Re: Saliva Tests results - please comment

[Guest guest]

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%206.html

Yes about Stage 6.

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[Guest guest]

-Val I really don't understand as I had such a hard time with the

HC - please see the posts A photo tells a thousand words. I thought I

went hyper - I was so distressed.

Can you please help me

Geraldine

-- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS ,

wrote:

>

> http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%206.html

>

> Yes about Stage 6.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

I think your highish DHEA is what caused the problems, and I think you

will need HC but VERY slowly ramping up so the DHEA will have time to

lower as you go. You might do best to start with Isocort and ramp tyhat

up about twice as slowly as the usual ramp up schedule. Do you have a BP

machine? It would be a good idea to get one. Also have you had estrogen

tested? Estrogen can be a veyr good way to tell what is going on with

cortisol. It helps clear the picture when you have had mixed sympotms

such as you have had.

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Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

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[Guest guest]

-Val I really don't understand as I had such a hard time with the

HC - please see the posts A photo tells a thousand words. I thought I

went hyper - I was so distressed.

Can you please help me

Geraldine

-- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS ,

wrote:

>

> http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%206.html

>

> Yes about Stage 6.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Val

Yes I do have a BP machine and my BP was very high when I was going

through that (hyper episode?). It is good now - around 134/83 pulse

79 and after relaxing for 5 min its 21/81 pulse 78.

Could you please explain about the DHEA causing the problems?

I am waiting on estrogen results and they were blood not saliva so

(a) will that be good enough and ( what do you think might be going

on with it?

Thanks so much.

I must say I am trying really hard to keep calm

Geralidne

>

> I think your highish DHEA is what caused the problems, and I think

you

> will need HC but VERY slowly ramping up so the DHEA will have time

to

> lower as you go. You might do best to start with Isocort and ramp

tyhat

> up about twice as slowly as the usual ramp up schedule. Do you have

a BP

> machine? It would be a good idea to get one. Also have you had

estrogen

> tested? Estrogen can be a veyr good way to tell what is going on

with

> cortisol. It helps clear the picture when you have had mixed

sympotms

> such as you have had.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>Yes I do have a BP machine and my BP was very high when I was going

through that (hyper episode?). It is good now - around 134/83 pulse

79 and after relaxing for 5 min its 21/81 pulse 78.

Could you please explain about the DHEA causing the problems?

I am waiting on estrogen results and they were blood not saliva so

(a) will that be good enough and ( what do you think might be going

on with it?<<

Yes the estrogen labs will help clear things up. This is why I suggested Isocort

to start. you need some cortiosl and hopefully as you raise the Isocort SLOWLY

it will lower DHEA. High DHEA causes many similar symptoms to high cortiosl adn

it eleates when the adrenals are exhausted. When you raised the cortisol the

last time I feel it was too fast and the DHEA was high too causing your symtpoms

of too much steroid. Estrogen levels should clear up the confusion. If they are

NOT high you need ot og really slowly wiht the Isocort, if they are high is

states your cortiosl has been low for a whiel and the excess DHEA has even been

worse than it is now.

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[Guest guest]

Val

Do you know what Isocort is called in Australia? I didn't come up

with anything when I used the Australian google.

Can you tell me why Isocort is better for me than HC?

So if my estrogens are high then how did the DHEA lower? Does

estrogen lower cortisol?

I am sorry to bug you its just that I really need to understand the

process before going to my Dr as it will only be my second visit with

him.

Thanks again

Geraldine

>

> Yes the estrogen labs will help clear things up. This is why I

suggested Isocort to start. you need some cortiosl and hopefully as

you raise the Isocort SLOWLY it will lower DHEA. High DHEA causes

many similar symptoms to high cortiosl adn it eleates when the

adrenals are exhausted. When you raised the cortisol the last time I

feel it was too fast and the DHEA was high too causing your symtpoms

of too much steroid. Estrogen levels should clear up the confusion.

If they are NOT high you need ot og really slowly wiht the Isocort,

if they are high is states your cortiosl has been low for a whiel and

the excess DHEA has even been worse than it is now.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

[Guest guest]

>>Do you know what Isocort is called in Australia? I didn't come up

with anything when I used the Australian google.

Can you tell me why Isocort is better for me than HC?<<

You will probably have to ordr Isocort from a USA site. It is only called

Isocxort as it is a brand name and I prefer it over all the other adrneal

glandulars as we know it has SAOME cortiosl in it and it is wtandardized to the

same amount in every pellet. I htink the Isocort will slowly build your cortiosl

as with high DHEA if oyu raise cortisol troo quickly you will get the same

symptoms of over stimulation you had on HC. You might be able to use HC the same

way starting wiht 2.5mg doses adn really dgoing VERY slowly. Say building to

15MG in a month,.

>>So if my estrogens are high then how did the DHEA lower? Does

estrogen lower cortisol?<<

If estrogens are high it mans SOME of the high DHEA you had was converting to

otoo muchestrogen, Estrogen does not lower cortiolsl but cortisol lowers

estrogen.

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[Guest guest]

Val

My husband has converted my results so that they are in the same

measurements as per ASI from www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%207.htm

So here it is according to what you are used to ie nM.

Morning 21.1

Noon 4.9

4pm 6.4

8pm 2.7

These readings seem to follow the reference range curves - although to

the bottom of the range at noon and the 8pm.

DHEA 6.3 (My reading was 21.7nmol/L and the chart is in ng/ml - my

conversion factor was to divide nmol/L by 3.47)

When we charted this onto stage 7 it all came up in the reference range.

Would you be able to look again and give your opinion?

Geraldine

[Guest guest]

The problem is you cannot compare one lab ranges to another. The RANGES

sare different for a reason and it is not just the measurements. It is

how they measure.

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[Guest guest]

Ok - but the pattern of the cortisol ie the shape of the curve does't

look the same as stage 7.

>

> The problem is you cannot compare one lab ranges to another. The

RANGES

> sare different for a reason and it is not just the measurements. It

is

> how they measure.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

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>

[Guest guest]

Stage 6...

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[Guest guest]

Look at the range for your lab for the 8AM.. It is DOUBLE what it is for

the noon.. more than double and your levels need ot be at the top of

that range. Noon shoul;d be top of range as well wiht 4PM at mid range

and midnight middle of range too.

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[Guest guest]

What did your last thyroid labs look like and were you taking any

thyroid when you had the problems last time?

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[Guest guest]

Last thyroid labs:

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

Got some of my bloodwork back from yesterdays draw. Still waiting for

homocystine, Vit D and Zinc. Cortisol saliva will take another couple

of weeks

TSH

9-Nov 2.23 0.40-4.00

28/11/2007 1.5 0.40-4.00

FT3

9/11/2007 3.3 2.6-5.7

28/11/2007 3.6 2.6-5.7

FT4

9/11/2007 15 9.0-19.0

28/11/2007 10 9.0-19.0

When I had the big issues I was taking 20mcgs of T3

>

> What did your last thyroid labs look like and were you taking any

> thyroid when you had the problems last time?

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

[Guest guest]

Val - I am not trying to provoke you but merely understand whats

going on. I am currently taking 10mg T3 at 5 -5. Should I stop this

and start the Isocort and how much Isocort should I be take and how

should I ramp it?

Thank you for your patience

Geraldine

> >

> > What did your last thyroid labs look like and were you taking any

> > thyroid when you had the problems last time?

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Val

I just got my estrogen results back. Could you please see what you

think of it according to what you said below?

28/11/2007 Day 11 of cycle

FSH 5 (1 to 10)

Oestradiol 467 (77 -920)

Progesterone 0.6 (<1.0)

Thank you

Geraldine

>

> I think your highish DHEA is what caused the problems, and I think

you

> will need HC but VERY slowly ramping up so the DHEA will have time

to

> lower as you go. You might do best to start with Isocort and ramp

tyhat

> up about twice as slowly as the usual ramp up schedule. Do you have

a BP

> machine? It would be a good idea to get one. Also have you had

estrogen

> tested? Estrogen can be a veyr good way to tell what is going on

with

> cortisol. It helps clear the picture when you have had mixed

sympotms

> such as you have had.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

No you do not need to stop the T3 to start Isocort. JUts watch your

temps carefully and if they start going over 99 degrees and only if they

do would you need to stop that.

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[Guest guest]

FSH 5 (1 to 10)

Oestradiol 467 (77 -920)

Progesterone 0.6 (<1.0)

As this is day 11 of your cycle, I think it looks prety goos but I am not

certain where FSH should be at this stage of your cycle. It is NOT showing low

cortisol! If your cortiosl was really low the estrogen would be over the top of

it's range, unless you are hypopituitary or hypogonad. Does your doctor know how

to do an ACTH stim test? Will they do this?

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[Guest guest]

-Val

I don't see my new Dr for nearly another two weeks and I have no idea

whether he will do an ACTH test.

Now I am really confused - you think I am not stage 6?

I know you are doing all of this out of the goodness of your heart

and I really do appreciate your kindness. Would you please explain

what you think might be going on and why?

Thanks

Geraldine

-- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS ,

wrote:

>

> FSH 5 (1 to 10)

> Oestradiol 467 (77 -920)

> Progesterone 0.6 (<1.0)

>

> As this is day 11 of your cycle, I think it looks prety goos but I

am not certain where FSH should be at this stage of your cycle. It is

NOT showing low cortisol! If your cortiosl was really low the

estrogen would be over the top of it's range, unless you are

hypopituitary or hypogonad. Does your doctor know how to do an ACTH

stim test? Will they do this?

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Geraldine your labs and symptoms are conflicting. Thus the

recommendation for more testing to clarify what is going on. If you have

a pituitary problem it will cause low cortisol AND low estrogen, or T

LEAST NORMAL ESTROGEN LEVELS WHICH ONCE OYU ADD CORTISOL WILL LOWER TO

SHOW THEIR TRUE (sory abotu caps) level which would be low. If you do

NOT have a pituitary problem then your estrogen levels are telling us

your cortisol is barely low. I suspect pituitary problems as your

reaction to HC before could have been from the sudden drop in estrogen

which cou,ld happen if your pituitary is not calling for enough of that

either and your only maintaining normal estrogen levels through the low

cortilsl changing the conversion pathways. Now I know I am probably

confusing you here, it is hard to explain.

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[Guest guest]

-Confused - yes! How would the DHEA stand in all of this?

I guess I should get to the Dr but until then should I just stay on

the T3 @ 10mcgs per day and not start the Isocort?

Is there anything else I can do to try figure it all out? Should I

post on Chris's forrum ?

Cheers Val

Geraldine

-- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS ,

wrote:

>

> Geraldine your labs and symptoms are conflicting. Thus the

> recommendation for more testing to clarify what is going on. If you

have

> a pituitary problem it will cause low cortisol AND low estrogen, or

T

> LEAST NORMAL ESTROGEN LEVELS WHICH ONCE OYU ADD CORTISOL WILL

LOWER TO

> SHOW THEIR TRUE (sory abotu caps) level which would be low. If you

do

> NOT have a pituitary problem then your estrogen levels are telling

us

> your cortisol is barely low. I suspect pituitary problems as your

> reaction to HC before could have been from the sudden drop in

estrogen

> which cou,ld happen if your pituitary is not calling for enough of

that

> either and your only maintaining normal estrogen levels through the

low

> cortilsl changing the conversion pathways. Now I know I am probably

> confusing you here, it is hard to explain.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

>>-Confused - yes! How would the DHEA stand in all of this?

I guess I should get to the Dr but until then should I just stay on

the T3 @ 10mcgs per day and not start the Isocort?

Is there anything else I can do to try figure it all out? Should I

post on Chris's forrum ?<<

I would just stay on the 10MCG T3 and try to gety to see the doctor. You could

post to but I am betting he will tell you the same thing thta you need

further testing to help clarify what is going on.

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