they would call me today, I called them early this

morning. I guess 109 is not high pulse, but when mine has always

been in the 50's & 60's that was bad for me. I noticed that my heart

rate did go up after starting HC....thanks alot

BP was 155/95 pulse 110 after palpations started. Am I right that

palpations are fast heart rate???? My bottom number is usually in

the 60's on BP.....it was reallyl scary for me and my husband.

>

> >>I took 10 mg lisinipril at

> about 4:30 instead of at six. Doc upped it to twice a day cause of

> higher BP since started HC. <<

>

> How high ids your BP? Lisinopril WILL make you more HYPOTHYROID. It

did me, and that can cause these palpa on exertion, even walking form

car to house. HYPO is what is causing your heart palps not taking too

much thyroid and 109 is not a high pulse, particularly if oyu just

walked anywhere.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

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> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

[Guest guest]

Got my lab report back by phone just a few minutse ago, they said the

RT3 is normal. I have not yet been able to go over to pick up my

copy of the lab report. I got up yesterday with bad headache but got

good during the rest of the day and taking the thyroid meds. Got up

with headache this morning but not as bad. Could be also as I

realized I did not drink much water yesterday.

This is my meds as of right now:

HC 10-5-7.5-2.5

Armour 60-60-60

I am going to be having another lab at end of month before my visit

to doc first of year. Should I just stay on these meds now and see

what the labs say then? All that bothered me last night was slight

headache and my neck ached some. WILL WAIT FOR YOUR ADVICE!!!!!!

>

> If your body is fighting RT3 ANY Armour can cuase you to not feel

good

> btu it is not a good idea to just stop it until you have T3 tyo

replace

> wiht. Changes in steroid can also cause temporary symtpoms that may

go

> away in a few days. Give it some time and get your labs back.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>Got my lab report back by phone just a few minutse ago, they said the

RT3 is normal. <<

Just abotu ever RT3 lab I have seen falls in the normal range. Thsi means

nothing. What you need is the NUMBER and it is divided into the Free T3 number

to get the ratio.

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[Guest guest]

Okay I have the numbers for the RT3 now, just picked it up. The

numbers are: 280.....90-350

I will also give you my FT3 numbers also so you don't have to go

search: 4.4...2.4-3.9

Sorry I didn't wait before till I got the numbers, I know I wasted

your time and I apologize for that. I know you spend lots of time

helping and I actually knew that, don't know what I was thinking.

I do have one other question, you stated in one of your other posts

that my AM cortisol is telling you it is supressed during the day,

could you explain that where I can understand better and what can I

do about it? Thanks so much for your help......God Bless You

>

> >>Got my lab report back by phone just a few minutse ago, they said

the

> RT3 is normal. <<

>

> Just abotu ever RT3 lab I have seen falls in the normal range. Thsi

means nothing. What you need is the NUMBER and it is divided into the

Free T3 number to get the ratio.

>

> --

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>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Your RT3 ratio is 12.5 adn needs to be OVER 19. So your RT3 is too high

and is liekly causing some of your symptoms. It also blocks the active

T3 from entering the cells.

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http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your help, but what do I do now?? Just stay on the meds as

they are or do I need extra T3??? Whatever needs to be done I want to

do it soon if I need T3 and how do I get? Thanks

>

> Your RT3 ratio is 12.5 adn needs to be OVER 19. So your RT3 is too

high

> and is liekly causing some of your symptoms. It also blocks the

active

> T3 from entering the cells.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>Thanks for your help, but what do I do now?? Just stay on the meds as

they are or do I need extra T3??? Whatever needs to be done I want to

do it soon if I need T3 and how do I get? Thanks<<

As RT3 is only made from T4 you need ot go to all T3 meds. I will email you some

places to order it.

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[Guest guest]

>

>

> As RT3 is only made from T4 you need ot go to all T3 meds. I will

email you some places to order it.

Okay thanks. So that sounds when I receive the T3, I will be going off

of the Armour correct? Can T3 just be ordered from the places or can

it be prescribed by the doctor? If Doc can do it, then my medicare

will pay for it. If not I will....thanks alot Val you are a

lifesaver...

>

> --

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>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

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>

[Guest guest]

If your doc will prescribe it it si Cytomel in the US.

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[Guest guest]

>

> If your doc will prescribe it it si Cytomel in the US.

THANKS VAL, I'll call her tomorrow as I don't see her till the first

part of January don't want to wait that long. Love you girl, there is

no one more dedicated to helping than you. I will sure keep you ulp in

my prayers.

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > If your doc will prescribe it it si Cytomel in the US.

> THANKS VAL, I'll call her tomorrow as I don't see her till the

first

> part of January don't want to wait that long.

My DOC needs some info before she will prescribe the Cytomel. Sorry

to bother you again, but I am pleased she is wanting to understand

all of this stuff. It is new to her..... thanks for your help...

1. Needs written note from you how you came up with the ratio on the

Rt3 and why you don't go by the lab saying normal.

2. How much Cytomel to prescribe and does she go off of Armour and

why. If she goes off of Armour, what about T4, doesn't she need that.

3. On one of your posts you mentioned that the AM cortisol is telling

you that it is suppressed during the day. How can that be when

taking HC, oplease explain..............

>

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

1. Needs written note from you how you came up with the ratio on the

Rt3 and why you don't go by the lab saying normal.

She should contact Dr Holtorf in CA. for the info about the ratio, he is the one

that I got this from. You can look him up on the web.

2. How much Cytomel to prescribe and does she go off of Armour and

why. If she goes off of Armour, what about T4, doesn't she need that.

T4 is ONLY used for converting to T3. T3 converts to T1 and T2 so the only thing

missing is Calcitonin for complete thyroid support adn the few months it takes

to clear out Rt3 it is not harmfyl. There is no calcitonin in T4 meds or

synthetic T3 only in Armou r or other natural thyroid meds. Thye used ot think

T4 was needed to get T3 to the brain, then they found another transporter also

carried T3 directly to the brain that crosses the blood/brain barroier, leaving

T4 to do nothing but convert adn as many peopel wiht hypothyroid do not convert

well, T4 becomes the sole probolem in high RT3 cases.

3. On one of your posts you mentioned that the AM cortisol is telling

you that it is suppressed during the day. How can that be when

taking HC, oplease explain..............

I measure my AM cortiolsl wiht a glucose meter. As I am Diabetic, I can very

accurately tell when my AM cortilsl is lower than it's usual too high levels by

a lower Dawn Rise in fglucose. Without HC my Dawn rise is 40-90 points, wiht HC

it is 20-30 points.

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[Guest guest]

I don't mean to sound dumb, but I guess I am. I do not understand what

the SUPPRESSED means, Val. Does that mean that my cortisol is not

getting to tissues that I am taking each day? I am not diabetic so I

do not have a meter that I check on (however I have one I can use, my

husbands) What do I do to change the suppressed part? Should I start

taking HC at 6am when I first get up for short time & go back to bed

instead of 8am?

> I measure my AM cortiolsl wiht a glucose meter. As I am Diabetic, I

can very accurately tell when my AM cortilsl is lower than it's usual

too high levels by a lower Dawn Rise in fglucose. Without HC my Dawn

rise is 40-90 points, wiht HC it is 20-30 points.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

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>

[Guest guest]

>>I do not understand what

the SUPPRESSED means, Val. Does that mean that my cortisol is not

getting to tissues that I am taking each day? <<

No It means when ever you take HC it lowers (supresses) ACTH which in turn means

your adrenals do not get as strong a message to produce more cortiol of their

own. WHen I take 2.5mg HC at bedtime it is just enough for overnight adn by 5AM

my own cortiosl is raging high. Whne I take 5MG HC at bedtime it supresses my AM

cortiosl to normal levels, but then I have to take low doses all day because of

the supressed ACTH. It is complex, and I have used the time I was learning to

dose my insulin when I was testign glucose nearly every hour I was awake to know

what is going on IN ME using that. But YOUR body may be very different form mine

in what causes supression adn what does not.

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