Re: Had another attack last night

[Guest guest]

,

I found this fascinating.

Do you remember where you found this info? So many of us with

adrenal/thyroid problems have trouble sleeping and could be

unknowingly using sleep aids that are making us far worse. If true,

this info needs to be disseminated to the whole thyroid/adrenal community.

>

> Holy crap I just found this:

>

> If you take too much melatonin, you may experience the following

effects:

>

> If you take too much melatonin, you may experience the following

effects:

>

> * Drowsiness upon arising

> * Wild, not just vivid, (bad) dreams

> * An excess of the thyroid hormone (T3), resulting in waking up

> nervous, sweating, and with palpitations

>

> Maybe I've been doing this to myself by taking these herbal sleep

> remedies. I guess I know one thing to stop taking.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, does it say how much is too much? Can you post a link to where

you read it?

thanks,

sol

jasrich wrote:

> If you take too much melatonin, you may experience the following effects:

>

> * Drowsiness upon arising

> * Wild, not just vivid, (bad) dreams

> * An excess of the thyroid hormone (T3), resulting in waking up

> nervous, sweating, and with palpitations

>

> Maybe I've been doing this to myself by taking these herbal sleep

> remedies. I guess I know one thing to stop taking.

>

[Guest guest]

I had the exact same thing happen to me when I started out with Melatonin.

I took 2 mg. about 2 hours later I had what I think was a panic attack. I

felt very altered, shaky, I felt like I could not breathe and my pulse was

flying. I wrote the board (NTH) about it and someone there, who is a chemist

answered my post. He explained to me that melatonin can, indeed cause this

reaction if your body has really low thyroid and or low cortisol. He advised

me to drop to 1/2 of 1 mg. and slowly increase (like 1/4 mg every few weeks)

all the while doing what I needed to do the address the thyroid/ adrenal

issues. His advise made sense to me and I dropped back to 1/2 and never had

that reaction again. I currently take 1 mg and don't intend to increase this

until my adrenals are healthy again.

Hope this helps,

in TN

Had another attack last night

This one was as bad as the first several weeks ago and came on exactly

the same way. I took my bed-time dose of 5mg of HC at 11PM, with a

piece of cheese, read until around 11:30, turned off the light and

immediately fell asleep. At 12:30 I woke up all of a sudden,

sweating, panicking, with my hands and feet tingling, pain in the

stomach, nausea, short of breath, palps, etc. I tried to ride out the

panic by reasoning with myself that I knew what this was and that it

would go away, but it was too intense so I got up and took a Xanax. I

fell back to sleep eventually, but I feel tired and pretty much awful

today as I always do after I have these things.

I just don't understand what is causing these as I can't be going low

cortisol and hypogly less than an hour after taking HC. It's different

from how I wake up at 5AM hungry and sweating. I know when that

happens that I have to get up and eat which is what I have been doing

this past week to deal with the middle of the night hypogly. One

thing that I noticed last night is that the label on my

melatonin/valerian root/gaba herbal sleep aid warns about taking it if

one has endocrine disorders. Maybe the melatonin is doing this?

Holy crap I just found this:

If you take too much melatonin, you may experience the following effects:

If you take too much melatonin, you may experience the following effects:

* Drowsiness upon arising

* Wild, not just vivid, (bad) dreams

* An excess of the thyroid hormone (T3), resulting in waking up

nervous, sweating, and with palpitations

Maybe I've been doing this to myself by taking these herbal sleep

remedies. I guess I know one thing to stop taking.

[Guest guest]

Found it here - http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T77232.html . I was

taking the full boat of 3mg but I have no intention of tempting

another attack by taking it again at lower doses - Klonopin and

Lunesta work fine (I alternate them, I don't take them together). I'm

starting to think that much of the night time cortisol trouble that I

have been having has been as a result of melatonin b/c I have been

taking it almost the entire time that I was taking Iso and now HC. I

spoke to my sister tonight and learned that my 11 year old niece, who

I believe has an undiagnosed thyroid condition, had the same reaction

when my sister gave her melatonin once. It doesn't completely explain

the lingering reaction in my hands and feet, but I believe that those

symptoms are also mostly thyroid related.

>

> ,

> I found this fascinating.

>

> Do you remember where you found this info? So many of us with

> adrenal/thyroid problems have trouble sleeping and could be

> unknowingly using sleep aids that are making us far worse. If true,

> this info needs to be disseminated to the whole thyroid/adrenal

community.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks , it helps a lot to know what has probably been causing

these attacks and that I'm not the only one. At 1AM when you're

panicking it feels awfully lonely. I'm not going to risk it with

melatonin anymore so hopefully I'm done waking up like that.

>

> I had the exact same thing happen to me when I started out with

Melatonin.

> I took 2 mg. about 2 hours later I had what I think was a panic

attack. I

> felt very altered, shaky, I felt like I could not breathe and my

pulse was

> flying.

[Guest guest]

jasrich wrote:

> Found it here - http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T77232.html . I was

> taking the full boat of 3mg but I have no intention of tempting

> another attack by taking it again at lower doses - Klonopin and

> Lunesta work fine (I alternate them, I don't take them together).

Do you get the awful rotten taste in the mouth from the Lunesta? I don't

think I could stand to take it even if it had worked for me. It made

even plain water taste like steeped sewage. Not only did Lunesta not

work for me, if I recall correctly (having tried so many sleep meds) I

got literally zero sleep the nights I took it. It was so bad, I couldn't

keep on though supposedly most of these things work better the longer

you take them.

sol

[Guest guest]

I heard that the metallic/fish taste is common with Lunesta but,

surprisingly, since I usually get to experience every nasty

side-effect of everything I take, I don't get that one and it does

seem to help me sleep. Klonopin seems to work the best for me, but I

don't want to take it every night. BTW everyone, I did NOT take the

melatonin !@#$ last night and, wonder of wonders, I slept straight

through from 11:30PM to 6:30AM without waking up at all (I did take

the Klonopin). After the past two weeks, 7 hours of uninterrupted

sleep, let alone interrupted with a panic attack and heart palps, was

like a gift from the gods. I'll withhold judgment for the next week or

so as I test this theory, but I think I found at least that problem.

I still had to get up at 6:30AM to eat after getting up to go to the

bathroom b/c I was definitely low cortisol, hypogly by then, but I can

live with that for now. Thanks to all who helped me figure this out

and everyone beware of melatonin, at least at the 3mg dose that most

of these herbal remedies come in.

> > Found it here - http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T77232.html . I was

> > taking the full boat of 3mg but I have no intention of tempting

> > another attack by taking it again at lower doses - Klonopin and

> > Lunesta work fine (I alternate them, I don't take them together).

> Do you get the awful rotten taste in the mouth from the Lunesta? I

don't

> think I could stand to take it even if it had worked for me. It made

> even plain water taste like steeped sewage. Not only did Lunesta not

> work for me, if I recall correctly (having tried so many sleep meds) I

> got literally zero sleep the nights I took it. It was so bad, I

couldn't

> keep on though supposedly most of these things work better the longer

> you take them.

> sol

>

[Guest guest]

Had another tonight, not quite as bad, but came on exactly as they all

do, 30 - 45 minutes after I fell asleep. I haven't taken the

melatonin in three nights so can't blame that this time. I don't see

how this could be a low cortisol issue since I'm taking 5mg of HC

right before bed, but I just took 2.5mg more like I would if I woke up

at 4 or 5AM. I'm really at my wits end with these attacks. I'm going

to call my doc tomorrow, but my DO doesn't think that I should be on

HC so I know where that call will lead if I get to talk to him which

is doubtful. I couldn't get my Top Doc to focus when I tried to talk

to him about these attacks a couple of weeks ago, but he's the one

that prescribed the HC so I guess that I'll call and blame it on that

and see what he says, but I'm not hopeful that he'll have an answer.

I know that I had never experienced anything like this before I

started taking Iso or HC so it seems like cortisol must be involved,

but I don't understand what the problem is. The only change in meds or

supplements over the past few days is stopping the melatonin at night,

and adding 1/4 grain of Armour two days ago. In addition to the 20 -

25mg of HC and now 1 1/4 grain of Armour, I'm taking 1000mg of flax

seed oil, vitamins B-50, and B-12 2X/day, vitamin B-5 1X/day, and

5000IU of vitamin D 3x/week. I'm also going to do as Val advised

someone else today and discontinue the supplements and add them back

in one at a time - I was going to do that anyway as the GI upset over

the past two weeks has been almost continuous.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.

[Guest guest]

-

I also get this, and I don't take melatonin. Do you eat something

before you go to bed? I found that this could bring on

these 'attacks' - and after much research I found it was

gastroparesis - delayed stomach emptying, which causes blood sugar

swings. The condition is related to hypothyroidism (simply - the

stomach doesn't empty quickly enough, and diabetes, where high

glucose over the years has damaged the vagus nerve which controls the

stomach and other nervous system functions). It eases when I am on

the right dose of thyroid, which for me is a mixture of Armour and T3

(still finding the right combination).

Too much thyroid will also give me this - you have just increased

your Armour? Stressed adrenals also.

Maybe the HC isn't strong enough for you at nighttime? May be you

need something that is stronger and lasts longer like prednisolone.

Hope this helps a bit.

Nicola

-- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS , " jasrich "

wrote:

>

> Had another tonight, not quite as bad, but came on exactly as they

all

> do, 30 - 45 minutes after I fell asleep. I haven't taken the

> melatonin in three nights so can't blame that this time. I don't

see

> how this could be a low cortisol issue since I'm taking 5mg of HC

> right before bed, but I just took 2.5mg more like I would if I woke

up

> at 4 or 5AM. I'm really at my wits end with these attacks. I'm

going

> to call my doc tomorrow, but my DO doesn't think that I should be on

> HC so I know where that call will lead if I get to talk to him which

> is doubtful. I couldn't get my Top Doc to focus when I tried to talk

> to him about these attacks a couple of weeks ago, but he's the one

> that prescribed the HC so I guess that I'll call and blame it on

that

> and see what he says, but I'm not hopeful that he'll have an

answer.

> I know that I had never experienced anything like this before I

> started taking Iso or HC so it seems like cortisol must be involved,

> but I don't understand what the problem is. The only change in meds

or

> supplements over the past few days is stopping the melatonin at

night,

> and adding 1/4 grain of Armour two days ago. In addition to the

20 -

> 25mg of HC and now 1 1/4 grain of Armour, I'm taking 1000mg of flax

> seed oil, vitamins B-50, and B-12 2X/day, vitamin B-5 1X/day, and

> 5000IU of vitamin D 3x/week. I'm also going to do as Val advised

> someone else today and discontinue the supplements and add them back

> in one at a time - I was going to do that anyway as the GI upset

over

> the past two weeks has been almost continuous.

>

> Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nicola, I do eat before I go to bed b/c I take HC at that time so

that I can sleep. I know that I'm not on enough thyroid hormone and

everything that I'm doing with adrenal support is aimed at making it

possible for me to increase my dose of Armour, but I just can't seem

to get there - one set back after another. I probably do need more

cortisol and I had already decided to increase the HC today to a total

dose of 22.5mg or maybe even 25mg (from 20mg). Maybe I do need

something stronger, but it was hard enough to find a doc to prescribe

the HC, I don't know how I would get one to give me something more.

Do you take your HC at night? How did you get around the need to eat

with it?

Thanks for responding,

>

> -

>

> I also get this, and I don't take melatonin. Do you eat something

> before you go to bed? I found that this could bring on

> these 'attacks' - and after much research I found it was

> gastroparesis - delayed stomach emptying, which causes blood sugar

> swings. The condition is related to hypothyroidism (simply - the

> stomach doesn't empty quickly enough, and diabetes, where high

> glucose over the years has damaged the vagus nerve which controls the

> stomach and other nervous system functions). It eases when I am on

> the right dose of thyroid, which for me is a mixture of Armour and T3

> (still finding the right combination).

>

> Too much thyroid will also give me this - you have just increased

> your Armour? Stressed adrenals also.

>

> Maybe the HC isn't strong enough for you at nighttime? May be you

> need something that is stronger and lasts longer like prednisolone.

>

> Hope this helps a bit.

>

> Nicola

[Guest guest]

You will get there with the thyroid, but it takes time. I'm almost 2

years in, and still haven't found the right dose for me, although I

think I'm close. The 3-5 grain Armour thing did not work for me - I

got up to 3 grains and overdosed on T4. Then I switched to T3.

I do not know what causes this, but I think it is just that

everything has slowed down from being hypo. I haven't found anything

that works, guaranteed, every time, but thyroid hormone comes the

closest.

How do you sleep for the rest of the night? Does the bedtime dose of

HC see you through? Why do you eat before you go to bed - is it

because you are hypoglycemic? This was the case with me for a good

18 months, and I am still not clear of it now, but getting there. My

adrenals are a basketcase - HC does nothing for me. I take 1.5mg

Prednisolone before I go to bed, and eat, and it still happens to me.

It is a mystery. Let me know how you go. Sorry I can't be of more

help.

Nicola

- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS , " jasrich "

wrote:

>

> Hi Nicola, I do eat before I go to bed b/c I take HC at that time so

> that I can sleep. I know that I'm not on enough thyroid hormone and

> everything that I'm doing with adrenal support is aimed at making it

> possible for me to increase my dose of Armour, but I just can't seem

> to get there - one set back after another. I probably do need more

> cortisol and I had already decided to increase the HC today to a

total

> dose of 22.5mg or maybe even 25mg (from 20mg). Maybe I do need

> something stronger, but it was hard enough to find a doc to

prescribe

> the HC, I don't know how I would get one to give me something more.

>

> Do you take your HC at night? How did you get around the need to

eat

> with it?

>

> Thanks for responding,

>

>

>

>

> >

> > -

> >

> > I also get this, and I don't take melatonin. Do you eat

something

> > before you go to bed? I found that this could bring on

> > these 'attacks' - and after much research I found it was

> > gastroparesis - delayed stomach emptying, which causes blood

sugar

> > swings. The condition is related to hypothyroidism (simply - the

> > stomach doesn't empty quickly enough, and diabetes, where high

> > glucose over the years has damaged the vagus nerve which controls

the

> > stomach and other nervous system functions). It eases when I am

on

> > the right dose of thyroid, which for me is a mixture of Armour

and T3

> > (still finding the right combination).

> >

> > Too much thyroid will also give me this - you have just increased

> > your Armour? Stressed adrenals also.

> >

> > Maybe the HC isn't strong enough for you at nighttime? May be

you

> > need something that is stronger and lasts longer like

prednisolone.

> >

> > Hope this helps a bit.

> >

> > Nicola

>

[Guest guest]

have oyu ever been told you snore? I am wondering if you have

sleep apnea. It is very common with hypothyoriism and when you have an

apnea attack your throat closes and that could certainly trigger an

adrenaline dump that could wake you feeling like this.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Nope, no snoring (at least not much) or apnea - even did a sleep study

a couple of years ago to make sure although I certainly didn't sleep

much with all of that gear on me. I spoke to my Top Doc's nurse (also

his wife) for almost 30 minutes this morning, describing my problem.

She promised to get back to me with the doc's advice before the end of

the day.

>

> have oyu ever been told you snore? I am wondering if you have

> sleep apnea. It is very common with hypothyoriism and when you have an

> apnea attack your throat closes and that could certainly trigger an

> adrenaline dump that could wake you feeling like this.

[Guest guest]

For the past two nights I slept through the night - 11PM to 6 or

6:30AM which was a rare gift. Typically, since starting on Iso two

months ago, and now HC, I wake up at around 5AM to go to the bathroom

and then I have to eat something because my stomach starts with

intense hunger pangs. My understanding is that my cortisol is

dropping in the middle of the night and that I am then going hypogly.

I eat right before bed b/c I have to take that bed-time dose of 5mg

of HC and I can't take it on an empty stomach. Until last night I

really thought that I had the night-time attack thing figured out,

blaming it on the melatonin. I still think that it had something to

do with it, but there is obviously something else going on and I agree

with you that it is GI and blood sugar related. My stomach still

isn't good this morning. I took 10mg of HC this morning for the first

time so maybe that's accounting for some of it. 18 months of this for

you so far huh? That's tough. I don't see how I will last that long

but I don't know what else to do. There doesn't seem to be a path

" back " from here once you start this so I guess we just keep on.

>

>

>

> You will get there with the thyroid, but it takes time. I'm almost 2

> years in, and still haven't found the right dose for me, although I

> think I'm close. The 3-5 grain Armour thing did not work for me - I

> got up to 3 grains and overdosed on T4. Then I switched to T3.

>

> I do not know what causes this, but I think it is just that

> everything has slowed down from being hypo. I haven't found anything

> that works, guaranteed, every time, but thyroid hormone comes the

> closest.

>

> How do you sleep for the rest of the night? Does the bedtime dose of

> HC see you through? Why do you eat before you go to bed - is it

> because you are hypoglycemic? This was the case with me for a good

> 18 months, and I am still not clear of it now, but getting there. My

> adrenals are a basketcase - HC does nothing for me. I take 1.5mg

> Prednisolone before I go to bed, and eat, and it still happens to me.

>

> It is a mystery. Let me know how you go. Sorry I can't be of more

> help.

>

> Nicola