Re: Geier Statistics on Comm. Impairmentts

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

You can ask them yourself by writing Mark Geier mgeier@...

Best,

Theresa

>

>

> Good Morning-

>

> I don't intend to open a can of worms this morning regarding the

> Geier research, but I'm sure it will anyway.

>

> I am of the mindset that the Geier research is highly

controversial,

> and it is still not widely recognized by any reputable medical

> journals. I believe their most recent publication does not appear

> in what most believe to be mainstream medical literature.

HOWEVER,

> that is NOT the intent of my post, so let's not go off on a wild

> tangent.

>

> I am wondering if there has been independent confirmation of the

> numbers they use from the Department of Education regarding

children

> with communication impairments vs. autism. I have used those

> statistics myself, not realizing that the Geier studies were the

> source of them...or at least the ones who interpreted the data.

>

> Have these numbers ever been reported in any literature outside of

> the Geier research? Anything directly from the Dept. of Ed? If I

> am going to use these numbers, I would rather have them be from an

> independent source, and not from authors who have been viewed

> skeptically by much of the world beyond the autism community.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Dr. Geier's study caught my attention for many reasons.

Even though it was after the (toxic) reasons why we moved from NJ

http://www.cherab.org/news/Save.html

I asked and was sent books from the US Department of Education for stats over

the past 15 years -huge amount of data, small print and it came in big heavy

boxes. The main flaw in going over them (in this lifetime) is that the stats

were not

always done the same universally in each state over the years.

Classifications varied -and... the Department of Ed is dependant

upon those who submit all they are supposed to. So probably Dr.

Geier's results are not 100% accurate -but does that mean we don't

look at this? And if we don't -what do we have to look at? As far

as I see it from what Dr. Geier's report shows and what I've read

from the stats is that no matter what it's called there is a

definitive rise in both learning disorders and speech and language

disorders Nationwide in the US -and not a rise in MR (outside of

Vermont and North Carolina which did have a rise in MR while the

rest of the country had a rise in speech and language and learning

disorders)

About that. When people hear about the rise in ____ (autism,

apraxia, speech and language disorders) some debate that " sure there

is a rise -but that's just due to more awareness don't you think? "

Some suggest that the " rise " are just children taking from an MR

classification to a ____ classification.

What's interesting to point out is that the numbers of children

classified with mental retardation pretty much stayed the same

throughout the country over the past 10 years -except for North

Carolina and Vermont (just like California had the most dramatic

rise in autism -so is either accurate?!) Well either it's true or

gosh darn it someone made sure they were right! (the wrong way -

they misclassified tons of kids)

As we know studies like the one done on vaccines have flaws too.

They can be talked about and respected by leading media and

publications. But are they 100% accurate? Does anyone get involved

in research with absolutely 'no' vested interest? They should -but

is that the case? As a parent of a child that is affected -and as

the intelligent and strong advocate you are -read the following and

know this is just part of what Dr. Geier pulled from. (I can't

imagine the hours and years to go through all of the books with a

fine toothed comb!)

I wondered here about the rise in certain states like NJ -something

that Dr. Geier didn't go into in the report. I did speak to him

about it, and his reason for looking was just to find stats for

autism -he was horrified to find what he did on speech and

language. As I've posted here he told me (from memory -but this too

is in the archives) " A 30 fold rise in anything is dramatic. As a

geneticist we have to find out what is causing this rise and stop

it. We can't have this percentage of the population unable to

communicate for the sake of the future of the human race. "

I'm not convinced that vaccines alone are the problem even though

Tanner regressed after his third hepatitis shot at 11 months.

I asked Dr. Geier if it's possible that's since toxins are

cumulative perhaps it's from multiple causes and not just vaccines.

That would explain why the numbers appear to not be consistent from

state to state as you will see below. But put the vaccines together

with environmental factors -like toxins in soil -and that's where

the problem is from. I figure the soil should be looked at most

since there are parts of NYC so close to NJ, so air is perhaps

looked at too much. Just a few years ago before 911 there was a

huge difference in numbers between the two states -at one point NJ

had higher numbers than NY!! As far as 911- lung disorders talked

about in the media appear to not be the only side effect of all that

happened with 911.

Here are some archives with some stats from around April of 2003 not

in any order -I find the NY-NJ ones the most interesting.

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:53 pm

Subject: Re: US Department of Ed stats NJ/NY comparison

Hi again Deb,

Sorry -Vermont like New Hampshire also stayed about the same.

For 1999-2000 for 6-11 year olds -the number was 1,206 not 7, 768

(that was Utah's number)

Replace the 7,768 with the 1,206 and you will see that there has

actually been a drop (?) in numbers of students in Vermont with

speech and language disorders unlike the rest of the world for some

reason....oh wait -the number of MR children has doubled in the past

6 years or so -must be that.

> Vermont

> 1996-1997 School Year

> 12-17 years old

> speech and language impaired 536 (MR -656/ Autistic -28 )

>

> 6-11 years old

> speech and language impaired 1,227 (MR 568- Autistic -35 )

>

> 1999-2000 School Year

> 12-17 years old

> speech and language impaired 744 (MR 730-/ Autistic -65 )

>

> 6-11 years old

> speech and language impaired 7,768 (MR 1,197- Autistic -87)

(And the link to the " toxic black ooze anyone? " while playing ball

at a park in NJ is

http://www.thnt.com/thnt/story/0,21282,596491,00.html )

=====

[Guest guest]

and ,

this site maybe of great interest to both of you

http://www.aamr.org/ToxinsandMentalRetardation/index.html

I had the privelage to listen to a lecture given by Dr. Martha R

Herbert, M.D., Ph.D. who is an

Assistant Professor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School and a

researcher

at the Massachusetts General Hospital.

What she conveyed in regards to this epidemic we are living in is the

ultimate " Canary in a coalmine " and the canaries are our children.

> Dr. Geier's study caught my attention for many reasons.

> Even though it was after the (toxic) reasons why we moved from NJ

> http://www.cherab.org/news/Save.html

[Guest guest]

Colleen,

As always, you come up with the most amazing information and resources. This

is a FABULOUS site because it makes the connection between toxins and

neurodevelopmental disorders other than (and including) autism.

Many in the autism community have made the connection -- and have seen their

children improve, which in my mind is THE REAL TEST of whether or not the

DAN! movement is headed in the right direction. Now it's time for our

community and other communities of parents and children with

neurodevelopmental disorders to start making the connection. The future of

our children is at stake.

Best,

Theresa

>

> > Dr. Geier's study caught my attention for many reasons.

> > Even though it was after the (toxic) reasons why we moved from NJ

> > http://www.cherab.org/news/Save.html

[Guest guest]

HI All-

Why are the Geier numbers so different from what you see at this web

site?

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d03/tables/dt052.asp

[Guest guest]

The years Geirs most recently published study Dec. 2004 I believe was

the published date, inspected VAERS database, for years 1997 thru

2004, those children were not school age yet from the years on the

dept of ed site.That is only up to 2001, those studied would only be

4 at that time.

From the published article, it states: " VAERS was analyzed for

neurodevelopmental adverse events reported in a cohort receiving

thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines to a cohort receiving thimerosal

free DTaP(1997-2000) including autism, mental reardation, ataxia,

speech disorders thinking abnormalities and personality disorders "

Those children are just now in kdg-2nd grade.

>

>

> HI All-

>

> Why are the Geier numbers so different from what you see at this

web

> site?

>

> http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d03/tables/dt052.asp

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Dr. Geier is very easy to talk to -and since his email address has

been posted here and is also on the web -I'm sure you can just ask

him. Perhaps he'll answer here for all if he has the time.

Not that I'll attempt to answer for Dr. Mark Geier MD PhD, " a board

certified geneticist, president of the Genetic Centers of America,

past professor at s Hopkins University Hospital, and a

researcher at the NIH " , but the page you posted is for the 3-21 year

old stats. You probably will get a better idea by looking at the

breakdowns of ages unless you want to look instead at total numbers

of classified I guess.

If you are going to look at pages vs. books (which don't have

everything) this may be a better one since it has the breakdowns.

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/OSEP95AnlRpt/pdf/aa11.pdf

(see page 3 for speech and language in 1976.

(look at up down numbers of classified LD vs speech impaired)

So - in going over the books sent to me the main flaw is not all

states reported the same, had the same classifications -and may not

have submitted or submitted accurate complete data. And the problem with

looking at just a few pages. Do we come to

the conclusion that NJ had a 20,000 decrease in speech and language

disoders since 1976? That's what the data shows right? Or do you

have to anazlize what the other (missing then) classifications were

for 1976? Like " multiple disabilities " " deaf blindness " " autism and

traumatic brain injury " " developmental delay " and even " preschool

disabled " ! Do we instead look at total numbers of children in

school population vs. total classifications to get the accurate

numbers? And speaking of questions.

Here is one email from Dr. Geier to the AAP questioning...

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/eletters/114/3/584#1049

And here is the answer for the " questioned "

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/eletters/114/3/584#1073

More questions here

" But Dr. Mark Geier, a geneticist who has worked as a consultant on

parents' lawsuits against vaccine makers, said the researchers' own

earlier analysis of the study results found strong links between

vaccines and such problems -- and that the published results attempt

to conceal those findings. He claimed the final analysis " is

intentional fraud. " ...

The study's lead author, former CDC researcher Dr.

Verstraeten, now works for vaccine maker GlaxoKline in Belgium,

and Geier said that connection may have influenced how the research

was reported.

Verstraeten, who left the CDC in July 2001, did not respond to an e-

mail request seeking a response, and company spokeswoman

Pekarek said he did not wish to discuss the results. She provided a

written statement in which Verstraeten indicated that since leaving

the CDC he has worked only as an adviser as the study was finalized

and prepared for publication. "

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/health/110303_hs_vaccines_mercury.html

And about the study -you are not the only one questioning

More questions

Questions on Dr. Geier's study from the CDC

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-thimerosal.htm#8

And questions back regarding " Enron-esque accounting under the label of science "

http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/press_releases/040614-PR12B-ColumbiaUnivStudy\

..pdf

(full text)

http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/press_releases/14June2004_Hornig_Thimerosal_M\

ouse.pdf

(kind of reminds me of that song -you love her but she loves him and he loves

somebody else you just can't win... just substitute the word question

for love)

For me -I'm thrilled with anyone that helps us raise awareness -who

took the time to try to analize all the data over the past 10

years. And after all -his conclusion stated the obvious -there's

been a rise in speech and language disorders. Does 'anyone'

question that?

(and if someone can do a better study to 'prove' the obvious -please do)

=====